APAC Shae Vizla Server will kill Satele Shan Server

[TziganeNZ]

As an APAC player, I don't give a monkey's about transferring credits (they are easy enough to make in-game), but I would like to be able to transfer my legacy and its QoL unlocks.

Although - I guess it's good to have something to work towards...

[Shayddow]

Quote

take off your tinfoil hat and point me to a player that has obtained a significant advantage by spending money that cannot be easily done with in game credits.

Well, one thing is already apparent on the new server. Namely, the "start at 80" that you can get by paying Real Life money to have your character instantly 80. If you don't know, you get this with Cartel coins. Which cost RL $. 

This leads to you being able to get MORE credits for every mission starting on Tython, Korriban, etc, etc, etc.

This is pay-to-win. It is literally credits for cash. And its being done by the game, NOT the "gamer.easy" crowd. Who thankfully doesn't seem to be over here, yet.

[Whykara]

So, what's the sitch? Satele Shan dead already?

[TrixxieTriss]

32 minutes ago, Whykara said:

So, what's the sitch? Satele Shan dead already?

No 

[Whykara]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

No 

Figures, almost none of the alarmist prophecies have come true so far.

[Darkestmonty]

25 minutes ago, Whykara said:

Figures, almost none of the alarmist prophecies have come true so far.

Satele Shan during the second and third quarters can have less than 100 people on Empire Fleet during prime time East Coast on the weekend and it only drops from there. That's all of fleet. Meanwhile at the same time Star Forge can have 250-300 people on fleet.

Why only use Empire Fleet to check population numbers? Because it is the one place on all servers that consistently has the highest population of any world or faction.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

19 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

Satele Shan during the second and third quarters can have less than 100 people on Empire Fleet during prime time East Coast on the weekend and it only drops from there. That's all of fleet. Meanwhile at the same time Star Forge can have 250-300 people on fleet.

Why only use Empire Fleet to check population numbers? Because it is the one place on all servers that consistently has the highest population of any world or faction.

How many instances are you looking at. Because SF Imp fleet in primetime usually has multiple instances of 250-300 people. Is it possible that SS has multiple instances too 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Darkestmonty]

15 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

How many instances are you looking at. Because SF Imp fleet in primetime usually has multiple instances of 250-300 people. Is it possible that SS has multiple instances too 🤷🏻‍♀️

I take population counts in all instances of fleet.

So total population count for SS during prime time on the weekends can be less than 100 people while total population count for Star Forge can be 2-3 times that.

[TrixxieTriss]

8 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

I take population counts in all instances of fleet.

So total population count for SS during prime time on the weekends can be less than 100 people while total population count for Star Forge can be 2-3 times that.

If that’s true, it sounds like Star Forge is also experiencing a population drop too 🤷🏻‍♀️.

Im assuming you are also comparing numbers before Shae Vizla actually opened? 

[Djalu]

First post here on entirely new account, after a 10 year Hiatus from game and my original account disappearing into the ( digital Void with some of my socks ).

Happy and ticked off at same time with new APAC server. Happy it is back but ticked off it was not widely published else I would not of waisted last 2 months on the SF server rebuilding a character and legacy base, lucky for me though only 2 months so no major loss.

I will stay a sub player while I have an APAC server but lord if you merge it again like you did last time ( the reason I left then ) then I will leave again and there will be no coming back for a look see. As many can attest to, endgame and even some standard game content is all but unplayable with horrid ping/lag. There was even 1 comment here that said they did not want to move to a more populated server that had large Ping but seemed happy for us to have to endure it.

Since being back and slowly uncovering all the game has to offer after 10 years I can well understand the frustration of players from my region who have stuck out the last 10 years and put a hell of a lot of time and effort and possibly RL dollars into it all. On the other hand I can see how a new servers economy could be destroyed very quickly by allowing full account transfers, or trying to work out who/what players are from this region or hiding behind VPN's.

I guess at the end of the day it is a wait and see situation as to what the Dev's decide based on player numbers and ROI, like it or not it is a business and they are not doing this out of the goodness of their own heart.

