Combat styles are death of game

[Severith]

 

Let's not pretend SWTOR's quest design of "Kill 10 of These and Collect 5 of those" is anything special or that feels particularly great, especially when it persists throughout the entire game.

 

 

There's a heck of a difference between "kill the 10 guys right over there" in SWTOR and the "Kill the 10 guys in this completely different zone" in FF14. Don't believe me? Roll a marauder, and pick up all the noob quests in town. The first few hours of playing FF14 are literally just fetch/talking quests, and maybe 3 minutes of combat. It's not that SWTOR was innovative, it's that those first leveling experiences in FF14 are that bad.

[Darth-Obvious]

The first few hours of playing FF14 are literally just fetch/talking quests, and maybe 3 minutes of combat. It's not that SWTOR was innovative, it's that those first leveling experiences in FF14 are that bad.

 

And over time SWTOR gets worse. SWTOR might start better than FF14 but FF14 eventually gets better. The same can't be said for SWTOR it's either the same the whole way through or worse. Not to mention SWTOR is/was copying WoW through and through but now all of a sudden it's bad that they're being influenced by FF14 whereas them copying WoW has probably always been the biggest detriment to the game.

[goldladin]

And over time SWTOR gets worse. SWTOR might start better than FF14 but FF14 eventually gets better. The same can't be said for SWTOR it's either the same the whole way through or worse. Not to mention SWTOR is/was copying WoW through and through but now all of a sudden it's bad that they're being influenced by FF14 whereas them copying WoW has probably always been the biggest detriment to the game.

 

Depends who you're talking to.... I've made it through stormblood before quitting. I really don't see a shred of "it gets better" aside from the combat going slightly quicker... The story was nonsense and just not enjoyable for me. Hell while playing I even asked my free company of at least 13-15 active people "What do you guys think of the story?".... Very few commended it, some said they only watch the voice acted ones (Which is stupid because EVERY cutscene should be VA'd if they actually have the means too) and the rest said they didn't find it very enjoyable.

 

SWTOR, despite being sometimes being over the top, offered a fully voice acted and dialogue system when no other MMO has back in 2011/2012. FFXIV doesn't do that, it expects you to read a book telling a cohesive story that people like myself who aren't fans of the typical JRPG genre won't find fun.

[xordevoreaux]

And over time SWTOR gets worse.

That's opinion, of course.

 

My counter-opinion to that is over the past decade I've enjoyed the growth and development of SWTOR. I much prefer the SWTOR of today than that of when I joined July of 2013.

Edited July 15, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[mike_carton]

And over time SWTOR gets worse. SWTOR might start better than FF14 but FF14 eventually gets better. The same can't be said for SWTOR it's either the same the whole way through or worse.

 

I have to disagree. Strongly.SWTOR is very enjoyable during the Class stories. While opinions are more diverse about the subsequent parts, I liked what I played (not all parts equally).

 

The developers continue to make weird choices (*) and give too little weight to players' opinion but the game has been great.

 

To echo xordevoreaux: A lot of the very painful restrictions and mechanisms (especially gearing, QT discovery, travel speeds) from the early days are now gone making for a significantly better experience; just the gearing philosophy change - and democratization - from Ossus (and earlier) to now is a major leap in QoL.

 

(*) Like the plan in 2017 to make sure the DPS Disciplines are specifically designed to have different outputs (with Marksman and Telekinetics hitting the absolute bottom of the list.)

Edited July 15, 2021 by mike_carton

[Alssaran]

I have to disagree. Strongly. SWTOR is very enjoyable during the Class stories. While opinions are more diverse about the subsequent parts, I liked what I played (not all parts equally).

 

I agree. There are certain parts that I found somewhat lacking in terms of creativity, for example the overall lack of enemy diversity during KotFE with its Skytrooper focus, but I overall can't really complain about SWTOR these days. I like most of the new character cast and the faction-division within the story has returned. That's more than we had for almost four years and what we are going to get short of a "one of" class quest like Rishi. We're never going to have eight separate class stories of multiple hours again.

 

My counter-opinion to that is over the past decade I've enjoyed the growth and development of SWTOR. I much prefer the SWTOR of today than that of when I joined July of 2013.

 

I'd agree with this as well. There are a ton of things that are usually cited as "having taken away identity", but I always find myself disagreeing strongly with it. For example, removing the companion restrictions was a great addition to the game. I hated how my only healing companion on my Marauder was always the one I liked the least. The same goes for stat names, the skill tree and so on.

