Sabbathius
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Posts posted by Sabbathius
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I was Pyro, then went Carolina Parakeet (which I quite like, charge is lovely).
My problem is, I can't stand toe to toe with equally geared, equal level pure DPS classes. I have fewer defenses, and in most cases fewer CC than they do.
As I explained, standing toe to toe with Anni Marauder that stacks massive bleeds on you, or Carnage Mara with his 100% armor reduction is suicide. And I can't shake them, because they have far more mobility than I do. Jugger, same thing, many defenses, comparable damage, more CC.
Unless I outgear them, or many of their abilities are on cooldown, I just can't stand toe to toe with them.
I have to add - it's not a catastrophic problem. It's not like they drop me and walk off with 50% health. No, it's usually a close cut thing. But for the most part, they end up winning if they have their cooldowns up.
Oh, and going behind them never works, due to autofacing in PvP. A buddy of mine actually increased his ability queue threshold up to 1 second, and whenever someone circle-strafes him the autoface just completely negates that - it keeps tracking the strafing person. He's Merc, by the way. He just stands his ground and craps rockets.
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How did we go from kiting melee to tips on how to kill healers?
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27/14/0 is great too.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rsrokrskbZhGMMk.1
Probably the less bursty of all hybrid darkness builds, but really good sustain, you'll never run out of force.
Yeah, I think it's a real toss up when it comes to damage. The Madness hybrid gets 45% chance to do another Shock with -50% damage, but Deception hybrid makes Shocks a whole lot cheaper with Trash, which you spam anyway, so you can cast way more of them.
The major pull from Madness, for me at least, comes from instant Whirlwind. I cannot overstate how ludicrously powerful it can be in the right situation. Turning a 2v2 into a 2v1, or forcing an enemy to pop their trinket one second into the fight is huge. Then again, Whirlwind gives them silly amount of resolve, so it's a tradeoff.
Dang man, you've given me a lot to think about...
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See, I too just assumed I can just stand toe to toe with people if I can't kite. You know, heavy armor, shielding, rawr and all that. But considering the kinds of debuffs and defensive CDs other guys have? Just doesn't seem to work.
Yeah, making Marauder's Cloak of Pain fall off is nice, I usually try to use the stun for that, Carbonize is way too short (what is it, 2.5 sec? laughable), but the problem I have with Maras is their defensive CDs.
Without Cloak of Pain (hits you back and reduces damage 20%, lasts up to 30 seconds as long as he gets hit at least once every 6 seconds), he still has Force Camo (which he can use to interrupt Unload for example) and when push comes to shove, Undying Rage for 5 seconds of virtually complete invulnerability. There's also Obfuscate, reduces accuracy 90%, though I believe it doesn't affect our Tech, only weapon shots. And all warriors have Saber Ward too. What is Static Shield compared to that? Peanuts.
It's same story with Jugger. Saber Ward, Endure Pain, Invincible (if they spec for it). Plus the CC - knockback/knockdown, force choke (non-channeled if Immortal), stun (again if Immortal), etc., etc. Our defenses don't measure up, and our offense is comparable.
Sins? Actually I have easier time with Sins for some reason. They still hurt though, high level ones with out-of-stealth Spike knockdown and pull and sprint and slow and the rest are annoying beyond words. And again, Force Cloak - 3-5 seconds of 100% tech invulnerability. Deflection as 2 min CD. Etc. They have more defenses than we do, at least cooldown-wise.
I'm ignoring Ops since they're getting a big fat nerf next patch.
The more I think about it, the more I realize I can't really stand toe to toe with many other classes. Their defense is usually superior, and offense is at least comparable. Depends on spec, of course.
Seems to me the PT is missing a defensive CD or ability. Or maybe one more CC - a knockdown like Spike or Force Push might be nice.
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OK, so recently I've been PvPing a bit more on my PT after a while spent leveling alts, and I'm finding it very hard to kite people now, as more and more start to figure out how to play their class.
One example is a Marauder. They jump on top of me and apply a 12 second 50% snare as they land. From there on, I have virtually zero chance to shake him. And without Static Shield up, also zero chance to survive the kind of damage he can deal. Depending on spec he will have high bleeds (Anni), uninterruptible Ravage that also roots and 100% armor penetration (Carnage) or two charges and huge smash damage (Rage). He has no attacks I can interrupt, and in a clutch he can pop a 2min CD to instantly generate 30 fury and use that on Predation, increasing movement speed 50-80% for 10 seconds. In which time he'll likely build another fury stack, and just use Predation again.
