Jedi Sentinel Feedback

[Nepthen]

I've decided to add some more because I didn't answer everything. Again, Watchman perspective.

 

For Sentinels, Contemplation should just be baseline. I equate it to the fact that commandos can heal themselves or others to get their 10 stacks of Supercharge Cell before every pull. Let Sentinels/Maras do the same.

 

What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?

Dual wielding, Force Camo, Guarded by the Force as well as the ability to have extremely good sustained DPS while sacrificing burst AOE.

 

Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?

Yes, everything melted no matter the choice. The overall rotation and playstyle while out in the world hasn't changed.

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

 

It's worrying that there hasn't been a lot of back and forth between BioWare and those of us posting. The fact that the Jedi Guardian feedback post has been un-stickied doesn't help much. Have we already moved on from the Guardian? I will say that the Guardian thread should be updated with actual information for all three specs, to copy what was done for Sentinel. Anyway, looking at the first two classes revealed, I'm puzzled that there doesn't appear to be any theme associated with the choices at the varying levels. I find that strange to say the least. I think things are best when stuff appears to line up across all the specs, with tiny differences here and there. I'm 100% admitting this may just be my OCD talking here!

 

For example:

At level 10, all three specs for Sentinel get a new ability (Zen plus either Force Melt, Lance, or Focused Burst).

At level 10, all three specs for Guardian also get new abilities (Plasma Brand, Warding Strike, or Focused Burst).

This is all good. I expect every class will have a new ability at level 10 just like they do now.

 

Things then veer off a bit:

At level 15 for Sentinel, all three specs then choose a passive to tweak the ability they just got 5 levels ago (nevermind that heightened power for Concentration is currently a passive at level 40 but I digress)

At level 15 for Guardian, all three specs instead have a choice between some passives / active abilities (I'll get to this later). Guardians don't get to tweak their level 10 abilities until level 25. In my opinion, the Guardian setup is better because you're allowing the player to use their level 10 ability longer before they are asked to adjust it.

 

Zooming out here... this appears to be the breakdown for Sentinels:

Level 10, new discipline ability (lines up with level 10 on live)

Level 15, choices for the level 10 ability

Level 20, choices between 2 passives or 1 active.

Level 25, new discipline ability (level 26 on live)

Level 30, choices for level 25 ability

Level 35, choices between 2 passives and 1 active

Level 40, new discipline ability (level 42 on live)

Level 45, new class ability (twin saber throw for Sentinels)

Level 50, choice between 3 passives

Level 55, new discipline ability (level 58 on live)

Level 60, choice between 3 passives

Level 65, new class ability

Level 70, choice between 3 defensive active abilities

Level 75, new class ability

Level 80, choice between 3 passives

 

I am 100% against the choices between passives and active abilities, unless it falls in line with Watchman Sentinel's choice at 30 where they can choose to tweak Cauterize with 2 different passives or replace it with another active ability called Force Lash. That is a good choice between actives and passives because it doesn't affect the max number of abilities a spec can have. I actually really like this idea. It has the chance to change how a spec plays or just tweak it a little. In the above outline for Watchman, at level 20 Transcendence should be baseline and then Force Clarity should be baseline at level 35.

 

I'm not a fan of getting a new discipline ability and then 5 levels later, being asked to tweak it. Let the player spend some time with the ability before you're asked to change how it works, even if it just another 5 levels.

 

Level 70 is a touchy one, as you're asking players to choose between three active defensive abilities, most of which have been here since launch. This needs to be reworked and I'm not sure the best way how. In my opinion, you are taking a cheap way out of pruning abilities without directly pruning them. All of the abilities are still in the game but you just can't use them at the same time. That's terrible. The only thing I can think of us that there needs to be some kind of baseline level of how many defensives is too many? I already said for Sentinels if we have to choose, let us choose between Guarded, Blade Blitz, and Saber Ward, not Force Camo as threat drops should be baseline. This is a really tough one... the only choice I could come up with is to have three defensives in this row to choose from and one of them may actually be a new ability for tank disciplines if needed. Sentinels losing 2 defensives is easier to swallow than a tank losing 2 defensives. Again, the biggest question here is how many active defensive abilities should a DPS / Healer / Tank have? This is important.

 

One last thing I'd like to say is that there is an opportunity here to make these talent choices even better (yes, no matter how you sell it, this is WoW's talent system). The opportunity would be to separate out the PvP choices into their own category that is only active while flagged or during warzones. If you're going to borrow stuff from WoW, might as well go the whole way. PvE wise, the choices that are PvP focused will never be picked. I'd also question how often they'd be chosen during actual PvP considering the alternative choices are so much better for survivability and overall damage (adamant is PvP but defensive roll is so much better).

 

I'm really really anxious to seeing the UI for this. That is something I hope we get to look at soon. It's very difficult to see the entire path of a discipline when you can't check what additional passives you pick up along the way while leveling, if any.

 

I really hope this helps.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Luckily I got to test the setups on PTS now as well, focussing on Watchman, which is the spec I had been maining from shortly after launch until I stopped doing semi-progress raiding after 5.X.

 

Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?

 

WATCHMAN LOADOUT B:

Firstly I really like the option of turning Cauterize into a direct force attack on Watchman loadout . That loadout worked brilliantly for me, especially when doing dailys, which needs more direct attacks than dots. It also made for a dynamic rotation on stronger enemies (like the golden mandalorian mob).

