APAC Shae Vizla Server will kill Satele Shan Server

[Toraak]

37 minutes ago, FlatTax said:

This is instructive.

EA is literally selling best-in-slot gear, and you don't care because it's just a little.

We shouldn't be the Niemöller of unethical business practices.

"When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."

Crystals on the CM are selling the cosmetic of the Color of the crystal. You can craft for FREE a +41 color crystal in game.

 

Your not paying for the stat, but for the color of it.

[MotherCrusher]

20 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Crystals on the CM are selling the cosmetic of the Color of the crystal. You can craft for FREE a +41 color crystal in game.

 

Your not paying for the stat, but for the color of it.

lets not forget that free +41 crystal is literally one of the first things a new artificer can craft.

[xordevoreaux]

1 hour ago, MotherCrusher said:

lets not forget that free +41 crystal is literally one of the first things a new artificer can craft.

A fact which does nothing to invalidate Toraak's point.

[TrixxieTriss]

6 hours ago, FlatTax said:

Microtransactions leak into every core game system: progression, gearing, and crafting. On top of our subscriptions.

If that doesn't register to people here, well, it explains a lot about the state of the industry. @JackieKo, the Emperor will be pleased.

But micro transactions don’t necessarily = pay to win. That is the point we are ALL trying to tell you. Swtor doesn’t have a pay to win system. 

[MotherCrusher]

1 hour ago, xordevoreaux said:

A fact which does nothing to invalidate Toraak's point.

huh? what made you assume i am trying to invalidate their point? i've been arguing against the person they quoted for the last few pages

[FlatTax]

7 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But micro transactions don’t necessarily = pay to win. That is the point we are ALL trying to tell you. Swtor doesn’t have a pay to win system. 

This is where I argue it's a question of kind, and not degree, which is the creeping doom that gets defended here.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

On 11/19/2023 at 3:05 PM, BlackSilverRoar said:

-1 Not Signed & Opposed to any merge - another *cringe* straw man merge thread by west coast Will Smiths (east coasters know the term) so they can keep their names at the expense of East Coasters bc they're as mediocre as their server bc of themselves and the personalities there aren't holding to nicer APAC.  

 

East Coasters general consensus:  Sounds like a YOU problem.

As a central person who has had my names since pre-launch (except for some I lost in the first two merges) I am on the side of the "west coasters" in your example, but go ahead and act like the "general consensus" of East Coasters is the same.  Also, learn what a straw man is. 

Strawman: an intentionally misrepresented proposition  that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

Whether you agree or not, the not wanting to have a name change forced on us is a reason to not want a server merge.  Just because you don't agree, there is no misrepresentation going on, as if there is a server merge, many players will be forced to change some names, especially those of us who have been here for 12+ years.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, FlatTax said:

This is where I argue it's a question of kind, and not degree, which is the creeping doom that gets defended here.

You won’t get me defending micro transactions because I think they aren’t needed for subscribers. For non subscribers, sure have them for those people because they aren’t paying anything to play. 

But micro transactions are 100% different to P2W transactions. And sadly, you keep going on about P2W transaction which aren’t a thing in swtor. So you aren’t helping our position about micro transactions by conflating them as P2W. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DragoslavRadanov]

Game's definitely not pay to win, you can spend as much money as you want, but that doesn't equate to a modicum of skill, which is what will make you win

[eabevella]

14 hours ago, FlatTax said:

Easy example:

Literally anything worth having in the Cash Shop, which functions like another premium currency and launders cash into core game systems. If you want to Aug-out an endgame character, nothing comes close to the efficiency of Cash-to-Credits conversions on the GTN.

It's the thinnest of shell games.

Or:

Crystals are literal BiS gear for direct sale.

Lmao no one cares what crystal you use in endgame. People care about the number and composition the 340 gears you have in endgame.

So, I ask again, where can I spend that delicious USD to buy me some sweet purple 340 gears in Cartel Market?

14 hours ago, Desrao said:

Lmao “Crystals are pay to win” is the funniest thing I’ve heard in awhile.

Just stick with the cc to credits, credits buy augments argument next time bro, I disagree it’s pay to win but at least there was some logic there.

Augments are not going to be the game changing thing you are making it out to be and every response since someone has said point to where this is pay 2 win has gotten progressively more dumb, but at least we are being entertained. The only way you are going to win in the hardest content in this game is by knowing how to play your class and the actual gear (not augments or crystals). And it’s even more true now that they nerfed some ops.

FFS the first boss in R4 is a mechanics check first and foremost with a burn at the end. I can’t even imagine someone thinking that they are going to try to pay their way to the endgame.

do me a favor, take a class you don’t understand how it works, put all gold augments and your best lightsaber crystals and tell me how far you get. 

You *can* buy sale runs to get 340 gears, at least the blue ones by buying multiple HM Guard Dog runs where a semi decent group can easily carry 1 person.

But that is players paying money to other players and Bioware/Boardsowrd takes no commission fees from either party (it's technically against ToS?). It's not even close to what P2W is.

And you're right, the game provides no gear advantage that big you can "win" with the best gear.