In other words, when a semi-competent Marauder gets on top of my PT, unless I get help, I die. There's nothing I can interrupt, and his damage is higher than mine, and armor doesn't seem to matter much vs bleeds/100% armor debuff/force attacks that are guaranteed crit (smash).
It's somewhat similar with Juggernaut, except now they chain their CC, making kiting rather difficult too. Post-patch it's charge->knockdown->charge->choke with damage in between. Depending on spec they have a stun, a stun on charge, non-channeled choke, etc. Not to mention an AoE slow that they can spam free with just 7 points into Immortal tree - no cost, no CD.
Assassins so far have been easiest for me, but even they are becoming a problem. Post-patch I've had quite a few use Darkness (tank) spec with Wither (15 sec AoE 30% slow, 7.5 sec CD), coupled with Spike (2 sec KD, 20-30 sec CD, denerates almost no resolve), Force Slow and Force Speed and pull, there's no shaking them. And obviously they also have all the other goodies (ranged stun, knockback, possibly instant Whirlwind if hybrid).
Bottom line, coming back to Powertech and facing decent opponents I suddenly get a naked-on-stage feeling. Besides the stun on 1 min CD, I have nothing. Our 50% slow is usually matched by theirs - stalemate. But most of them have some kind of gap-closer, and we have no speed boost. So far I've been using Jet Jump to quickly escape, but again, Rage spec (or hybrid) Maras and Juggs simply use Impale charge to get right back to me.
Am I missing something here? I used to love my PT in PvP (my highest rated char), but after yesterday I'm really unimpressed with him. And I'm sub-50 in 10-49 WZs by the way, so gear isn't really much of a factor.
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The KBs isn't hard to deal with if you know what you're doing as an Assassin, but the interrupt immune shield is the showstopper. Once they use that, you cannot stop them without using a hard CC. Since both classes possess an equal number of hard CCs (technically we have Spike, but it is very dangerous to use such a short stun in PvP due to resolve) you can assume they'll just get canceled out.
Well yeah, technically there's CC. But usually they blow the shield only after you blew most/all CC or their resolve bar is getting close to full. With heavy armor they have quite a bit of leeway there.
It's the same with snipers, actually. People just say "don't let them freecast". Umm, yeah...20 second duration Entrench, in cover. They are immune to BOTH CC and any interrupts. Cooldown? 60 seconds. So, statistically, they are immune to all CC and all interrupts 33% of the time. Good luck "not letting them freecast". Your only option is LOS, which is often not an option unless you're willing to walk away from an objective, or die, or burn them down. If you try for the burn, between Deterrence and Shield Probe and so on, plus all the CC they have (stun, blind, knockback with auto root, ranged root), they can easily tank you.
All too often, when I see "I have no problem with X" posts, it's usually from someone who's been 50 and killing level 20s. Or killing 50s who don't know their class very well yet. Wait until you meet someone who takes full advantage of their class - like a Sorc or Merc who actually have Purge and Cure hotkeyed, and know when to use it, and it's a whole other ball game.
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You do have to outplay them, but keep in mind you're melee as well to a degree... We have a couple stuns, just have to outdance them while attacking.
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Hmmm..
Thing is, Mara has a root on Deadly Throw if Carnage, second charge on 15 sec CD if Rage, or 10.5 sec CD charge that can be used point-blank AND a slow on Rupture (bleed DOT) if Annihilation. And that's just the top of the iceberg, on top of the 12 second 50% no CD slow I mentioned. We do have a stun, but say he trinkets that. That's pretty much it. Carbonize is what, 2.5 sec? You won't make it out of 10m range, and even if you do they just charge again.
Borderline impossible to shake them, unless they're asleep or lagging. And their DPS isn't exactly small potatoes. A Carnage spec one with Gore (100% armor reduction) and root on Ravage will slice you up real quick.
A Sin has way more CC - Spike knockdown (usually from stealth), stun identical to ours. Then an incapacitate or grapple-like pull or whatever, depending on spec. Sprint, ranged slow, etc.
