Combat styles are death of game

[SithKoriandr]

Honestly.....

 

Yes, I'm against this but it is what it is. Maybe I will look back on this post a year from now and say "Combat styles worked out a lot better than I thought they would." or maybe I'll say "Man, I wish they had taken a tip from Borderlands on character classes.".

 

As it is, we'll see. BW is going to do what they're going to do at this point. Personally, I'd like to keep things how they are on the classes but I might be wrong and this will be a good thing.

 

The thing about this change, is you, or anyone, as a player, never have to change which Combat Style your Trooper, Knight, Warrior etc is.

 

If you think Class identity is so tied to the combat style and that a Consular should never be a single blade melee fighter, then never make use of any Combat Style but Sage/Shadow on your Consular.

 

If you don't think a Bounty Hunter should ever use an Ion Cannon (Commando Combat Style) or rely more on their dual blasters (Gunslinger) or even use a Sniper Rifle (Sniper) and only be able to use the Combat Style they use now, then stick to what the original Combat Styles are.

 

No player is forced to choose new Combat Styles, so their Class Identity is still in tact. New players can even go "No, I'll never play any Combat Style that wasn't the classes original class." if they believe Combat Styles are tied to class identity.

[Kass]

https://vulkk.com/2021/07/11/swtor-7-0-pts-guardian-combat-styles-first-look/

 

[CheesyEZ]

In ESO, you have a maximum of 12 abilities, and only 6 you can use at any given time, with 1 provisional based upon resource charging. Developing muscle-memory for weaving just those few abilities required 40hrs of practice alone. I know it may sound odd, but as a returning player to SWTOR, I definitely do NOT miss all the extra buttons I have to mash, and how I spend more time looking at cooldowns than I do enjoying the scenery.

 

I tried to play ESO twice, once in beta and once a few months ago before I finally caved and came back to swtor. I actually bought the base game for ESO this time.

 

I don't want to piss on ESO players or the game's lore, but the game play is hot garbage. it's a console port. period. that's what the game play is like. I couldn't get through the starter areas either time. it was just mind numbing to have a mouse and kb but have to play like it's a game with 2 buttons.

 

edit: guild wars and terra both have/had limited abilities and I think wild star did as well. where one bind was actually 2 or 3 abils depending on resources and combos. that's fine, but that's generally something for a more fast paced action oriented game style and engine. I think that would go poorly with swtor's sluggish engine/game play. the last thing BW's "zero engine" needs is to be sped up.

Edited July 19, 2021 by CheesyEZ

[Kass]

Historically Bioware will ask for feedback and then ignore it entirely or completely miss the point and instead twist the suggestion into something much less fun then the original suggestion.

 

This is the first time that I have read through an expansion announcement and had zero understanding of what they are proposing...Combat styles are so vaguely described that I almost think its intentional to try and wrangle interest in the game at a time of mass exodus from WoW... Like BW doesnt even have a a real plan they just saw an opportunity and jumped on it to try and catch some of the players flooding to Final Fantasy...

 

If your observation is even remotely accurate or hell even near the mark, it would radically affect my support for what I am perceiving as a an attempt to bring SWTOR up to 2021-2030 decade of gamers and game culture.

 

Now I think the game is perfectly fine, and I support healthy consolidation and refinement in general.

 

But when I just literally finished playing the new solo story mission briefing on Odessen (I waited for #reasons), and I see a not-supposed-to-be-there-due-to-my-story-choices Theron Shan... I'm just floored suddenly that game mechanics are being revamped when serious coding bugs like that are just dropped into live and the player has to deal with the consequence and impact on their SWTOR experience.

 

Yeah I was on board, but after seeing that silliness in the ONE thing that I play this game for = The Story... yeah I'm not so sure anymore about this 'lets re-engineer the core combat system' anymore....

 

Trying to keep an open mind... but... Do better Bioware EA

[ssupercid]

Bioware be like.... Lets slowly "Streamline" and remove parts of the game over-time and call it Development/adding new features.

 

3.0:

-Streamline the skill trees into Disciplines because Hybrid-players are evil.

-Streamline Comendations and remove planetary gear vendors.

-Destroy every Class Story Boss making them a cakewalk. So much for the Grand Hunt or fighting Baras.

 

4.0:

-Nerf all 1-50 Content, level sync & removal of unique orange gear from heroics and class story rewards.

-Completely remove the carefully designed 1-50 progression in favor of alt-lvling.

-Lets remove companion outfits from class story rewards.

-Lets remove all unique stats.

-Lets by default hide all side-quests and remove their unique rewards.

-Lets remove all uniqueness from companions, abilities, animations, and gearing. Hk51 = Joke now.

