Radagastimus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 LOL which is why i never use sarcasm on the interwebs. I can never seem to tell....but its probably just me Does anyone know how many subscribers the game has now? Itll be interesting to see where that number goes when the hardcore MMOers jump ship in a few months. While they need to fix this issue to make the game not look like a failure since it was advertised as amazing (aka compete with WoW), they might have enough casuals/Star Wars fans to still cut profit without fixing the issue.... Dont know numbers but from server loads i suspect it goes pretty well. Hardcore MMOers are not really the part to be concerned since they will eventually go back to WOW anyways since they are best in there and find out new games having people that can play better. Much the same as why people still play Counter Strike or even UT goty edition Since they can feel like god there XD Partially joking here, dont take too seriously but just a bit seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRose Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Dont know numbers but from server loads i suspect it goes pretty well. Hardcore MMOers are not really the part to be concerned since they will eventually go back to WOW anyways since they are best in there and find out new games having people that can play better. Much the same as why people still play Counter Strike or even UT goty edition Since they can feel like god there XD Partially joking here, dont take too seriously but just a bit seriously Nah ofc we are not taking you seriously. You are sending people who are trying to point out a serious flaw so the devs can correct it and make the game better back to wow which has always been very childish. I dont take kids seriously. Edited January 3, 2012 by AlexRose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larlar Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Commenting to rate and bump. Really nice diagram from Alocator, and you are right in the comparison particularly in the left side. This is very much how things seem to work in SWTOR and it is indeed all the words listed at the top: clunky, awkward, lacking in fluidity and disconnected. As to the comparison with WOW, well as others have said, WOW had issues, but it never had problems with gameplay on this scale. I did not play beta but bought WOW on the week of release and its gameplay was perfectly smooth and responsive. I've said it before, and I will say it again, if this game had the sheer responsiveness of WOW, it would potentially rival WOW's sub numbers in the medium term. As it does not, it is almost fatally crippled. Its almost impossible to understate how important smooth gameplay and responsiveness are in these games. Everything flows... or does not flow from that starting point. To get it wrong, is basically catastrophic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allocater Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Version 2 of the Paintbrush Diagram (added instants and chaining ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebular Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Forgot to rate the thread. This needs fixed A.S.A.P.! I made a Paintbrush Diagram to visualize the issue Indeed! Version 2 of the Paintbrush Diagram (added instants and chaining ) Indubitably! Edited January 3, 2012 by Zebular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themacr Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Just had to post in this great topic! Especialy in warzones this issue is verry frustrating and pretty much unplayable. I'm a healer and both in PVP and PVE the delayed casting on for instance shield ability's or interrupts/stuns has cost me wipes and deaths several times a day. It's a shame as this REALY is a great game. Not only the story but I realy like the warzones, I realy like the flashpoints and can't wait to try out the opperations. However, if we keep dying/wiping because abilities just dont fire in time the funn is going out of it realy fast. This issue has got me rolling my 1st alt as it's not that big of an issue for me in 1 person PVE content (i dont mind dying alone basicly). But there are 4 classes on empire side... 4 class story's to keep me entertained... after that... well... this issue realy needs to be fixed for me to continue enjoying this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larlar Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Version 2 of the Paintbrush Diagram (added instants and chaining ) ROFL... at the picture at bottom. The comparison I was thinking in my head was: Taking control of our character in SWTOR: versus How it should feel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn5NcQI4PZE Edited January 3, 2012 by Larlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerkat Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Warhammer Online is suffering from the same issues and they didn't fixed it since 2008. Same devs, same bugs. And to be honest SWTOR is preety much Warhammer Online with Star Wars IP. Glitched animations, weird character poses, completely unresponsive abilities. Deja vu. The WAR devs were pulled into BW long after the game started its development. So not all the blame can be pushed onto them. But knowing the company that rules them all that will be done. Because the company culture doesn't seem to account for personal responsibility. Nor does it seem to encourage logical solutions. WAR had the best PvP experience ever even with the bugged out mechanics. It had potential. But instead of trying again, everyone just washed their hands of