For pretty much the last 30 plus years of MMo's us poor folk from downunder have been little more than an afterhtought IF even that. I hope it pans out and SV stays this time as I am only a returning player due to going through cancer recovery and being mostly housebound with a lot of time on my hands.

Regards

Djalu

42

[Bigfallenstar]

6 hours ago, Shayddow said:

Well, one thing is already apparent on the new server. Namely, the "start at 80" that you can get by paying Real Life money to have your character instantly 80. If you don't know, you get this with Cartel coins. Which cost RL $. 

This leads to you being able to get MORE credits for every mission starting on Tython, Korriban, etc, etc, etc.

This is pay-to-win. It is literally credits for cash. And its being done by the game, NOT the "gamer.easy" crowd. Who thankfully doesn't seem to be over here, yet.

Ok, and? Is there plus 50% increase in damage or a 90% increase in defense that's added once they step into pvp? Because a level boost all the way to 80 and getting more credits for missions isn't pay to win in any form. Because, as much as I hate to agree with people who say this, the content's been done 10x over. There's nothing new to it and they just want to add a new toon to their roster without going through the story again.

[Falensawino]

On 11/19/2023 at 4:07 PM, Darkestmonty said:

I'm all for a population merge for SS and SF if the servers can handle it. I say this playing both servers. SS has about 2/3rs the population of SF at best and during the slower seasons for SWTOR that population difference has a much more significant impact on group content.

For the next 3, maybe 4 months SS will have the highest population count then suddenly drop like it does every year.

Can't merge StarForge and SateleShan, it's all about all the inactive accounts that haven't logged in in 3 to 10 years. Satele must be a major account graveyard to not support a merge

 

[AbsolutGrndZero]

19 hours ago, FlatTax said:

OR

P2W transactions should be opposed on principle, and we ought to get beyond arguing over how much advantage-for-money is too much. Any is a problem.

Are you on the Satele Shan server and what is your name of your main if so?   I will next time I play mail you a color crystal (I choose the color, not you) that is a +41 and that I didn't pay a dime of real money for.  As it's a +41, it will be "Best in Slot", yes?  A Again, I didn't have to pay a single dime, heck not even a shiny penny for it.  So where I ask you is the P2W?  Nowhere.  Almost nobody actually cares about the stats on the Cartel Market crystals, we just use them for outfitter.   Does my Purple+41 lightsber do more damage than your red one?   Oh, totally.  Just by being purple, this lightsaber does 10x more damage than a red one!

Sarcasm about purple vs. red, I absolutely DO oppose P2W transactions on principle, and this game does not have them. At all. End of story.   All lightsaber crystals now (except "archived" crafted ones) are +41 now.  So again, if you want a crystal that is totally free to both me and you (well, it will cost me mats and credits to craft if for you, but no real money) it will be whatever color is cheapest to send you with the new tax.  If you care about color, THEN you go to the Cartel Market, and that will not in any way make that transaction a P2W transaction.

Edited November 25, 2023 by AbsolutGrndZero

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, Falensawino said:

Can't merge StarForge and SateleShan, it's all about all the inactive accounts that haven't logged in in 3 to 10 years. Satele must be a major account graveyard to not support a merge

 

How do you know they cant merge? I’ve not seen them say this anywhere as a reason. 

[xordevoreaux]

11 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

How do you know they cant merge? I’ve not seen them say this anywhere as a reason. 

Here I must agree with you.

I had a very underpowered Microsoft Access database, not even set up on a SQL server, containing 17 to 19 million rows of data in a single table, representing  all punch card clock-in clock-out information for hundreds of thousands of contract workers across 11 time zones for a single year.

I'll hazard that this game has not, throughout its existence, seen 17 million accounts created. People are free to argue the likelihood of that as they will, but that's my gut on that.

So.

 I strongly doubt however many tuples of data are sitting in a database table somewhere representing the combined population of 2 servers for their entire existence is much of a barrier for any run-of-the-mill SQL server to process during a merge.

