Premades are hurting pvp participation

[Bullyabass]

Most premades don't want to kill bads they want to come up against another premade because the matches are a lot more fun.

 

Yeah not this. Most premades are dps and kill farming so they VERY much want to kill less experienced players and they couldn't care less about objectives. Yes you can avoid them on some maps but often you cant so an inexperienced players warzone experience is stun, root, dead, repeat.

 

There's no reason not have two warzones queues. One stays exactly as it is just now the other is only for solo players. Queue for either or both as you prefer. If the solo queue pops take too long then take the general queue pops. If you want a premade free warzone then do your dailies while you wait for the solo pop.

 

Everyone is happy

[Amunra-amunray]

Premades are the best, I usually queue solo but if u get against a premade with a good heal/tank you can farm some nice numbers. Idk I don't see an issue with premades all that much. If they are interested in farming, you can usually win the wz cuz they won't touch objectives. I agree about the match making thing tho, it's poor and I think the issue could be improved if it was fixed. Most premades don't want to kill bads they want to come up against another premade because the matches are a lot more fun. Good players don't want to farm meat shields out of wzs imo, idk I might be wrong tho 😂😂

 

AGAIN all of you are missing the point....

 

Nothing wrong with your premade but it should be against other premades.... in a GROUP match Queue, not in a randomized queue that is given priority to groups as the developers once said is being done...

 

No reason that there shouldn't be a solo and a group match queue in all warzone....

 

Go ahead and group up with your friends but be prepared to play against others who are grouped up with their friends too.. not some easy farm matrices that his broken match queue system that was created to favor groups over solo players...

 

Solo Queue for those who rather not deal with teams or team play....

 

NO REASON at all two queues should not exist! and if you say it will slow the queues your dead wrong cause more players would return to pvp if the teams were not stacked against them constantly!

 

So again THERE should be and there is no reason to not have a SOLO and GROUP Match Queue in unranked warzones PERIOD! Balanced Fair and benefits the whole player base not just a select few!

[TmoneyTime]

AGAIN all of you are missing the point...

 

Nah bro your missing the boat entirely. Premades don't matter if skill based matchmaking would work as intended.

[Samcuu]

It's already been pointed out but the population isn't big enough to have two separate queues. The group queue would be dead so fast (see group ranked queue for evidence of this) and you'd just have ppl sync queueing and trying to get in matches together in the solo queue. Only way to eliminate it would be removing the option to queue as a group altogether. I don't think there's a good solution for it so, take matters into ur own hands. Get guud at ur class and invite other guud players you see and form ur own team. Premades aren't Killin the pvp population tho it's not like there's some super OP premade every match. Edited March 25, 2022 by Samcuu

[Bullyabass]

Premades aren't Killin the pvp population .

 

That's the whole point, they are.

 

Again, there's no reason not to have two queues. A general queue, works exactly as the queue does just now and a new, solo only, queue.

 

If you want fast pops queue for them both. If you want a premade free match just queue for the solo and do dailies while you wait.

[cjmarsh]

Again, there's no reason not to have two queues. A general queue, works exactly as the queue does just now and a new, solo only, queue.

 

The reason they only have one queue is because there's too few people doing warzones. Adding another queue would just make off-times even worse.

[Samcuu]

That's the whole point, they are.

 

Again, there's no reason not to have two queues. A general queue, works exactly as the queue does just now and a new, solo only, queue.

 

If you want fast pops queue for them both. If you want a premade free match just queue for the solo and do dailies while you wait.

 

It will die faster if you go to two queues (again see the group ranked queue for proof of that).

[ShadowLordIV]

Just bring back unranked bolster- everyone is 326. Have losses count towards daily/weekly and everyone is happy.

[Amunra-amunray]

It will die faster if you go to two queues (again see the group ranked queue for proof of that).

 

you mean group match queues may die! but there has not be any attempt to discover this and there is no proof to sustain this argument other than ranked play which died in 6.0 because of the failure to balance correct stat requirements in warzones so no one wants to play against those who abuse the way gearing is intended to work ....

 

all warzones should function exactly like they do in pve accuracy at 110% should be required to pierce armor as a dps as all players are technically champions.... and have soft caps for all mastery and critical, and what i mean is diminishing returns... not uncapped gear as you want and get the best of both worlds as a tank dps hybrid or heal/dps hybrid which most do

 

 

but to say that unranked warzones will die if there is two queues cannot truly be proven... only heresay based on a different arena of play and level of player....

 

for example people do not queue for master mode fps cause there are no skilled players attempting these instance any longer.... but Veteran FPs are non stop all the time....