it. Here is to hoping that people care enough about this game not to do the same to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xianpu Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Version 2 of the Paintbrush Diagram (added instants and chaining ) lol! That's great. It's exactly how it feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcjoker Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I 100% support these threads. My Sith War just finished his class questline at lvl 47. If this doesn't get fixed soon I don't see a reason for sticking around much longer at least until they fix it... if they can fix it. I've hated on WoW for quite some time and to a lesser extent Blizzard (for ruining WoW). Hate on them as I may, at least WoW never had this issue. If they spent even 1% of their voice acting budget on this issue it would never have been an issue at launch. It's silly because, no amount of voice acting will ever make up for their neglect on this issue if they fail to fix it soon. For those of you who think this is a minor issue - I merely need to point to how loud the forum community has been to this single issue to show you that you are in the vocal minority (4 combined threads in excess of some 500 pages of replies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumpiduke Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 This is currently the ONLY issue that I have with the game at the moment. I can handle the other bugs, the restrictive UI, the lack of world PvP, etc....but this? THIS is game breaking If this issue is fixed expeditiously, I will be a happy customer for months. Otherwise, it's on to the next best thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softlyz Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Agreed, clip it and make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jylian Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As someone previously posted. The people that say that it's fine/they don't have any issues/they don't notice anything are either, SWTOR White Knights/Trolls, or just people who are just very bad at video games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebaron Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 The responsiveness is a serious issue. It just doesn't feel fluid. Like when I smash around the time I get knocked back, my cooldown goes off but I do no damage because I got knocked back during the animation portion of my instant cast spell. Don't know if it is related, but I charge the wrong target constantly. I should do some more experimenting to see if I can make it more consistent and find the problem, but I charge a target I am not targeting all the time in this game. Annoying and potentially can cause some wipes in Flashpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltuvion Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Bumping this thread, because this is the primary problem with this game currently, and what will prevent it from achieving lasting greatness. It wasn't fixed in WAR; this game will suffer the same fate as WAR, albeit to a lesser degree, if this isn't fixed. And fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcore Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Version 2 of the Paintbrush Diagram (added instants and chaining ) That is nice, I will add to OP later. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiusha Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I agree with this. Trooper is even more broken than all from this point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halacs Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Version 2 of the Paintbrush Diagram (added instants and chaining ) Heh, I like that. Its anice breakdown with a little "lol" in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metascension Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Definitely noticing these issues as well. As a Sith Juggernaut tank, it's extremely frustrating when I have to hit a key 3-6 times just to get an ability to go off (particularly "status-triggered" abilities like Retaliation and Pommel Strike). I've also notice a similar problem happening with Ravage, where my character will start the animation, but the actual ability hasn't been triggered -- so I'm stuck in the long Ravage animation, but not doing any damage. I think the responsiveness problem and the lack of a combat log are both dire issues for this game, and they're making combat much less enjoyable. If it weren't for the story elements keeping my attention, I'd be reconsidering my subscription already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mertissielle Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm not a huge fan of official forums generally and tend to shy away from posting on them too often. This thread, however, I felt was certainly worthy of a post (my first on swtor.com, in fact) and five stars because I agree with the OP that this is a (the?) fundamental issue that needs to be addressed to ensure the long-term success of this game. I won't go into my "gaming credentials" or anything - in MMO terms I guess I'm the upper end of average, nothing more. At heart I'm a raider, a theorycrafter, a lover of min/maxing and this game just needs a few tweaks (not saying they wouldn't be large technological undertakings, I don't know and don't mean to belittle any effort that would be needed) to make it perfect. Of all the things that need to be added (combat log, etc) to give SW:TOR a sustainable endgame, I genuinely believe this is the highest priority. Ultimately in a competitive environment, be it PvP or PvE races to boss