Credit Economy Feedback Thread

[Traceguy]

43 minutes ago, OnLinux said:

This is genius.

As long as a character has at least 10 or 20 credits, travel is possible.

Devs:  Please consider using a percentage as @Enomars has suggested instead of a flat rate.

 

This is a terrible idea. People will hide their credits off shore to avoid these ridiculous communism taxes 

[Crystal_Mind]

• Do the Quick Travel costs seem fair? Do you think this will affect your usage of Quick Travel?
• Are there travel costs that you currently find to be too little or too much? 

I did not test repairs, since a note was posted that durability changes are not currently functional.

Quick Travel as a 'New' Player:
I made a new toon on PTS without unlocking any perks to simulate the casual, "new player" experience. I started on Korriban as a Sith Warrior Juggernaut with no credits. With return travel to the Sith Academy costing 400-620 credits depending on my location (I found a 40 credit swing in pricing just by taking a lift), I prioritized taxi travel, picked up a couple side quests, and sold every spare item drop that came into my inventory.

Ultimately, I only used quicktravel twice on Korriban (usually it would be four times), and arrived at fleet with just over 10,000 credits. Since I'm not actually a new player, I then tracked down a trainer for speeder piloting and bought a cheap speeder. Compared to the early days of the game when I only scraped together enough funds for a speeder on Tatooine, it wasn't too bad an experience. But I'm older now, and less patient, and the experience was like slogging through molasses.

As expensive as quicktravel was on PTS, the cost stood out less than other glaring travel issues

Some thoughts on the overall experience of travel on Korriban follow:

Spoiler

Travel Pain Points: Lack of Direction
Outside of walking or taking a taxi, the game doesn't tell the player about other forms of travel. Unless you go digging through your powers menu, the game does not tell you that Quick Travel exists. It used to be one of the general abilities that populated on your bar; at some point that changed.

Speeders have a similar problem. Speeder Piloting 1 isn't autotrained; it must be manually trained for 100 credits or taken as a legacy perk for 40,000 credits. For the new player, no longer directed by ANY quest or prior experience to seek a trainer, speeder piloting will be out of reach for some time. Even once speeder piloting is trained, redeeming  a speeder no longer places the speeder on a player's quickbar. While experienced players know where speeders are located in the powers menu, new players are not directed to it in any form. Even now, I have seen new players on fleet asking what happened to the speeder they bought.

Quick Travel as an Experienced Player
Look, I'm not a whale, but I have enough credits that Quick Travel is hardly going to dent my resources. I still map travel most of the time, or I'm taking a summons for an op. The relative scale of the Travel fee sink hits much harder when you have nothing in storage. So no, it's not going to change how I play much. It's just yet another added annoyance on the growing list of annoyances.

I know that the goal of these changes is to balance inflow of credits against outflow, as opposed to actually reducing the amount of credits in circulation, and yet... I feel like it's too high for the newbies. It takes Quick Travel from being a convenient perk to a luxury.

Maybe that's the point. I don't know.

[ceryxp]

On 2/9/2023 at 9:15 AM, JackieKo said:

Feedback questions!

Adjustments to repairing: 

• Do you find yourself having to repair more or less often?
• When you repair, does the cost increase seem significant or fair?

Adjustments to travel:

• Do the Quick Travel costs seem fair? Do you think this will affect your usage of Quick Travel?
• Are there travel costs that you currently find to be too little or too much? 
• Are there methods of travel that have no cost that you would expect to have a cost?

I created a new character on the PTS to test this from a beginner perspective.  The very first thing I noticed about Tython was the lack of trees.  I certainly hope that that is a bug and is not intended.  It would be rather ironic if you removed all of the trees from Tython whilst the winner of the Best View in SWTOR 2021 for Tython looks like this:

http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/promos/2021/November/22/Top_Tython.jpg

Edit -- just saw the known issue about trees and foliage.  Disregard the above.

 

Adjustments to repair:

At least on Tython the repair costs were negligible.  My highest repair bill was ~55 credits.  Certainly more than on live but not really noticeable.  Even though I repaired my equipment ever change I had I still ended up leaving the planet with approximately 15k credits.

 

Adjustments to travel:

Normally I would quick travel frequently on a new character.  I did not quick travel once on this character.  Standing next to the taxi droid at the Jedi Temple.  The cost to take the taxi from the Jedi Temple to the Gnarls, 10 credits.  The cost to quick travel, over 500 credits.  Completed the Knight story and standing at the Forge the cost to quick travel from there to the Gnarls, 2500 credits.