-Lets Streamline all crafting.

-Lets Streamline and lvl-sync all group content and their rewards. Also lets let "Bolstered" level 10s into LvL 50 flashpoints.

-Lets let new players start with Lvl 60 chars and throw them into endgame content lmao.

-Lets Streamline all heroics and remove their original cutscenes and quest-givers, also no orange gear, enjoy a lootbox.

-Lets add Data Crystals to replace the replaced commendations.

 

5.0:

-Lets remove advanced class story progression because streamline.

-Lets introduce Galactic Command

-Lets remove Data Crystals...

-Lets make previously toggleable combat-forms into passives because hybrid players are evil.

-Lets Streamline all abilities by removing all utilities from base classes and making them advanced-class exclusive.

-Players don't need agency or fun alternative combat options they are too dumb for that.

-Again hybrid players are evil.

-Lets also just delete abilities and replace them with *******r animations because channeled abilities with cool animations are evil.

-Rip Flamethrower and others.

-Lets remove equipment drops from Ops lol.

-Lets remove Expertise because.

 

6.0:

-Lets replace the command system...

-Wow didn't streamline anything this update but don't worry we got you covered for the next one.

 

And now we are finally here.

7.0:

-Round 2 streamline of abilities under the guise of "Combat Styles" because Swtor needs to be playable on Console.

Cant wait for every class to lose 3 of their situational abilities because the modern gamer can't handle 2 quickbars.

 

*But more seriously, this talk of loadouts seems a bit odd considering my different loadouts could have 15+ abilities currently. It brings great concern they are going to gimp the currently available abilities of every class to achieve small 8-10 ability loadouts standardized across the classes.

Edited July 21, 2021 by ssupercid

[Nee-Elder]

Bioware be like.... Lets slowly "Streamline" and remove parts of the game over-time and call it Development/adding new features.

 

 

3.0:

-Streamline the skill trees into Disciplines because Hybrid-players are evil.

-Streamline Comendations and remove planetary gear vendors.

 

4.0:

-Nerf all 1-50 Content, level sync & removal of unique orange gear from heroics and class story rewards.

-Remove the carefully designed 1-50 progression in favor of alt-lvling.

-Lets remove companion outfits from class story rewards.

-Lets remove all unique stats.

-Lets by default hide all side-quests and remove their unique rewards.

-Lets remove all uniqueness from companions, abilities, animations, and gearing. Hk51 = Joke now.

-Lets Streamline all crafting.

-Lets Streamline and lvl-sync all group content and their rewards. Also lets let "Bolstered" level 10s into LvL 50 flashpoints.

-Lets let new players start with Lvl 60 chars and throw them into endgame content lmao.

-Lets Streamline all heroics and remove their original cutscenes and quest-givers, also no orange gear, enjoy a lootbox.

-Lets add Data Crystals to replace the replaced commendations.

 

5.0:

-Lets remove advanced class story progression because streamline.

-Lets introduce Galactic Command

-Lets remove Data Crystals...

-Lets make previously toggleable combat-forms into passives because hybrid players are evil.

-Lets Streamline all abilities by removing all utilities from base classes and making them advanced-class exclusive.

-Players don't need agency or fun alternative combat options they are too dumb for that.

-Again hybrid players are evil.

-Lets also just delete abilities and replace them with *******r animations because channeled abilities with cool animations are evil.

-Rip Flamethrower and others.

-Lets remove equipment drops from Ops lol.

-Lets remove Expertise because.

 

6.0:

-Lets replace the command system...

-Wow didn't streamline anything this update but don't worry we got you covered for the next one.

 

 

And now we are finally here.

7.0:

-Round 2 streamline of abilities under the guise of "Combat Styles" because Swtor needs to be playable on Console.

Cant wait for every class to lose 3 of their situational abilities because the modern gamer can't handle 2 quickbars.

 

Sheeeeeeesh , kudos to you for the historic encapsulation and tbqh, seeing it all broken down like that ^ really confirms 3 things for me:

 

First , the same question i probed on the PTSD forums: Why do multiple Dev Teams always make the same mistake of trying to reinvent the game wheel, thereby undermining their own prior Dev Team's work/foundation?

 

Secondly, it sure does validate that patented lawyer's line in our MMO terms-of-service about "game experience may change" . And third, we the community are partly to blame for being so succeptable to STAR WARS anything that we'll not only continue paying $$$'s to get a game rug yanked from underneath us over & over , but also crave it so much we pay MORE in Cartel Market behavioral reinforcement.