 

I couldn’t see the numbers on the new abilities, since I have my client set to German language. But from looking at opponent’s health bars, I think it works like this: Put Merciless Slash and both dots on like you would be doing on live. Then it gets interesting: As long as Force Melt is active, you prioritize „Direct Cauterize“ as number one, except for a procced Twin Saber Throw and a double procced Slash. Blade Barrage goes in the very last GCD before Force Melt is refreshed, since that’s the only GCD Force Melt is not on the target anymore. That makes for a pretty dynamic rotation similar tot he one I used to love about Watchman Sentinel until 2.x. Great fun and great design in my opinion. I am really looking forward to playing like that. As I said, this playstyle is really effective against daily mobs, where Watchman used to be clunky on live, and engaging against strong enemies.

 

WATCHMAN LOADOUT A:

Loadout [A] felt a lot like live Watchman, which I am actually not really a fan of anymore, but will be ok for all who have gotten used to that now.

 

 

What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?

 

I love Sentinel for being the iconic Star Wars class with its balance of fast paced aggressive attacks but still a kind of meditative feel of martial arts like combat attitude, especially in Watchman spec. I also like Watchman doing a tiny bit of off-healing, even though there are very few situations when that will actually make a difference in organized raiding groups, but I do like the idea of doing damage and off-healing your allies at the same time. I loved Watchman spec most when it was a jack of all trades until 2.x. with its short dots, when it didn’t really feel like a dot spec and had a very engaging playstyle that worked against weaker and stronger enemies alike if you adapted your rotation and priorities accordingly.

 

 

• Merciless Slash is actually my favourite Watchman ability. I loved it when you could use it every 4 GCDs with full stacks, even though it didn’t hit as hard. It’s still one of the best animations in the game to me.
   
   
  
• Overload Saber is just a brilliantly designed ability with its short duration and complex stacks and refresh mechanic and being off GCD but costly on resource, so you have to plan for it. Just great!
   
   
  
• Wathchman Zen boosting the dots like crazy (especially when you had to sync it whith you 3rd stack of Overload Saber before 6.0), is also signature ability for me and very satisfying to do, when you see your opponents „melt“ under those boosted dots (especially the strong short ones).
   
   
  
• I like Blade Storm a lot for just being a satisfying ablity to use, even though it’s hardly relevant for Watchman these days. It’s one of our rare 10m range abilities, which can be essential in positioning heavy fights. Which is also why I would miss Force Stasis a bit, if we do lose it, like we did with 10m „Trauma throw“ that we used to have earlier and was meant for PVP but was also a good option for fighting from a certain distance. That’s why I do hope „Direct Cauterize“ might become a 10m ability (the 100m it has now seem a little too much, even though I had great fun annoying some Onderon mobs by the lake in the south that would instantly reset - and then repeat ;-)
  

 

 

Choices

 

I think it’s a good idea to reduce the number of abilities. Better less abilities in an engaging playstyle than overflowing hotbars. However, I tend to agree with other posters that choices on one tier should be between defensive and offensive options, they should not be mixed on one tier. And I agree that DPS classes need a threat drop like Force Camouflage which I also find pretty iconic for Sents.

 

 

Other specs and loadouts

 

Combat and Concentration feel pretty much like on live.

 

Combat: The option of using critical hits to increas movement speed and later, when we can chose freely, damage of Blade Rush and Lance, is a pretty nice class mechanic.

 

Concentration: Increased options for gaining centering and focus are pretty nice, especially against daily mobs when you can’t keep up a rotation that reliantly will provide both.

 

 

For context: Watchman 2.X. is still the best Combat experience of any MMO I have played (for me other than SWTOR that’s ESO, WOW, GW2, LOTRO, FFXIV, Eve and currently BDO, which has a really revolutionary and very satisfying combat system altogether, but even that falls short of Watchman 2.X.). I didn’t mind what content SWTOR had (or didn’t have) as long as I could play 6s Merciless Slahs, 6s Cauterize proc and Overload Saber rotation on it. That even included Makeb dailies for me, which everyone else seemed to hate ;-) Even though I stopped playing actively a while ago, I never unsubbed for fond memories of Watchman combat and the hope that it might improve someday. This looks like it might and I can’t wait till it goes live in its final and hopefully well balanced form. I’m excited!

 

 

EDIT: I did a few runs of Meridian Complex solo and the first of all chapters on Veteran mode using Watchman B and Concentration B loadouts.

 

Watchman B was extremely fun and versatile to play in that slightly more difficult context as well. Since there's no Single Target Tactical that works well with Watchman B yet, I went for Thirsty Blade which moves Blade Barrage generally ahead of "Direct Cauterize". And it's actually the last two GCDs before refreshing Force Melt where you proritize other stuff over Direct Cauterize. If you're lucky to have Double Saber Throw and Slash procs ready for those two GCDs it's Rock´n`Roll, baby! :-)

 

Concentration B using Enrage Crush as a Tactical Item is some crazy AoE on mob packs!

