Jedi Sentinel Feedback

[JackieKo]

 

Both loadouts for concentration were missing transcendence, and the hard stun. Plus other abilities.

 

Hi LD_Little_Dragon,

 

Hard stun should be available. There is a known issue that if abilities appear to be missing, speaking with the droid a second time will grant all abilities.

[Crystal_Mind]

Hi LD_Little_Dragon,

 

Hard stun should be available. There is a known issue that if abilities appear to be missing, speaking with the droid a second time will grant all abilities.

 

Jackie,

It may (hopefully) be an oversight, but like LD says, I think Force Stasis might actually be missing from this build. My protocol for checking loadouts on PTS has been to talk to the droid twice and then relog, but I haven't seen Force Stasis on any of them. I also haven't heard anyone else say they have it.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Jackie,

It may (hopefully) be an oversight, but like LD says, I think Force Stasis might actually be missing from this build. My protocol for checking loadouts on PTS has been to talk to the droid twice and then relog, but I haven't seen Force Stasis on any of them. I also haven't heard anyone else say they have it.

 

Gonna echo this. I've talked to the droid several times, Force Stasis has never shown up in my ability list.

[NicoleMay]

I think this comment I saw on reddit describes our issue with ability pruning well.

 

"I enjoy the fact that I have abilities to choose from in any given situation. I'm not over-powered by any means, but I have some nice utility that makes me feel not only useful, but grounded in what my character is"

 

Choice. We want the choice to fit any situation. Each ability has it's use. Forcing us to chose between being good in one situation and bad in another is awful game design, when we already have the ability to utilize different abilities in different situations.

 

Need to speed on out of the way of some enemies or they are in a line? Blade dash.

Need to stealth past this troublesome mob or self cleanse? Force camo.

Need to buff your damage during raid buffs? Force clarity. And to add to that, RAID BUFF.

 

Don't make us chose between these situations. Every class and discipline has it's strengths and weaknesses, and these abilities with fair cooldowns help balance their weaknesses for those moments you absolutely need them.

[DamzTheShadow]

so i tried a bit PTS last night, but it seems there may be something weird. took both combat spec A and B, they have identical stuff on. (they do have interrupt but none of them has transcendence) swapped then to concentration and watchman, it still shows passives from combat spec (like stuff for lance and blade rush) in the Abilities window.

It also seems to mix stuff. Like I was in Watchman spec, then went on concentration, and the Force Lash ability (one that replaces Cauterize) stayed on me, also stayed when i swapped again to combat.

[Tanitha]

I just tried the sentinel on the PTS choosing Watchman Path A.

 

1. The Good: This actually feels like a sentinel much more than 6.0 does. I enjoyed playing sentinel here more than I do on 6.0, and Watchman Sentinel is my main choice. I also like the new font for the codex entries etc., it actually looks much neater and more readable.
   Force Clarity & Blade Blitz: When playing now as sentinels in the main game, we are forced to use force clarity to increase dps. However, when trying on the PTS I did not miss force clarity, it was actually much easier and much better to play without it. This is one power I can do without. Same for Blade Blitz: another power I did not miss at all and can actually do without.
   
2. The bad: Transcendence and Force Camouflage: I really really missed those abilities. Please bring them back. Those two abilities are part of sentinels, they are at the core. I always hit transcendence to go a bit faster (even when solo playing); using force camo to avoid a nearby enemy when soloing stuff or just using it to cleanse. I actually was trying to hit my transcendence and my force camo button (to no avail of course!)
   

Edited July 30, 2021 by Tanitha

[Stookydroid]

please don't have a choice between your class's raid buff, one of your main DCDs, and a significant damage ability

forcing players to choose between crucial abilities in different categories is very bad. this causes players to lose out on what the class is supposed to be doing baseline. no one wants to lose 1k dps to provide a raid buff to the group. this is not a choice players should have to make.

raid buffs should be baseline on any class. giving up personal damage for group utility will lead to conflict in groups, and the person losing damage to provide a buff does not feel very good

as for undying, this is one of the main dcd abilities marauders have. putting this in the same choice slot as your raid buff and a core damage boost means marauders in pve will NEVER have access to this ability

 

more abilities overall should be baseline. it seems like the attempt is to "simplify" the game by having less abilities, but making new players have to read 3 abilities and pick between them isn't exactly simple for them.

choices between different dps abilities, such as AoE vs single target is ok.

having to choose between dps, utility, and a defensive is not.

[andveryginger]

I've been playing a Combat Sent since launch. I remember tanking with my sentinel; being able to choose my combat style; and I still miss choosing advanced classes at level 10. In short, I'm the cranky old gal yelling at the young whippersnappers to get off her lawn. The proposed changes are distinct and I am more than a bit wary. That I am also a Galaxies refugee doesn't help alleviate that.

 

Loadout choice at the mo is "A."

 

I generally play an alac/crit build, so play hasn't felt all that different from my normal build...BUT. I definitely felt the absence of Awe, Force Camo, and Transcendence. Honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves is when a class gets revamped, and I lose abilities I once had at the same level. So the prospect of having a level 75 toon that had Awe, Force Cloak, and Transcendence, but now doesn't kinda hacks me off. As with so many others here, I prefer the flexibility that I currently have; pigeon-holing abilities too much limits our utility, especially when playing in smaller groups or solo. And there were times on Onderon where I would have dearly loved to have a bit more crowd control. (I'm also still bitter about the loss of "Slice Droid" in other instances.)