Edited November 26, 2023 by xordevoreaux

[Shayddow]

well, I'd wager that many "inactive" people on Shan are playing on other servers.

Out of the over 100 characters I have account wide, I have the most of them on Shan (which was the result of the server merger years ago). However, most of them are level 75, because this was the cap when they were last played. Since conquest was made 100,000 instead of 50,000 required, I have limited amount of time to play. (I also still work full time - that's what pays for my account 😉

 

[saikar]

Interesting discussion. I don't post much - but for any Broadsword decision makers who may be following this thread -

I have played since the APAC launch, started on Dalborra, and have just naturally allowed my characters to follow all the server merges and as a consequence have ended up on Satele Shan. So your base APAC user base, who still play, or maybe want to return and play, and like me have not actively moved to any other server - will be in the same situation. I have no feel for the intertia vs proactively moved APAC player numbers, but should be easy for you to check. Knowing human nature as I do, I suspect way more APAC accounts on SS than SF.

I played a lot until KotFE/KotET, the expansions that basically killed my enjoyment of the game, but came back every so often to check things out and came back in earnest for each of the Galactic Seasons. I mostly stayed a subscriber the whole time because I love the SWTOR project and wanted to support it. The idea of being able to play on a regional server with lower ping times and a player base dedicated to my time zone is extremely exciting.

That said, I have a lot of characters in the 50-80 range and years and years of stuff accumulated in my legacy bank (yes including an amount of credits that with the 15 mil limit per toon, I physically wouldn't be able to move across). Even if there were no credit limit, it would still be a massive logistical pain in the ass to utilise the current character transfer system to move across.

What I would love to see is a way to "re-server". Basically a way to self-elect a new home server. Technically this should be possible since it happened during the server merges, but I would guess for economy reasons it has never been offered as a service. I think this is what a lot of APAC players would want in order to move to Shae Visla.

If this doesn't happen, I may move a couple of "fun/levelling" toons over to SV just to check it out, but SS will definitely remain my home.

[Suzsi]

I can't transfer my characters to SV since I only just resubbed. Looking forward to replaying some characters on the new server after catching up my SS characters though. Dabbling in some pvp without a terrible ping could be fun again at some point (I expect it to take me a while).

[fatsi]

On 11/25/2023 at 3:22 PM, Falensawino said:

Can't merge StarForge and SateleShan, it's all about all the inactive accounts that haven't logged in in 3 to 10 years. Satele must be a major account graveyard to not support a merge

 

That is probably the case, yes. Satele Shan was merged from PvE servers, and raiders left the game by the thousands during KotFE and KotET, and things didn't go so well on the side of endgame from then on, not that it ever did before. Raiders tend to pay a sub for a month or two, and return to play when a new ops content comes up, and leave once they are done for, say, 2 years in the current circumstances? I don't know. Until new ops content comes, which is expected to come every from 2 years to never ever again in the current state of the game.

[FrontLineFodder]

It would be an interesting decision to "Archive" old account data, where a player would need to re-activate the account in order to play those characters again.

Archive all FTP/Preferred accounts with no login activity for 3 years, then Merge SS and SF.

The Re-activation process would be treated like a character transfer, the first character to be re-activated would trigger the legacy for that old server into the new, force a rename of any character names that have since been taken.

This would take all those old accounts out of the active servers.

(This is assuming this is not already in place and we don't realise it)

Edited February 19 by FrontLineFodder
Archive specifically FTP/Pref

[Traceguy]

I agree 100%. Satele Shan's numbers have already been dropping drastically. A lot of my friends on the SS server were APAC players. Even some mega guilds such as Temasek are moving over to SV, leaving SS to hang dry.

If Broadsword isn't going to merge the NA servers, they need to invent and sell legacy server transfers, or merge group finder queues cross-server. I shouldn't have to queue for 6+ hours to get 1 GSF match.

 

  

On 11/24/2023 at 1:00 PM, Jdast said:

I can't speak to how this will impact Satele Shan for the simple reason I don't have the numbers. With that said, if they are going to offer discounted transfer fees to Shae Vizla (which I support), they should offer a similar discounted transfer from Satele Shan to Star Forge.

