Bioware we need to talk about Warzone Medals

[Pandoras_Jar]

Hey everyone,

I've attempted to compile a list of all the Medals (in 7.2) and to summarise some of the main issues/problems we are facing obtaining medals, particularly in Warzones. 

Table of Medals

I have compiled a table of all the medals in Game Update 7.2 with comparisons to an older (incomplete) list of medals I found.

This is NOT a complete list and is an ongoing work in progress.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JKbnCK4h1BqdAbfjNAdwUQBLZaCofCX4oFa71yitqa8/edit?usp=sharing 

Most Role Medals have been Removed

When compared to the medals we got prior to 7.2, here's what's missing from WARZONES.

• Destroyer and Combatant (overall damage) medals 
• Shield and Guardian (protection) medals
• Savior (overall healing) medal

The removal of these medals makes it more difficult for all three roles (especially DPS and Tanks) to get their 8 medals. 

Role Medal Adjustments

The readjusted Annihilator (60k single damage) and Trauma Surgeon (60k single heal) Medals are too high for most classes. I would reduce them to 45-50k. Crits that high are somewhat rare and not easily obtainable for most classes.

Some other Medals Removed from Warzones

• Commando (4 Kills)
• Soldier (8 Kills)
• Quick Draw (1 Killing Blow)
• Assassin (1 Solo Kill)

I think it's safe to assume the removal of these medals won't be reversed. Either way, it goes to show the impact the removal of multiple medals is having. 

Objective Medals

In summary, objective medals are harder to get. Even if you are fighting right next to the node or a door, accumulation of offense and defense medals is a lot slower now. This appears to be cause offence and defense points are ticking or obtained much more slowly. This is an issue on almost all the node maps in my experience. Winning on these maps is not even a guarantee of getting 8 medals. Even players who guard a node the whole match are rarely able to get 8 medals.

On Huttball maps, it's a bit more hit and miss in my experience. If you are scoring, you're much more likely to get 8 medals. But if you are only helping/carrying the ball part of the way, you don't always get rewarded. 

What should be Changed (IMO)?

Increase the rate that offense and defense points are gained to more closely resemble the rate we got them prior to 7.2. This would make playing objectives more rewarding! 

Add more medals for DPS and Tanks - reintroduce at least one medal for each role that was taken away and make them reasonably easy to obtain.

• For DPS, bring back the Demolisher Medal (1 mill, same as arenas)

Conclusion

It doesn't feel very rewarding doing warzones at the moment, even when you're fully helping out with the objective and winning the match. I compiled this to try and figure out what is happening and perhaps to have a constructive discussion (wishful thinking probably haha) in the hope of getting our concerns looked into and/or addressed.

I don't want medals to be super easy to get, I just think a better balance can be achieved. I don't expect to get 8 medals sitting in mid in Hypergate for a whole match. But if I'm fighting at the Pylons for the majority of a match, I would expect to be able to get 8 medals more easily (this is not the case right now).

If I've missed anything (I'm sure I have), feel free to reply. 

[Fraah]

I was in a Vandin Huttball today where I got 9 medals and was the only one to actually get 8 or more. That's not good.

[denajii]

Such an annoying, useless change imo.. it hasn't made pvp any more fun

[VegaMist]

So, reviewing the chart above - kills appear to create a path to potentially way more medals than heals/protection effectively punishing healers/tanks for keeping their teams alive. We already have fewer players in these roles. This will result in even fewer of them in PVP. Personally, I don't care if team healers get in even a single kill as long as they keep rest of the team alive. Similar for tanks whose kill numbers will be low if they focus on protection which is their job. Both of these classes can make a huge difference between winning or losing a match. I'd hate to see them re-roll into DPS to avoid being punished.

[krackcommando]

54 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

So, reviewing the chart above - kills appear to create a path to potentially way more medals than heals/protection effectively punishing healers/tanks for keeping their teams alive. We already have fewer players in these roles. This will result in even fewer of them in PVP. Personally, I don't care if team healers get in even a single kill as long as they keep rest of the team alive. Similar for tanks whose kill numbers will be low if they focus on protection which is their job. Both of these classes can make a huge difference between winning or losing a match. I'd hate to see them re-roll into DPS to avoid being punished.

xam xam was streaming pvp the past couple nights. mostly solo as far as I could tell. I only watched a couple matches each night.

she was running around basically by herself. not that it mattered in the one NC b/c her team was farmed hard. I don't think she lived long enough to get medals of any kind.

my point is that it's more important than ever to queue in a group and stay with that group, particularly if you're a support role. b/c unless you're just lucky enough to be around when something is capped, you're not going to even be alive long enough to cap or defend things (while still putting out dmg/heals/prot).