If we are talking about true P2W, selling 360 gears and items that give you 10% straight dps/heal/shield boost in CM when the highest gears you can get in game is 340 gears is P2W. Selling barbie clothes and barbie crystals* that give you what? +41 crit aren't.

*Unless you argue that space barbie is the true endgame. Then yes, it's P2W to be on top of the fashion game.

[FlatTax]

7 hours ago, eabevella said:

So, I ask again, where can I spend that delicious USD to buy me some sweet purple 340 gears in Cartel Market?

The definition you propose for P2W would allow so much malevolence it's meaningless.

You fail to see it's a question of kind (yes/no), not degree (too much?).

People defending the sale of Crystals, which are literal best-in-slot gear for cash, shows how effectively EA has groomed us for abuse.

[MotherCrusher]

19 minutes ago, FlatTax said:

The definition you propose for P2W would allow so much malevolence it's meaningless.

You fail to see it's a question of kind (yes/no), not degree (too much?).

People defending the sale of Crystals, which are literal best-in-slot gear for cash, shows how effectively EA has groomed us for abuse.

oh noes, they are selling something you can make in 1 minute yourself on the cartel market, the horror!

[Desrao]

3 hours ago, FlatTax said:

The definition you propose for P2W would allow so much malevolence it's meaningless.

You fail to see it's a question of kind (yes/no), not degree (too much?).

People defending the sale of Crystals, which are literal best-in-slot gear for cash, shows how effectively EA has groomed us for abuse.

OR

you are just wrong. Your incessant whining and rattling the alarm bells over color crystals makes your argument look bad, and has people who are generally against the over reliance on the CM to generate revenue for the game (like me) defending it. You are choosing a particularly stupid hill to die on.

[OlBuzzard]

12 minutes ago, Desrao said:

OR

you are just wrong. Your incessant whining and rattling the alarm bells over color crystals makes your argument look bad, and has people who are generally against the over reliance on the CM to generate revenue for the game (like me) defending it. You are choosing a particularly stupid hill to die on.

yup!!

[OlBuzzard]

 IMO when debating certain issues with some people (such as the misinterpretation and understanding of P2W / SWTOR related items) ... in all probability two products will be needed by the end of the discussion:

Spoiler

** " Preparation H" or "Tucks"
** " Excedrin ...  Extra Strength or Migraine"

It should be noted that the problem will not go away ... these are just to assist in the inevitable side effects of said discussion!!

😉

[OlBuzzard]

11 hours ago, eabevella said:

Lmao no one cares what crystal you use in endgame. People care about the number and composition the 340 gears you have in endgame.

So, I ask again, where can I spend that delicious USD to buy me some sweet purple 340 gears in Cartel Market?

You *can* buy sale runs to get 340 gears, at least the blue ones by buying multiple HM Guard Dog runs where a semi decent group can easily carry 1 person.

But that is players paying money to other players and Bioware/Boardsowrd takes no commission fees from either party (it's technically against ToS?). It's not even close to what P2W is.

And you're right, the game provides no gear advantage that big you can "win" with the best gear.

If we are talking about true P2W, selling 360 gears and items that give you 10% straight dps/heal/shield boost in CM when the highest gears you can get in game is 340 gears is P2W. Selling barbie clothes and barbie crystals* that give you what? +41 crit aren't.

*Unless you argue that space barbie is the true endgame. Then yes, it's P2W to be on top of the fashion game.

[/unworthy emote]

BTW... do they even make 340 purple???  (I really haven't looked).

BTW...  I agree on all points!  I especially like the space barbie end game comment!  Priceless!

[FlatTax]

38 minutes ago, Desrao said:

OR

you are just wrong. Your incessant whining and rattling the alarm bells over color crystals makes your argument look bad, and has people who are generally against the over reliance on the CM to generate revenue for the game (like me) defending it. You are choosing a particularly stupid hill to die on.

OR

P2W transactions should be opposed on principle, and we ought to get beyond arguing over how much advantage-for-money is too much. Any is a problem.

[Desrao]

1 hour ago, FlatTax said:

OR

P2W transactions should be opposed on principle, and we ought to get beyond arguing over how much advantage-for-money is too much. Any is a problem.

Of course. When it appears in the PTS or an upcoming announcement I’m sure we all will fight it. Until then we will continue critiquing real problems that we don’t have to make up and be really childish and hyperbolic about.

[Jdast]

Two or three times a year FlatTax will enter and derail a thread about Pay-to-Win. It happens and will continue to happen as long as Planet Earth circles the Sun. I'm not suggesting that FlatTax is doing anything against the Code of Conduct, but she, he, or non-binary has been writing about "creeping doom" now for years (yes, literally, and those are FlatTax's words, not mine). FlatTax will continue to make the same facile argument about Crystals (🙄) and Augments -- features that have been in game now for years. Has it "creeped" into other facets of the game? No -- and that is empirically and demonstrably provable. Still, I admire FlatTax's perseverance.

At risk of trying to get this thread back on course of original topic...