 

Generally it will be a challenge to come up with set bonus options and Tacticals that don't push certain loadout combinations ahead of everything else. A lot of tacticals from live can't stay in my opinion. New set bonusses and Tacticals for 7.0 should probably be less impactful on rotation than before. Maybe they should instead offer defensive and QoL options: Some of the "lost" defensive abilities or some that are optional in this first PTS build but problematic, since they compete with offensive options, could move to set bonuses or tacticals: Gaining Centering on resting, Centering-free Transcendence, maybe even Inspiration (though I'm not a fan of raid buffs in general as long as not all classes can offer one). Force Camouflage needs to be baseline regardless. So tacticals and set bonuses could generally move away from offensive options, so dps players don't have to chose between offensive options (which they will and very often be made to chose) and defensive options in loadouts.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Ardarell_Solo

[Kiesu]

Devs asked for feedback on how the changes felt my feedback is that I don't like the changes and I dont' want them.

 

Nowhere in the dev post does it say that users need to armchair develop alternatives for abilities that's is your own imagination, and if you really think that they are just gonna go with a frankenstein idea someone posted on forums then I have a bridge to sell to you.

Oh yes, because the Frankenstein changes in OP are so much better. Good job making zero arguments again.

[lessandracassidy]

Good time of day.

 

I have played Watchman/Annihilation as my main class since 3.0, so I’ve been looking forward to seeing what changes are coming to my favorite class with 7.0. I’m a Hardmare raider and exclusively do PVE content with the class.

 

• What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?
  

 

These are definitely Transcendence and Force Camouflage, and to a lesser extent Guarded by the Force.

 

Level 15

 

The passives for Force Melt look interesting, but Onderon is not a good place to test them. Without the ability to enter some endgame content, wearing endgame gear, or a proper dummy parse, it’s just hard to gage the effects, because Onderon doesn’t even have enemies that survive that long to see how the class performs in a long fight.

 

On paper, Juyo Melt seems like it has the least benefits. It provides a burst of 6 GCDs to the discipline’s opening, but will likely not affect a whole Ops boss fight, even with the boost to Force Melt.

 

The other two passives, Critical Melt and Melting Center, both look interesting.

 

---

 

Level 20

 

You asked which abilities make the Sentinel unique to the players. For me, it’s definitely Transcendence and Force Camouflage. Transcendence is currently not on PTS (not that I’ve found, at least,) and it’s a little unclear from the abilities write-up if it’s now a choice or a default ability gain.

 

If it is a choice, IMO, it absolutely shouldn’t be. It has to be a default ability. It is a staple of playing a Sentinel/Marauder.

 

The upside for me is that you no longer need to choose a utility to make Transcendence into a root-breaks and that it is automatic.

 

The downside, and this is one the Big Things for me with 7.0, is that for the longest time we could choose the Masterful Tier utility, Ardor/Relentless, to make Transcendence/Predation not consume Centering/Fury and instead be an ability with a 30 second cooldown. It is, in my eyes, vital, that this option remains. Without it, this effective kills Transcendence as a raid-wide utility because for the optimal Watchman/Anni play you always use your Zen/Berserk on cooldown to maximize your DPS. Transcendence HAS to be available without Centering through some means or others, or it will no longer get used in raids.

 

---

 

Level 30

 

These passives all seem very situational.

 

The Trauma effect has recently been useful when pulling HM Apex to diminish his healing when the lights are on. If this continues to be a relevant mechanic, maybe something similar in the new upcoming Op, it’s very good to have this passive in your pocket, since Cauterize / Rupture is a rotational ability, while Leg / Crippling Slash is not.

 

---

 

Level 35

 

The Zen / Berserk window for Watchman / Anni has always been an interesting buff. It used to be that we timed it around the use for our DoTs for better performance. Currently, the consensus is that in 6.0 we use it on cooldown to maximize DPS.

 

Building Centering while Zen is active is a nice passive that increases our DPS potential, provided we will still use Zen on CD, but looking at the rest of the changes, it seems to me like we might not.

 

Maxing out Focus is practically worthless for Watchman, because out of all 3 Marauder specs it’s the one that has the least amount of energy management problems and is the easiest to recover from a mistake. An auto-crit however is a nice change and will likely require us to delay Zen to proc Merciless Slash or Force Melt if the previous passives prove worthwhile.

 

As with Level 15 choices, we just won't know until we can properly test these against endgame and/or dummy parse.

 

Once again, the wording is unclear if Force Clarity is a choice or a default ability gain. I find it curious that some of the abilities that we used to have at early levels are being reshuffled into later levels, while this ability that we currently gain at Level 73 is now available at Level 35.

 

---

 

Level 50

 

I’m a little surprised that these abilities have been moved so far up the levelling pole. Currently, you can gain Adamant and Defensive Roll as early as Level 11, and with Defensive Roll specifically it means less survivability for you while levelling, doing FPs etc. until you hit Level 50.

 

I do not love that Defensive Roll vs. Intercessor is now a choice. On a personal level, I use both these utilities on live servers currently, one for defense and one for mobility. One, as I already said, is available at Level 11 at the earliest while the other one becomes available at Level 59. Having to make a choice between taking less damage or extra maneuverability seems like apples and oranges. It doesn’t feel like a fair choice, these are very different utilities.

 

---

 

Level 70

 

I do not mind that Blade Blitz / Guarded by the Force is a choice now. It seems indicative of the larger overhaul happening with 7.0, and if we will need less defensive abilities, then so be it. We don’t know much about “loadouts” and how they will be implemented, but being able to switch between speccing into either one of these abilities between fights seems like an okay compromise to me.

 

Now, once again, it is unclear if Force Camouflage is a choice or a default ability gain. It should not be a choice. It is a staple ability for the Sentinel. Moreover, unless taunting is being significantly rebalanced for 7.0., all classed need a threat drop, and Force Camouflage is integral for that.