 

Since the change on Precision from timing to stacks, Centering build has felt slightly off to me. Probably perception, but in this instance, I had a few longer fights where Zen never proc'd. Some of this may have just been a result of changes to my usual style because of the slightly differing passives (and gear), but it definitely did not feel right.

 

I understand the drive to make the builds more accessible or more newbie friendly, but the play still has to be engaging. When they revamped builds back in the day, ostensibly to make them more "friendly," Blizzard dumbed the Affliction spec Warlock down so much that it went from a challenging and fun spec that required focus on ability and timing, to a 4-button smash that got boring in a hurry. My Combat Sent, as it stands, is a happy medium -- not overly complicated, but challenging enough, with enough utility to handle both single target and AoE acceptably, adapting on the fly. The changes, as presented, would be incredibly disappointing and would probably stifle that.

 

Also: I do not understand the fascination with Blade Blitz. For me, it's a flashy animation and an ability that I don't use often. If I'm jumping into the fray, I prefer my two stacks of Force Leap, and for AoE, I prefer Force Sweep, Rebuke, and Cyclone Slash.

 

Will give loadout "B" a shot this weekend.

Edited July 31, 2021 by andveryginger

[Dyne-]

 

Also: I do not understand the fascination with Blade Blitz. For me, it's a flashy animation and an ability that I don't use often. If I'm jumping into the fray, I prefer my two stacks of Force Leap, and for AoE, I prefer Force Sweep, Rebuke, and Cyclone Slash.

 

Will give loadout "B" a shot this weekend.

 

If you pvp or raid the ability gives players considerable outplay potential. Personally I'm speaking from a pvp perspective. It can make or break a fight.

[Jedilifee]

Hey Bioware,

 

So I only tested both Watchmen builds for the Sentinel and feedback below:

 

Firstly some missing abilities, I know you guys are not putting everything in if feel it doesn't need testing but I think it would be good to confirm if you are indeed taking abilities away from the class, would give us a better outlook to if Sentinel still feels like a Sentinel, but list below

• Force Stasis
  
• Pacify
  
• Awe
  

 

Build A

This Build felt more like a Sentinel for me and didn't have to many difference, rotation was pretty much the same. The only thing I would like confirmed whether its correct Force Melt is generating 11 centering, although it was great for using Zen more frequently it did cause some other issues.

 

Melting Centre - I really like the idea of this ability and the damage burst was great but I could rarely get it to work in my rotation, with Force Melt now giving 11 centering I found it either put me close to 30 stacks or hit it, which ment Id have to wait with using Zen for it to be effective that just kinda felt wrong so I didn't end up using this much unless it aligned which was every 4/5 rotation.

 

Burning Barrage- Simply loved this!

 

Cauterzing Focus - I didn't quiet understand this and was hard to spot, I was using the spiteful saber tactical so on boss fights in flashpoints I barely fresh applied it and couldnt see if it was working through the tactical refresh , maybe someone else has better feedback? If it doesnt then I do see it as a pointless passive if using spiteful saber!

 

Burning Zen - Seemed decent enough but wasn't giving me full focus when activating Zen, so think this is bugged?

 

Adamant- didnt get to test

 

Build B

I generally didnt enjoy this build at all, it felt like a forced pvp build, I dont generally pvp on my sentinel so maybe im biased, it did have some decent aspects though

 

Burning Centrering- I do think this will be a game changer for Sentinels, kind of wished I had it in Build A , but I do generally think it will tear people between Force Clarity and this passive for more frequent Zen charges, especially if its correct Force Melt giving 11 centering

 

Personally I am a little conflicted with paths available for Sentinel, looking down it I would generally pick the passives that haven't been made available to us in some cases. Hopefully we can test them down the line and get more of a feel for it.

 

Touching everyone's favourite topic defensive cooldowns, I generally am not to bothered missing two of these, when it becomes available to pick, no doubt I will pick Force Camo as its superior in every way. Blade blitz I mainly use to get to trash mobs quicker and never a defensive apart from 1 boss I can think off. Guarded by the Force, yeah everyone loves God mod but again I only use it when being lazy and not wanting to move out of high damage aoe so I can keep dpsing, not a huge loss

 

Please answer the following questions:

What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?

Although there is a lot of pointless whining on previous posts, I generally do agree with the fact Sentinels are suppose to be fast and nimble, not making transcendence a base line ability really hurt, it was even a worst blow how you've not put any of the old utilities into the skill, I understand potentially wanting to take the cleanse aspect out but forcing us to use 30 Zen does feel to far. Also putting it as a choice against offensive dps passives makes it certain its not going to get picked, I would hope you generally reconsider this as its a huge identity loss for Sents, I was always trying to hit my transcendence button and so were my guilidies who I was doing Flashpoints with and it just left a sour taste in the mouth as its lost all of its mover ability and group benefits.

 

I would highly suggest making Transcendence a base line ability and allow not to use 30 centering stacks just remove the cleanse effect and you've balanced this ability.

[Loc_n_lol]

So I only play watchman on live, so that's what I am commenting on. I did take a look at the others but don't feel knowledgeable enough to comment on them.