 

*But more seriously, this talk of loadouts seems a bit odd considering my different loadouts could have 15+ abilities currently. It brings great concern they are going to gimp the currently available abilities of every class to achieve small 8-10 ability loadouts standardized across the classes.

 

Yeah that's what i'm wondering too ... Like, how the heck is BioWare gonna "balance" and "streamline" the ENTIRE GAME (10 years worth of content) in the next 4 months with a supposed low-budget & skeleton-crew?

 

I've been subbed since 2011 beta (2008, if we count registration date ) and, frankly, despite all the afroementioned yanking-of-game-rugs , i still have FUN playing this flawed but great game. And, unless SWG-2 comes out of the non-Disney woodwork, why quit SWTOR now?

 

./pep-talk BioWare

Edited July 19, 2021 by Nee-Elder
i'm still with ya BioWare , but ugh ....i'm just a bit concerned is all

[OlBuzzard]

If your observation is even remotely accurate or hell even near the mark, it would radically affect my support for what I am perceiving as a an attempt to bring SWTOR up to 2021-2030 decade of gamers and game culture.

 

Now I think the game is perfectly fine, and I support healthy consolidation and refinement in general.

 

But when I just literally finished playing the new solo story mission briefing on Odessen (I waited for #reasons), and I see a not-supposed-to-be-there-due-to-my-story-choices Theron Shan... I'm just floored suddenly that game mechanics are being revamped when serious coding bugs like that are just dropped into live and the player has to deal with the consequence and impact on their SWTOR experience.

 

Yeah I was on board, but after seeing that silliness in the ONE thing that I play this game for = The Story... yeah I'm not so sure anymore about this 'lets re-engineer the core combat system' anymore....

 

Trying to keep an open mind... but... Do better Bioware EA

 

Bioware be like.... Lets slowly "Streamline" and remove parts of the game over-time and call it Development/adding new features.

 

3.0:

-Streamline the skill trees into Disciplines because Hybrid-players are evil.

-Streamline Comendations and remove planetary gear vendors.

 

4.0:

-Nerf all 1-50 Content, level sync & removal of unique orange gear from heroics and class story rewards.

-Remove the carefully designed 1-50 progression in favor of alt-lvling.

-Lets remove companion outfits from class story rewards.

-Lets remove all unique stats.

-Lets by default hide all side-quests and remove their unique rewards.

-Lets remove all uniqueness from companions, abilities, animations, and gearing. Hk51 = Joke now.

-Lets Streamline all crafting.

-Lets Streamline and lvl-sync all group content and their rewards. Also lets let "Bolstered" level 10s into LvL 50 flashpoints.

-Lets let new players start with Lvl 60 chars and throw them into endgame content lmao.

-Lets Streamline all heroics and remove their original cutscenes and quest-givers, also no orange gear, enjoy a lootbox.

-Lets add Data Crystals to replace the replaced commendations.

 

5.0:

-Lets remove advanced class story progression because streamline.

-Lets introduce Galactic Command

-Lets remove Data Crystals...

-Lets make previously toggleable combat-forms into passives because hybrid players are evil.

-Lets Streamline all abilities by removing all utilities from base classes and making them advanced-class exclusive.

-Players don't need agency or fun alternative combat options they are too dumb for that.

-Again hybrid players are evil.

-Lets also just delete abilities and replace them with *******r animations because channeled abilities with cool animations are evil.

-Rip Flamethrower and others.

-Lets remove equipment drops from Ops lol.

-Lets remove Expertise because.

 

6.0:

-Lets replace the command system...

-Wow didn't streamline anything this update but don't worry we got you covered for the next one.

 

And now we are finally here.

7.0:

-Round 2 streamline of abilities under the guise of "Combat Styles" because Swtor needs to be playable on Console.

Cant wait for every class to lose 3 of their situational abilities because the modern gamer can't handle 2 quickbars.

 

*But more seriously, this talk of loadouts seems a bit odd considering my different loadouts could have 15+ abilities currently. It brings great concern they are going to gimp the currently available abilities of every class to achieve small 8-10 ability loadouts standardized across the classes.

 

 

Sheeeeeeesh , kudos to you for the historic encapsulation and tbqh, seeing it all broken down like that ^ really confirms 3 things for me:

 

First , the same question i probed on the PTS forums: Why do multiple Dev Teams always make the same mistake of trying to reinvent the game wheel, thereby undermining their own prior Dev Team's work/foundation?

 

Secondly, it sure does validate that patented lawyer's line in our MMO terms-of-service about "game experience may change" . And third, we the community are partly to blame for being so succeptable to STAR WARS anything that we'll not only continue paying $$$'s to get a game rug yanked from underneath us over & over , but also crave it so much we pay MORE in Cartel Market behavioral reinforcement.