[darthscotty]

3 hours ago, krackcommando said:

xam xam was streaming pvp the past couple nights. mostly solo as far as I could tell. I only watched a couple matches each night.

she was running around basically by herself. not that it mattered in the one NC b/c her team was farmed hard. I don't think she lived long enough to get medals of any kind.

my point is that it's more important than ever to queue in a group and stay with that group, particularly if you're a support role. b/c unless you're just lucky enough to be around when something is capped, you're not going to even be alive long enough to cap or defend things (while still putting out dmg/heals/prot).

 

This is exactly my problem with the current pvp system. MY medals count is to dependent on how other people on my team are performing.  My medal count should depend on how I perform not how my team performs. This system rewards only those who que in a group and if you are solo queing you are punished, hard for it.  

[krackcommando]

13 hours ago, darthscotty said:

 

This is exactly my problem with the current pvp system. MY medals count is to dependent on how other people on my team are performing.  My medal count should depend on how I perform not how my team performs. This system rewards only those who que in a group and if you are solo queing you are punished, hard for it.  

I'm not sure how this point of view is possible to structure into the game any more than it already is. all medals depend on the team. Some are team specific. But they all depend on team performance.

IF you are a healer, you should very definitely NOT run around a WZ on your own. Firstly, you only have yourself to heal. Second, you present the opposing team with only one person to kill, which means you die fast and lose healing uptime. Third, there's no one to guard or taunt damage off of you (again, uptime on heals goes south as well as time on guard/attack).

Not only is your performance directly connected to your teammates (and it always has been), but the entire game is designed around team work: damage dealers, healers, tanks. they are designed to work together. if you're off playing by yourself in a WZ match, then you're doing it wrong with only a few exceptions (guarding and ninja capping from a solo guard).

It appears that BW did away with many "counting stat" medals. I'm only speculating here, but I think they did this to dissuade (or at least remove the quest reward) that "damage farmers" get in the games (incl. heal and prot farming). The idea seems to be that they want to stop awarding medals to players and grps who only queue up to fluff numbers. I don't think these players and groups really cared about medals or completing quests in the first place, but I think it's a fair speculation that the reason for the removal of these types of medals was to nudge the players ruining WZs by ignoring win conditions to focus more on the win conditions.

I'm not endorsing this solution. I'm just telling you what it looks like and how it fits in the larger trends of 7.2 changes. for example, if you want your 8 medals, you won't be able to get it via dmg medals alone. you need defender and capper medals. I suppose this is to encourage players who never guard (because "objectives aren't pvp") to guard a bit in order to reach their medal count.

this all leads back to my first post. it's just a suggestion that to maximize your uptime, which is much more valuable in 7.2 because of the restricted medal structure, it's more important than ever that you work in groups. not lone wolf. although tbh, that has always been the best advice to winning WZ and arena matches.

[Giberelina]

Grabbing the ball, passing and dying all the time to carry for a victory, got 4 medals, lol. I don't care about medals really but just leaving my input.

[Weswhitebore]

Thank you Xam Xam for your hard work. You are the shining light in our very dark PVP tunnel. You are the Swtor content creator we desperately need to provide wisdom and insight to this pvp format, in this, our time of need, at our neediest hour.

 

On 12/16/2022 at 4:28 AM, Pandoras_Jar said:

Hey everyone,

I've attempted to compile a list of all the Medals (in 7.2) and to summarise some of the main issues/problems we are facing obtaining medals, particularly in Warzones. 

Table of Medals

I have compiled a table of all the medals in Game Update 7.2 with comparisons to an older (incomplete) list of medals I found.

This is NOT a complete list and is an ongoing work in progress.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JKbnCK4h1BqdAbfjNAdwUQBLZaCofCX4oFa71yitqa8/edit?usp=sharing 

Most Role Medals have been Removed

When compared to the medals we got prior to 7.2, here's what's missing from WARZONES.

• Destroyer and Combatant (overall damage) medals 
• Shield and Guardian (protection) medals
• Savior (overall healing) medal

The removal of these medals makes it more difficult for all three roles (especially DPS and Tanks) to get their 8 medals. 