 

What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?

Twin saber throw, for its ability to accidentally breaks CCs and aggro extra mobs. That is the most sentinel thing ever. When I think sentinel, I just think of that guy who likes to make life more interesting for the rest of the group by making sure nothing ever goes according to plan.

In watchman, the main one for me is merciless slash. Brutal dual weapon attack that sends sparks and embers flying on hit. Used to come with a custom voice effect too but that proc is gone.

 

Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

• Force lash (Watchman "B") as a replacer to cauterize doesn't really seem worth using as it is now, unless there's something I'm missing ? Seems like even with overload saber and force melt on the target you get less damage than a slash out of it. Also seems weird that it has 100m range (error surely?) and no cooldown. Cauterize's animation is not something I'd like to see spammed.
  
• Zen activation timing becoming a bit more tactical in the "A" watchman loadout is interesting. It seems the idea here is to make Zen one of the cornerstone abilities of the class, rather than something you use on cooldown.
  
• I like that watchman now gets options to become burstier in the "B" loadout. On live, the long rampup time makes this discipline less than ideal in many situations.
  
• I honestly think building resources when resting ("Contemplation"), should just be a passive for all classes that have similar effects (sentinel, commando, tactics vanguard). It's just much more convenient. In PVE it just means swapping loadout before a boss fight, which is just annoying, not interesting.
  
• AOE damage reduction is similarly a questionable choice. It's basically mandatory for PVE group content, especially for those classes where it is passive, like sentinel. There's hardly going to be something more valuable than taking 30% less damage from all of the unavoidable ******** operation bosses throw at the group to keep the healers busy.
  
• Blade storm has no use for watchman, and none of the proposed loadouts change that. I would just have force melt replace it entirely (similar range and cooldown). The only thing lost is a stun on weak NPCs, which could be added to force melt.
  
• Overload saber remains a not particularly interesting ability in my opinion. Doesn't really synergize with anything, it's just something you activate on cooldown, off the global cooldown. You can extend its duration if you play it smart, but it hardly seems worth it. Maybe make it a passive upgrade to force melt or merciless slash ? Or replace it with something else entirely ? This feels very similar to pre-3.0 flechette round and I think it deserved the same treatment.
  
• Having a threat dump be a choice seems highly questionable. Are there more threat changes we should be aware of ? I don't think dps guardians had one either.
  

Edited July 31, 2021 by Loc_n_lol

[LJ_Gibbs]

IMO .. we still need:

 

** Blade Blitz

** Transcendence

** Guarded by the Force

 

I use these extensively ! So IF I HAD to choose: I'd prefer that these were left in tact !

 

I'm reminded of the lines in Caddyshack...

 

Players (aka Spalding): I want a hamburger. No, I want a cheeseburger. I want....

 

Bioware (aka Judge Smails): You'll get nothing and like it.

[Kiesu]

Putting a choice between more damage, single slow or Transcendence seems like a nobrainer.

As well as a choice between a good defensive or a threat drop (camo). DPS should ALWAYS have access to threat drop without having to sacrifice an entire ability.

 

Keep the utility point system with passives to choose from. It was a great system imo and removing it to force player into picking between activate-able abilities rather than passive buffs is no fun at all. If you want to simplify and lessen button amounts, don't make nonsense choices, just remove or combine some abilities completely:

 

Some suggestions:

- Delete ALL raid buffs from all classes (having the debuffs clutter healer UI constantly is annoying anyway). We have plenty of buffs and cheese reflects not originally in vanilla to make up for the dps loss from raidbuffs in current game anyway.

- Delete Valorous Call and just have regen give you centering automatically by default, deleting raid buff deletes biggest use for Valorous Call anyway.

(- Leg Slash could be combined with another ability to remove another button, I would recommend combining with twin saber throw or blade storm)

(- If you really want to get rid of Camo and leave dps with no threat drop, then lessen taunt cooldown for tanks. I would recommend against it and just keep camo though as taunt is much stronger cd in pvp)

Edited July 31, 2021 by Kiesu

[Emperor_Cain]

With our next phase of PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Sentinel.

 

Please answer the following questions:

 

• What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?
  
• Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?
  
• If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

 

Thank you!

• What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you? - Speed and volume of attack. Combat used to be my favorite sentinel spec for this reason before it was nerfed into mediocrity.
   
  
• Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies? - I guess? It's hard to say based on Onderon. I would be concerned with the quality of PvP and Operations, though, as much of the thinking and reactivity required to be successful has been removed. Seems to me it might get very boring. With Awe, Stasis, Clarity, Pacify, Guarded by the Force and Transcendence all gone, there's really nothing to do but hack and slash through the simple rotation over and over and over. Perhaps that kind of simplicity is what you're going for, but it seems like a sharp downgrade to someone who's put in the time to get good at this game.
   
  
• If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it. - I tried both loadouts for Concentration, as that's what I play the most, and loadout A for Combat. I REALLY miss Transcendence in all of these rotations. Like I said above, speed is one of the key elements that makes Sentinel fun and you feel it's absence as you plod along from enemy to enemy. Especially painful if you've had a slow applied to you and now have very few options other then to absorb blaster fire.
  