I do not know why this needs to be explained but if you make a credit sink onerous then it will not be effective.  It should not cost so much more to quick travel from one taxi point to another than it would be to take the taxi.  As I explained in a comment to Eric, one of the reasons people will travel to their stronghold and then exit to the planet is not to bypass the travel cost but to bypass the travel time.  When your options are:

1. sit through two load screens and then be able to QT, or
2. sit through a load screen, travel to the lift, sit through a load screen, travel out of the hanger, and then finally be able to QT

Which would you choose?  All you will succeed in doing with the quick travel costs as they are now is remove convenience and annoy the players.  The cost formula needs a major recalculation.  I know that the quick travel cost will cap out at 5k credits, which should be less of an issue on higher level characters, but will still be too high based upon an estimation of the distance versus cost on Tython.

My suggestions.

Firstly, there should be no quick travel costs on home worlds and capital worlds.  Yes, established players will hardly be impacted by these changes, but new players will have limited travel abilities at that time, so make the home worlds and capital worlds free quick travel zones.  Above that, ramp up quick travel costs as the character progresses in level.

Second, the distance calculation needs to be reevaluated.  On Tython, as I was leaving the Gnarls on route to the Temple for the first time I decided to check at what point quick travel cost would begin to increase.  Heading south from the Gnarls taxi the cost remained 100 credits (even standing right next to the quick travel terminal the cost was 100 credits) until just after I stepped off of the southern stairs.  Quick travelling from the first cave in the Knight story, where we fight Callef, back to the Gnarls taxi would have been over 200 credits.  As I stated above, taking the taxi from the Jedi Temple to the Gnarls would cost 10 credits, but quick travelling would cost over 500.  It should not cost 50 times more to quick travel the same distance as a taxi ride.  At that cost I am more likely to just take the taxi, which means Alt-Tabbing out of the game whist I wait on the taxi and doing something else.  I can not imagine what it would be like on Alderaan with the slow as molasses thranta taxis (I would have enough time to brew a cuppa).  The base cost for quick travel should be lowered to at least 50 credits, and the distance cost needs to be reevaluated.  For quick travel to be an effective credit sink the cost needs to be low enough that people do not even notice it but high enough to trickle credits from the game.  From what I saw on Tython you missed the mark by a few parsecs.

 

I intend to copy a high level character over to test these again, but I am confident that my opinions about the travel costs will not change.

Question.  I understand that I was on a low level character, but as soon as I was eligible I queued for PVP.  Over the next hour there was not a single match.  Are you going to give some consideration to the fact that PVP matches may be very difficult to get into with regard to the Opal Vulptilla mount or is a PVP match a hard requirement?

Also, when taking the shuttle from Tython to the fleet station the usual cutscene played showing the shuttle leaving Tython and travelling to the fleet station, but once that played I was presented with the prelude text crawl and shuttle arrival at Tython again before being deposited into the shuttle bay on the fleet station.

Edited February 12, 2023 by ceryxp
reasons

[ravennyxholmes]

These are some of the worst possible changes to implement in order to combat inflation, and a surefire way to drive new players off completely.

Things noticed on the PTS on a level 80 character: I am rich enough that most of these costs mean absolutely nothing to me besides a minor annoyance. Armor repair is the only good credit sink being tested currently, as it always has been, and the adjustments are fine. However: being forced to pay money every time I want to go to my stronghold is obnoxious especially with the price variation, and quick travel costing money sort of defeats the entire purpose of quick travel. If I wanted to pay money to go places, I would take a taxi. This puts no dent in my credits - again, level 80 character with 8 million in her inventory - but it is frustrating. This will do nothing to combat inflation, as the inflation is coming from high level players with billions upon billions of credits who aren't going to care about these travel costs. They will be unaffected by anything except armor repair (still a fairly small dent, all things considered), and that's only really if they're raiders.

Things noticed on the PTS on a level 1 character: The travel costs are absolutely prohibitive. As a rule, I will create a character, exit out of the opening cutscene, and travel to a stronghold to collect credits, outfits, and weapons for that character. Other people have also pointed this out, but you cannot do this now with these changes being implemented. This is obnoxious and makes playing a new character incredibly tiring. Why would I bother with developing a new character when it's far easier to play my old ones? To amass hundreds of credits, I will need to progress quite far in the storyline, negating the whole point of getting outfits, weapons, and credits before I start playing a new character. This will, again, not affect the richer players except to annoy them a little. It will affect poorer players, or players who focus on roleplay and story immersion. As a person who plays primarily for the stories, and thus puts a lot of thought into the aesthetic of my characters, this is disappointing to the extreme.