Edited March 26, 2022 by Amunra-amunray

[Amunra-amunray]

The reason they only have one queue is because there's too few people doing warzones. Adding another queue would just make off-times even worse.

 

the very reason that queue do not have as many people in them even at off times is because of the one sided-ness that is group priority in unranked warzones, people would return to pvping if they knew there was a benefit to them besides getting pummeled all the time and not being able to advance the mission and being with teams who do not care to do objectives and are only there to kill kill kill.....no team play whatsoever,

[Samcuu]

you mean group match queues may die! but there has not be any attempt to discover this and there is no proof to sustain this argument other than ranked play which died in 6.0 because of the failure to balance correct stat requirements in warzones so no one wants to play against those who abuse the way gearing is intended to work ....

 

all warzones should function exactly like they do in pve accuracy at 110% should be required to pierce armor as a dps as all players are technically champions.... and have soft caps for all mastery and critical, and what i mean is diminishing returns... not uncapped gear as you want and get the best of both worlds as a tank dps hybrid or heal/dps hybrid which most do

 

 

but to say that unranked warzones will die if there is two queues cannot truly be proven... only heresay based on a different arena of play and level of player....

 

for example people do not queue for master mode fps cause there are no skilled players attempting these instance any longer.... but Veteran FPs are non stop all the time....

 

First off the pvp community has been damaged enough over the years, this idea would only hurt it further. World pvp has always been a non starter thanks to the game engine, but pvpers keep getting the short end of the stick. The pvp community likes group content, they like to pvp with friends/guildies. Losing 8 v 8 ranked was a huge blow, and basically eliminated pvp guilds. Many of the pvp community left then. A lot of the pvpers who remain now do ranked arenas, but it's a broken game mode, that's why very few ppl do the group content. The only remaining content that's viable for group pvp really is unranked warzones due to the smaller community.

 

Grouping is a major factor in warzones and helps you to win and do well at objectives. I'd much rather have players learn how to play in a premade than force them to queue solo. Healers and tanks work together, there's absolutely no reason to queue solo as a tank and I'm sure healers would love to queue solo with no guarantee of protection when they are the most focused players in the game. Warzones are group content which is designed to be a coordinated team effort. No better way to coordinated than to get into comms and form a strong group.

 

Like has been said before, the actual pvp community who are passionate about it, is small. You'd be forcing all of those ppl into one queue and it would die quickly. The reason being is that there are all sorts of different levels of players. The very skilled ones would farm the lesser skilled/geared ppl out of the queue. There's a food chain here just like in the wild. Nobody likes to constantly lose, solo players who are competent can sway the battle in an 8 v 8 match even if one premade is less skilled than another. Sometimes it falls the other way where the solo players get with a strong premade and it gets ugly, but that's just the way of pvp. Like I said before, find other players that are like minded and form ur own team to give u the best chance of winning.

[ReinhartRussian]

That is a lie. I had a few friends 5 total over last 2 months leaving because solo que is unbearable. (different servers, and countries).

 

I know for myself that I canceled my subscription. All i know is that my win rate vs solo quers is over 70% while against premades its 15-20% chance at best.

 

Premades are not fun to face against as a solo que player. They are killing the PvP que because premades are haivng fun at other player's expense. They create an unfair matchups and yes I would like to have an option to opt out of facing groups.

 

Stop leing that it is a skill or learn to play issue. It is not. Premades have better comp advantage and better coordination. Even a group of equal 4 players will face each other and 1 premade the other one is not. The voice comp, chaining CCs, swapping guards would already put a premade at a severe advantage.

 

For all that enjoy premades then all I can say enjoy your false sense of superiority in a dying game. You are part of the problem.

[Samcuu]

So when u play with ur friends (the ones who have all quit now) you never grouped up you would all just solo queue? 🤔🤔

 

First off you don't know wut ur win rate is against premades or solo queue. Just because u don't see 4 toons running around with the same guild tag doesn't mean u aren't against a premade. Like I said it's very rare to see a 4 man premade all from the same guild because pvp guilds hardly exist anymore.

 

I will never understand why ppl cry about premades. It's not some mechanic of the game that's hidden behind a pay wall or something. They have better comps and communication because they are planning and coordinating better than you, because u are just solo queueing. Go and get ur friends and give them a tough match, this option is available to everyone in game.