 

As for just the offensive rotation: Concentation A feels about right, though no blade blitz AND no transcendence makes it a slog. Concentration B is about the same, though the AOE on Focused Burst seems a bit unnecessary. I found myself not really using Sweep at all since it wouldn't make much sense to use one or the other without the proc. I don't know if FB does more or less AOE damage, but if it does more, why even have sweep? If it doesn't, why ever use it in an AOE situation over Sweep?

 

Combat A the attacking is fast, which is always great, but again, mobility when you're not on the target is an issue. Even more then Conc, as you don't have Zealous leap to close the shorter gaps quickly. It might actually be worth using in PVP if no one has any stuns anymore, but if slows are still a thing, the whole class could be a hard pass.

 

Overall Impressions: I was very excited when I learned about loadouts. The ability to have a smuggler with a sniper rifle, or a bounty hunter with an assault cannon, and to be able to have my light side Marauder use Jedi abilities is something I had wished for and wanted for a long time. Not to mention the possibility this could open up for adding brand new combat paths to the game easily, without having to go build an entire new character story.. all very exciting.

 

After testing and seeing how you're planning to execute it... not as exciting. Deflating, actually. It's a dumbed down, more boring, and even frustrating at times version of what we have now. It is for Sentinels, at the very least. My other favorite class is Shadow, and what makes them unique is the control they have over opponents. The mez/stun purge here has me very worried, but I'll withhold judgment there until I can test.

 

My advice would be keep the loadouts, dial it way back on the ability pruning. There are a few instances where baking in abilities would be very welcome. For example, utilities like Stoic, Defensive roll and Zealous judgment I never spec out of, so having them as passive or part of the rotation is great. Even button abilities like Clarity and Rebuke are kinda nice to have baked into the rotation as you sort of just mindless refresh them off of cooldown anyway.

 

But that's about as far as I would go.

 

What you're doing now is fundamentally changing how combat works to favor facerollers over veteran players. It's been 10 years. I'm still here because I enjoy this game (and I imagine I'm not alone in that). You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Go gently, I beg you.

[TevosisHot]

Putting a choice between more damage, single slow or Transcendence seems like a nobrainer.

As well as a choice between a good defensive or a threat drop (camo). DPS should ALWAYS have access to threat drop without having to sacrifice an entire ability.

 

Keep the utility point system with passives to choose from. It was a great system imo and removing it to force player into picking between activate-able abilities rather than passive buffs is no fun at all. If you want to simplify and lessen button amounts, don't make nonsense choices, just remove or combine some abilities completely:

 

Some suggestions:

- Delete ALL raid buffs from all classes (having the debuffs clutter healer UI constantly is annoying anyway). We have plenty of buffs and cheese reflects not originally in vanilla to make up for the dps loss from raidbuffs in current game anyway.

- Delete Valorous Call and just have regen give you centering automatically by default, deleting raid buff deletes biggest use for Valorous Call anyway.

(- Leg Slash could be combined with another ability to remove another button, I would recommend combining with twin saber throw or blade storm)

(- If you really want to get rid of Camo and leave dps with no threat drop, then lessen taunt cooldown for tanks. I would recommend against it and just keep camo though as taunt is much stronger cd in pvp)

 

-What reflects? you are aware that for a reflect to do **** the boss has to target you? How is that a substitute for a raid buff that affects everyone?

 

-No thanks

 

-Yeah sure having a half speed slow with 20 per cent healing decrease on rotational abilities is a great idea, pvp'ers will love it

 

-No need to lower cd's on taunt any tank worth their salt should be able to keep aggro and if not they can use guard

[Nepthen]

This is what I have been waiting for. I've been a Sentinel since Beta. I know this class. I'm very good at this class (high end PvE here). I've been through Sentinel PTS changes before and helped fix things as best as I could (anyone else remember how Force Melt was first introduced in 3.0?) ... I love this class... it's my main and literally the only character I truly care how the story plays out.

 

That being said, I don't want this to sound harsh but bits of it will. This is all about Watchman, my absolute favorite spec in this game.

 

~Level 15

Gain Saber Ward and choose one passive (applies to Force Melt)

• [A] Melting Center - Force Melt’s initial damage is quadrupled when it consumes a Zen charge.
  
• Critical Melt - While Force Melt is on a target, the crit chance of all your burn attacks on that target increases
  
• Juyo Melt - Force Melt immediately builds 6 Juyo Form stacks. Force Melt damage is increased per Juyo Form stack.
  

 

This all seems fine... the theory crafters will do their math and tell us what is the best overall DPS gain, which is what any serious PvE Sentinel will pick and then never touch it again. This isn't a bad thing, you can't escape the meta.

 

~Level 20

Choose one starting ability to upgrade

Slash + Snaring Slash - Slash now slows the target by 50% for 10 seconds.

[A] Blade Barrage + Burning Barrage - Blade Barrage deals additional burning damage on each hit and immobilizes the target for 3 seconds.

Transcendence - Requires Centering. Grants raid-wide speed and defense buff. Also breaks roots and snares

 

For PvE, Option A is the only choice. Option B is a PvP thing. Slowing mobs out in the world isn't needed. Choosing Transcendence is very very situational and the fact that it will require Centering is a negative. Transcendence should be baseline but require Centering. Then you could make this choice remove the Centering requirement and a cooldown added instead, and then maybe it could see some uses but again, PvE-wise, you focus on DPS, which is Option A.