 

 

 

Yeah that's what i'm wondering too ... Like, how the heck is BioWare gonna "balance" and "streamline" the ENTIRE GAME (10 years worth of content) in the next 4 months with a supposed low-budget & skeleton-crew?

 

I've been subbed since 2011 beta (2008, if we count registration date ) and, frankly, despite all the afroementioned yanking-of-game-rugs , i still have FUN playing this flawed but great game. And, unless SWG-2 comes out of the non-Disney woodwork, why quit SWTOR now?

 

./pep-talk BioWare

 

I have intentionally left these quotes intact since :

** I didn't want to leave anything out (accidentally)

** I believe that these three also reflect concerns from a point of view that seems to be genuine.

** NO I don't see things "exactly" like this .... but IMO there is a sound reason that these posts are here and there is a message there that really needs to be take to heart !

 

Additionally for me please add the following:

IMO:

 

** There will always be hope. Yes even in the face of what is apparently unfolding right now. And to be perfectly candid about it ... the shroud of the dark side seems to be covering the community. There is nothing I can personally do to change that. So much of that darkness is a direct result of changes that are SEEMINGLY ill-timed (again).

 

** I'm not opposed to change. Change is inevitable. Development teams have ALWAYS been reluctant to utilize suggestions or "Designs" from individuals in the community. ( Believe it or not I do understand some of the reasoning behind that philosophy but that is not the point or focus of this discussion).

 

** Untapped potential seems to be pushed out further to the point of a sad epitaph particularly when I know for a FACT that this team is capable of so much more ! When they do good .. it is REALLY, REALLY GOOD !!

 

** Yet the simple question remains: What has happened ?

 

** Will the stories continue to be shorter with less and less content. Will the content continue to wrapped in the disguise of longer and more tedious FP's ? We're not in any way telling the team what stories to write ... BUT PLEASE write them ...

 

** Will our companions continue to be left behind a brick wall sampling "The Cask of Amontillado" ? Fewer are wanted due to $$$. Which ones ( Frankly ... who's left ? Most have been killed off by now including Theron ! Please note: personally I'd leave Theron in the story. It was a mistake to use the kill him off option ... unless you have a way to "rescue him" in a side story for those who killed him off. It's not impossible ... but should be there to complete the story line. )

 

** Are there any plans for the future to get back to working the stories that made SWTOR ? OK ... you want to rework the mechanics ... that sort of thing. That's fine !! BUT DON'T FORGET the rest of the game ! Otherwise: what is the point ?

[Templock]

Why do any of you play this game at all?

[Nee-Elder]

Why do any of you play this game at all?

 

Probably for the same reason "hardcore" people like you post 15 times in certain threads?

 

(hint: cuz we still enjoy it )

Edited July 19, 2021 by Nee-Elder

[Severith]

Bioware be like.... Lets slowly "Streamline" and remove parts of the game over-time and call it Development/adding new features.

 

3.0:

-Streamline the skill trees into Disciplines because Hybrid-players are evil.

-Streamline Comendations and remove planetary gear vendors.

 

4.0:

-Nerf all 1-50 Content, level sync & removal of unique orange gear from heroics and class story rewards.

-Remove the carefully designed 1-50 progression in favor of alt-lvling.

-Lets remove companion outfits from class story rewards.

-Lets remove all unique stats.

-Lets by default hide all side-quests and remove their unique rewards.

-Lets remove all uniqueness from companions, abilities, animations, and gearing. Hk51 = Joke now.

-Lets Streamline all crafting.

-Lets Streamline and lvl-sync all group content and their rewards. Also lets let "Bolstered" level 10s into LvL 50 flashpoints.

-Lets let new players start with Lvl 60 chars and throw them into endgame content lmao.

-Lets Streamline all heroics and remove their original cutscenes and quest-givers, also no orange gear, enjoy a lootbox.

-Lets add Data Crystals to replace the replaced commendations.

 

5.0:

-Lets remove advanced class story progression because streamline.

-Lets introduce Galactic Command

-Lets remove Data Crystals...

-Lets make previously toggleable combat-forms into passives because hybrid players are evil.

-Lets Streamline all abilities by removing all utilities from base classes and making them advanced-class exclusive.

-Players don't need agency or fun alternative combat options they are too dumb for that.

-Again hybrid players are evil.

-Lets also just delete abilities and replace them with *******r animations because channeled abilities with cool animations are evil.

-Rip Flamethrower and others.

-Lets remove equipment drops from Ops lol.

-Lets remove Expertise because.

 

6.0:

-Lets replace the command system...

-Wow didn't streamline anything this update but don't worry we got you covered for the next one.