 

And finally just so u know, I solo queue the majority of the time. I play with other ppl very rarely in pvp. And I don't mind going against premades. Again tho, that part of it is probably a mindset thing. Idc about winning every match I just do the best I can do. I'm not trying to gear through warzones as it's a very inefficient way of gearing up.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Samcuu

[Dyne-]

https://imgur.com/a/9D5Z0Tm

 

 

Picture worth 1000 words. This is why it is aggrivating to que vs premades. They are not good players and win only by virtue of having better comp and being slightly better than average player.

 

10 Deaths and I still ran circles around terrible *** premade. We still lost because the rest 7 players could not do anything.

 

This happened 17 times in a row. I kid you not 17 losses in a row because of premades. Couple of my friends quit the game because of this, and right now more and more people that I know that are solid PvPers are completely opting out of Unranked / PvP or game in general.

 

The game right now rewards ZERG Premades not skilled gameplay.

 

I see no less than three problems here.

 

1) No one on your team can fight. (Matchmaking issue not a premade issue)

 

2) You spent the entirety of the match standing in mid AOEing with cut to pieces instead of playing huttball. Judging by that objective score you most likely only touched it long enough to throw it to someone else so you could get back to AOEing lol.

 

3) Both of your healers are terrible. They were also probably too busy healing you in mid to play huttball.

 

I'm not really surprised you lost when one team was focused on playing objectives (literally everyone on their team) and your team wasn't. Their healer has more objective points than any two players on your team combined 😂

 

I can jump on and do the pvp weekly 3 times in one day. I solo queue 99.9% of the time I play SWTOR. Premades aren't the problem. People not knowing how to PvP (fight and do objectives) is the problem.

 

I agree with the other poster. Losses should reward 1 like the GSF weekly. Bolster should be 324 / 326 instead of downgrading everyone. Problem solved. I don't see why this is too hard for Bioware to figure out.

[ReinhartRussian]

I see no less than three problems here.

 

1) No one on your team can fight. (Matchmaking issue not a premade issue)

 

2) You spent the entirety of the match standing in mid AOEing with cut to pieces instead of playing huttball. Judging by that objective score you most likely only touched it long enough to throw it to someone else so you could get back to AOEing lol.

 

3) Both of your healers are terrible. They were also probably too busy healing you in mid to play huttball.

 

I'm not really surprised you lost when one team was focused on playing objectives (literally everyone on their team) and your team wasn't. Their healer has more objective points than any two players on your team combined 😂

 

I can jump on and do the pvp weekly 3 times in one day. I solo queue 99.9% of the time I play SWTOR. Premades aren't the problem. People not knowing how to PvP (fight and do objectives) is the problem.

 

I agree with the other poster. Losses should reward 1 like the GSF weekly. Bolster should be 324 / 326 instead of downgrading everyone. Problem solved. I don't see why this is too hard for Bioware to figure out.

 

And you what Professor - X? You knew exactly what was going on?

 

Here is what happened:

THEIR TANK HELD OBJECTIVE just so they could farm numbers. The premade was literally holding other 8 players a hostage. At that point I had nothing but AOE. After dying 11 times I still outdpsed their team. Dying 11 times to a lesser players is beyond enraging especially they win because it is 4 of them.

 

 

Premades have more coodination, and better team comps. You want to argue that they had no advantage because I saw 2 DPS and a tank linning up their stuns and blow our healers?

 

Most of the premade war zone hero players are actually terrible when you catch them queing solo.

 

Please give us option to just not que into premades. I do not mind waiting extra 10 - 30 minutes knowing I get to enjoy a non 1 sided match up.

 

YES MATCH MAKING is garbage in this game. Premades make it a whole lot worse.

[Bullyabass]

I don't believe a "solo only" queue would harm queue times. Certainly no more than premades which can clear out the queue and discourage people from even trying PVP

 

And if "solo only" isn't popping then people can still queue in the "normal" queue

 

One easy way to find out though

[Amunra-amunray]

Only the proponents of existing abused group priority system do not want this change... not anyone who can provide evidence that two queues would cause any real issues except balancing the queues to groups and play as it should be not counter or overweighed queues as they exist now....

 

What is the harm in implementing it and see how it progresses...

 

The premies want to keep it this way cause they can continue to win farm those who are there just to get frags and learn and etc... and more....

 

It should be put to a majority vote... but SWTOR including its paying subscribers in decisions is ludacris!

[Floplag]

Only the proponents of existing abused group priority system do not want this change... not anyone who can provide evidence that two queues would cause any real issues except balancing the queues to groups and play as it should be not counter or overweighed queues as they exist now....

 

What is the harm in implementing it and see how it progresses...