If you want a credit sink, let us use credits to collections unlock items. Hell, let us use credits to buy the most expensive and valuable cartel market dyes - I would fork over millions for a black/black dye to avoid having to use cartel coins, or to collections unlock items and weapons that are several hundred ccs per unlock. Likewise for the light/dark vendors, since we are currently unable to do anything with them besides buy items on characters who may have some leftover currency, of which there is a finite amount. Your biggest credit sink is always going to be cosmetic items or unlocks that players want and need, and ignoring this to place restrictions on travel costs of all things isn't going to do anything to the players whose money you are targeting. New players and free-to-play players will be the ones to suffer.

[DWho]

21 hours ago, DWho said:

Finally got onto the PTS to look at this. These changes will do nothing to combat inflation but will most definitely make the low level game tedious. Running the 4 Coruscant heroics with a lvl 80 Sentinel in 330 gear resulted in a repair bill of 10,178 credits but the credit yield (including selling "junk" dropped by the mobs) was 117,498 credits (and my bank on that character alone is 96 million) so those repair costs are meaningless to that character (and to any character that is high level or has a lot of credits available through legacy). Even these higher costs are insignificant in relation to the number of credits already in the game.

Ran the same set of heroics with a level 35 Sentinel in Rating 84 gear. Repair cost was 3600 credits and the yield from running all four heroics was 41,627 (including selling all drops from mobs). So for a level 80 character, the repair cost was 9% of the yield. For the level 35 character it was 8.6% of the yield. Basically the same, though this is a lot of repair for a pretty soft set of heroics. If you added in Quick travel costs, it is massively more costly for the low level character. If you have to have QT travel costs they should be lower for the low level plants and proportional to the taxi costs. I still think these travel costs are extremely punitive to low level characters (5000 credits is way too much for Coruscant)

[Elzizme]

Just started a new character on Tython. Did the exploration mission to find the lost padawans, fought & looted multiple flesh raiders along the way - current credit balance is 109 as not sold any loot, cost to travel back to the Gnarls to sell loot & repair - 401.

That's just irritating. On the live servers I won't be affected because I've got millions in my legacy bank, but as a brand new player that would put me right off. 

 

[Achnaattwo]

On 2/9/2023 at 7:15 AM, JackieKo said:

Adjustments to travel:

• Do the Quick Travel costs seem fair? Do you think this will affect your usage of Quick Travel?
• Are there travel costs that you currently find to be too little or too much? 
• Are there methods of travel that have no cost that you would expect to have a cost?

did this as first character, used sub starter pack , forgot to remove the 15k credits from login reward, so when I press sell junk, ended up with a extra 15k

Adjustments to travel: Only Korriban

Do the Quick Travel costs seem fair? not for Korriban, until I sold junk and got that 15k, it was costing me about 50% of my earned credits just to quick travel

Do you think this will affect your usage of Quick Travel?  doubt it, not with an already establish bank account, if I was a new player, I'd be timid to use quick travel just from experiencing it on Korriban, and losing half my credits just  from Quick travel use.  It'll be forever to have enough to unlock legacy perks and inventory slots

Are there travel costs that you currently find to be too little or too much?  so far only used it on  Korriban, and they are way too much there

[IzumiCurtis]

6 hours ago, Argomemnon said:

Just made a new toon on Hutta, hit level 6 tried to QT back to Nemro its was over 900 credits.  I only have a few hundred atm

found taxi I can take for 20 credits. I have sold every thing i can and still couldn't afford a single QT. So I log off get in a que for a WZ. We get in there, and we win in a blowout. I get back on fleet and use some items I wanted to test stuff with and also noticed CQ vales from live to PTS are wayyyyyy down. Using a reputation token yesterday and today and winning that WZ I'm sitting at 41k CQ.

On live i think I'm getting 46k CQ for using the exact same item. I feel like this isn't about the economy in-game but more about keeping players clocking in more time. Obviously newer players won't use QT if this goes live as they are broke. This is to make everything take a lot longer. I see a few players have voiced their concerns and offered alternative solutions for years now on the forums. I have made a few posts regarding this and the galactic season stuff. We continually get less for more. ( time invested / IRL money / and help of friends and guildies.)