 

In my personal opinion, SWTOR's ease of access today and it's QoL improvements have (a few exceptions aside) mostly hit the mark and made the game better. And almost everyone I know who returns after a multi-year hiatus since pre-4.0 echoes that sentiment.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Alssaran

[Tsillah]

I have to disagree. Strongly.SWTOR is very enjoyable during the Class stories. While opinions are more diverse about the subsequent parts, I liked what I played (not all parts equally).

You do realise that you are actually supporting his point of view. The class stories is where it all began after all. For it not to be a downhill road in the case of the stories some expansions would have to be as good as or better than the class stories.

 

What I saw in the expansions is this (again purely focusing on story):

• RotHC - rushed out and as such the class stories were abandoned and we were left with the planetary story arc on Makeb. This also the reason why you can skip it and still play it later unlike other expansions...it's not actually part of the main story line.
  
• SoR - Decent story as such (in my view). Introduction of FPs to deliver parts of the main story (which is a negative for me). I really got sick of doing those FPs. Class stories definitively abandoned (except for the one quest).
  
• KotFE - Introduced single story for all. I didn't care for the story as it had a lot of plot faults and it effectively sidelined your character to a side character in the Valkorion family soap. Instances used to tell the stories but the story instances were artificially inflated to increase duration (I give you skytroopers). The monthly release was not met and didn't really work for anyone.
  
• KotET - Decent wrap up of the Valkorion family soap but many missed opportunities and unsatisfactory resolutions. Also the choice between two companions near the end felt totally contrived and was just shoehorned in.
  
• Onslaught - Very short story line introducing alternate realities in the main story line (the main events have the opposite outcome depending on which faction you support) to the point that they are contradictory.
  
• Legacy of the Sith - ? I suspect it will be short again. Hopefully it will be a good story where at least the main story line are the same events told from a different perspective. Unfortunately the trend of telling the main story through FPs is continued as we know already. And this is at the cost of explorable planets.
  

 

So this, in my view, is a downward trend because the stories have become shorter, one-size-fits all and partly in FPs at the cost of explorable planets. To me that is not really the way to go and the glory days of 1.0 with class stories, explorable planets, using FPs to tell side stories and stories that have more content basically are really just gone.

[xordevoreaux]

You do realise that you are actually supporting his point of view. The class stories is where it all began after all. For it not to be a downhill road in the case of the stories some expansions would have to be as good as or better than the class stories.

 

What I saw in the expansions is this (again purely focusing on story):

• RotHC - rushed out and as such the class stories were abandoned and we were left with the planetary story arc on Makeb. This also the reason why you can skip it and still play it later unlike other expansions...it's not actually part of the main story line.
  
• SoR - Decent story as such (in my view). Introduction of FPs to deliver parts of the main story (which is a negative for me). I really got sick of doing those FPs. Class stories definitively abandoned (except for the one quest).
  
• KotFE - Introduced single story for all. I didn't care for the story as it had a lot of plot faults and it effectively sidelined your character to a side character in the Valkorion family soap. Instances used to tell the stories but the story instances were artificially inflated to increase duration (I give you skytroopers). The monthly release was not met and didn't really work for anyone.
  
• KotET - Decent wrap up of the Valkorion family soap but many missed opportunities and unsatisfactory resolutions. Also the choice between two companions near the end felt totally contrived and was just shoehorned in.
  
• Onslaught - Very short story line introducing alternate realities in the main story line (the main events have the opposite outcome depending on which faction you support) to the point that they are contradictory.
  
• Legacy of the Sith - ? I suspect it will be short again. Hopefully it will be a good story where at least the main story line are the same events told from a different perspective. Unfortunately the trend of telling the main story through FPs is continued as we know already. And this is at the cost of explorable planets.
  

 

So this, in my view, is a downward trend because the stories have become shorter, one-size-fits all and partly in FPs at the cost of explorable planets. To me that is not really the way to go and the glory days of 1.0 with class stories, explorable planets, using FPs to tell side stories and stories that have more content basically are really just gone.

 

He's not supporting anyone else's point. You've raised class story as the absolute exclusive measure of the game's upward or downward trajectory over time, and doing so ignores what he's saying about ease of transportation and other QOL issues.

 

And, if you wish to cling to JUST the game's story, I see the KOTFE/KOTET and even the dribs and drabs we're getting as excellent additions to the original story line. Still clinging to just story as a measure of the game's trajectory, since that seems to be what you're doing, I'll add that yes, perhaps chunkier portions of story could be doled out at once, but Bioware isn't doing that, and for Pete's sake we should be used to that by now, so as we DO get portions of story, consider that some people might actually LIKE them.