Role Medal Adjustments

The readjusted Annihilator (60k single damage) and Trauma Surgeon (60k single heal) Medals are too high for most classes. I would reduce them to 45-50k. Crits that high are somewhat rare and not easily obtainable for most classes.

Some other Medals Removed from Warzones

• Commando (4 Kills)
• Soldier (8 Kills)
• Quick Draw (1 Killing Blow)
• Assassin (1 Solo Kill)

I think it's safe to assume the removal of these medals won't be reversed. Either way, it goes to show the impact the removal of multiple medals is having. 

Objective Medals

In summary, objective medals are harder to get. Even if you are fighting right next to the node or a door, accumulation of offense and defense medals is a lot slower now. This appears to be cause offence and defense points are ticking or obtained much more slowly. This is an issue on almost all the node maps in my experience. Winning on these maps is not even a guarantee of getting 8 medals. Even players who guard a node the whole match are rarely able to get 8 medals.

On Huttball maps, it's a bit more hit and miss in my experience. If you are scoring, you're much more likely to get 8 medals. But if you are only helping/carrying the ball part of the way, you don't always get rewarded. 

What should be Changed (IMO)?

Increase the rate that offense and defense points are gained to more closely resemble the rate we got them prior to 7.2. This would make playing objectives more rewarding! 

Add more medals for DPS and Tanks - reintroduce at least one medal for each role that was taken away and make them reasonably easy to obtain.

• For DPS, bring back the Demolisher Medal (1 mill, same as arenas)

Conclusion

It doesn't feel very rewarding doing warzones at the moment, even when you're fully helping out with the objective and winning the match. I compiled this to try and figure out what is happening and perhaps to have a constructive discussion (wishful thinking probably haha) in the hope of getting our concerns looked into and/or addressed.

I don't want medals to be super easy to get, I just think a better balance can be achieved. I don't expect to get 8 medals sitting in mid in Hypergate for a whole match. But if I'm fighting at the Pylons for the majority of a match, I would expect to be able to get 8 medals more easily (this is not the case right now).

If I've missed anything (I'm sure I have), feel free to reply. 

 

[huggotwo]

2 hours ago, krackcommando said:

all medals depend on the team. Some are team specific. But they all depend on team performance.

 

That would be valid for ranked pvp but I dont see the value for req wz's. Why bother come at all if there is no achieable goal even if I am unlucky in the draw of matchmaking?
More so it do seem that I with my lvl48 gunslinger either do less damage or it is no longer counted, also I am absolutely steamrolled by lvl75's with 400k or more hp now.

I seem to gain less exp aswell... there is a lot I dont like in the latest patch :(

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

54 minutes ago, huggotwo said:

 

That would be valid for ranked pvp but I dont see the value for req wz's. Why bother come at all if there is no achieable goal even if I am unlucky in the draw of matchmaking?
More so it do seem that I with my lvl48 gunslinger either do less damage or it is no longer counted, also I am absolutely steamrolled by lvl75's with 400k or more hp now.

I seem to gain less exp aswell... there is a lot I dont like in the latest patch

You just need to change your perspective. Prior to 7.2, there was no goal for doing regs. Now, there are rewards. You might be reaching there slower or faster than someone else, but you are still getting more than you were previously. It is easy to see that this update is a huge positive for everyone.

[krackcommando]

1 hour ago, huggotwo said:

 

That would be valid for ranked pvp but I dont see the value for req wz's. Why bother come at all if there is no achieable goal even if I am unlucky in the draw of matchmaking?
More so it do seem that I with my lvl48 gunslinger either do less damage or it is no longer counted, also I am absolutely steamrolled by lvl75's with 400k or more hp now.

I seem to gain less exp aswell... there is a lot I dont like in the latest patch

I don't want to derail the thread. I was just making a suggestion for how best to cope with the tightened medal requirements. they seem to be more focused on objectives over "counting stats," and the best way to get objective points is working together.

[Ulathar]

I don't mind the general idea of making medals more difficult to obtain, but feel like it's been overdone with 7.2 and would like to see it tweaked a little bit. 

For example, I'd like to see overall damage, protection and healing medals which were taken out brought back, but only obtainable by the roles they are designed for. If I queue as tank, I can't get the high overall damage medals, but the protection ones. That way you won't have an inflated number of possible medals, still having it more challenging to get to 8 than pre-7.2, but also having more options tied to your role. 