We have continually asked for something to be done to the people who exploited this game and ruined it for others. This started steam rolling out of control about 3 years ago. Multiple credit exploits were used / reported by players ban those accounts remove the ill gotten credits. There are plenty of legit players who made honest money by trading items and crafting things to sell or selling cartel market items.

I love SWTOR I want it to stick around, Heck I even want a job there coming up with new ideas for various things. Unfortunately It is getting harder and harder to recommend this game to new players. I think this set of change will make it so only your diehard fans stick around because they don't really affect us, as we have unlocked most of the stuff we want / need and use our funds as maintenance money essentially.

Just pointing out that I'm pretty sure that you're forgetting the effect of strongholds on your Conquest points. I'm betting on live you've got the 150% bonus. Meanwhile, on PTS, unless you went around opening them up, you don't.

[ceryxp]

On 2/9/2023 at 9:15 AM, JackieKo said:

Feedback questions!

Adjustments to repairing: 

• Do you find yourself having to repair more or less often?
• When you repair, does the cost increase seem significant or fair?

Adjustments to travel:

• Do the Quick Travel costs seem fair? Do you think this will affect your usage of Quick Travel?
• Are there travel costs that you currently find to be too little or too much? 
• Are there methods of travel that have no cost that you would expect to have a cost?

First test with feedback using a new character created on the PTS.

Second test using a copied level 80 character in 330 modded gear with 324 accessories.

 

Feedback on adjustments to repairing:

Took my character to Onderon and completed a full circuit of the dailies (Republic side).  This character is a Sage and uses their companion as a tank.  For this test I completed all dailies before repairing.  My repair cost ended up being less than 3k credits, which is about in line with live.  This character is a ranged type using a tank companion versus my first test, which was with a new Shadow.  The higher repair costs I was seeing on Tython could certain be due to the fact that I tend to play ranged characters with tank companions versus that being a new melee without a companion.  That said, I went to Onderon with exactly 100,000 credits.  After repairing, selling junk, and using quick travel twice I had 424,553 credits.

I next tested what my repair costs would be after dying.  So I dismissed my companion, angered a few grefna, and let them beat me to death.  My repair cost: 21,161 credits, less than on live.

Between my two, certainly limited, tests I believe that the changes to repair will have a fairly negligible impact on players.  I did not test the cost to repair fully broken gear, but that cost has always been high, encouraging one to repair early and often (plus, I never allow my gear to get that broken and so have no point of reference for comparison).

 

Feedback on adjustments to travel:

Now this was interesting.  Compared to my observations on Tython, on Onderon there was not a single taxi-to-taxi quick travel cost that exceeded the cost to travel by taxi.  Standing at the Iziz Bridge taxi, the cost to travel to three taxi points: Republic Forest Camp, Republic Lake Observation Point, and Republic Forward Operating Base, were all 1000 credits.  Travel from the bridge to Iziz Palace was 750 credits.  If one were to quick travel from the same location the highest cost would be to travel from the Iziz Bridge to the Forest Encampment at a cost of 933 credits.  All other costs were lower to quick travel than to take a taxi over the same distance.

In the course of my normal route when doing Onderon dailies I would normally quick travel twice: once from inside the phased mission inside Iziz City to the Iziz Bridge, and the second from the Bag and Tag mission area to the Lake Overlook.  Both trips cost less than 200 credits.  In my prior post I stated that you had missed the mark by a few parsecs.  On Onderon you were right on target.

Then I went to Alderaan.  I take back what I said above.  You missed that target by more parsecs than the Kessel Run.  Standing at the Pallasta Spaceport Taxi here are the costs to travel by taxi to each taxi location versus travelling via quick travel:

From Pallasta Spaceport to (cost to taxi vs cost to QT):

• House Organa - 150 credits / 418 credits
• Shining Star - 300 credits / 857 credits
• Wardpost Duval - 300 credits / 1956 credits
• Wardpost Luurdes - 450 credits / 2841 credits
• House Trader's Circle - 600 credits / 4540 credits
• House Alde Library - 450 credits / 3365 credits
• Wardpost Landa - 450 credits / 2571 credits
• Wardpost Hurne - 600 credits / 2584 credits
• Panteer Refuge - 750 credits / 2004 credits

I understand that part of the appeal of quick travel is the instantaneous travel and that it can be done from anywhere, but why have it cost so much more to quick travel than to travel by taxi?  Again, all you will succeed in doing is annoying the players and removing convenience, and that does not make for a good credit sink.