[Tsillah]

He's not supporting anyone else's point. You've raised class story as the absolute exclusive measure of the game's upward or downward trajectory over time, and doing so ignores what he's saying about ease of transportation and other QOL issues.

No I haven't raised class story as the "absolute exclusive measure". If you're gonna read my posts do me the favor of reading them entirely. I did say "purely focusing on story" as a disclaimer after all. He said something about class story in that post and that's why I took story as the example.

 

And, if you wish to cling to JUST the game's story, I see the KOTFE/KOTET and even the dribs and drabs we're getting as excellent additions to the original story line. Still clinging to just story as a measure of the game's trajectory, since that seems to be what you're doing, I'll add that yes, perhaps chunkier portions of story could be doled out at once, but Bioware isn't doing that, and for Pete's sake we should be used to that by now, so as we DO get portions of story, consider that some people might actually LIKE them.

I do not want to cling to just the story. I thought I would keep my post to a decent size. If I had to describe every aspect of this game, it would be an essay or worse.

 

It's also my opinion, so you are free to disagree with me, but don't put words into my mouth. It really is bad form.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Tsillah

[Darth-Obvious]

Depends who you're talking to.... I've made it through stormblood before quitting. I really don't see a shred of "it gets better" aside from the combat going slightly quicker... The story was nonsense and just not enjoyable for me. Hell while playing I even asked my free company of at least 13-15 active people "What do you guys think of the story?".... Very few commended it, some said they only watch the voice acted ones (Which is stupid because EVERY cutscene should be VA'd if they actually have the means too) and the rest said they didn't find it very enjoyable.

 

SWTOR, despite being sometimes being over the top, offered a fully voice acted and dialogue system when no other MMO has back in 2011/2012. FFXIV doesn't do that, it expects you to read a book telling a cohesive story that people like myself who aren't fans of the typical JRPG genre won't find fun.

 

So basically because SWTOR's story is presented in a more cinematic way and fully voiced that makes it a better game.

 

Keep in mind I'm not just talking about SWTOR's story, I'm talking about every part of it vs every part of FF14.

 

You can argue about subjectiveness and opinions on story, combat, etc, but it's kind of hard to ignore FF14's growing success vs SWTOR's dwindling success.

 

FF14 in a number of ways comes across as the road SWTOR didn't travel. When SWTOR wasn't the massive WoW like success EA planned on it being the game went F2P there were layoffs, the game wasn't able to continue the way it was designed to, etc. FF14 post launch was in a very bad spot but rather than gutting it Square doubled down on and now look at where it's at. No Man's Sky, while not an MMO had a similar trajectory. Elder Scrolls Online started off in a very middling place but Bethesda doubled down on it and kept releasing significant updates to it and it continued to grow beyond what anyone expected of it compared to when it launched.

 

Now I understand Bioware Austin was never really given the opportunity because EA never allowed for that to happen with SWTOR and at the end of the day that is still the case with SWTOR.

 

That's opinion, of course.

 

My counter-opinion to that is over the past decade I've enjoyed the growth and development of SWTOR. I much prefer the SWTOR of today than that of when I joined July of 2013.

 

Yes, the quality of life improvements and things of that nature have been massive improvements to SWTOR but there are still numerous things that have been there since launch that are a serious drag or painful to playthrough, especially once you've gone through it on multiple characters.

 

Planets like Belsavis and Corellia are not only are way too big but nightmares to navigate through. It takes forever to get anywhere, too few fast travel points, pathways that are blocked off, etc, and as you're going from Point A to Point B with stretches of nothing to do inbetween begin to question why those design choices were made. Are things literally only that way to artificially lengthen the game?

 

If SWTOR's greatest strength is it's story telling is it really beneficial to the story to have the player go into a quest hub area, pick up several quests, go out to quest areas, come back to turn them in all one by one 30 minutes or an hour later at which point they've potentially forgoten or lost track of what all the stories were?

 

Think about how the starting planets are and how you're frequently you're hitting story beats, seeing new areas, interacting with NPCs, etc, compared to the later (vanilla) worlds where it's lots of vast stretches of nothingness between point A and point B.

 

I agree. There are certain parts that I found somewhat lacking in terms of creativity, for example the overall lack of enemy diversity during KotFE with its Skytrooper focus, but I overall can't really complain about SWTOR these days. I like most of the new character cast and the faction-division within the story has returned. That's more than we had for almost four years and what we are going to get short of a "one of" class quest like Rishi. We're never going to have eight separate class stories of multiple hours again.