I agree there should be some allowance to APAC players to transfer characters even legacy with a discount back to Shae Vizla. I say this because many of them migrated to the U.S. based servers when the APAC servers were shut down. 

I can't speak to how this will impact Satele Shan for the simple reason I don't have the numbers. With that said, if they are going to offer discounted transfer fees to Shae Vizla (which I support), they should offer a similar discounted transfer from Satele Shan to Star Forge.

But I acknowledge and respect that some players like a smaller, less populated server. Hey, who am I to judge? As one of the greatest philosophers in centuries, Ru Paul, said: "If they ain't paying your bills, pay them ******* no mind!" 

Hugs Dasty

[Desrao]

I feel like the legacy thing is the main issue, and personally I find it weird that they’ve always been a per server thing. And I also think that it should be an option on character creation on a new server instead of having you pay for a transfer to get the legacy stuff over, it could be just a option “Do you want to start a new legacy on x server? Or do you want to keep you existing legacy?”

I do feel like it’s a pretty messy situation on both ends regarding the new server, because had the intention been “Hey folks we want to launch a few fresh start servers..” then I think it’s pretty obvious what the expectations are, but if it’s supposed to be for folks that are suffering through some ungodly ping and correcting the slight against them all those years ago when they deleted the apac servers then I think those players in the region should get free transfers. 
 

I feel like there’s multiple reasons the server exists so they are stuck in limbo.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Desrao

[Lord_Malganus]

4 minutes ago, Desrao said:

 I think those players in the region should get free transfers. 

 

 

I agree and said the same thing when SV was announced.

[eabevella]

21 minutes ago, Jdast said:

Two or three times a year FlatTax will enter and derail a thread about Pay-to-Win. It happens and will continue to happen as long as Planet Earth circles the Sun. I'm not suggesting that FlatTax is doing anything against the Code of Conduct, but she, he, or non-binary has been writing about "creeping doom" now for years (yes, literally, and those are FlatTax's words, not mine). FlatTax will continue to make the same facile argument about Crystals (🙄) and Augments -- features that have been in game now for years. Has it "creeped" into other facets of the game? No -- and that is empirically and demonstrably provable. Still, I admire FlatTax's perseverance.

At risk of trying to get this thread back on course of original topic...

I agree there should be some allowance to APAC players to transfer characters even legacy with a discount back to Shae Vizla. I say this because many of them migrated to the U.S. based servers when the APAC servers were shut down. 

I can't speak to how this will impact Satele Shan for the simple reason I don't have the numbers. With that said, if they are going to offer discounted transfer fees to Shae Vizla (which I support), they should offer a similar discounted transfer from Satele Shan to Star Forge.

But I acknowledge and respect that some players like a smaller, less populated server. Hey, who am I to judge? As one of the greatest philosophers in centuries, Ru Paul, said: "If they ain't paying your bills, pay them ******* no mind!" 

Hugs Dasty

 

I was typing something really mean to reply FlatTax that'll probably get me another warning but your post saved me so thanks, I can never be as graceful as you.

Transfer discount based on IP or other reliable method to actual APAC players in a limited time is a good idea. I admit I don't know how to do it in real life (technical issues etc.). Starting a whole new legacy/guild is a pain...

[Bigfallenstar]

43 minutes ago, Jdast said:

Two or three times a year FlatTax will enter and derail a thread about Pay-to-Win. It happens and will continue to happen as long as Planet Earth circles the Sun. I'm not suggesting that FlatTax is doing anything against the Code of Conduct, but she, he, or non-binary has been writing about "creeping doom" now for years (yes, literally, and those are FlatTax's words, not mine). FlatTax will continue to make the same facile argument about Crystals (🙄) and Augments -- features that have been in game now for years. Has it "creeped" into other facets of the game? No -- and that is empirically and demonstrably provable. Still, I admire FlatTax's perseverance.

At risk of trying to get this thread back on course of original topic...

I agree there should be some allowance to APAC players to transfer characters even legacy with a discount back to Shae Vizla. I say this because many of them migrated to the U.S. based servers when the APAC servers were shut down. 

I can't speak to how this will impact Satele Shan for the simple reason I don't have the numbers. With that said, if they are going to offer discounted transfer fees to Shae Vizla (which I support), they should offer a similar discounted transfer from Satele Shan to Star Forge.

But I acknowledge and respect that some players like a smaller, less populated server. Hey, who am I to judge? As one of the greatest philosophers in centuries, Ru Paul, said: "If they ain't paying your bills, pay them ******* no mind!" 

Hugs Dasty

So this isn't the first time they've done this? If they were going to put in p2w mechanics into the game, they would have done so years ago. And it would be battlefield 2 all over again. Although... I can imagine the divide it would create in the community with putting endgame gear in the cartel market.

[OlBuzzard]

Hmmm

UNLESS...

P2W actually means pay to WHINE !! (???)

[TrixxieTriss]

57 minutes ago, Desrao said:

but if it’s supposed to be for folks that are suffering through some ungodly ping and correcting the slight against them all those years ago when they deleted the apac servers then I think those players in the region should get free transfers. 

Exactly this 👆