Again, maybe it's just me. But against a half-decent opponent I can't seem to be able to kite at all. I have to hunker down with Static Barrier and hope I can take him out before he takes me out. And let's face it, most melee classes have way more/better defensive cooldowns than we do.
P.S. I'm just using Mara an an example, Jugg can do just as well if not better now that their knockdown resets charge.
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Mercs/Commandos are only strong if you leave them free to free cast on you. If you just put 1 melee class or anyone with an interrupt, they're useless.
You need to fight some half-decent ones, not absolute noobs.
On my Merc, I put 11 points into healing tree. Yes, I lose Heatseeker, but it's on 15 sec CD and not really a big deal with Tracer hitting for as much as it does.
Guess what that 11th point does? While Static Shield is up, I am immune to interrupts. Get in my face, I will knock you back. Get in my face again, I will knock you back again. Do it again, I will stun you. And when you FINALLY get on top of me, I'll just pop Static Shield and keep freecasting at you while you're uselessly blowing your interrupts and laugh.
The only way to beat a half-decent Merc is not to fight one.
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You can move very well, great long-mid range attacks, which allow you to kite melee around... sustain and do a lot of burst damage.
This might be the wrong place to ask this, but how do you kite melee as Powertech? In my experience, once they get on top of you (and all melee have either charge or stealth), they stay there unless they're just horrible players. All melees have slows identical to ours or stronger. Mara has 12 sec no CD 50% slow. Jugg has a (talented) free no CD AoE 50% slow. Sins have 50% slow for 6 seconds every 12 seconds, but they also have sprint. Etc., etc.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel rather defenseless as Pyrotech against melee lately.
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Roll a BH and at level 10 choose Merc. Watch as you deal 250k damage from 30m away while wearing HEAVY armor with skills that lower the damage you take by a %.
Or he can do this when he gets to 50:
Seriously though, of course it gets better later on as you get more and more tools. Just the other day someone on Merc forums was saying "get to 40, get full PvP set, it gets good". Well, duh? Show me a class that DOESN'T get good when you have most of your tools and fantastic gear for your level to boot?
The class has problems. Just like every class in the game does. In some cases it's small buffs/tweaks that are needed. In some, complete class overhaul (Sorcerers, their force pool makes them obscenely easy to play and Mercs with Tracer spam).
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to encourage folks to 'be a man' and stick it out.
Can we just be honest with each other for a minute, you and I?
Sometimes you get a team of morons. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. I don't mean noobs. I mean TOTAL FRIGGIN' MORONS.
There's no force, in heaven or in hell, that would make me stay for 15 mins in a match with these people. Even if quitting a match resulted in my character being deleted, I've seen people so stupid that I would have left anyway.
I think that Bioware should implement a debuff on anyone that quits mid match (for any reason OTHER than a disconect). Perahaps a 50% debuff to all skills/valor awards/legand points for 10 mins.Sure. Make it 100% debuff for 10 hrs. I'll still quit and play my alt. I have 8 alts. Means I can quit a match 8 times a day.
Or better yet? I'll just go semi-AFK! Yay! Chat with the guild, do some crafting. Is that better? Does that make you happy? Bioware already said AFKing as long as you're not actually leaving the computer, not participating in fighting is A-OK.
Any input?Yes. Go away.
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Huttball with a Marauder.
I have the ball, I am about to score. Knockback, knockback, knockback,knockback, knockback/down. I am down face-first in the acid pool, still clutching the ball with a really stupid "*** just happen?!" look on my face. And the funny part? MY RESOLVE WASN'T EVEN MAXED!
In some of those knockbacks, I didn't even properly land before being knocked back even further, I was still landing from t he previous one. Which I think helped increase the range. It wasn't even synchronized, which just makes it worse.
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Totally agree.
Not necessarily with the points OP is making - let's face it, adding a 3rd faction is not something they can just do quickly on a whim. But SOMETHING needs to be done before we lose all of the Republic. On my server, after Ilum disaster, a whole lot of Republics rerolled Empire. And they SUCK HORRIBLY in 1-49 WZs, and we Empire players are stuck with them. Please lure them back to Republic somehow.
