In favor of ability pruning

[TrixxieTriss]

I absolutely support ability pruning. Please it will make game so much better and far more enjoyable. I played WoW arena at 3k+ for years and want to play SWTOR PVP but its very frustrating. You can't really enjow matches and FEEL how it flows with overcompicated stuff.

 

Lmao, wow combat is similar. Just spend some time to learn your abilities or go back to playing wow pvp. The rest of us who pvp know and use all our abilities in swtor and it’s not that hard.

[Nee-Elder]

Lmao, wow combat is similar. Just spend some time to learn your abilities or go back to playing wow pvp. The rest of us who pvp know and use all our abilities in swtor and it’s not that hard.

 

QFE ^

 

My problem has never been the "too many skills to manage" aspect.

 

My problem, as a HEALER (in Ranked ) has always been: What the heck am i supposed to do when i get perma-ganked & stun-locked within first minute of the arena WZ ?

 

I hightly doubt 7.0 "revamp" is gonna help me with that though.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Nee-Elder

[TevosisHot]

I absolutely support ability pruning. Please it will make game so much better and far more enjoyable. I played WoW arena at 3k+ for years and want to play SWTOR PVP but its very frustrating. You can't really enjow matches and FEEL how it flows with overcompicated stuff.

I absolutely support you go back to play Wow if learning a few abilities is so hard for you, why should a 10 year old game change everything just to be like wow? And all the people that enjoy their abilities as they are? **** em right?

[TrixxieTriss]

I absolutely support you go back to play Wow if learning a few abilities is so hard for you, why should a 10 year old game change everything just to be like wow? And all the people that enjoy their abilities as they are? **** em right?

 

And most of the failures this game has had over the years is because the devs try to copy WoW too much instead of original ideas or looking at other games that do things better.

 

Or ideally, stop changing something for the sake of change and making something that’s already working well become less than it is or should be. (which is what these changes feel like).

 

If anything, BioWare should look at what’s actually worked best for pvp in SWTOR (not WoW). And I would point them to the swtor era of 3.6 to 4.x being the golden age of swtor pvp.

[Nee-Elder]

 

I'm saying PLEASE take away some buttons..

 

hey OP, i'm onto you! ---> https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995615

[DeannaVoyager]

 

The devs are in this to grow the player base. If they can't because most people tune out because of too many abilities, then they are going to adjust it.

 

They are in this to replace the player base, not grow. They want to get rid of veterans because veterans ask for more content, less nerfing, less idiotic changes no-one asked for (such as the social bar). When they'll get rid of veterans, their life will be easier because new players will have "new" content for quite some time until they also run out of it. Then they just replace the player base again.

 

Player base might get bigger for a short period of time every now and then, but veterans will be gone and they don't care about that. They have to work less with the new, disposable players.

[TrixxieTriss]

They are in this to replace the player base, not grow. They want to get rid of veterans because veterans ask for more content, less nerfing, less idiotic changes no-one asked for (such as the social bar). When they'll get rid of veterans, their life will be easier because new players will have "new" content for quite some time until they also run out of it. Then they just replace the player base again.

 

Player base might get bigger for a short period of time every now and then, but veterans will be gone and they don't care about that. They have to work less with the new, disposable players.

 

Yeah, but the veterans are whats holding the game together. Unless Bioware have twice as many “new” players to bring in and get hooked, then the game will flop within months if their idea is to replace the veterans with new players. So I doubt that’s the plan.

[DjiiniTwo]

Genuine no offense, but there sure are a lot of people in here who have pretty poor concentration, if the number of abilities in SWTOR is truly 'too much' for them. If this game gets any simpler I'm gonna fall asleep playing it.

[casirabit]

While there might be some advantages of ability pruning the problem is they probably going to prune abilities that we use because they don't have any idea how each of us play. Example: They have taken Force Clarity out of the ability and that ability is in one of the set bonuses. Did they consider that? I would have to say most likely not. They seem to try to be doing what they think is best and unfortunely I have been here long enough to see how many times that backfires in their faces and I am afraid this will be another one and I am not sure they can afford another mistake like this.

[casirabit]

Yeah, but the veterans are whats holding the game together. Unless Bioware have twice as many “new” players to bring in and get hooked, then the game will flop within months if their idea is to replace the veterans with new players. So I doubt that’s the plan.