I'd also love to see some new medals introduced, like one for performing X amount of ability interrupts. Or one for specifically stopping someone from capping a node - or, if not that, then have such an action grand a certain amount of defense points (with a Y second cd so if someone just keeps clicking a node or door you can't just accumulate a large amount in seconds). On that same note, have attempts of capping grant attack points. To combat just clicking a door or node over and over to get points, have the attack points only be granted if 80% of the full cap time was reached (or Z seconds of cap channel in case of Novare, for both offense and defense). With how tied medals are to the awards now, tha might even encourage more focus on the objectives. 

Anyway, just my thoughts on medals.  

[Shabir_Dhillon]

Hi, thanks for the feedback on the PVP medals. We are keeping an eye on this thread for feedback and are always looking for ways we can improve the medal system.

One of our goals was to encourage players to play objectives in Warzones and get rewarded for them. An example of that is planting the bomb giving an additional medal along with attacker points. 

Another goal is to discourage players from number farming in Warzones. This is why certain medals were removed and additional ones were added in other areas like objective interactions and attacker and defender points. 

Lastly, we want players to feel as if medals are rewarding to get, but we are always looking to adjust the current medals based on feedback. 

We are reading feedback about medals being difficult to gain for the losing team along with being unable to complete enough objectives. This appears to be holding true for stalemate matches, as well. We will review your feedback and compare it to our data to determine the adjustments we may need to make. We will also look into damage, healing, and protection and make adjustments with those as needed.

Thank you for taking the time to write such detailed feedback and we will be keeping an eye on this thread for more feedback.

Happy Holidays,
Shabir Dhillon

[NicoleMay]

Honestly, I don't find PVP medals as important. There are 6 weekly objectives, you can get 3 of them, and if you are going for the 25 Weekly missions chivo, you'll get em all no matter what.

It's still something that needs tuning, but I don't think it needs to be a priority. There are other things that should be focused on in regards to PVP Seasons.

Edited December 19, 2022 by NicoleMay

[Tungstenses]

 

28 minutes ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hi, thanks for the feedback on the PVP medals. We are keeping an eye on this thread for feedback and are always looking for ways we can improve the medal system.

-snip-

I just don't get why we can't get an 8 v 8 TDM match, so people will have a map to number farm on and be happy with, or you know, be able to select maps before we hop into matches like Vet FPs. What a novel idea. Like literally, it's like the intention was to make this as convoluted, and difficult to progress as possible, just to artificially increase player retention. I've voiced this in a different thread, but people are going to stop queuing because of this, irrespective of the "incentive" of the pass. 

Either they won't get their medals and won't feel a desire to even try if they can't get full rewards, (we also haven't gotten a statement I believe why MVP votes were removed), or they won't queue because the most effective way is to stack, so if you don't have friends on, maybe just want to try pvping to get some semblance of rewards by just pvping, you'll get rolled, irrespective if you're playing objectives or not. 

Literally, its so funny to me this quote: "Another goal is to discourage players from number farming in Warzones."  I'll have that emblazoned on my tomb stone, because it's literally what premade stacks are doing now. Rather though, it's not number farming, it's win farming, (while also number farming ironically). Like it's just disheartening, because I pretty much have to group up, if I want to get through my weeklies without being just dogged down by casual regular pvp. I also love the logic of removing damage/tank/healing medals, but it's nearly impossible to get the medal requirements by playing objectives this season despite the intention. You're still better off trying to farm, if I'm at the basis that I know I won't get the medals required, I guess I'll just try to have the most fun the way I play, which is you know... Player versus Player fighting. 

Reducing the players incentive to PvP by removing the rewards for PvPing is just very counterintuitive. Why not keep the old medals and simply add in these new medals? What's the harm in that? That way you'd make your medals from both: healing/damaging/or tanking players, and playing objectives. Everyone wins no? 

Or again, make a TDM mode/map.

You guys could literally remove the objectives from all the current maps we have, and just have them be a 'clash' mode, where its based on kills, with a tiebreaker on cumulative performance of the team (so much damage gets a player 1 point, so much protection gets a player 1 point, healing so on so forth, soft example is like 1mil damage is 1 point, so if you get 3mil damage you get 3 points, blah blah blah, it's oversimplified, but I can expand it if neeed. I hope that's clear enough, essentially a kill could be 3 point, your respective performance based on your class also gets you points or just say screw it and make it TDM), so a player who is maybe less skilled can still be made up for by a better performing player.