Part of the issue, I believe, with what I am seeing on Tython and Alderaan versus Onderon is the base taxi cost.  On Tython it is 25 credits per hop, on Alderaan 150 per hop, and on Onderon 1000 per hop.  I believe that the reason quick travel costs seems so high on lower level planets is that the cost per hop to taxi is low compared to the cost to quick travel over a similar distance.  To test my hypothesis I went to Ossus.  The cost per hop on Ossus is 1500 credits.  The cost to quick travel from the Jedi Colony to any one of the three quick travel points ranged from 2617 credits to go to the Library up to 2734 credits to go to the Farms.  Essentially 1000 credits more, certainly, but hardly as extreme a cost difference as to quick travel on Tython.

 

My suggestion:

Firstly, I stand by my suggestion from my first post: the home worlds and capital worlds should be no cost quick travel zones.

I am not certain if this would be possible, but perhaps instead of making quick travel costs be based upon distance instead base it upon region similar to how travel by taxi is now.  For example, to travel from Pallasta Spaceport to the House Trader's Circle costs 600 credits as each hop increments the cost by 150 credits.  Move two hops closer, to Wardpost Duvaal, and the credit cost decreases a commensurate amount.  Do something similar with quick travel where moving to the nearest QT point will have a cost of X, and for each hop along the route the cost increases.  Even if the cost were twice that of the cost to travel by taxi I think most would view it as the cost of the convenience of instantaneous travel versus waiting for the taxi.

I do not find the idea of assigning a cost to quick travel abhorrent, but rather how you have chosen to implement it.  You speak of making changes to address player behaviours that have the intent of avoiding costs, but with the current implementation of quick travel costs all you will succeed in doing is causing players to avoid the cost of quick travelling.

 

Also, on PTS for over three hours tonight and at most there were eight people on.  Not a single PVP match.  I certainly hope that you will afford some consideration to the fact that getting into a PVP match can be quick difficult.

[DWho]

OK, Going through this step by step:

Started a new Jedi Knight. Only travel location reachable (due to 0 credits) is Gnarls

Completed the Kill the Flesh Raiders and Lost Padawan Quests and had to hoof it all the way back to the turn in point because QT cost 400 credits and I only had 51 credits. Had several unavoidable additional fights on the way back taking more damage. Repair cost was 10 credits and my "bank" was 129 after turning in the mission and selling stuff out of my inventory to clear space. Can't afford to expand my inventory yet as that costs 5000 credits.

Went to the Gnarls Cavern to seal the passage. Killed the fallen Jedi and had to hoof it back to the Gnarls base again (only way t get to the Jedi Temple from the Gnarls Cavern). QT cost was 622 credits and I only had 217. Ran into a couple more unavoidable fights taking more damage. Repairs were 12 credits this time (from damage to the upgraded gear I got for completing one of the previous missions).

Headed to the Jedi temple (could have taken a speeder as that was only 10 credits but there is a bonus mission between the Gnarls and the Temple). Fought some more flesh raiders along the way. Reached the temple and talked to Satele resulting in a "bank" of 363 credits. Repairs were 12 credits again (less fighting than the previous Gnarls Cavern trip but higher rated gear). Can't quick travel back to the Gnarls since it is 710 credits to do so.

All in all completing the Gnarls took a lot longer than it does on live because of the lack of quick travel ability (QT is about 10 seconds while walking there was several minutes). Normally I would have quick traveled at least once (saving several minutes). Repairs were about 10% of my "bank" compared to less than 2% on live.  QT costs are outrageous compared to speeder costs. QT from the Jedi temple to the Gnarls is 710 credits while taking the speeder is only 10.

More to follow:

[Screaming_Ziva]

On 2/10/2023 at 11:47 AM, Enomars said:

Suggestions:
Perhaps every quick travel could be a percent of credits in legacy bank and personal inventory at all times. Like 5%-10% of all credits owned per quick travel.  Make it every single type of travel. Strongholds, Starships. heroics, Priority (sharing a mission costed a 5% percent to receive) .  Only new players will be affected by quicktravel as it currently is.  Transferring credits to an offshore account (fake credit hording account/guild bank should cost 15%-20% transfer fee both directions mail or ingame trade!)  This would fix the economy and keep it fixed forever. Guild summons would need to align as well some how.  each summon would be a 2% of all credits in bank?  I have BILLIONS of credits and a percent tax is the only way you will get me to willingly spend my fortune.  Maybe make me pay for stronghold upkeep by percentage on all strongholds even the ones I never use. (DC Universe charged me a fee for stronghold upkeep)

So because I have 50b in my legacy storage it should cost me 2.5b - 5b to use Quick Travel?  That's insane.