 

~Level 30

Gain Dispatch and choose one (applies to Cauterize)

• Force Lash - Direct Force attack that’s damage and crit chance are scaled by the number of burns currently on the target
  
• [A] Cauterizing Focus - When activating Cauterize consumes a Zen charge, it immediately refunds 2 Focus. Applies trauma.
  
• Flaming Wave - Cauterize procs a Flaming Wave version of Force Sweep when activated.
  

 

I'm not sure about any of this section. For starters, it seems to kill Spiteful Saber, our go-to Tactical. Choosing Force Lash removes the DoT entirely from Cauterize (unless the UI isn't showing it?), thus making it spammable (probably not better than spamming Slash but we'll see how the math works out on that) but removing the need for our Tactical. This also means one less dot to spread to mobs via Force Sweep. Option A's wording also kills the tactical since you only use Cauterize once in a long fight, assuming no target swapping, and therefore will never benefit from that choice. The third option sounds fun maybe while out doing story stuff but a tiny amount of AoE utility is typically useless for Sentinels at end game PvE.

 

I'm not a fan of any of these choices.

 

~Level 35

Gain Valorous Call and choose one passive

• Burning Center - Build Centering even during Zen. Consuming a charge of Zen builds 1 Centering.
  
• [A] Burning Zen - Activating Zen immediately maxes out your Focus and makes your next direct attack critically hit. Periodic burn damage no longer consumes Zen charges.
  
• Force Clarity / Furious Power - Next attack deals 25% more damage
  

 

Option A sounds terrible unless you're lining it up with Merciless Slash and even then it may not be worth it. Proper Zen usage is what separates the great Sentinels from the good. Knowing when to pop Zen so that your 3 stack of overload saber is on the target, thus getting really good burn crits, is very important for overall DPS. Option A sounds like it could lead to a ton of wasted Focus.

 

Option B sounds pretty cool... if not for Option C.

 

Option C seems the only true choice to take. You've pruned so much from our abilities and now you're making this a choice to take? No, you're going to want to take this pretty much all the time. Set it and forget it.

 

~Level 50

Choose one passive

• [A] Adamant - Builds Focus when crowd controlled
  
• Intercessor -Charge grants extra charge, now grants 2 Centering.
  
• Defensive Roll - Reduces AOE damage taken.
  

 

I admit I use Intercessor out in the world because it's fun hopping around... that being said, the only choice in this tier is Defensive Roll. Option A is useless in PvE, probably useful in PvP but for PvP, you're going to want the aoe dmg reduction.

 

Another non-choice. Option C. Every time.

 

~Level 60

Choose one option

• Jedi Crusader - While Rebuke is active, it generates 1 Focus whenever you are attacked.
  
• [A] Trailblazer - Increases certain AOE damage.
  
• Zealous Ward - Getting hit during Saber Ward heals you and grants crowd control immunity.
  

 

Ugh, not a fan of the choices here either. Option B, Jedi Crusader is the obvious choice considering Rebuke should pretty much be active at all times (there's always damage going out). Option A, Trailblazer sounds awful, especially with the vague description. Option C, zealous ward is pretty useless in PvE. If you have to pop Saber Ward in PvE, someone messed up.

 

~Level 70

Choose one Ability.

• Blade Blitz - Quickly rush forward and deal weapon damage to enemies and increasing your defense change by 100% while blitzing
  
• [A]Guarded by the Force - Reduces damage taken for a short time.
  
• Force Camouflage - Obscures yourself with the Force, becoming difficult to detect, reducing your threat towards all enemies, reducing all damage taken by 50%, granting immunity to controlling effects, and increasing movement speed by 30%. Removes all cleansable effects when activated.
  

 

This. This right here angers me beyond belief. You're going to make us choose between Guarded by the Force and Force Camo? Force Camo should absolutely be baseline. Why the hell would you take away a threat dump from a DPS? That, frankly, is a terrible decision. These abilities have been in the game since launch and they are super unique to Sentinels. They allow us to tank a boss for enough seconds to get a dead tank up after a death since Sentinels are usually the first to get attacked after a tank dies because we generate so much threat.

 

Force camo... I don't know where to start here. First, it's our threat dump. DPS absolutely need threat dumps. Are you going to force all DPS to choose a threat dump? Second, it's our self cleanse, something we fought and fought for back in 3.0 Beta. Now you're going to force us to choose it?

 

I get it... you want to remove defensives, even if 90% of them have been in the game for almost 10 years. My suggestion? Force Camo is baseline. Full stop. Make this level 70 choice between Guarded by the Force and Saber Ward. Have Zealous Ward built into Saber Ward and replace that choice from Level 60 be Enduring (which buffs Guarded by the Force).

 

I really hate this current PTS choice. I love both Camo and Guarded.

 

Level 80

Choose a passive

[A] Stoic - Increases damage reduction, builds centering when attacked.

Contemplation - Resting increases Fury/Centering.

Incisor - Adds snare to certain attacks.

 

Option A seems pretty obvious here. Again, damage reduction. Option B seems pretty lame considering you gave us the choice to add a snare to our spammable Slash ability way back in level 20! Also the "adds snare to certain attacks" wording is terrible... what attacks? Surely the finalized version isn't going to be this vague.