 

Agree and most new players do not stay around long. When something new comes along they leave and where will that leave them?

[Omega]

While there might be some advantages of ability pruning the problem is they probably going to prune abilities that we use because they don't have any idea how each of us play. Example: They have taken Force Clarity out of the ability and that ability is in one of the set bonuses. Did they consider that? I would have to say most likely not. They seem to try to be doing what they think is best and unfortunely I have been here long enough to see how many times that backfires in their faces and I am afraid this will be another one and I am not sure they can afford another mistake like this.

 

Or:

(A) the old endgame sets are going to be phased out in favor of new set bonuses, just like every other time there has been a level cap increase...duh; and/or

(B) its not the final build.

 

One way or the other, its more likely they've thought this through and you're jumping the gun than it is that they are massively incompetent and just forgot an ability exists.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Omega

[TrixxieTriss]

While there might be some advantages of ability pruning the problem is they probably going to prune abilities that we use because they don't have any idea how each of us play. Example: They have taken Force Clarity out of the ability and that ability is in one of the set bonuses. Did they consider that? I would have to say most likely not. They seem to try to be doing what they think is best and unfortunely I have been here long enough to see how many times that backfires in their faces and I am afraid this will be another one and I am not sure they can afford another mistake like this.

 

From one vet to another, I totally agree.

We’ve seen this happen time and again and we always lose more players than we gain from the ill formed choices Bioware make without consultation with the community before setting things so they can’t be changed.

Too often they put stuff on the pts and ask for feedback that they totally ignore.

So they have either already decided our feedback will be ignored or they put it on the pts past the time they can do any meaningful changes.

Which makes me wonder why they even bother because all it does is piss the players off who spend valuable time testing and providing feedback.

Half the time they don’t even fix the bugs we find months ahead of a launch.

It feels like our time could be better spent doing just about anything else than testing and being ignored.

[TrixxieTriss]

One way or the other, its more likely they've thought this through and you're jumping the gun than it is that they are massively incompetent and just forgot an ability exists.

 

But time and again we’ve seen the complete opposite of competence from Bioware. And Casi isn’t wrong, sometimes the head doesn’t talk to the rest of brain (dev team).

To use your gun analogy, us vets have seen Bioware shoot themselves so many times from poorly thought out changes that they should all look like Swiss cheese by now.

 

The game simply can’t afford another monumental mistake as we literally don’t have enough players this time to absorb such a loss of players. Even a medium size blunder could be enough with our low population to be the death of the game. And that’s not hyperbole like most of “the game is dying” rhetoric. It’s looking at how many servers we have and how populated they are.

 

Edit: which just makes me wonder if Bioware are planning an unannounced merge with 7.0. With so much change being made to the code and UI, maybe they’ve finally found a way so that people won’t lose their character names?

And to be clear, I’m not advocating a merge, but with the two EU language servers being practically dead and Satele Shan shrinking week on week, it is their next logical step if Bioware want enough players per server to play some group content.

Edited July 27, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[LordCamTheGreat]

Considering how focused defence also wasn't on Vigilance at all, but didn't appear as an ABC choice and had passives that affect it, I would not be surprised at all if they just forgot about Force Clarity and we see it on the Sentinel this week.

 

On the other hand, out of all the excess button abilities the devs are wanting to remove, it would be the one to remove and replace with a passive( if at all).

[Omega]

But time and again we’ve seen the complete opposite of competence from Bioware. And Casi isn’t wrong, sometimes the head doesn’t talk to the rest of brain (dev team).

To use your gun analogy, us vets have seen Bioware shoot themselves so many times from poorly thought out changes that they should all look like Swiss cheese by now.

 

The game simply can’t afford another monumental mistake as we literally don’t have enough players this time to absorb such a loss of players. Even a medium size blunder could be enough with our low population to be the death of the game. And that’s not hyperbole like most of “the game is dying” rhetoric. It’s looking at how many servers we have and how populated they are.

 

You're ignoring the fact that the game is CURRENTLY bleeding out as is. This past year, the playerbase was only kept at a decent level from bringing in new blood due to general Star Wars hype.