Now you might say that's the intention of Arenas, but majority of arenas are only completable with full medals if you completely stomp the opposing team. Meaning premaking your group, is the most viable way. Meaning, if I try to play solo, and want to try to you know PvP, I just get ganked by 3dps and a healer versus my 4 dps, or 3 dps and a tank. Why queue against a group in queue, if I know I'm going to lose? (any answer is just more justification for bringing back solo ranked, which isn't going to happen.) hence the population will die. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Tungstenses

[Crystal_Mind]

32 minutes ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

One of our goals was to encourage players to play objectives in Warzones and get rewarded for them. An example of that is planting the bomb giving an additional medal along with attacker points. 

Another goal is to discourage players from number farming in Warzones. This is why certain medals were removed and additional ones were added in other areas like objective interactions and attacker and defender points. 

Lastly, we want players to feel as if medals are rewarding to get, but we are always looking to adjust the current medals based on feedback. 

I spent the last week playing both solo and grouped. With regard to warzones, it is very clear that playing for the win conditions of the map and winning were both emphasized. It's a good plan, but in practice there are issues. A couple direct observations:

• Wins are disproportionately rewarded:
  I had one warzone where everyone on my team gained an extra 4 medals at the end based on time-to-win. Reward wins, sure, but this seemed excessive considering that your medal points already get tripled with a win for your season's total. (Even when the other team literally just gave up and sat down after the first minute of the match, I'm not sure they needed that much salt in their wounds.)
   
• Objective medals are inadequately distributed:
  -Only one (rarely 2) people can plant a voidstar bomb at each junction (and it's usually the same person, because they get to the front while the rest of their team forms a roadblock for the enemy). 
  -There's usually only one or two people defending a controlled point on novare/yavin/alderaan. More is counterproductive. Contested points seem to reward defenders significantly more than attackers.
  -Picking up orbs is counterproductive in hypergate (and rare, if the enemy is paying attention), and there's probably only one guard on a pylon unless someone is losing badly and has been pushed all the way back to their "home" pylon.
  -Only one player can score a huttball
  -And so on...

In sum, the medals just feel uneven. Combined with a punishing LO system, I'm seeing more matches that are decided in the first 90s of combat, where the apparent losing team has 3+ members who simply retreat to their one controlled turret for defender points while emoting about the loss in hopes of a quick end to the match so they can maybe get more medals on the next round.

[Weswhitebore]

27 minutes ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Another goal is to discourage players from number farming in Warzones. This is why certain medals were removed and additional ones were added in other areas like objective interactions and attacker and defender points. 

Respectfully, no matter how much discouragement you attempt, if a player really wants to number farm, they will number farm. Since they will number farm regardless, you might as well not discourage it at all because at the end of the day, any restrictions you place will affect the non-number farmers. Harder to get medals helps nobody and hurts everyone, it doesn't make people want to play objectives, it only encourages objective Andy to keep toxicly screaming about the objective and fuss when they don't get their way. It also encourages serial AFKers because somebody has to guard, if you do guard you're playing the objective technically. If you leave the match, you will just be greatly punished for not having fun in that match, especially since the timeout is going off matches quit in less than 1 week, which was confirmed by Jackie. If you're not having a good time, you will be forced to provide the most minimum participation possible so if you're going to progress in the track either way, logically, you might as well AFK. (This is not an endorsement for AFKing, this is simply stating the situation as it is does not discourage nor disadvantage players who do such).  I encourage some of you to actually play the content while it's live, be a gamer, and you will get a first hand experience. I don't mean play 1-2 matches then stop, I mean the full player experience, queue for 6 WZs and a few arenas, queue multiple times a week at different times, queue on the most pvp active and complained about servers, that way you have personal first hand experience.

 

I

10 minutes ago, Tungstenses said:

just don't get why we can't get an 8 v 8 TDM match, so people will have a map to number farm on and be happy with, or you know, be able to select maps before we hop into matches like Vet FPs

I like this idea and support it, a 8 vs 8 TDM WZ or another WZ like Ancient Hypergate where the kills contribute towards the success of the win. That way everyone can be satisfied and everyone will be technically be playing towards the objective. You see Bioware, the trick isn't to try and force players into content they don't enjoy or wanna play, it's to get them to enjoy said content by mixing or incorporating elements that make them want to play, like the PVP Seasons track. While I still do not approve of the previous Ranked rewards being handed out as participation trophies, having the PVP seasons track was a good idea and incentive.