 

Contemplation... while I use it now for easier ops, will not be chosen, especially if switching loadouts doesn't remove your Centering. People already grab this now, get their centering, and respec their utilities. They'll do that in the future.

 

 

Some other thoughts.

 

No Pacify? I can live with that but it was very useful and also has been there since launch.

No Awe? Lame

No Force Stasis? We have no stun now. Sure it's used once in a while but it's still a means to stop damage from coming to us.

 

I did run some dailies and things died just as I suspected they would. The rotation doesn't shift much, which is good. However, I focus my Sentinel thoughts on PvE End Game and that just feels so bad right now, knowing all the tricks I have used for 10 years have been severely reduced. It's not fun.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Nepthen

[Kiesu]

-What reflects? you are aware that for a reflect to do **** the boss has to target you? How is that a substitute for a raid buff that affects everyone?

 

-No thanks

 

-Yeah sure having a half speed slow with 20 per cent healing decrease on rotational abilities is a great idea, pvp'ers will love it

 

-No need to lower cd's on taunt any tank worth their salt should be able to keep aggro and if not they can use guard

 

- Are you saying teams with no raid buffing classes cannot complete NIMs? Get gud boddy. (And to answer your question: yes, there is a ton of bosses and phase adds that can be damaged with reflects and therefor speed up the phase.)

 

- Nice argument

 

- Yeah its not great but if you wanna remove buttons (like they clearly want to with these PTS changes), there you go.

 

- You're welcome to come tank for my team, we promise to not use any threat drops.

 

+ Make better suggestions then, I see you making zero effort

Edited July 31, 2021 by Kiesu

[andveryginger]

If you pvp or raid the ability gives players considerable outplay potential. Personally I'm speaking from a pvp perspective. It can make or break a fight.

 

Thank you. I did wonder. I don't PvP and haven't run Ops on a regular basis in a long while, so this is not a benefit I would know.

 

... which also makes the point for me that choice should be a thing. If I ever do choose to do PvP or again have the opportunity to run Ops, then it'd be a thing. When not partaking of this content, then, it makes sense that maybe another choice/config would be more beneficial.

Edited July 31, 2021 by andveryginger

[TevosisHot]

- Are you saying teams with no raid buffing classes cannot complete NIMs? Get gud boddy. (And to answer your question: yes, there is a ton of bosses and phase adds that can be damaged with reflects and therefor speed up the phase.)

 

- Nice argument

 

- Yeah its not great but if you wanna remove buttons (like they clearly want to with these PTS changes), there you go.

 

- You're welcome to come tank for my team, we promise to not use any threat drops.

 

+ Make better suggestions then, I see you making zero effort

 

-I was clearing nim ops before 3.0 was even a thing. NIce try. Also saber reflect was there since 1.0 so ops were already balanced around that.

 

-Or maybe give the feedback that certain abilities are necessary under certain circumstances and should not be touched instead of coming up with terrible frankenstein substitutes.

 

-I tanked ops before didnt lose aggro, try having better tanks.

 

-I already made my suggestions, if they wanna remove useless abilities they should remove the last ones they introduced. Press this yet another button to do 10 per cent more dmg without situational awareness or any type of decision making involved is as uninspired as it gets in terms of abilities, even more than giving everyone a reflect or a teleport, instead they remove abilities that have been in the game since 1.0

[CarlGustaf]

-I was clearing nim ops before 3.0 was even a thing. NIce try. Also saber reflect was there since 1.0 so ops were already balanced around that.

 

[...]

 

-I already made my suggestions, if they wanna remove useless abilities they should remove the last ones they introduced. Press this yet another button to do 10 per cent more dmg without situational awareness or any type of decision making involved is as uninspired as it gets in terms of abilities, even more than giving everyone a reflect or a teleport, instead they remove abilities that have been in the game since 1.0

 

Saber Reflect was introduced with 2.0 as the new ability Juggs and Guardians got. (Same as Phasewalk for Sin, Godbubble for Sorc, theire respectiv Roll for Operative and Sniper, Electro Net for Merc, Shoulder Cannon for PT and DST for Mara)

[TevosisHot]

Saber Reflect was introduced with 2.0 as the new ability Juggs and Guardians got. (Same as Phasewalk for Sin, Godbubble for Sorc, theire respectiv Roll for Operative and Sniper, Electro Net for Merc, Shoulder Cannon for PT and DST for Mara)

 

Point still stands that 100 of the ops are balanced around it.It's not something we got recently that somehow makes ops a breeze to clear, like devs want people to believe. Somehow now reflect is a problem but the tacticals that heal people to full or lower the cd to heal to full abilities are not. Do yourself a favour and play midbies pvp with a bunch of level 70s and then play level 75 pvp you'll see where the ttk increase comes from, spoiler alert it's not from a couple passives or the utility point u get at max level.

[DarthZeroe]

What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?

It looks like most of the important Sentinel abilities have been kept as baselines (Inspiration, Dual Saber Throw, etc.) The only ones that don't seem to be, but should be, are Transcendence and Force Camouflage. Now to me both make the Sentinel unique because Transcendance gives you that extra mobility and speed that's helpful whether you're solo or in a group, and Force Camo is a good escape option for when you start getting too much heat with the added bonus of stealth.