 

And now we are finally here.

7.0:

-Round 2 streamline of abilities under the guise of "Combat Styles" because Swtor needs to be playable on Console.

Cant wait for every class to lose 3 of their situational abilities because the modern gamer can't handle 2 quickbars.

 

*But more seriously, this talk of loadouts seems a bit odd considering my different loadouts could have 15+ abilities currently. It brings great concern they are going to gimp the currently available abilities of every class to achieve small 8-10 ability loadouts standardized across the classes.

 

All you have to do is replace a few things here and there, and it's almost the exact timeline for how Blizzard gutted WoW over the years. The only real question is "Do you feel that managing decline is success?" If Wow couldn't maintain it's numbers doing these things, with their superior budget, what does that mean for SWTOR?

 

The reason I've stuck with SWTOR over the years is that it is, or was, an improved clone of Wow's glory days, Wrath and TBC, and seemed to stick with that design philosophy. These new changes on the PTS completely destroy that philosophy, and distract from the destruction of gameplay with fluff (class switching and animations) that doesn't really add anything new, or dynamic to the game.

[ssupercid]

Why do any of you play this game at all?

 

I subbed to the game yesterday as a returning player without reading the patch notes.

I then realized my mistake after lvling for a bit lol. Hoping for a classic server that will never come. 30 days of sub so I guess i gotta play

Edited July 19, 2021 by ssupercid

[Tsillah]

Why do any of you play this game at all?

 

Mostly because of the old content and because it's Star Wars. Not sure why you ask the question though. Do you feel that if you have any criticism you must hate the whole game?

[Christie_Swift]

Summarized best by:

 

https://vulkk.com/2021/07/11/swtor-7-0-pts-guardian-combat-styles-first-look/

 

 

if AIN'T BROKEN why BREAK IT. :D

[OlBuzzard]

Mostly because of the old content and because it's Star Wars. Not sure why you ask the question though. Do you feel that if you have any criticism you must hate the whole game?

 

I actually enjoy some of the newer content too !!

 

I enjoyed SoV when it was first released ( but not the BUGS in it)

 

Heck I've even REALLY enjoyed KotFE / ET (after we got past the writers strike and selecting the wall of text to choose our "dialogues" ) ... I'm referring to the stories. I hated the gearing system.

 

Simply because there seems to be a genuine concern that MUCH of the game seems to either be on hold .. or flatly dead (never to be revived ??? ) and the current objective now the main priority .. Yeah ! I think that there is some reason for concern.

 

NO ! I don't expect the team to jump through the hoops I'd set in front of them. BUT will less and less indication that there are some things in the works on a more positive note ... " good grief Charlie Brown ... "

 

(Note: I also understand that a comprehensive schedule of EVERYTHING coming is going to another extreme too. And frankly just as wrong ).

 

I've said it before ... And I still believe that this entire matter has nothing to do with the skill and ability of the team to get the job done. IMO .. there's another part of this (and probably a BIG part ) that we're not seeing.

 

Frustrating !! ???

 

YA THINK !!

 

:eek:

[OlBuzzard]

Summarized best by:

 

https://vulkk.com/2021/07/11/swtor-7-0-pts-guardian-combat-styles-first-look/

 

 

if AIN'T BROKEN why BREAK IT. :D

 

I love that link !! Excellent. ( I'm not sure if I agree 100 % ... but it is an excellent attempt to put things in it's proper perspective) .

[Tashia]

it ruined Rift --- I liked it before they changed them --

after ... meh, I quit

[Kass]

Summarized best by:

 

https://vulkk.com/2021/07/11/swtor-7-0-pts-guardian-combat-styles-first-look/

 

 

if AIN'T BROKEN why BREAK IT. :D

 

Executives... it is 'always' the executives. And EA is a publicly traded company. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EA:US

 

So even though there are games like EVE Online that have thrived over more than 10 years of life, and engaged in 'evolution' rather than 'revolution' game development; or Final Fantasy XIV ... these games don't apologize for what they are and who their target audience is.

 

They simply grow their target audience!

 

If Bioware put its development time and efforts into STORY again, then that alone will grow the audience and subscriber base - and people will learn to play what they love, just like we all did a long time ago...

Edited July 19, 2021 by Kass

[OlBuzzard]

Executives... it is 'always' the executives. And EA is a publicly traded company. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EA:US

 

So even though there are games like EVE Online that have thrived over more than 10 years of life, and engaged in 'evolution' rather than 'revolution' game development; or Final Fantasy XIV ... these games don't apologize for what they are and who their target audience is.

 

They simply grow their target audience!