 

They need to do something to keep the game alive, so they might as well give a combat/ability revamp a try, see if they can bring in new players and keep them this time, without scaring them off with the outdated system that's been in place for a decade. Otherwise, all you end up with is a bunch of "veterans" standing around, congratulating each other for "keeping the community alive" as the Titanic sinks around them.

 

And regarding that concept of "veterans as the pillars of the community"...its hilarious. There's currently two different threads on the front page of r/swtor discussing rude vets kicking new players from FPs without trying to help them. It's even more laughable when such a huge portion of the player base doesn't even bother with the multiplayer content.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Omega

[Sareeph]

The game simply can’t afford another monumental mistake as we literally don’t have enough players this time to absorb such a loss of players. Even a medium size blunder could be enough with our low population to be the death of the game. And that’s not hyperbole like most of “the game is dying” rhetoric. It’s looking at how many servers we have and how populated they are.

 

Listen closely to this

of the stream where Keith is talking about what is in store for us. Especially around 11:40 through 11:44. He says something that has me wondering "Where?".

[Omega]

Listen closely to this

of the stream where Keith is talking about what is in store for us. Especially around 11:40 through 11:44. He says something that has me wondering "Where?".

 

I will love the absolute meltdown that will ensue after they announce "SWTOR coming to Switch and mobile platforms in 2022". I'll have to start stocking up on popcorn from now.

 

That would be a reasonable next step and motivation for them to be streamlining the combat, so its more adaptable to controller play.

[TrixxieTriss]

You're ignoring the fact that the game is CURRENTLY bleeding out as is. This past year, the playerbase was only kept at a decent level from bringing in new blood due to general Star Wars hype.

 

They need to do something to keep the game alive, so they might as well give a combat/ability revamp a try, see if they can bring in new players and keep them this time, without scaring them off with the outdated system that's been in place for a decade. Otherwise, all you end up with is a bunch of "veterans" standing around, congratulating each other for "keeping the community alive" as the Titanic sinks around them.

 

And regarding that concept of "veterans as the pillars of the community"...its hilarious. There's currently two different threads on the front page of r/swtor discussing rude vets kicking new players from FPs without trying to help them. It's even more laughable when such a huge portion of the player base doesn't even bother with the multiplayer content.

 

There is a difference between vets and toxic idiots. Please don’t lump us all into the toxic box just cause we love the game and have been supporting it for many years, some of us since launch!

 

The long term players that have stuck it out through thick and thin are the pillars on whats kept this game from collapsing. And without them you wouldn’t have web guides or player community contributors who go out of their way to help the player base because they love the game and want it to be better.

 

The biggest issue is there are so few players left now that the few toxic idiots that are around stand out more because you see them more. They certainly aren’t the majority or normal for most vet players.

 

But if you think the game will continue past a few months if Bioware drive off all the vets that have paid the bills and wages with their subs and kept the lights on for 10 years, you are deluding yourself.

 

Fly by night players who come and go at a whim and free to play players don’t pay for development, long term subscribers and CM whales keep this game going.

Edited July 27, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Nee-Elder]

 

Fly by night players who come and go at a whim and free to play players don’t pay for development.

 

long term subscribers and CM whales keep this game going.

 

QFE !! ... although ...i sure would love to see actual BioWare 'metrics' , so we could validate that ^ feeling to all the other forum peeps & playuh haytah's

[casirabit]

There is a difference between vets and toxic idiots. Please don’t lump us all into the toxic box just cause we love the game and have been supporting it for many years, some of us since launch!

 

The long term players that have stuck it out through thick and thin are the pillars on whats kept this game from collapsing. And without them you wouldn’t have web guides or player community contributors who go out of their way to help the player base because they love the game and want it to be better.

 

The biggest issue is there are so few players left now that the few toxic idiots that are around stand out more because you see them more. They certainly aren’t the majority or normal for most vet players.

 

But if you think the game will continue past a few months if Bioware drive off all the vets that have paid the bills and wages with their subs and kept the lights on for 10 years, you are deluding yourself.

 

Fly by night players who come and go at a whim and free to play players don’t pay for development, long term subscribers and CM whales keep this game going.

 

 

Agreed. There are always going to be toxic players and even some new members can be just as toxic. Lumping everyone in that category is a self-serving reason. Most of the vets I know will help new players and even will give them items to help them get started.