 

Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?

I mainly played Combat loadout A, and it seemed to perform pretty well in fights. All the core attacks were there so nothing felt missing during the rotation, the DCDs were sufficient (for open world anyway).

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

Overall I'd say this felt more balanced than the Guardian test loadouts, there should probably be a couple more baseline abilities added but other than that it felt similar to how Sentinel plays on the live server. Except, you know, simplified.

Edited August 3, 2021 by DarthZeroe

[Yezzan]

Not much to add since I'm not a Sentinel player. The class seemed more powerful to me, especially with AOE. Watchman felt like a burst spec, and and Concentration's AOE is insane.

 

The issue is you removed force cammo and Transcendence. Not sure jhow to feel about the removal of blade blitz, but now we have no decent set bonus with the removal of force celerity

[VampRayLa]

First, I am still confused about why these changes are being made. Both responses seem to contradict each other. You want to make the class easier to understand for new players AND you are upset that players are able to cheese mechanics.

 

I'm not sure how this helps new players. I did not play any mmos when I played swtor - yes, it was overwhelming. I could not understand why there were so many abilities. I used slash until my focus was full, then I face rolled until I ran out of focus, then repeat. Never watching when to interrupt, and always using a dcd too late. Then there was the big change (4.0?). Clases lost stances/cells/(not sure what else) and the tree was redone - and you know what I did? I used slash until my focus was full, then I face rolled until I ran out of focus, then repeat. I can tell you one thing for sure - that these changes will not change how new players play.

 

I am not sure how this helps players from bypassing mechanics. I understand some mechanics can be ignored due to dcds, and sent have about three stuns, but a lot of cheesed mechanics are in older content, it is dated - and cheesed by your upper level players mostly. And in lower content, they are not ignored by dcds, it is because the 'hit' does nothing today. While I mostly agree that story mode should be able to be facedrolled so that those players (old me) can just play the game and get the story - this gives the illusion that they can do harder content, and does not teach them how to play. There were ppl that could not pass Nathama story fps - these are the same ppl that stand in sweeping fire in hammer station - this is not an ability issue, this is a player issue. They know they can hit a kolto and ignore what is going on. You are only affecting your top players with this.

 

Feedback (Combat) Sent:

 

What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?

When I started I was asked 'how do you play' and my response was 'i run up and hit things really fast' - I was told to pick sent, but its hard to be good and easy to be bad and you will always be sad - they were not wrong and 10 years later she is still my main. People call sent/mara's glass cannons, but we are not, we are glass pistols - and, i am also ok with that, because we are fast and skillful. Sent/Maras do not stand still, always running, jumping, and moving to the next target. Even when we fight we jump and for no reason. Speed and agility and skill. We are flashpoint tanks and support in raids. We bring to the table what other classes cant. We zoom in open world and are trickster players. In lue of dcds, we have skill. We are clearly not Guardians - who hit like trucks and take a beating; Sents have to be smart to live and kill.

 

Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?

I went to onderaan, and tho my companion was on heals (normally on dps) I was fine. but I only pulled one mob at a time and if I was in live I would pull two or three or more. Being that I had basically every attack ability, my only concern was speed and survivability and my tricks to save me. HOWEVER - you took only one fighting ability from combat sent (more below) - clearly i could still kill.

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

I disliked loadout a and b - i prefer the forum post of what choices I would get. Most of my feedback is based on that. (I personally would sacrifice dps and defense for my abilities back. Per fight I would rethink what I bring and would have to change it up...but my day to day play would be abilities. And, im not willing to change my setup fight to fight. I would rather do literally anything else with my time.)

 

I don't know if your intention was to hit the Guardian harder or feedback was taken into account, but Combat Sentinel clearly didn't get the same hit (sounds like the other sents did), but its not all roses. The choice for sent seem to be 'an ability or a passive' in most cases. I lose dps or defensive for the sake of an ability. Again, I say, as per guardian feedback, this is only nice for people who do nothing but parse.

 

All of the attack abilities are there (save leg slash, but even in pvp I barely cared and now can be added as a passive). Its the DCDs or its like that are gone. The class is still here, yes, but everything that pushes a toon to be able to clutch a fight is gone. And I find that the most fun.

 

The PTS nor the Forums were too helpful to be honest. I cant get the feel of what options I would have chosen on PTS. I ended up with a mix of passive and abilities. When I got to onderaan i lost an ability but I did not check my passives. The forum states there are two 'new abilities added-' but no ability name. I am guessing that is still in discussion, and I would think its one of the existing and just decisions have not be made yet? Which may leave the rest of my feedback off.

 

Ability changes that stood out

Transcendence vs passive choice: now I need to have the clarity? Transcendence relying on clarity makes transcendence terrible. Its really on borderline deal breaker - since I will have valorous call, I guess I can use that, and lose my buildup of centering - but I would rather lose valorous call (considering the other changes) and have transcendence not use centering.

 

Force Camo vs Passives: losing threat drops seem to be a theme. Threat drops are real in swtor today, and while that may be something that is changing the future the stealth and the dcd with it does come in handy. This is actually an ability done right to me. It is one ability with multiple uses, but not too many. There are three clear actions this one ability does. (not to mention, going into a force camo would lose some agro and would 'protect' you. This was just a cleaver ability to me always.) Then I could also have a passive to add a cleanse (example of the exception to my normal run that i would change for a small handful of flights.)