 

---

 

Level 80

 

I just want to say that it’s too bad that the game still can’t find a good use for the Contemplation utility. In 5.0. days we used to take it, pre-build stacks of Centering, then quickly respect into a different loadout of utilities and start the fight. (Watchman to a lesser degree than other specs.) In 6.0. abandoning your utilities removes your pre-built stacks, so no one uses it at all anymore. And it looks like it still won’t get used, because if it’s a choice between this and Stoic, people will always go for damage reduction.

[LordCamTheGreat]

You asked which abilities make the Sentinel unique to the players. For me, it’s definitely Transcendence and Force Camouflage. Transcendence is currently not on PTS (not that I’ve found, at least,) and it’s a little unclear from the abilities write-up if it’s now a choice or a default ability gain.

 

If it is a choice, IMO, it absolutely shouldn’t be. It has to be a default ability. It is a staple of playing a Sentinel/Marauder.

 

...

 

Once again, the wording is unclear if Force Clarity is a choice or a default ability gain. I find it curious that some of the abilities that we used to have at early levels are being reshuffled into later levels, while this ability that we currently gain at Level 73 is now available at Level 35.

 

...

Now, once again, it is unclear if Force Camouflage is a choice or a default ability gain. It should not be a choice. It is a staple ability for the Sentinel. Moreover, unless taunting is being significantly rebalanced for 7.0., all classed need a threat drop, and Force Camouflage is integral for that.

 

Transcendence is a choice and doesn't come with the 0 centering cost.

 

Force clarity is a choice and is not gained by default.

 

Force camouflage is a choice and is not gained by default.

 

 

The reason it seems unclear is because in the ABC system, only choices A and B are currently available to test on the PTS. The three above abilities are in the "C" category and so cannot currently be taken on PTS. They will be available once the ui for choosing abilities is finished, but until then, we can only pick A or B.

[VineyardB]

I tried out the new combat style for Jedi Sentinel, today. I went with a Combat Sentinel with loadout A because it was the most similar to my own on my main character. Upon placing my abilities in their usual slots, I noticed that Force Stasis was missing, and I did not have another stun ability to replace it. When entering combat on the dailies on Onderon, I quickly realized how much that ability was used in my own gameplay experience.

 

To answer the questions:

 

1. Strike, Blade Rush, Force Leap, Clashing Blast, Blade Barrage, Dispatch, Force Stasis, Zealous Strike, and Cyclone Slash are the abilities that I use on my hotbar for combat as a Combat Sentinel, and they make the Sentinel feel very unique and versatile. The lack of Force Stasis in the current build felt like a piece of my fighting was just gone and the flow of combat was broken.

2. For the most part, yes. The abilities are effective against enemies with the exception of no current stun ability. With the loss of both Awe and Force Stasis, there is no way to alleviate the constant damage to the player, creating a "glass cannon" effect.

 

The only real suggestion that I could make is for Sentinels to still have Force Stasis and Awe across the board as those are very important abilities for a DPS to have in general combat encounters and against bosses that don't have the resistance. My gameplay experience felt somewhat broken without it.

 

Thank you for what you are trying to do and I hope that the SWTOR team and the SWTOR Community can work together to make the combat style update the best it can be while not breaking balance.

[Sarova]

Tested out Concentration Sentinel with option A as this was the most similar to my usual Jedi Sentinel.

 

Sentinel Feedback

 

Positives:

• This time testing is way, way better than the Guardian was. I was able to complete the dailies on Onderon even with low influence C2N2 and my mount was speed level 3 (rather than slower than than my character's run speed like it was last time).
  
• Sentinel/Marauder is the class that annoys me the most because there are so many abilities to manage. Reducing them was a benefit as for the most part, I didn't miss abilities that were missing such as awe, transcendence, force clarity, leg slash HOWEVER:

 

Negatives:

• Two words: FORCE STASIS give this back immediately!! Unless you are planning on having this as an extra ability to buy/put points into (or however customising is going to work) for eventual force user customisation, this is the one ability that allows knights to stand out (same thing with force choke on warriors).
  
• Blade Blitz - I use this much more than I realised - give this back too.
  

 

Question:

Are utilities going to be a thing of the past and instead we'll have points that we can use to by custom abilities? I can see that working.

 

Summary:

I was thinking I would go into this round of testing all HATE BLAZING, however I was pleasantly surprised with the sentinel. I was far less awful than the fresh hell that was the Guardian on the PTS. I'm feel more confident with this class as a soloer & currently less inclined to rage quit**, especially if I can have a loadout that I can customise for PvP.

 

 

**(That depends on what you do to my favourite spec lightning sorc. To be continued...)

[Sambril]

One feature that has been in this game from the start is that all classes have a 4 second stun, an interrupt and a stun breaker. I bind these to the same keys on all my characters - I have at least one of every class. While not all are used in every fight, content has been designed from the start assuming that all classes have these abilities. None of these should be part of any ability pruning.

I would go further and say that no ability pruning is needed at all. For me fewer abilities means less fun. My character will have fewer options in any given fight and is likely to be more fragile with a reduction in defensives. This does not improve the game, it makes it worse.

This is a 10 year old game. It will not attract large numbers of new players no matter what you do. Resources would be better spent on improving the game for the existing player base instead of chasing some mythical market of players who are apparently discouraged from playing MMOs in general and this one in particular because they are too complicated. Dumbing down the game will just alienate a portion of your existing player base and will be unlikely to attract enough new players to compensate, let alone grow the game.