 

I don't expect Class Stories to return and have enjoyed the more current story stuff returning to a more faction focused point but all the KOTFE still exists as part of the game. You have to play through it if you want to get the most out of the story and have to do so every time. To make things worse it's two expansions worth of content done the same way instead of just one. If KOTFE was just one expansion it wouldn't be as bad but the fact that it's two back to back really hurts what is basically the middle portion of SWTOR now.

 

I'd agree with this as well. There are a ton of things that are usually cited as "having taken away identity", but I always find myself disagreeing strongly with it. For example, removing the companion restrictions was a great addition to the game. I hated how my only healing companion on my Marauder was always the one I liked the least. The same goes for stat names, the skill tree and so on.

 

In my personal opinion, SWTOR's ease of access today and it's QoL improvements have (a few exceptions aside) mostly hit the mark and made the game better. And almost everyone I know who returns after a multi-year hiatus since pre-4.0 echoes that sentiment.

 

Yes, I agree with that as well. I liked all of those changes too.

 

My comparison between FF14's trajectory and SWTOR's is/was more that FF14 started at the bottom and since then has typically trended upward in what they've added or changed with the game. It's been kind of consistent in that regard while games like SWTOR and WoW it's been all over the place. Lots of peaks and valleys instead of a continual rise.

 

He's not supporting anyone else's point. You've raised class story as the absolute exclusive measure of the game's upward or downward trajectory over time, and doing so ignores what he's saying about ease of transportation and other QOL issues.

 

What have the QoL improvements really changed about playing through Corellia? You can go fast on your speeder sure, but can you now fly over significant distances, did they add more fast travel points, did they remove any of the blocked pathways that the map doesn't show as blocked pathways? The faster speeders helps a bit but not with any thing drastic and I still have to wonder why Corellia only has one fast travel point per the entirety of each map section.

 

My point being that despite the great QoL changes they have made there are still huge glaring issues that have never been addressed with the game.

[akdonkey]

Every update someone claims this is the death of the Game. It will be 10 years old. Keep up the predictions it will happen at some point.

[Toraak]

OP people claim that all the time. The only thing that happens is those that predict the end of the game leave, while the rest of us adapt to any changes and the game goes on. Nothing new here.

[xordevoreaux]

Every update someone claims this is the death of the Game. It will be 10 years old. Keep up the predictions it will happen at some point.

 

OP people claim that all the time. The only thing that happens is those that predict the end of the game leave, while the rest of us adapt to any changes and the game goes on. Nothing new here.

 

No truer words.

[SOULCASTER]

OP people claim that all the time. The only thing that happens is those that predict the end of the game leave, while the rest of us adapt to any changes and the game goes on. Nothing new here.

 

Or those people who complained are still subbed during and even after the changes anyway

[OlBuzzard]

OP people claim that all the time. The only thing that happens is those that predict the end of the game leave, while the rest of us adapt to any changes and the game goes on. Nothing new here.

 

yeah .. pretty much !!

 

IMO the only real legitimate concerns are :

** additional story content (and it looks like we're getting more of that )

** additional new companion stuff ( that still seems to be at a dead end)

** new combat areas ( that also seems to be coming )

** Killing off BUGS

 

While it may be true that there are legitimate concerns as to HOW the new system is carried out (mechanically) as well as the new UI (we've difficulties in the past in this area and STILL have some issues with the current NEW UI stuff) .. none of that means the death of the game.

[ceryxp]

No truer words.

 

I joined the TOR forums on 3 November, 2008. Predictions of the games early death have been around since then.

[Jephryp]

I started playing SWTOR late last April (2020), and I absolutely love this game. KOTFE/KOTET aren't my favorite content, and, since I've played them a few times through, I can happily skip from Chapter IX of KOTFE to Onslaught with no regrets.

 

I came over from Elder Scrolls Online; a game in which the devs change skills and add armor sets every patch; a game in which class imbalance is seemingly built into each patch to keep people on their toes and talking; and a game in which people complain incessantly and continue playing and subbing after the game is "ruined" every patch.

 

SWTOR is the most balanced MMO (class-wise) I have ever played. The class stories are fantastic. The voice actors are amazing. It kept content coming (albeit abbreviated) during a freaking global pandemic. By the time you get to the more abbreviated content (Makeb, etc.), you should have developed an affinity for your character so you're ready to save the galaxy many times over. I'm still having fun rolling new characters and choosing slightly different responses to see just how much I can change the story.