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Implement a Deserter buff so that if someone drops a warzone they have to wait 30 mins before they can Requeue (this will make all the leavers just leaving trying to get a win they probably dont deserve stay or take atleast 2 hours to get their non deserved wins)
Also Increase Sorc Damage to make it on par with high armor mercs. Or lower everyone elses resists and take away all shields....
STOP.
Just friggin' STOP with this NONSENSE.
Do you want a deserter debuff? Really? Do you KNOW what will happen?
PEOPLE WILL AFK.
That is ALL that Deserter debuff will accomplish.
I will give you an example that is exactly 45 mins old. I queue into a WZ. I get a team with 4 level 10-13s. Meaning by the time the enemy is capping the flag, they're just slowboating to where the fight used to be 5 minutes ago. And 2 AFKs, one of them level 49 Merc, which I find hilarious - he could rip his way through most of them with ease. In 1 min into the match, enemy team had a cap, and then started farming us.
Now, I simply left. No point wasting 15 mins on that.
If YOU have your way, guess what I would have done? Gone AFK! Is that better? Does it make you happier?
And if AFKing becomes bannable, which it NEVER will, and never has, in any MMO, ever. Guess what I would do? Leave, and play an alt.
Bottom line - DESERTER DEBUFF IS A STUPID IDEA! Thank you!
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The only change Bioware needs is to universally nerf the CC of all classes in this game. Almost every AC has access to a stun and a long-term CC, which should not be the case.
Yes, and this would make PvE REALLY fun. Just tank and spank, no CC.
CC is fine, and brings a little tactics to an otherwise very bland combat. What they do need to do is rethink how resolve works and what affects it and by how much. Knockbacks only costing about 200 resolve is stupid, for instance. One time I was punted from near enemy finish line to all the way to the acid pool in the middle without my resolve bar filling up. True story.
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jesus ... time to reroll
I was just saying this last night. I'm on my alt on Tatooine, and out of 72 people on the planet, 36 were Mercs. And zero Powertechs.
The sad part is, I would bet good money that when the nerf comes, Powertechs will suffer as well.
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What worries me about the nerf is how heavy-handed Bioware is being.
What I hated in WoW was how Blizzard always seemed to bring a chainsaw to do the balancing when what was needed was a scalpel. Bioware seems to be doing the exact same thing. Instead of doing a few nerfs, one at a time, and looking at the results, they just do a huge triple-whammy. Which they might end up having to buff later, and then maybe nerf again.
Also they're repeating most of Blizzard's early mistakes. Change to Dark Charge for Assassins, for example. The amount of healing isn't affected by your gear or your level, only the skill level. In other words, at 50 that healing stops scaling. And after 2-3 gear tiers get added, that heal will be absolutely meaningless. It'll have to be buffed, and made to scale instead of being static. Which is something that should have been done in the first place. It'll just take more work later, and it WILL need work, it's obvious.
Overall, I'm not too happy. They seem to be repeating all the rookie mistakes with pathological zeal.
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The assassins need some serious attention.
Every class needs some serious attention, to be honest. Whether it's buffs, nerfs or a complete teardown job depends on the class.
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For me its 2r-v8. Im not kidding. When it is geared the heals are amazing. I was able to solo alot of +2 heroics (my level) and I had zero down time on quest. Never really dropped below 60% or so health. Also had no issue soloing champions around as well.
I'm doing exact same thing. However, since he does virtually zero DPS, it is significantly slower. I just did a planet on my Sin this morning, took nearly 4.5 hrs. Then did the same on my Mara using Quinn, and finished in 2.5 hrs. Mara does do quite a bit more DPS, but Quinn (healer companion) also does DPS when he's not healing.
It's really kinda stupid Sins get their healer so late. The whole class was obviously designed by someone with a Sorcerer *****.
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Cloak of Pain is good enough. Saber Ward doesn't need a buff 50%/25% reduction is plenty.
Quick question on Cloak of Pain, while we're on the subject. I find players make it fall off quite often. As in, they don't hit me for 6 seconds while I'm CCd, and it goes bye-bye.
Saber Ward is 3 min CD. Which is an ETERNITY in PvP.
And what do you do when BOTH of those are on cooldown? Which is quite often, I'm sorry to say? Run around in Medium armor and hope to god nobody stares at you too hard or you'll burst into flames and die?
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Powertechs have grapple.
Not a knockback. They also have Jet Jump charge deep in tank tree. They also have flamethrowers.