[Toraak]

-I was clearing nim ops before 3.0 was even a thing. NIce try. Also saber reflect was there since 1.0 so ops were already balanced around that.

 

-Or maybe give the feedback that certain abilities are necessary under certain circumstances and should not be touched instead of coming up with terrible frankenstein substitutes.

 

-I tanked ops before didnt lose aggro, try having better tanks.

 

-I already made my suggestions, if they wanna remove useless abilities they should remove the last ones they introduced. Press this yet another button to do 10 per cent more dmg without situational awareness or any type of decision making involved is as uninspired as it gets in terms of abilities, even more than giving everyone a reflect or a teleport, instead they remove abilities that have been in the game since 1.0

 

Actually reflect came out in 2.0 with the Makeb expansion. The 1st class that got a reflect was the Jug class back then. It was a level 51 ability when it first came out.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Toraak

[Linuxliner]

My very first class I played and still semi-actively play was a Carnage Marauder (Imperial mirror class of the Sentinel here), and I'm pleasantly surprised at the changes proposed here. I'll be answering both the feedback questions specifically asked about the Sentinel and also the high-level Guardian questions but reframed to be about the Sentinel.

 

I only seriously tested the Combat Sentinel (both A and B) as that's the class I'm most familiar with, and tried Concentration B (for every other class I'd have to learn the rotation on the live server first to get an accurate comparison/impression).

 

Reframed Guardian questions:

 

 

• Does this feel like a Jedi Sentinel? Please explain why or why not.
   
  It does, especially Combat B feels like the Sentinel that I'd much rather have on live than what's currently there. The Sentinel always felt like the "fragile speedster" in comparison to the Guardian. Much faster, but also much more squishy.
  Truth be told I've always felt a disconnect between the Sentinel as it is live and the fantasy that I buy into when I want to play a Sentinel. It feels like Sentinels don't do that much more damage than the Guardians do, for the trade off that they have far less survivability. The PTS versions of the Carnage and Concentration Sentinel finally feel right.
  TL;DR: It feels more like a Sentinel than the version on the live servers.
   
   
  
• Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
   
  Yes, the lack of Force Stasis feels off, but I've heard that was a mistake and that every Sentinel is supposed to have Force Stasis and you just "forgot" to include it. (Because it would also mean that my Marauder lady over in the Empire would lose her ability to go Darth Vader on people and if that happens I'm cancelling my sub. I'm not gonna play a Sith that can't choke or fry someone at will.)
  Otherwise, I acutely felt the lack of Force Camouflage in the builds that it was missing in. Part of that "fragile speedster" thing I mentioned, it feels incredibly odd to not be able to skip a few mobs once in a while with timed Camo usage. Like, I'd give up Dual Saber Throw for Force Camo. That's how important it feels for me. Choosing between it and Guarded By The Force or Blade Blitz will be ridiculously easy.
   
   
  
• What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Sentinel against enemies?
   
  I soloed the Red Reaper on Veteran and I'm quite pleased with the results. Combat B feels a lot better than Combat A but both are effective. Sorry for escaping Onderon by the way, but it's not a place I am particularly familiar with compared to the Red Reaper.
  As for Concentration B, it's certainly effective and I feel like it's got some potential for truly ridiculous burst damage, yet I'm sadly not experienced enough with the class to get it into its full potential.
   
   
  
• How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
   
  I already said that I'm enjoying Combat B in particular much more than the Sentinel that's currently live. Combat A is fine, but B is just beautiful. It just feels fluid, weaving my way through enemies and slicing them apart with incredibly rapid strikes.
  

 

 

Sentinel Questions:

 

 

1. What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?
    
   Transcendence, Force Camouflage, Rebuke. My fantasy of playing the Sentinel involves me ducking and weaving through my enemies. The fights are always rapid and well chosen, and once it starts it doesn't end until one side ends up dead.
   Current live Transcendence with all associated utilities is perfect for this, as it gives a massive movement speed boost that I can just pop on a 30 second cooldown, and I very much missed it during this round of PTS testing. I do have to mention that the Ardor utility is incredibly important for this, because all Sentinels have to use all of their Centering for Zen. If Transcendence costs Centering, it might as well not exist because the opportunity cost is far too high.
   Force Camouflage just helps with the "choosing your fight" fantasy, and also makes it feel like the Sentinel is much more attuned to the Force than the Guardian. Sure, its abilities are already much more force-based than saber-based, at least when compared to the Guardian, but Camouflage just adds that little bit of flair on top of it.
   Rebuke is also rooted in the fantasy, but at a different point. Reflecting damage, no matter how minuscule, is exactly the kind of playstyle that I like to imagine with a Sentinel. Always racing on the razor's edge of doom, and coming out on top because of it, not in spite of it. Just like the reason most fantasy games give their berserkers some kind of damage reflect/return. It incentivizes high-risk gameplay, and Sentinel (the pure DPS melee class) is all about the risk/reward.
    
    
   
2. Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?
    
   I soloed the Red Reaper on Veteran and I'm quite pleased with the results. Combat B feels a lot better than Combat A but both are effective. Sorry for escaping Onderon by the way, but it's not a place I am particularly familiar with compared to the Red Reaper.
   As for Concentration B, it's certainly effective and I feel like it's got some potential for truly ridiculous burst damage, yet I'm sadly not experienced enough with the class to get it into its full potential.
   