 

If Bioware put its development time and efforts into STORY again, then that alone will grow the audience and subscriber base - and people will learn to play what they love, just like we all did a long time ago...

 

 

[/ Two Thumbs UP] (man ... I wish I could find that emoji)

[JattaGin]

Summarized best by:

 

https://vulkk.com/2021/07/11/swtor-7-0-pts-guardian-combat-styles-first-look/

 

 

if AIN'T BROKEN why BREAK IT. :D

 

Those suggestions are fantastic. I love them. This needs to made more public. DEVS, READ THOSE SUGGESTIONS!!!

 

I copy my favourite ones here, because not everyone will be clicking the link. I advice to read the article though, because he gives detailed examples of his suggestions. It's really worth the time.

 

Adhere to a strict color code for ability icons, passives, and procs based on the type of ability or effect it is. This way, players can tell at a glance what sort of effect an ability have without having to read it. This color coding should be 100% consistent. No deviants.

 

This is genius. Why is this the first time I read about this idea? Why did I not come up with this myself? Even after playing for over 10 years (since beta), I would love that. It would make things so much easier and faster on many alts with for me unusual specs which I play only irregularly.

 

Reformat ability tooltip information to be more clear and concise.

 

Simplify damage mitigation on defensive cooldowns to be only damage reduction, self healing, reflection, and defense chance. Convert damage mitigation from Reduced Damage Taken, additional Armor, partial Absorption, and anything else to one of those simplified categories. Tanks could maybe keep things that buff shield chance/shield absorption.

 

Provide default ability layouts for each spec rather than just placing new abilities into the next available slot. By default, auto-hide abilities that are not intended to be used at all by the spec. This behavior is on by default but can be disabled in the settings.

 

Eliminate Internal/Elemental vs Energy/Kinetic damage type wording. Replace it with Armor Piercing/Bypasses Armor/Ignores Armor. This is the only meaningful distinction between Internal/Elemental and Energy/Kinetic Damage.

 

Reorganize, consolidate, and confine discipline passive effects based on effect type.

 

Streamline the stats. This one might be a bit more controversial.

 

Merge Mastery and Power (also Force/Tech Power) into Power. Your average player does not know or care about the difference. Having both do almost the same thing only creates confusion. This makes it very clear that Power just increases damage and healing done.

The crit chance lost by the removal of Mastery can be made up by increasing base crit chance and the amount of crit chance provided by each point of Crit Rating.

Shield Rating and Absorb Rating should be combined just like Crit Rating and Surge were many years ago. This will get rid of some gearing diversity between tank specs, but tank gearing is far more complicated than it needs to be and the shield isn’t even relevant on all fights anyway.

Defense Chance can be switched to a tertiary stat like Shield/Crit/Alacrity/Accuracy so that tanks still have to balance their gear around two stats.

Redistribute stat allocations on Armorings, Mods, and Enhancements such that Armorings only provide Endurance, Mods only provide Power, and Enhancements only provide a tertiary stat. Augments can provide Power or Endurance and an associated tertiary stat (Endurance with tank stats, Power with non-tank stats). This redistribution should help to retain the current difference in health and damage output between tanks and non-tanks. The rest can be made up through discipline passives. This will subsequently eliminate overly complex A/B/R variants and reduce the amount of required min/maxing.

Diminishing returns and stat thresholds should be indicated to the player in the character sheet. You shouldn’t have to look at a guide outside of the game to see this information.

 

I love the idea of redistributing stat allocations. Endurance to armorings. Power to mods. Tertiary stat to enhancements. This is really how you make the game easier for beginners, and as a veteran, I also like the idea a lot, because it makes so much sense, at least to me.

 

Again, read the full suggestion list. Especially the examples help to understand the points better. It's so good, I wished BW would just copy it and change their entire 7.0 plans to Endonae's (author) list. I would be quite thrilled, if his list would be the actual list of updates for 7.0

Edited July 19, 2021 by JattaGin

[Nickodemous]

Executives... it is 'always' the executives. And EA is a publicly traded company. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EA:US

 

So even though there are games like EVE Online that have thrived over more than 10 years of life, and engaged in 'evolution' rather than 'revolution' game development; or Final Fantasy XIV ... these games don't apologize for what they are and who their target audience is.

 

They simply grow their target audience!

 

If Bioware put its development time and efforts into STORY again, then that alone will grow the audience and subscriber base - and people will learn to play what they love, just like we all did a long time ago...

 

I agree here. Although I spend a lot of time pvp'ing, I am an old star wars junkie. I have the utmost respect for the writers in this game and do enjoy the STORY while I am not in pvp land. I think you are 100% correct though, an intense story (not a 5 min cut scene) could grow the audience and subscriber base. I think the player base often gets sidetracked as to why they really play.