[DWho]

1 minute ago, Screaming_Ziva said:

So because I have 50b in my legacy storage it should cost me 2.5b - 5b to use Quick Travel?  That's insane.

Honestly, with the prices where they are now on the PTS, most people are just going to stop using Quick Travel, which I think is what Bioware really wants (slower progress through the game). There is no way quick travel should cost significantly more than a speeder. The benefit just isn't worth the cost and that will severely limit the effectiveness of the "travel tax" since it is an avoidable tax.

[DWho]

10 hours ago, DWho said:

OK, Going through this step by step:

Started a new Jedi Knight. Only travel location reachable (due to 0 credits) is Gnarls

Completed the Kill the Flesh Raiders and Lost Padawan Quests and had to hoof it all the way back to the turn in point because QT cost 400 credits and I only had 51 credits. Had several unavoidable additional fights on the way back taking more damage. Repair cost was 10 credits and my "bank" was 129 after turning in the mission and selling stuff out of my inventory to clear space. Can't afford to expand my inventory yet as that costs 5000 credits.

Went to the Gnarls Cavern to seal the passage. Killed the fallen Jedi and had to hoof it back to the Gnarls base again (only way t get to the Jedi Temple from the Gnarls Cavern). QT cost was 622 credits and I only had 217. Ran into a couple more unavoidable fights taking more damage. Repairs were 12 credits this time (from damage to the upgraded gear I got for completing one of the previous missions).

Headed to the Jedi temple (could have taken a speeder as that was only 10 credits but there is a bonus mission between the Gnarls and the Temple). Fought some more flesh raiders along the way. Reached the temple and talked to Satele resulting in a "bank" of 363 credits. Repairs were 12 credits again (less fighting than the previous Gnarls Cavern trip but higher rated gear). Can't quick travel back to the Gnarls since it is 710 credits to do so.

All in all completing the Gnarls took a lot longer than it does on live because of the lack of quick travel ability (QT is about 10 seconds while walking there was several minutes). Normally I would have quick traveled at least once (saving several minutes). Repairs were about 10% of my "bank" compared to less than 2% on live.  QT costs are outrageous compared to speeder costs. QT from the Jedi temple to the Gnarls is 710 credits while taking the speeder is only 10.

More to follow:

Tython: Kalikori Village Part I

Met with the council and got mission to go to Kalikori village. I usually walk there so did that again for this test. Picked up all the missions there (missing father, elixers, and find weapons) then headed out. Finished at the point where you first meet T7. QT to the temple cantina and Kalikori village was about the same (200 credits) while travel to the Temple speeder pad was twice that (390 credits) which seems odd, obviously it is physical distance determining the cost and not "flight path". Since any of those were at least a third of all the credits I had (591 credits) at that point, hoofed it back to Kalikori Village (had to fight everything in the Flesh Raider caves again because they all respawned - more gear damage). Repairs were 45 credits and after turning in the three missions there I was up to 1103 credits.

Still too expensive to QT to the temple to pick up the next set of missions on the way to the Elarin Trail speeder. Took the speeder instead. picked up the romancing padawans and Fia missions then headed out for Elarin Trail Speeder post. After fighting the force using flesh raider, picked up the last mission in the area (flesh raider baby). After completing all the missions, turn ins were in three different locations. On live I would have quick traveled to all of these but that would have cost about 800 credits (I only had 1100 at that point). So, hoofed it to Elarin Trail to turn in the droid brain mission, took the speeder to the Jedi Temple for the flesh raider baby and romantic padawan missions and then the speeder again to Kalikori Village to speak to Orgus. All of the quick travel options were 10% or more of the total credits I had so I didn't use quick travel. Repairs were 60 credits and I ended this section with a "bank" of 2054 credits

One other thing that I ran into as an issue on the PTS that I don't have on the live servers was inventory management. You don't have enough credits to expand your inventory (costs 5000 credits) so it fills up pretty fast and with no companion to sell "grey" items, I ended up leaving some things behind because my inventory was full and the cost of the QT would have far exceeded the value of what was sold. Walking back to a vendor to empty the inventory added a lot of time to this section of play. On live I simply would have quick traveled to the nearest vendor, emptied my inventory and then went back. That was too costly an option on the PTS.