 

 

 

As an aside, I've already mentioned this in the "What makes this class unique" section, but I cannot understate how important it is to make Transcendence not use any Centering whatsoever (i.e. it comes with the Ardor utility already permanently integrated). All Sentinels must use all of their Centering for Zen, and an Ability that cannot be used (or is even actively detrimental to use because of the opportunity cost) might as well not exist.

 

Also, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, just unconditionally give us the Contemplation passive (Resting gives Centering) instead of making us pick between it and other abilities. At this point, it's purely a quality of life improvement that no one would choose because the other PvE option (2% DR and better mid-fight Centering management) actually gives in-fight benefits. I can't judge the other lvl 80 option because snares are almost 100% useless in PvE and I don't play PvP.

 

To end this on a positive note, I can't help but start theory-crafting when I see the Combat options that weren't available on this build of the PTS: Driving Lance, Rush Down, Transcendence (+Swiftness). Even if it ends up being a complete meme, I really want to try a "drive-by" Sentinel build because that's just my playstyle fantasy when I choose the Combat Sentinel. Speed not just for speed's sake, but actively boosting combat DPS.

Only Combat gives me this ridiculous 30% alacrity boost, and if Combat also added a damage boost based on my current movement speed on top of it, that's basically a dream come true no matter how "bad" it ends up being. Turning Transcendence into an incredibly niche offensive cooldown sounds so much like a Combat Sentinel thing and I AM HERE FOR IT.

 

(Seriously, Combat B and the not-available options for Combat look like so much fun and I can't wait to be able to freely choose from this tree.)

 

EDIT: I completely forgot to mention this, but we really do need a better way to gear up, especially if we're going to be doing this for 18 more disciplines. I propose a vendor with the following items for sale:

 

 

• Superior Versatile Armoring 80
  
• Superior Resistive Armoring 80
  
• Superior Versatile Hilt 80
  
• Superior Resistive Hilt 80
  
• Superior Lethal Mod 80
  
• Superior Lethal Mod 80B
  
• Superior Warding Mod 80
  
• Superior Warding Mod 80B
  
• Superior Adept Enhancement 80
  
• Superior Nimble Enhancement 80
  
• Superior Initiative Enhancement 80
  
• Superior Steadfast Enhancement 80
  
• Superior Vigilant Enhancement 80
  
• Augmentation Kit MK-11 (Augments aren't strictly necessary, but I included them for completeness)
  
• the 7 blue IR276 augments (they end with "Augment 73")
  
• the 7 gold IR300 augments (they end with "Augment 77")
  

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Linuxliner
Forgot to add an important, specific QoL proposal that would make testing far easier

[Cavtarus]

One feature that has been in this game from the start is that all classes have a 4 second stun, an interrupt and a stun breaker. I bind these to the same keys on all my characters - I have at least one of every class. While not all are used in every fight, content has been designed from the start assuming that all classes have these abilities. None of these should be part of any ability pruning.

Guardian DPS and Sentinels didn't have a 4 second stun until 3.0. All they had was a 3 second channel that also stunned the target and they were fine, the game was honestly better with less stuns. Mercs didn't have an interrupt until, when, 1.2? I don't get the interrupt and stun break points since they are still there.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Cavtarus

[Sambril]

Guardian DPS and Sentinels didn't have a 4 second stun until 3.0. All they had was a 3 second channel that also stunned the target and they were fine, the game was honestly better with less stuns. Mercs didn't have an interrupt until, when, 1.2? I don't get the interrupt and stun break points since they are still there.

 

Thanks for your reply. I was considering Force Stasis as the stun equivalent (mine says 4 sec, was it not always?) - sure as channeled it is different to the instant stuns of others, but it still should be a given, not one of the ability choices.

I will have to check out your point on Mercenary, but it is possible. In any case we will see what is in store for that class when its time comes on PTS.

I mentioned the interrupt and stun break because they were absent from the Guardian during the first round of testing on PTS and there was some comment on changes to that aspect of the game, however you are correct in that both are present on the Sentinel as we now see it. I suppose my comments would have been better placed in a general feedback thread rather than this Sentinel focused one.

[Shadowmoth]

What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?

 

 

Unique Sentinel abilities:

Transendence, force camouflage, Rebuke, Zen, Inspiration, twin saber throw.

(blade blitz in brackets as the gaurdian has it too).

 

For me the Jedi Sentinel is the combination betwenn mobility/speed, dps an wielding two lightsabers. Besides dealing dps obviously this includes Force charge, blade blitz and transcendence for quick target switching.

As the Sentinel not being "tanky" with medium armor I find it highly rewarding to use the right defensive CD at the right time, mainly in higher raid content. Disregarding the passive healing while applying dots with watchman-spec, the class does not have any off-heals thats why imo the defensives are clearly needed and are part of the fun.

That being said having to choose between them and only having force camouflage, blade blitz or guarded by the force is not fun.

 

Transcendence not only is a good raid utility but for me also a quality of life skill to move faster when playing solo (as is blade blitz^^). And if the requirement for using Transcendence is 30 stacks of centering, there is no use to it as any dps will always choose Zen obviously.

 

Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?

 

On PTS I did the onderon dailys with both loadouts of Watchman, dps-wise both felt effective against Onderon enemies.

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

 

Loadout A Watchman:

the quadruple dot- damage of force rend under zen and building focus with zen was fun.