 

On the Subject of selecting maps, I think we actually need more WZ maps that AREN'T HUTTBALL along with map selection/ voting. Put the maps in the players hands. Please, no more Huttball. This is not a request, this is me actually begging, please, no more new Huttball maps. I could list them out the problems,actually, I will list them, but these videos speak more volume than my words, videos by Mark Biggs, one of the best PVP content creators SWTOR had. Huttball is one of the worst modes in the game. Huttball, which is just dominated simply by playing an Operative and an Assassin. Huttball, where my teammate instead of being my teammate easily can become my enemy or work against me, they can be standing right there to receive the ball, and still never uncloak to actually receive the ball. Huttball where instead of running towards the endzone they run towards another man or woman not on their team. Don't forget my favorite (haha, not really) mode, Huttball, where players don't look up and where the game is bad at verticality. Map is so much about height that Obi-wan would love it, so much high ground. Shoutout to Huttball, where the goal is to avoid actual combative PVP and just get the ball in the end zone, utility PVP, which is less fun and full of standing around. Lastly, Huttball, where D-Sync is a major problem and players magically disappear for like 3-5 seconds, all leading to an mode that creates almost nothing but frustrating play experiences. It would also be nice to see you sit down with the content creators, both PVE and PVP alike, maybe in a yearly stream, once-twice a year, for them to bring forth the communities biggest concerns that revolve around the content they cover. We appreciate that you are letting us know that you actually see the feedback in some of these places, unlike previously, players were not feeling heard or actually listened to.

Video Proof Huttball is not liked (Read the comments section as well)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmPJdWV0-tA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZyn2dUN3XA  (The most important one)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/REBjR2ndeEE

 

[DarthEndonae]

I'm glad that medals are harder to obtain and not as guaranteed since it seems to be incentivizing players to try harder and actually play objectives. However, I agree that it's harder to get medals when your team is losing, even if you're playing well because it's hard to do objectives on your own.

60k in a single hit is absolutely doable for burst specs and I like that it reinforces proper gearing by making it a little bit difficult to obtain. That said, it isn't guaranteed for DoT specs. Maybe increase it to 65k and add another medal that rewards you for DoT spreading to at least 4 people with a single ability or something so that both burst and DoT specs have a unique medal.

[Bullyabass]

5 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

One of our goals was to encourage players to play objectives in Warzones and get rewarded for them. An example of that is planting the bomb giving an additional medal along with attacker points. 

Another goal is to discourage players from number farming in Warzones. This is why certain medals were removed and additional ones were added in other areas like objective interactions and attacker and defender points. 

Well that didn't work. You can do nothing but play objectives and you'll get perhaps 5 medals. 

Number farming has been replaced by large premades rolling around the warzone kill farming. What might have been two 3 person premades queuing against each other has now become one six person premade in the queue with no way to balance it other than with randoms who will tend to be the less experienced players.

You could have found all of this out if you asked the players before making changes.

 

[Exly]

6 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Lastly, we want players to feel as if medals are rewarding to get, but we are always looking to adjust the current medals based on feedback. 

Happy Holidays,
Shabir Dhillon

No medal = no reward. 

That is the opposite of rewarding and provides more negative feedback than I think you indented to inflict.

[Exly]

5 hours ago, Llacertus said:

For the purpose of creating a non-toxic pvp environment, medals should be removed all together. Allowing medals to exist created toxic competition. The devs have fully understood that the best way to remove toxicity is to remove player competition. As we learned from the last few of ranked pvp seasons, Nothing but an un-inclusive toxic cesspool has resulted from competition being the primary focus of pvp. The removal of these toxic incentives is the perfect solution to making this a welcoming and inclusive kind of pvp game. Bioware should give medals the same treatment that was given to the leaderboards and the toxic ranked playerbase. The removal of these toxic incentives will yank the last of the evil ranked players from our great game. Lastly I want to thank the devs for their unwavering commitment to our swtor. Their wise decision to completely outlaw ranked pvp has brought so much hope back to this game. I completely underestimated the abilities of our dev team at first. I am happy to say that this great star wars universe is blessed to have you guys creating amazing stories for us all.

I wonder, do you play to win?  Do you think that they should stop having winners and losers?  

Pvp is about competing with other players and wins and losses are a part of the game. 

Likewise, medals are a way of measuring and encouraging participation and help to provide positive feedback to players for their participation.  Also, medals are used to reward players with earned conquest points.  