 

Will I roll a dark jedi? Probably not...I just can't get into that. Will I continue the story for my light side sith characters? YES! I want to see how that progresses.

 

Basically, I enjoy the game enough to adapt to the changes. I may not like them all at first, but I'll adapt, and I would venture to say that 90% of other players will as well.

[Tsillah]

I started playing SWTOR late last April (2020), and I absolutely love this game. KOTFE/KOTET aren't my favorite content, and, since I've played them a few times through, I can happily skip from Chapter IX of KOTFE to Onslaught with no regrets.

 

I came over from Elder Scrolls Online; a game in which the devs change skills and add armor sets every patch; a game in which class imbalance is seemingly built into each patch to keep people on their toes and talking; and a game in which people complain incessantly and continue playing and subbing after the game is "ruined" every patch.

 

SWTOR is the most balanced MMO (class-wise) I have ever played. The class stories are fantastic. The voice actors are amazing. It kept content coming (albeit abbreviated) during a freaking global pandemic. By the time you get to the more abbreviated content (Makeb, etc.), you should have developed an affinity for your character so you're ready to save the galaxy many times over. I'm still having fun rolling new characters and choosing slightly different responses to see just how much I can change the story.

 

Will I roll a dark jedi? Probably not...I just can't get into that. Will I continue the story for my light side sith characters? YES! I want to see how that progresses.

 

Basically, I enjoy the game enough to adapt to the changes. I may not like them all at first, but I'll adapt, and I would venture to say that 90% of other players will as well.

 

That's certainly fair enough. I think though that you can also understand that more and more levels without new skills and now suddenly having to choose between skills, that you all got before, just doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

[Jephryp]

That's certainly fair enough. I think though that you can also understand that more and more levels without new skills and now suddenly having to choose between skills, that you all got before, just doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

 

I can absolutely understand the frustration, to be certain. I just wanted to add a bit of perspective. I HATED the sweeping changes introduced every patch in ESO. It was maddening. One patch, sorc was the be all end all of dps; the next it was relegated to crafting status while nightblade was the new king; all the while, the gear set you worked SO hard to obtain in the right trait (of at least nine) was made obsolete, and you had to grind out new gear in new content (or even old content because they decided to update old armor sets). From a developer and "making money" standpoint, it was pretty smart. As a player, I got sick of it. SWTOR is MUCH better in that respect. Tech frags are a godsend. Hello Gathering Storm armor set!

[xordevoreaux]

I can absolutely understand the frustration, to be certain. I just wanted to add a bit of perspective. I HATED the sweeping changes introduced every patch in ESO. It was maddening. One patch, sorc was the be all end all of dps; the next it was relegated to crafting status while nightblade was the new king; all the while, the gear set you worked SO hard to obtain in the right trait (of at least nine) was made obsolete, and you had to grind out new gear in new content (or even old content because they decided to update old armor sets). From a developer and "making money" standpoint, it was pretty smart. As a player, I got sick of it. SWTOR is MUCH better in that respect. Tech frags are a godsend. Hello Gathering Storm armor set!

 

That was the same problem end-game on Everquest 2 back in 2014. Spend your entire career chasing stats most appropriate for your class, and then come to find out with the latest expansion you need 600 in criticality to even enter some zones, and then the whole point of doing THAT is just to grind more gear, so you can enter the next zone, so you can grind more gear. Everquest 2 has lore, definitely, but nothing like the lead-you-by-the-nose storyline of SWTOR, so without strong story, Evergrind has definitely earned its moniker.

Edited July 16, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[TrixxieTriss]

yeah .. pretty much !!

 

IMO the only real legitimate concerns are :

** additional story content (and it looks like we're getting more of that )

** additional new companion stuff ( that still seems to be at a dead end)

** new combat areas ( that also seems to be coming )

** Killing off BUGS

 

While it may be true that there are legitimate concerns as to HOW the new system is carried out (mechanically) as well as the new UI (we've difficulties in the past in this area and STILL have some issues with the current NEW UI stuff) .. none of that means the death of the game.

 

You should jump on the PTS and do some testing with us.

[LordDelectus]

I agree with you. The game has diversity. The Feast of Prosperity was a fun twist on grind for rewards. The story stuff is fantastic, we have different worlds, tons of NPC's, events, quests of various varieties and space Barbie dream house. There is always going to be a fetch and kill component to any RPG. No different than the dungeon to boss dynamic that is in most games.