Marauders have jump.Still not a knockback. They have two, if they go Rage. And if they go Anni they can do it point-blank every 10.5 seconds.
Operatives have nothing at all.Except insane burst, stealth, same armor as a Marauder and 3x their CC. Cry me a river. What is happening to Operatives on test realms is ENTIRELY of their own doing. If Operatives didn't run around like morons stacking buffs and butchering people, maybe BW wouldn't have had to take a nerf bat to them quite so hard.
And yes, I do agree the nerfs are a tad much. Either cut damage 20% OR cut duration of knockdown to 1.5 sec. But not both.
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Easiest BY FAR are Sorc and Merc. Out of those two, Sorcerer is an insane force multiplier for his team, while Merc is actually rather useless.
Hardest BY FAR I feel is the Marauder. They have extremely messy rotations and finicky resource management.
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Nearly every class in the game has a knockback ability.
Actually no.
Powertechs, Marauders and Operatives nave no knockbacks. That's 3 classes out of 8 classes is 37%. That's right, boyo. Precisely 37.5% of classes in the game have no knockbacks of any kind.
This is one of the main reasons huttball is a crap game. It is just a game of whose knockback has less delay and who has better latency at the time.That I agree with. But I feel simply removing Huttball from the game would be better than messing around with knockbacks. Everyone I know, especially Empire, absolutely LOATHES Huttball. The whole map is designed as one colossal cheese.
Though doubling the amount of resolve knockbacks result in would be a step in the right direction.
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You do realize "a few million" doesn't cut it for battleships?
You just made typical noob mistakes everyone and his mother warns you about.
Battleships were a mistake, yes.
But let's be honest for a second here. A couple of months worth of training is what, 2-3 mil SP? That's nothing. That's not enough for decent drone skills FFS!
Now, to continue the honesty. When these guys, with 2-3 mil SP each, run into ONE guy who's been playing for a while. As in 50+ mil. What's going to happen to them? I don't care how skilled these guys are as PLAYERS. Their CHARACTERS cannot put up a fight. EVE is the only MMO I know of where player skill is below pretty much everything, including ship fittings.
Let me give you an example. Me, with 50 mil SP. You, with 500 SP. You are FANTASTIC player, I mean OMG. You walk into a field, and cows tip themselves over in an 8 mile radius you're so awesome! We each grab a Rifter, best fittings money can buy (and your character's nonexistent skills can fit, hehe). As long as I have enough skill to mouse over you, click target and then mouse over my active modules and click them each once, you will die a horrible fiery death.
That's EVE PvP in a nutshell. Everything > player skill. As much as I love that game, I absolutely loathe the way PvP is done in it.
Now, imagine EVE where there ARE no character skills! Where fittings you can put in are only controlled by the hull, where a total noob is as effective with a weapon system as someone who spent 6 months maxing it, where combat is AIM based and defenses are evasion/movement based. If EVE was like that, I'd sink my teeth into it and never leave. But as it is now? Especially with recent space barbies and NEX? Stay far away.
Kiting Help
in Vanguard / Powertech
Posted · Edited by Sabbathius
Yah, I've been doing that. Though since you can only charge an enemy, it doesn't often make your situation better. And many enemies I am fighting have either charge (Mara, Jugg) or pull (Sins), it doesn't really solve anything. They will follow me or pull me back where they want me. So in most cases it only makes it worse.
Doesn't work - the other guy can do the exact same thing. Stalemate.
Yah, but really so does any other similar CC. Maras and Juggs have an AoE incapacitate with more than twice the duration, on cooldown 15 seconds longer. Ops and Snipers have AoE blind with more than three times duration, again with cooldown just 15 sec longer. The rest have knockbacks, which in Huttball and Voidstar are arguably even more useful.
Seriously, ever since I stopped and took a cold hard look at my Powertech, all I'm seeing is weaknesses all over the place. Class is definitely missing something. It needs either a second defensive CD, like other tanks have, or more CC, or a mobility boost.
By the way, someone recommended Prototype spec because of Hydraulic Override - 8 second immunity to movement and physics effects and 30% speed boost. I wonder if it stacks with Pneumatic Boots? This might solve my problem, with a mere 30 sec CD.
But from what I hear, Prototype isn't very good?