Single character server transfers leave behind so much, it's an absolute nightmare of a process. Even if server transfers were discounted at 90%, I would refuse to move all 35+ of my toons from SS to SF. I moved 1 character to SF already, and I am completely dissatisfied with the process

 

Edited February 19 by Traceguy

[Saeten]

Ah, the ever terrible thinking that the community even knows the populations and activity of servers beyond their own play time and experience.

First and foremost, there is no need to merger SS and SF.  Many people play on SS because SF is the worst server for toxicity and general F**kery.

Second, no one wants a mega server and have to compete for objectives, even with tagging, competition in areas is bad on SF as is.

Third, people touting statistics about queues for GSF are an extreme minority. It is not and has never been a hot area of activity except when there is an Galactic Seasons objective.

Fourth, people here touting statistics should be reminded of the quote, "There are lies, damn lies and statistics."  Meaning you can cherry pick anything and spout your percentages but they are generally not accurate and are often misleading.

Lastly, let SS and SF be separate.  Don't try to force your opinion of merging on those that don't want it.  But, consider a cross server queue for certain things.

[Saeten]

On the subject of SV killing SS,  Never gonna happen. SV ping is great for APAC players, but stinkola for US players. SS will always be the home for those players (along with SF).

Also, I'll be transferring 16 of my 75 level 80s to SV from various servers just for the credits and legacy. It's there for Galactic Seasons rewards for fun and playing with my Aussie friends there so they can enjoy that massively tight short ping while I dog it as a US player

[TrixxieTriss]

13 hours ago, Traceguy said:

 

I agree 100%. Satele Shan's numbers have already been dropping drastically. A lot of my friends on the SS server were APAC players. Even some mega guilds such as Temasek are moving over to SV, leaving SS to hang dry

 

But here’s the thing. Most of the APAC players haven’t even moved over to SV yet & they aren’t playing there. 

The reason player numbers are down right now across the whole game is because GS & PvP seasons have finished.

Also there is a lot of APAC player resentment at how the whole server transfer thing is being handled. If you go to other APAC specific social media regarding swtor, you can see how upset a big portion of the community actually is. Most can’t or won’t post here on the forums because “reasons”. But if you are part of the community, you’ll hear many current subscribers are letting their subs expire & won’t renew. Even preferred players are staying away.

The problem is BS are only partially listening to the feedback from APAC community & trying to balance their responses around fresh start players from other regions. So the mood in the APAC community is dejected & feels like BS don’t care if APAC players stay or go.

And to be fair, these aren’t my own words. I’m repeating what I’m reading on social media. Even certain influencers aren’t happy with how things are going for APAC players & they don’t even live in the region. Some influencers are now actively advocating for free transfers for APAC preferred/FTP players too. 

Im just hopping BS haven’t caused lasting harm in the APAC community & can throw them (us) more of a bone on transfers to SV. 

Sadly, this may affect SS population at times when APAC players would be more active on SS. But considering there is such a big time difference between our peak times & the US, it should only affect those US players outside of primetime. 

If BS see a population drop on SS after the APAC transfers & they don’t want to merge the servers, they could offer free transfers to SS players. But I can’t see them doing that until after the APAC transfers actually happen in March sometime. 

Edited February 20 by TrixxieTriss
Spelling

[Darkestmonty]

14 hours ago, Saeten said:

On the subject of SV killing SS,  Never gonna happen. SV ping is great for APAC players, but stinkola for US players. SS will always be the home for those players (along with SF).

Also, I'll be transferring 16 of my 75 level 80s to SV from various servers just for the credits and legacy. It's there for Galactic Seasons rewards for fun and playing with my Aussie friends there so they can enjoy that massively tight short ping while I dog it as a US player

This post is referring to all the Apac players who have to play on the NA servers (or even the EU servers) because their original Apac server was shut down.

If all the Apac players abandoned current servers to play on SV, the servers with lowest populations would feel the impact the most.

This is not about NA located players leaving SS to play an Apac server.

Edited February 20 by Darkestmonty