 

I have to disagree. Strongly.SWTOR is very enjoyable during the Class stories. While opinions are more diverse about the subsequent parts, I liked what I played (not all parts equally).

 

The developers continue to make weird choices (*) and give too little weight to players' opinion but the game has been great.

 

To echo xordevoreaux: A lot of the very painful restrictions and mechanisms (especially gearing, QT discovery, travel speeds) from the early days are now gone making for a significantly better experience; just the gearing philosophy change - and democratization - from Ossus (and earlier) to now is a major leap in QoL.

 

(*) Like the plan in 2017 to make sure the DPS Disciplines are specifically designed to have different outputs (with Marksman and Telekinetics hitting the absolute bottom of the list.)

[OlBuzzard]

You should jump on the PTS and do some testing with us.

 

The only thing being tested is the JG ... right ?

 

Smuggler / Trooper and (possibly JK) ... yeah I can do those. I only did one of the Guardian and frankly hated it so much (story AND mechanics) ... I never made another one. I doubt seriously I'd be an affective analysist.

 

Smuggler and Trooper especially .. that is another matter ! ! I thoroughly enjoy both! (BTW... please note I didn't like ALL of the stories for Smuggler or Trooper vanilla ).

 

And YES I do plan on testing BOTH extensively.

 

BTW.. please don't overlook what I'm really driving at.

 

** If the new mechanics aren't botched .. and even if some of the "fluff" combat actions are removed in favor of adding additional moves from other classes .. that MIGHT work. (hard to say at this stage).

 

** As so many others have stated (better than I have evidently) ... there are a lot of OTHER areas that have been neglected for so long that it would have been JUST as prudent to address some of those concerns with EQUAL priority.

 

The absence of any information regarding those "concerns" IMO is what seems to be driving such a negative review of other changes as well.

 

"The force seeks balance" .... Perhaps there is something to be said about keeping "balance" in keeping SWTOR alive and THRIVING as opposed to alive and limping along!

 

(Just a thought) ..

 

Yeah .. Trust me. The old man gets it !! Which side is the bread buttered on ?

[kirorx]

I was down with this update as it was presented to us; but, having played PTS now, I am a bit confused by the changes.

 

If anyone has not played the PTS yet, you need to log in give it a shot. The classes are losing abilities.

 

While, I guess I can understand "pruning" certain abilities, having to choose between enure and saber reflect on my Jedi Knight Tank, just feels like we are losing commonly used abilities.

 

It's pretty early in the process so I am not going to be a debbie downer, but I have also been here since launch and have yet to see anything come out on PTS that doesn't get implemented in game.

 

If you are going by the "sales pitch" on combat class changes, I would say it sounds awesome, but if you have tried PTS so far it just feels like we are losing abilities in favor of simple game play

Edited July 16, 2021 by kirorx

[kirorx]

The only thing being tested is the JG ... right ?

 

Smuggler / Trooper and (possibly JK) ... yeah I can do those. I only did one of the Guardian and frankly hated it so much (story AND mechanics) ... I never made another one. I doubt seriously I'd be an affective analysist.

 

Smuggler and Trooper especially .. that is another matter ! ! I thoroughly enjoy both! (BTW... please note I didn't like ALL of the stories for Smuggler or Trooper vanilla ).

 

And YES I do plan on testing BOTH extensively.

 

BTW.. please don't overlook what I'm really driving at.

 

** If the new mechanics aren't botched .. and even if some of the "fluff" combat actions are removed in favor of adding additional moves from other classes .. that MIGHT work. (hard to say at this stage).

 

** As so many others have stated (better than I have evidently) ... there are a lot of OTHER areas that have been neglected for so long that it would have been JUST as prudent to address some of those concerns with EQUAL priority.

 

The absence of any information regarding those "concerns" IMO is what seems to be driving such a negative review of other changes as well.

 

"The force seeks balance" .... Perhaps there is something to be said about keeping "balance" in keeping SWTOR alive and THRIVING as opposed to alive and limping along!

 

(Just a thought) ..

 

Yeah .. Trust me. The old man gets it !! Which side is the bread buttered on ?

 

Just try it out now. There is no Guarantee that we will test every class, plus if you dont like it, I would advise speaking up sooner than later on the PTS forums

 

As far as "extensive testing" There isnt much to test. You load in and click the NPC and you will see that we only have about 65% of the abilities we had before.

Edited July 16, 2021 by kirorx