If they took medals away, they would take away the positive feedback that is provided to those that receive them, and that would be bad for the game.

[steveerkcanjerk]

1 hour ago, Exly said:

No medal = no reward. 

That is the opposite of rewarding and provides more negative feedback than I think you indented to inflict.

Thats not what they mean. Rewarding doesn't simply mean everyone gets stuff. There needs to be a degree of effort behind it for something to feel rewarding. If I give everyone a cookie because they showed up all of sudden that cookie isn't really valuable or felt rewarding to get. But if I give it only to the people who earned it, then its rewarding. If you are getting stomped do you deserve having medals? Thats a question i think we and bioware need to come to a consensus on. But I do like that medals are harder to get, I think the system is really close to being good just needs tweaks. But we shouldn't go back to hey you casted 1 ability here is 5 medals. It is interesting, everyone talked about how oh bioware giving out participation trophies but then we have people struggling to get a 60k hit as dps (which is not hard). But its pretty clear that its gonna get adjusted, which is kinda part of playing an mmo.

[Blakinik]

13 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Lastly, we want players to feel as if medals are rewarding to get

Let me start off by saying I had really high hopes for PvP with the changes.  I actually looked forward to it and I am pretty anti-PvP.  Sadly, I will go back to being Anti-PvP.

Hate to break it for you, but it is not rewarding to the point that I think its a fail, border lining an Epic Fail.  It is a serious PITA.  You assume that you are geared right, know all the PvP moves, and simply PvP.  However I 99% PvE and quite truthfully don't care for PvP except for forced choices I have to do to either get companions or complete conquests.  I have no intention of going hardcore PvP.  I will not change my setups to do some arbitrary match requirement for conquest.  in fact, after this upcoming week, I think I will be finished with conquest and breathe a sigh of relief not to ever touch PvP again until next conquest season.  Here is why:

• It is not fun.  It is far too grindy.
• I don't get to pick which PvP game so I get stuck playing some random map of the day.
• Speaking of maps, add more a rotation.  I will get like Huttball and the Gree thingie and never see some other maps.  In fact, I think the capture the flag one form Lana seems to have bene retired as I haven't pointed that one in ages.
• You said you wanted to get rid of number farming - but guess what?  I might as well camp at the defend points since I am guaranteed some points and medals.  Sounds like number farming in a different way.
• While I have not seen many AFKers in the matches, It is brutal if you don't win in terms of medals allocated.  Even if you win, its far too grindy.
• Arenas and Warzones are overly lopsided one direction and not balanced.  For me, I could near close to 8 medals per arena I won.  I might get 3 for a warzone.  If lucky.  I got a few donuts if I lost.
• People are still cheating.  Imagine that.  In fact, I think its worse because since it is so lopsided for wins you have an incentive to cheat even more.

Am I saying return to ranked?  No.  Am I saying to nerf wins?  Hell no.  What I am saying is make more medals an option like below:

• Do Damage medals in terms of 1 million damage, 2.5 million damage, 5 million damage, 10 million damage, and 25 million damage.
• Do Heal medals in a ratio similar to damage.
• Do Protection medals in a ratio similar to both of the above.
• Add back some kill qualifiers like 1 kill, 5 kill, 10 kills, etc.

If you did the above, you could least get your medals for conquest.  Additionally if you do it, don't go jacking up the requirements for the PvP part of conquest to 250 medals or something utterly stupid that seems to be like "we give you 1 thing, then raise the bar 5 fold because screw you that's why!"  The added medals would be more akin to something if you are active, you can at least get some medal even if you lose.  Problem I seem to feel here is you made a system that doesn't seem like it is liked heavily by anyone and will likely end in a few weeks with less people queuing.  Even this past week, it felt like the queue times were longer than before the change.  Granted I am not sitting with a stop watch seeing how long a match pops but did seem like it was taking longer than before.

Blakinik

[Sundown]

6 hours ago, Exly said:

I wonder, do you play to win?  Do you think that they should stop having winners and losers? 

I suppose that was the person you quoted being sarcastic. At least I sure hope so. 😬

I always was of the opinion that in randomly drawn group matches the team result should not account for such a big difference in rewards, because there is only so much you can do as an individual. Right now you are rewarding large premades rolling over randoms.

As far as "objective play" is concerned: I do agree that playing objectives should be rewarded, but right now, if I decide to die of boredom guarding a node, I don't get enough medals anymore making it worth my sacrifice.