 

The premies want to keep it this way cause they can continue to win farm those who are there just to get frags and learn and etc... and more....

 

It should be put to a majority vote... but SWTOR including its paying subscribers in decisions is ludacris!

 

This isnt true at all.

I agree with them matching against each other, I believe that regs should have a solo and group queue as ranked does and still include the 8 man maps, but you have to be realistic and practical.

Logic tells us that if you split a 50 person queue into two different queues it will increase queue times, how much is debatable but we dont have the player base to assume it wont affect it at all.

The harm is driving more people away due to longer queue times.

This has to come from their match making, not separating the queues, unless or until the population grows to support multiple queues.

[Samcuu]

 

The premies want to keep it this way cause they can continue to win farm those who are there just to get frags and learn and etc... and more....

 

 

Yes the people who are smarter in using the mechanics of the game, and grouping up in an MMO for group content (imagine that lolol) in order to coordinate better and be better at the game, want to keep winning against the ppl who don't want to take the time to do so and want to be casual about it. You are completely correct 😂😂

[Toonicker]

I honestly don't think they'll ever fix this, suggested match making upgrades probably isn't in the budget for this MMO, and the so called die hard PVPers who like having the easy victims and wins around don't want solo Que's, pretty big chance it's gonna stay the way it is anyways. Pretty soon it's going to only be the die hard PVPers in the que's anyway.

 

Me personally I love PVP, I simply don't much care for it in SWTOR which is why I've turned to GSF. now that's fun!

 

The best way to fix this is to just give half token credit to the losers or something like that because a reprogram of the current match making system as amazing as that would be is not likely going to happen.

[Amunra-amunray]

I honestly don't think they'll ever fix this, suggested match making upgrades probably isn't in the budget for this MMO, and the so called die hard PVPers who like having the easy victims and wins around don't want solo Que's, pretty big chance it's gonna stay the way it is anyways. Pretty soon it's going to only be the die hard PVPers in the que's anyway.

 

Me personally I love PVP, I simply don't much care for it in SWTOR which is why I've turned to GSF. now that's fun!

 

The best way to fix this is to just give half token credit to the losers or something like that because a reprogram of the current match making system as amazing as that would be is not likely going to happen.

 

I too find GSF quite satisfying... but imagine more of a challenge when other understand the pvp gearin mechanisms over pve gearing and when to break the stat rules

 

But easy farming also places conquest points one sided...

 

Much has to be considered to really improve warzones...

[Toonicker]

I too find GSF quite satisfying... but imagine more of a challenge when other understand the pvp gearin mechanisms over pve gearing and when to break the stat rules

 

But easy farming also places conquest points one sided...

 

Much has to be considered to really improve warzones...

 

SWTOR has potentially fun PVP I agree, I'm just not getting any enjoyment out of it right now. I will point out that the fun times I have is with friends but most of them have given up on it and I mean we never really played that often together anyway. So I totally get the argument of wanting to group with friends.

[Sounders_Fan]

Only the proponents of existing abused group priority system do not want this change... not anyone who can provide evidence that two queues would cause any real issues except balancing the queues to groups and play as it should be not counter or overweighed queues as they exist now....

 

What is the harm in implementing it and see how it progresses...

 

The premies want to keep it this way cause they can continue to win farm those who are there just to get frags and learn and etc... and more....

 

It should be put to a majority vote... but SWTOR including its paying subscribers in decisions is ludacris!

 

this is hypocritical. you claim that those that have expressed a different point of view don't have any evidence to support their position. but guess what; you have presented no empirical evidence either.

[Amunra-amunray]

this is hypocritical. you claim that those that have expressed a different point of view don't have any evidence to support their position. but guess what; you have presented no empirical evidence either.

 

I have the devs have said it repeatedly... groups are given priority in unranked match queues... that is proof and evidence enough

[snave]

I have the devs have said it repeatedly... groups are given priority in unranked match queues... that is proof and evidence enough

 

Can you supply the links to this please?

 

Splitting the queues will obviously increase queue times for players in both queues. I'd like it if the game prioritised premade vs premade more than it currently does, but splitting into solo and group benefits neither groups of players.

 

MMO's are designed to be played in a group. I understand lots of players (the majority in fact), play primarily solo, but most game modes, Operations, Flashpoints, Arena, Warzones, are designed to be played as a group with the intent that you work with other players towards a common goal. Being able to play through these game modes in some form of solo capacity is there as a convenience, not as the pinnacle of the game mode itself.

 

As has been said over and over in this thread, the problem lies with match making, and players unwillingness to take any initiative themselves to solve their own problems.