Missed Transcendence, force camouflage and blade blitz. Couldn´t use descent of the fearless as force clraity was missing - got kind of used on live in having it in the rotation. the only remotly good Set bonus was Perfect form.

 

Loadout B Watchman:

Not having cauterize needs getting used to. But having the alternative with force lash as a direct attack may speed ab the time to kill enemies with not much health, therefore beeing better suited for solo content.

 

 

All in all Combat styles seem interesting, mainly the different kind of offensive playstyles.

What I don´t like at all like is having to choose between defensive CDs. As an active raider I can´t see (yet) how this will work out. And I think having to change the loadout for every single boss encounter, might be slightly annonying.

 

Last but not least: don´t make us choose between using Transcendence or Zen.

[JackieKo]

Hi all,

 

Just like with PTS for the Jedi Guardian, we are going through the feedback thread and compiling the feedback we are receiving. Again, we appreciate everyone who has been providing constructive feedback and answering the questions listed in the feedback thread.

 

As we have expressed in the past, these ability paths are not set in stone. Our focus for these phases of PTS is to understand what abilities and what experiences make these classes unique to our players. This is why we allow access to players this early in development, so we can receive feedback and ensure that we are building a solid foundation for future content.

 

Here are common sentiments that we are seeing:

 

• This does not feel like a Sentinel if players must choose between Blade Blitz, Transcendence and Force Camouflage
  
• The absence of Force Stasis and Awe was very noticeable
  
• Mobility and speed are vital to Sentinel
  

General note about PTS experience:

 

We did see a few comments about the mount provided being too slow. Because character copy is not available at this time, Legacy Perks are not carried over into PTS, so at this time Speeder Piloting IV and V are not available.

 

We’ll have more to share on the next phase of PTS soon. Please continue to provide feedback in the respective threads, so we are able to track it and consolidate it.

 

Jackie

[Sarova]

We did see a few comments about the mount provided being too slow. Because character copy is not available at this time, Legacy Perks are not carried over into PTS, so at this time Speeder Piloting IV and V are not available.

Hi Jackie, I'm wondering if there is a bug with mounts on the PTS which happens if you use your reward mounts and companions from the mail. Last time when I tried out the Guardian, I collected my mail first which included several mounts & the items to unlock various companions. I used all of these before I went to Onderon. When I finally got to Onderon, I didn't get C2N2 and my mount speed was slower than speed 1.

This time on the Sentinel, I ignored my mail and when to Onderon as soon as I'd chosen my spec and gear. I unlocked C2N2 & the mount as soon as I got there. The mount worked at speed 3 and C2N2 was also immediately boosted in influence level.

[FlameYOL]

Hi Jackie, I'm wondering if there is a bug with mounts on the PTS which happens if you use your reward mounts and companions from the mail. Last time when I tried out the Guardian, I collected my mail first which included several mounts & the items to unlock various companions. I used all of these before I went to Onderon. When I finally got to Onderon, I didn't get C2N2 and my mount speed was slower than speed 1.

This time on the Sentinel, I ignored my mail and when to Onderon as soon as I'd chosen my spec and gear. I unlocked C2N2 & the mount as soon as I got there. The mount worked at speed 3 and C2N2 was also immediately boosted in influence level.

 

Ah so I wasn't going crazy and my mount wasn't the only one going slower than walking speed. I shall try acquiring the items only when I go to Onderon next PTS cycle.

[NeoBlakkrstal]

This whole thing is a Farce. Dumbing down the game in an effort to make it noob friendly is going to alienate the loyal player base. Removing and pruning abilities that we have come to rely on is not how you "improve" the game. I just hope that the Devs realize this, and correct this error before it is too late.

[Ardarell_Solo]

This whole thing is a Farce. Dumbing down the game in an effort to make it noob friendly is going to alienate the loyal player base. Removing and pruning abilities that we have come to rely on is not how you "improve" the game. I just hope that the Devs realize this, and correct this error before it is too late.

 

You're contradicting yourself. The game is becoming less noob friendly by reducing abilities that are widely used to cheese otherwise interesting mechanics in PVE and making PVP an evasion fest with ridiculously long TTK. If you really don't consider yourself a "noob" (as most people don't when they use that term in a dismissive way of referring to their fellow players) you are surely up to the challenge.

[arunav]

This whole thing is a Farce. Dumbing down the game in an effort to make it noob friendly is going to alienate the loyal player base. Removing and pruning abilities that we have come to rely on is not how you "improve" the game. I just hope that the Devs realize this, and correct this error before it is too late.

 

Seems like a calculated risk on BW's part, i.e., the "loyal player base" is generating less and less revenue, and perhaps the newer players who seem to spend the most on SWTOR prefer less options in combat (though how this is a problem, given how little is asked of the player to complete story content and SM FPs, baffles me). Or it's a directive from some EA higher-up who doesn't understand why people play or enjoy SWTOR and wants the game simplified for different player audiences (potentially non-PC, though obviously there's no indication of non-PC platforms for SWTOR yet).

 

Otherwise, the proposed changes just don't make sense, at least to me. Certainly, the reasons given from BW so far aren't believable - almost all the abilities they are citing as problematic now have been in the game since 1.x or 2.x for Knight classes, with the exception of Blade Blitz, which was added in 4.0 if I remember correctly. The overwhelming majority of what's being made into choices or taken out entirely was in the 1.0 launch game.