[Darth-Obvious]

All you have to do is replace a few things here and there, and it's almost the exact timeline for how Blizzard gutted WoW over the years. The only real question is "Do you feel that managing decline is success?" If Wow couldn't maintain it's numbers doing these things, with their superior budget, what does that mean for SWTOR?

 

It means SWTOR will continue on the same way that games like Age of Conan, Star Trek Online, Everquest, etc, have been for years now.

 

For as many people like you who like to speak in hyperbole and blow things out of proportion about how X,Y, and/or Z are the death of the game or whatever they seem to forget or completely ignore the fact that the survivability of MMOs tends to stretch beyond what people think.

 

Other than Wildstar how many notable MMOs have actually shut down in the last several years? But yeah SWTOR is now all of a sudden in real danger because of this specific change

 

The reason I've stuck with SWTOR over the years is that it is, or was, an improved clone of Wow's glory days, Wrath and TBC, and seemed to stick with that design philosophy.

 

Lol yeah right. Let's pretend that SWTOR was intentionally sticking to those dated concepts because that was their ongoing design philosophy and not because the game got stuck there due to lack of resources or technical issues.

 

These new changes on the PTS completely destroy that philosophy, and distract from the destruction of gameplay with fluff (class switching and animations) that doesn't really add anything new, or dynamic to the game.

 

Kind of like when they got rid of skill trees huh? People were saying literally the exact same thing you are now and yet somehow the game survived and continued onwards. I wonder how/why that happened?

 

This isn't anything new, and if you've stuck around through all those past changes you'll no doubt be sticking around through these too.

[Christie_Swift]

Executives... it is 'always' the executives. And EA is a publicly traded company. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EA:US

 

They simply grow their target audience!

 

If Bioware put its development time and efforts into STORY again, then that alone will grow the audience and subscriber base - and people will learn to play what they love, just like we all did a long time ago...

 

Agreed...Why break it if these are working as intended.

Just because some wacko kid wants to put pistols on a Trooper or a Jedi why break the whole system . There are other options like create more classes to satisfy other "likes".

 

Much more Story content over design revolution is a better business plan IMO.

[Darth-Obvious]

Executives... it is 'always' the executives. And EA is a publicly traded company. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EA:US

 

So even though there are games like EVE Online that have thrived over more than 10 years of life, and engaged in 'evolution' rather than 'revolution' game development; or Final Fantasy XIV ... these games don't apologize for what they are and who their target audience is.

 

They simply grow their target audience!

 

If Bioware put its development time and efforts into STORY again, then that alone will grow the audience and subscriber base - and people will learn to play what they love, just like we all did a long time ago...

 

Agreed...Why break it if these are working as intended.

Just because some wacko kid wants to put pistols on a Trooper or a Jedi why break the whole system . There are other options like create more classes to satisfy other "likes".

 

Much more Story content over design revolution is a better business plan IMO.

 

This is not true.

 

You both seem to be under the impression that Bioware can just do whatever/anything or that simply focusing would win people over, gain a larger subscriber base, etc, but KOTFE was a story-focused update and it was poorly received. It didn't grow their audience.

 

Focusing on the story won't change anything about the amount of resources Bioware Austin has to work with either so you're still going to be seeing year long gaps.

 

The idea that they could just do an all-new class is crazy. They would either need to funnel the entirety of their limited resources into adding a single class to the game, meaning no story content for all classes, no new group content, QoL changes, etc, or severely gimp the class (no class story, etc) to the point where it's not worth doing.

 

SWTOR more than anything needs or needed EA to re-invest or double down on SWTOR the way Square did with FF14 or the way Bethesda did Elder Scrolls Online. SWTOR as it is has major problems/issues that aren't suddenly going to be fixed by adding more stories or a new class to the game, problems for instance like the limited number of resources they have to work with that make doing those things difficult to do. You/they need to solve those problems first before making any kind of significant progress with the game.

 

The biggest problem to solve/overcome in all of this is how do you convince EA to re-invest in SWTOR when it makes money as is without them (EA) having to spend much money or take any kind of significant risks on it.

[Nee-Elder]

but KOTFE was a story-focused update and it was poorly received.

 

It didn't grow their audience.

 

 

Just curious, since apparently it's so umm "obvious" ...but do you have any articles, links, metrics, polls, or otherwise official data (not mere opinion) to support those ^ 2 statements?

 

Speaking only for myself & the experiences i personally witnessed and therefore can confidently quantify: I'm one of the many (or few? ) who not only became MORE motivated to login once KOTFE/KOTET updates were released but also our guild(s) grew in numbers (aka "audience" ) exponentially during those months of 'chapters'.