[shalashaskaxxx]

Lmao, wow combat is similar. Just spend some time to learn your abilities or go back to playing wow pvp. The rest of us who pvp know and use all our abilities in swtor and it’s not that hard.

 

Sorry to be rude, but your comment is pretty meaningless. It's not hard. It's just overcomplicated enough to make it braindead. I play SWTOR for a while now and guarantee that I have better PVP rating than you. It's not about "hard". The problem is that even on super high rating its a "who failed less" competition and not who played better. Proccess should be more intuitive. Its better to have 1 immobilize ability and 1 ability/perk to not be immobilized than have 5 abilities for both. Less abilities you have = more important how you use it. Right now PVP is a spam contest and a little bit about how you use your DC's, people use PVE rotation and either tunnel one hero either

make it a four chaotic 1vs1 matches. Almost no tactic involved, When was the last time you saw interesting fast target switches or 30sec healer CC chain? I saw high rating people on twitch using 1 to 9 bindings and clicking abilities using mouse. You can't achieve 2100+ in WoW with skill lvl like this. Ability pruning will help with that. Make it Less complicated but way more hard so it become easy to start and hard to master. Right now it's a 4vs4 killing moving dummies opertation's with no skill requirement

[juanmiranda]

Zion seems like one of the vocal loud people that the devs tend to turn to for bad advice because when they make bad decisions usually the minority of loud vocal loudmouths are the ones parroting said decisions. Literally nothing he had added to this discussion has been based in facts only his own opinions. To respond to OP however I believe SOME classes could use a FEW less abilities. I mentioned this in another thread. All classes should lose the random mobility abilities they were given like Mad Dash, Holotraverse etc. Especially sniper teleport which is the one of the goofiest things I have seen in this game so far. Good Sniper sure as heck doesn't need teleport. Bad Sniper doesn't need teleport because he will just get globaled before he uses it. Merc could use a few less abilities. Maybe drop the sticky grenade. I don't even think you need to use it for Arsenal and I would use fusion missile for IO whenever that is available. Maybe drop sweeping blaster or death from above? Remove reflect bubble to. That's really just a PVP ability and the people who allegedly in mass agree according to Zion that there's too many abilities should be able to survive just fine without it. Mara maybe get rid of the ability that makes you get instant rage so you can use berserk? I usually find myself forgetting it unless I am playing rank. Also remove crippling slash and just make ravage or something do what crippling slash does. I sits in a weird spot on my bar like with my CC's even though its not a CC. If devs wana prune stuff prune stuff that noone will really miss and just make it do what baseline abilities already do. There are 2 new MMOs launching at the same time SWTOR 7.0 does and personally for me after 9 years of playing this game I am gona have very little reason to keep playing(and paying) just for the PVP if I am gona be running around with 5 buttons to push. I can PVP in the two NEW mmos and just push 5 or 6 buttons but they are both Moba/Arpg style gameplay where a few buttons is standard. Not SWTOR.

[TevosisHot]

 

And regarding my speculation, I'm taking a guess based on the actions of the people who are more informed (ie Bioware).

 

I'd rather speculate that its going to rain when I see a meteorologist carrying an umbrella. They have the data and are taking action based on it. I don't need to see the weather report myself to know that they're more likely to be right than some random person.

 

Bioware knows best TM

because they have never ****ed up with this game before, sure.

They wanted feedback they got overwhelmingly negative feedback, they still on the same path. I don't know why do they even bother with pts at this point if I'm honest.

[Omega]

Bioware knows best TM

because they have never ****ed up with this game before, sure.

They wanted feedback they got overwhelmingly negative feedback, they still on the same path. I don't know why do they even bother with pts at this point if I'm honest.

 

You're not totally wrong, but you're also ignoring the fact that maybe they don't care about your feedback because these changes aren't meant for you.

[TevosisHot]

You're not totally wrong, but you're also ignoring the fact that maybe they don't care about your feedback because these changes aren't meant for you.

 

Well then me and my sub will go elsewhere, like it already happened with guilds and friends that have already left the game. Pts servers are usually for people that are playing the game, if they want feedback from casuals or future players they don't need people to test end game builds do they?

Edited July 27, 2021 by TevosisHot