 

Guarded by the Force/Inspiration/Force Clarity:

 

Force Clarity: (among other that expac) is an example of 'we don't need new abilities each expac'. While for sent its at least not useless, this was about the closest ability to bloat you could get. While I liked the control to add more dps in my burst window, it was just 'one more click' in my burst window. Buffing other abilities would have been better than an extra ability that buffs abilities.

 

Inspiration: I saw someone mention just getting rid of raid buffs all together, and, well I cant say I disagree. And i am going to pretend I understand whatever you are trying to accomplish - If this is more raid specific, then make a pvp kind and an open world kind and then we choose between three of the same type.

 

Guarded by the force: Of course the best dcd is a choice.

 

Not Deal Breakers, but not happy (maybe the 'missing' abilities?):

Removed Force Status?: loss of second stun/interrupt. This is just fun. Every force user should be able to 'force choke' - sorry not sorry.

Removed Pacify?: loss of (kind of) dcd. underused, useless in raid bosses. great in pvp, open world, and solo play

Removed Awe?: loss of third stun/interrupt. underused, about useless in raids. great in pvp, open world, and solo play - this has saved me in open world more than any other ability.

 

Overall changes looks like our options are broken into three groups: more dps, more dcd, or more ability. Its seems to be getting clearer that there are changes for pvp - at least that is what it looks like to me.

 

My Complaint remains the same: I am having to choose abilities. This is not a class rework. This is not an ability bloat rework. This is not a play your way. This is not even a nerf. This is not even less confusing. Its just different for the sake of being different.

 

Choose between abilities, or abilities vs passives: Please explain what is trying to be accomplished by this? Is it to have multiple loadouts? per fight? I, and most, do not like changing specs per fight. I, and I think a lot, make multiple toons to just NOT respec (funny enough, because respecing is a pain - the thing we thought loadouts would fix). Passive choices are one thing, which is a general layout and for a small handful of fights a new set is used. This looks to be a loadout per boss per story vs hm vs nim vs trash vs pvp vs open world? How many loadouts does one need? Am I expected to ask the raid lead 'are you expecting a raid buff or transcendence? because now I have to know before we start' Do I ask the other sent 'do you want the guarded by the force and I will bring the raid buff?' - this is the deal breaker for me. I just want to jump into a raid and go - and, idk, just have everything I need.

 

What is the gain? Please, what are we gaining in this change? This is 'passives mixed with abilities that give you less options'. Even ppl who pretend like this is not terrible can not say what is being gained. And not that I think we should gain something each expac, i dont. But all this time is put into something and nothing is gained, and everything is loss. This is just loss.

 

Honestly, these changes mostly slow the game. Picking up multiple mobs is more deadly. Lack of DCD and CC is a concern that maybe my comp needs to go back to heals instead of dps or I have to stop and heal more often. And I'm not convinced I would not have to change builds per fights per raid lead's expectations. Its really just becoming more of a pain.

 

The question you have not asked in these feedbacks in ‘how do you play swtor?’ and ‘does this feel like swtor?’. I dont play swtor to be a second job. I dont play swtor for it to be a pain. I play swtor because it gave me something fun to learn and to get better and better at. I can faceroll and do story. I can learn to be better and do harder content. I can play as easy or as hard as I want that day. But i knew one thing - everything was right there for me at all times - nothing to change, no different loadout, its was just there. If I messed up and pulled too many mobs I knew I just had to ‘play smart’ not ‘well, I guess I chose the wrong load out’. Chose passives, not abilities. And, no, this does not feel like swtor: where im a jedi/sith that does not die because I pulled two mobs. jedi/sents didnt leave their guarded by the force at home and brought force clarity instead. If I wanted to play a slow game, GW (loadouts) is free and FFXIV (which gives me all my abilities) is gaining players by the day. I play swtor because its fast, i can play what I want how I want, I can be just as bad or as good as I want that day. And I can change my mind at the drop of a hat and not have to ‘hold on, I have to change everything to do this fight’. Or worse, in a fps with three carries and now I dont have everything I need to carry. Now we just wasted everyone's time. Maybe that is fun for someone, but not to me - and I play swtor first of all for fun.

 

I was going to try the other specs, but, I dont see why. It is the same feedback, but a different spec. Maybe if the classes were being reworked, not the game play, I would have done more.

 

And, just in case you cant see it: You are hitting your skilled players because they are skilled. You are taking away what puts them above the average. This isnt about new players dont understand, they never will if they dont learn. This is not about mechanics being bypassed, though I agree with the statement, removing abilities is not that solution - and your combat sent changes are proof of that.

 

Open World/Solo play is hit the hardest with Combat Mara changes - where this class shines the best if im honest. Its still a Combat Sent, but lost all the clutch, which to me was all the fun.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

My Complaint remains the same: I am having to choose abilities. This is not a class rework. This is not an ability bloat rework. This is not a play your way. This is not even a nerf. This is not even less confusing. Its just different for the sake of being different.

 

^ so much this. Nothing seems improved by these changes.

 

I will be completely unsurprised if shadows /scoundrels show up on the PTS with stealth either removed or a 'choice'.

Edited August 1, 2021 by LD_Little_Dragon