 

And even now, all these years later in this supposedly "dead" game (9 lives? ) , i still thoroughly enjoy rolling new ALTs and re-playing those 'chapters' (especially on master-mode , with guildmates on certain over-tuned boss fights ) ....and....whenever we get new recruits, assuming they actually like STAR WARS, most of them always come back to me and say how much fun they had playing those 'chapters' (upon my recommendation) .

 

But i'm just a Founder beta-tester who's been here since 2011 , so what do i know?

 

p.s. Isn't the nuanced truth that the health & success of a MMO like SWTOR is really predicated on all of the factors? (combat, story, quests, bug fixes, dev communication, QoL updates, space flight, exploration, rewards, PVP, etc. etc. etc. ...oh and that other factor---what's it called again?---COMMUNITY! )

Edited July 20, 2021 by Nee-Elder

[Darth-Obvious]

Just curious, since apparently it's so umm "obvious" ...but do you have any articles, links, metrics, polls, or otherwise official data (not mere opinion) to support those ^ 2 statements?

 

Wait so it wasn't obvious that story-focused updates to SWTOR didn't grow their playerbase by the millions? You know like how FF14 and ESO grew their playerbases by continually doubling down on their content, updates, etc, allowed them to grow as opposed to them focusing on a single aspect like story.

 

Speaking only for myself & the experiences i personally witnessed and therefore can confidently quantify: I'm one of the many (or few? ) who not only became MORE motivated to login once KOTFE/KOTET updates were released but also our guild(s) grew in numbers (aka "audience" ) exponentially during those months of 'chapters'.

 

Numbers tend to go up for MMOs when expansions release, but what were those numbers like compared to the game's numbers during the previous expansion or the expansion before that or even the next expansion which was also story focused.

 

The state of SWTOR has felt basically the same for the last several years now. The game had millions of players during launch then the population dropped off significantly and since then no update has come a long that has suddenly brought millions of new players (back) to the game.

 

You might say those kinds of numbers are ridiculous for SWTOR but it's not given that not only have other games like FF14 and ESO built up to it but because in order for SWTOR to continue on with the type of significant updates people want to see from the game needs to have sizeable enough playerbase to justify allocating resources to do that or Bioware Austin being able to staff up to the point where they can do that.

 

And even now, all these years later in this supposedly "dead" game (9 lives? )

 

Yeah it's weird that I've said multiple times now throughout this how Combat Styles aren't going to be the death of the game, how that's just more ridiculous doom and gloom hyperbole that comes every time there's big changes, etc.

 

Guess you missed all that.

 

i still thoroughly enjoy rolling new ALTs and re-playing those 'chapters' (especially on master-mode , with guildmates on certain over-tuned boss fights ) ....and....whenever we get new recruits, assuming they actually like STAR WARS, most of them always come back to me and say how much fun they had playing those 'chapters' (upon my recommendation) .

 

You must be seeing an entirely different audience of people because generally people tend to complain about how KOTFE's story content isn't as good as what was found in the vanilla game, or how every class sharing the same story isn't a good thing, or how Force focused the story is, that class companions show back up in unsatisfying ways only to disappear forever again, that a large percentage of KOTFE's gameplay is made up of killing hallways full of Skytroopers, and so on.

 

That's the stuff you found that people enjoyed really? And they loved going through it again and again on numerous alts with very little change to the story or overall experience?

 

But i'm just a Founder beta-tester who's been here since 2011 , so what do i know?

 

What exactly are you seeing from SWTOR that shows it's growing the way FF14 or ESO did instead of basically staying in the same place?

 

The numbers going up whenever a new expansion is released only for it to level back out again isn't growing, it's the same cycle repeating.

 

p.s. Isn't the nuanced truth that the health & success of a MMO like SWTOR is really predicated on all of the factors? (combat, story, quests, bug fixes, dev communication, QoL updates, space flight, exploration, rewards, PVP, etc. etc. etc. ..

 

Yes that's true which is what I was talking about. It's like you didn't actually pay attention to what I said and instead just quoted a small part of what I stated only so you yourself could just end up repeating what I said. Brilliant!

 

SWTOR more than anything needs or needed EA to re-invest or double down on SWTOR the way Square did with FF14 or the way Bethesda did Elder Scrolls Online. SWTOR as it is has major problems/issues that aren't suddenly going to be fixed by adding more stories or a new class to the game, problems for instance like the limited number of resources they have to work with that make doing those things difficult to do. You/they need to solve those problems first before making any kind of significant progress with the game.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Darth-Obvious