 

I'm glad there's at least a yellow BW post acknowledging a summary of feedback from players for each advanced class so far, but this could easily be PR and not much else.

 

Overall, I'm reminded of a phrase: "I've got a bad feeling about this."

Edited August 12, 2021 by arunav

[Sarova]

Ah so I wasn't going crazy and my mount wasn't the only one going slower than walking speed. I shall try acquiring the items only when I go to Onderon next PTS cycle.

Glad my post was helpful

 

This whole thing is a Farce. Dumbing down the game in an effort to make it noob friendly is going to alienate the loyal player base. Removing and pruning abilities that we have come to rely on is not how you "improve" the game. I just hope that the Devs realize this, and correct this error before it is too late.

This thread is for CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK. This post adds nothing. Have you even been on the PTS? Have you tried both the Guardian (previous) and Sentinel (current)?

I'm encouraged that our feedback seems to be taken into consideration. And we don't know how the final customisation abilities or loadouts will work.

Also, most people who try out the PTS are the loyal player base and have been with SWTOR for years.

[bryanskrantz]

This whole thing is a Farce. Dumbing down the game in an effort to make it noob friendly is going to alienate the loyal player base. Removing and pruning abilities that we have come to rely on is not how you "improve" the game. I just hope that the Devs realize this, and correct this error before it is too late.

 

Yea that whole entire statement is wrong. Business 101 says you want more revenue you try and get as many new players as you can. We're all just going to have to get used to loadouts. Besides this is a feedback forum for the jedi sentinal you want to air your grievances, make a new thread.

[DjiiniTwo]

Also, most people who try out the PTS are the loyal player base and have been with SWTOR for years.

 

And MOST of the veterans who are giving feedback over it, here in this forum, are saying it is a bad idea, for numerous reasons. Mine being that there's no way in actual hell they're going to rebalance the game to compensate for the changes in anything resembling a timely manner.

 

Not that they're going to renege on this--that's also never going to happen--but I think all of the people telling them this idea was bad have an absolute right to go on doing that, and when it inevitably is bad (and I do mean inevitably, based on 10 years of experience with this game), they will get to go 'ah, see, I knew it' and be correct in that, as it will be the only solace they have from Bioware doing their damnedest to make the game for babies.

Edited August 12, 2021 by DjiiniTwo

[Sarova]

And MOST of the veterans who are giving feedback over it, here in this forum, are saying it is a bad idea, for numerous reasons. Mine being that there's no way in actual hell they're going to rebalance the game to compensate for the changes in anything resembling a timely manner.

 

Not that they're going to renege on this--that's also never going to happen--but I think all of the people telling them this idea was bad have an absolute right to go on doing that, and when it inevitably is bad (and I do mean inevitably, based on 10 years of experience with this game), they will get to go 'ah, see, I knew it' and be correct in that, as it will be the only solace they have from Bioware doing their damnedest to make the game for babies.

If the changes stay as is, I can see this affecting raiders and ranked PvPers but it will not affect solo-story players like me. BUT I don't think it will stay like this. I think they are working out the base abilities for each spec and adjusting based on our feedback (I hope) and will then allow us to add abilities we want from a limited/select few. I don't think we'll be seeing 7.0 until at least December and this gives them plenty of time to make changes.

 

I've already fed back that the way they did the Guardian was awful, however the Sentinel I thought was much better even though it lacked a couple of abilities that made the spec unique. They've acknowledged our feedback on that already.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hi Jackie, I'm wondering if there is a bug with mounts on the PTS which happens if you use your reward mounts and companions from the mail. Last time when I tried out the Guardian, I collected my mail first which included several mounts & the items to unlock various companions. I used all of these before I went to Onderon. When I finally got to Onderon, I didn't get C2N2 and my mount speed was slower than speed 1.

This time on the Sentinel, I ignored my mail and when to Onderon as soon as I'd chosen my spec and gear. I unlocked C2N2 & the mount as soon as I got there. The mount worked at speed 3 and C2N2 was also immediately boosted in influence level.

 

Hi Jackie,

I also had the same issue with the mount speed being slower than speeder 1 lvl. It was literally faster to run than get on my speeder. If this is a bug because I didn’t go to Onderon, then so be it, but it would be good to know for future pts iterations.

If it’s not a bug, is there a chance BioWare could just enable speeder bike lvl 3 riding for all speeders and companion when we travel to the fleet the first time? Because I find testing on Onderon less optimal than testing in harder content like veteran / master mode flash points

Edited August 12, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Opiklo]

You're contradicting yourself. The game is becoming less noob friendly by reducing abilities that are widely used to cheese otherwise interesting mechanics in PVE and making PVP an evasion fest with ridiculously long TTK. If you really don't consider yourself a "noob" (as most people don't when they use that term in a dismissive way of referring to their fellow players) you are surely up to the challenge.

 

hello fellow alderaanian jawa!

 

as they have already stated, that certain fights will be adjusted due to the removal of abilities, there is nothing wrong with his statement.

pvp doesnt have a ridicoulous high ttk. what is not noob friendly with having less abilities to keep track of?

how is the removal of def cds making pvp not less skill based?

if it is only who hits the hardest its really dumbing it down. burst will reign even more supreme.

try going into pvp against a 3 burst specs premade and tell me ttk is high. and with less def cds and escapes regs will become unplayable.

 

sorry my bobo boris... but you are on the holzweg

 

<3

Edited August 12, 2021 by Opiklo