I'd estimate that the high QT costs increased the time to play this section 3-4 times. I'm still at a point where QT anywhere is at least 10% of the total credits I have (so not using it). Another note is that I am using my knowledge of the game (from playing it for 10 years) to minimize the back and forth, something new player wouldn't do which would increase their repair and travel costs above those I have mentioned above. Also of note, a lot of your "income" comes from "exploration" missions, so skipping those will leave you with a lot smaller credit total.

[Keleset]

On 2/9/2023 at 8:15 AM, JackieKo said:

Adjustments to repairing: 

• Do you find yourself having to repair more or less often? N/A; per the known issues thread, durability changes are not working. I don't mind this costing more. 
• When you repair, does the cost increase seem significant or fair? N/A

Adjustments to travel:

• Do the Quick Travel costs seem fair? Do you think this will affect your usage of Quick Travel? As a long term player who averages 1-4b credits, they are a non issue and will not affect my usage of QT. What does bug me is the window that asks if you are willing to pay the cost each time. As a pretend new but subbed player. I leveled a new character without using any legacy perks, no sending mail over, etc. and got her to Coruscant with maybe 6,000 credits. The only issue was that I couldn't quick travel as much as I wanted. 
• Are there travel costs that you currently find to be too little or too much? I won't say what has been said hundreds of times already, so all I have to say is that the starter planet and capital planet quick travel costs should be cheaper.
• Are there methods of travel that have no cost that you would expect to have a cost? No

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Keleset

[Levanchar]

Thanks @JackieKo & Bioware Devs for attempting to tackle the credit economy inflation.

Please see comments below to the feedback questions:

Adjustments to repairing: 

• Do you find yourself having to repair more or less often?
  • I find myself repairing more often, especially with higher level toons eligible for endgame content
• When you repair, does the cost increase seem significant or fair?
  • I find the cost increase significant and unbalanced. For example I sometimes pay more for repairs doing heroics then I do fighting a boss in a Flashpoint. Shouldn't the 'harder' content do more damage to your gear and cost more to fix?

Adjustments to travel:

• Do the Quick Travel costs seem fair? Do you think this will affect your usage of Quick Travel?
  • They are unfair. No it won't change my usage of Quick Travel.
• Are there travel costs that you currently find to be too little or too much? 
  • No. I'm happy with the current setup
• Are there methods of travel that have no cost that you would expect to have a cost?
  • No

Overall, the adjustments to travel are a bad idea. It's going to make it harder and frustrating for newer and first time players to progress in the game if they don't have the credits (or earn enough via normal gameplay) to cover the costs.

I'd suggest abandoning the travel costs idea altogether and work on credit sinks that will give wealthy player something to spend it on.

Other Feedback:

Off the top of my head, below are some credit sink ideas Bioware could implement

 

Using credits on currently Cartel Coin only purchases \ unlocks

• This can be done in the form of time limited events (e.g. weekly \ monthly sale specials) to minimize the impact on Bioware's revenue (assuming Cartel Coins contribute anything to your bottom line)
• You can adapt the coding used in Galactic Seasons where you can unlock levels with CCs and credits
• Some examples of where this can be used:
  • Appearance Designer
  • Collection Unlocks
  • Character Renames
  • Server Transfers

 

A Cartel Market that competes with the GTN

• Re-releasing vintage gear, decorations etc that players can't get anymore will reduce demand other players holding a near monopoly on said items in the gtn

 

Adapting the guild decoration donation system to players

• Currently if I want multiple copies of a decoration, I have to grind content (& hope I get it in a reasonable timeframe) or buy it from the gtn
• If players can purchase additional copies of decorations for themselves using the same system where we pay ~50k credits to donate x deco to a guild, that will also reduce demand on the gtn

Hard coding a maximum amount any item in game can be sold for (e.g. 1 billion credits)

• This will likely be unpopular with some of the player base, but it may stop some of the crazy prices players sell items for

 

Updating the algorithm on Cartel Packs to not give players items they already have

• These extra items, if they can't be donated or traded will end up being sold on the gtn
• A check on account wide collections should help tackle this

 

[Traceguy]

On 2/12/2023 at 9:11 PM, ceryxp said:

I next tested what my repair costs would be after dying.  So I dismissed my companion, angered a few grefna, and let them beat me to death.  My repair cost: 21,161 credits, less than on live.