kills, playability has to trump visual flair. I'll give a specific example. I'm currently playing a Sith Marauder (level 30) and one of the skills I was most excited about was an off-GCD strike that could proc whenever I avoided damage. It sounded like a cool way to add a variable to my rotation while soloing. Thing is, it more often than not won't allow me to cast it until the end of a GCD, making it a net DPS loss rather than the gain it should be. It went from hotkey 3, to 6, to Shift+E... it's just unusable, which is a shame. Occasionally it will let me use it mid-GCD but typically only when using my spammable rage-builder which has a short and unfancy animation attached to it. I'm sure all of what I've said has been said already many times (I'll be honest, I've not read all four threads) but it moved me enough to say something and to rate. I really, genuinely, want SW:TOR to succeed - I want to be able to play its endgame instead of WoW's and to give the same amount of thought into min/maxing and raiding at the highest we can. Right now it just feels a bit messy to be able to perform anything that requires precision - and bosses that require precision are the bosses that keep people raiding, frankly. They're the ones people practice for and read up on and start community discussions about and race to kill first, etc. If every boss in WoW had as wide a margin for error as, say, Lootship, people wouldn't take it nearly as seriously. And if you want to maintain subs past all the awesome story content, people taking endgame seriously is a must. Sorry for the rambling post. Seems I had more to say on the subject than I initially thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordgracy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 No but your comment sure is. This game reacts no different than games like LoTRO and others. If you like WoW, which btw is a dumbed down version of most combat systems, then too bad. This isn't WoW and I personally do not have problems with the combat system. So its ok that its clunky and not 100% responsive. Awesome. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simsoon Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hello , Just log in to the site and unsubb the game. Then if thay have fixed it when your time is over you can go in and pay again. I dont know yet if you will have a question why you unsubb but if we are we can write in "Ability Delay" in the field why we quit. That will hopefully speed some things up or give us an post when thay think thay can fix this of if thay cant fix this. In the same time we can give them a hint before and dont just quit and unsubb same day. // Simson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenvirtues Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) As someone previously posted. The people that say that it's fine/they don't have any issues/they don't notice anything are either, SWTOR White Knights/Trolls, or just people who are just very bad at video games. Im so sick of seeing this kind of post and its extremely insulting! I completely support this thread and this issue because it effects all of us one way or another, but to call me a bad player because I dont really experience a problem with delay, but do have a problem with getting no response at all...I'm not saying I NEVER have any lag or delay, but its extremely minimal and I am able to fire off the next ability as soon as my GCD is up 98% of the time...Stop calling all of us bad players...Not all of us are... Now,not getting a response at all happens to me quite often though and its extremely annoying...Nothing worse then watching the action button look as if you casted it, but in reality, nothing happens EDIT: Just to get it across, delay is not my problem, NO RESPONSE AT ALL is mine! Edited January 3, 2012 by fallenvirtues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radagastimus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Nah ofc we are not taking you seriously. You are sending people who are trying to point out a serious flaw so the devs can correct it and make the game better back to wow which has always been very childish. I dont take kids seriously. I have allready ackownledged this problem and assisted by pointing out in which cases it happens for me but those that will go will go not because game is bad but because they just do better in old games like WOW or CS And i always strive to be childish a bit since it makes mind more joyful and open to new ideas Thanks for compliments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarilr Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 The fluidity is horrible. This is true,but I can and have learned to work around it. It still sucks and is terrible and it should be fixed asap,but... The real big problem is just how broken it can be at times. People have mentioned it before,but there are times when combat just breaks. I've noticed it the most on my Sniper. It is basically a sin to try and queue up an instant while using Ambush or Snipe. Oh, sure your cast will finish and the instant will activate. The problem is what happens next. A good 90% of the time your casted stuff is now broken! GRATS! You'll try to use them and they'll start and just fail. Only way I've seen to really fix it is to hop out of cover and back in, which in pve can mean death,but in pvp means you will die. Either way it is just frustrating especially when most natural cover is broken anyways and won't let you cast,but that is suppose to be fixed in the next patch anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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