You did something wrong. My guess is you did not test live, you're just assuming. I've tested multiple times logging in and out of both games, with a notebook handy. PTS was about 7K+ more credits per death.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Traceguy

[DWho]

15 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

You did something wrong. My guess is you did not test live, you're just assuming. I've tested multiple times logging in and out of both games, with a notebook handy. PTS was about 7K+ more credits per death.

According to what Bioware posted, deaths are supposed to cost less on the PTS than on live. If it's not working that way, there is a bug on the PTS. For whatever reason, they decided it should cost you more if you barely survive a fight than if it kills you.

Durability of equipment should now be lost at a LOWER rate on death, but a slightly HIGHER rate in normal gameplay. 

[Traceguy]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

According to what Bioware posted, deaths are supposed to cost less on the PTS than on live. If it's not working that way, there is a bug on the PTS. For whatever reason, they decided it should cost you more if you barely survive a fight than if it kills you.

Durability of equipment should now be lost at a LOWER rate on death, but a slightly HIGHER rate in normal gameplay. 

Wrong. Bioware said armor degrades less on death. However, they said they changed the prices, and made armor degrade faster (slightly higher) in normal gameplay.

Right here clear as day: 

• Repair cost formulas have been adjusted across the entirety of the game so that repair costs increase in relation to item level.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Traceguy

[DWho]

38 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

Wrong. Bioware said armor degrades less on death. However, they said they changed the prices, and made armor degrade faster (slightly higher) in normal gameplay.

Right here clear as day: 

• Repair cost formulas have been adjusted across the entirety of the game so that repair costs increase in relation to item level.

Both are true. Repair costs come from durability loss.

Edited February 14, 2023 by DWho

[Asacledhae]

Have you been to the PTS? Cause the first thing you get if you make a new char and want to access a "SH", was a message that you don't have enough credits.

So unless that was patched up, recently, many here had a different experience than what you say.

I really hope that's the case, and we won't get to waste credits by simply accessing our homes.

[WHTJunior]

18 minutes ago, Asacledhae said:

Have you been to the PTS? Cause the first thing you get if you make a new char and want to access a "SH", was a message that you don't have enough credits.

So unless that was patched up, recently, many here had a different experience than what you say.

I really hope that's the case, and we won't get to waste credits by simply accessing our homes.

I haven't, but here is the post regarding the intended function of SH travel cost:

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927608-credit-economy-initiative-beginning-with-721/?do=findComment&comment=9742600

I guess it was in the longer thread, not this one. If it isn't working that way, it needs to be reported.

[Asacledhae]

13 minutes ago, WHTJunior said:

I haven't, but here is the post regarding the intended function of SH travel cost:

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927608-credit-economy-initiative-beginning-with-721/?do=findComment&comment=9742600

I guess it was in the longer thread, not this one. If it isn't working that way, it needs to be reported.

Aha, interesting! Thanks for the info.

[JackieKo]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:54 AM, SilentMagician said:

Note that your other thread specifically directed people to come here to give feedback. So if you're going around deleting feedback that you directed to come here, you need to be clear in your original instructions.

That's fair. I updated the language in the general thread. I'm also repeating for the fourth time here in this thread that PTS feedback be left here and general discussion be kept to the general thread. I am leaving your comment here because you made a fair point in communication flow. 

[EzzyShade]

not sure if it's been suggested yet but capping the Player Trade and Player Mail to 1 billion like the GTN is would be another good prevention of credit abuse..

while testing on the PTS, it hit my first character i copied with no credits harder than it did the second one that i copied over with credits on-hand.. i feel without access to a legacy storage, all these travel costs will just impact the newer players more than the ones with billions to spare.. adding credit sinks like retired items (31A variant mando armor that Rass Ordo has comes to mind), allowing players to duplicate decorations like guilds can for personal strongholds, that level 80 odessen test terminal could be repurposed to cost several billion to boost a toon to level 70/75/80 as a credit sink for end gamers, and adjusting the costs for "high-end" items on the CM would reduce their "value" players assign them drastically..

[Crooklynone]

Tested multiple times. Hate the popup that can't be deactivated. Not a fan of the QT costs, especially to my SH. We already paid for this perk and it wasn't cheap. We paid for the legacy travel perks too. Will those be made obsolete? It seems that this could've been addressed ages ago but devs were comfortable letting inflation balloon to the point it's at now, resulting in this scramble to adjust. 

The worst part of the changes is the sliding scale for repair costs. FTP players will be where you end up losing out because those guys will be hit hardest and would be more likely to abandon the game altogether but I'm guessing FTPs are not your priority.