6.1.4 Conquest Updates

[TrixxieTriss]

Team Ranked: Total Domination is now worth 100,000 points (up from 13,500).

 

I am sorry? 100,000 cq points? up from mere 13,500? thats extremely, insanely excessive. if it were up to 30,000 is more appropriate, 40,000 maybe but not 100,000? thats honestly an insane number.

 

No one plays team ranked. It’s a there as a massive carrot 🥕

[JattaGin]

Bioware, seriously, you will NEVER learn!

 

I feared that this would come. As always, when something was working alright and for everyone, you would mess around with it and destroy the fun.

 

NERFING is never the answer. I agree that there was some imbalance, but the solution is NOT to nerf the easier conquest objectives, but to UP the more difficult ones. Leave the easier ones alone. They don't hurt nobody! What's the problem if you get once per day some 4.000 points for selling trash? Who's game experience is negatively effected by this? Everyone can get those points. There is zero need to nerf it. There is no way of exploiting this.

 

With your new system, casual players and players with a lot of alts are screwed - again. I run between 10 and 16 chars through conquest since your latest big conquest update. It takes me enough time. I have a plan that I follow, otherwise I wouldn't have enough time to get it done. With your nerf, my plan won't be remotely doable anymore. I won't make a new plan.

 

Conquest had become the endgame of Swtor.

 

With this nerf - and I'm absolutely convinced that the things you are NOT telling in the OP make it even worse - you break it for many players.

 

You can try as much as you want: The people who are not into PvP and difficult group content like Mr. Kanneg's beloved NiM OPs will not do them, not even if you give them 100k for it. You learned this leasson in 2012/13, but you keep on trying and trying like Sysiphous wondering why it's not working.

 

When conquest becomes a chore agin, you ruined the only remaining fun game for many players, mainly casuals. I have literally done nothing else than focus on conquest since your big conquest update. Your upcoming changes will destroy the fun I have with it right now. What is there left to do for me, if conquest becomes a chore again and you try to force me to play content I don't like? Do you still not understand where your money comes from? Who funds this game the most? It's not the OPs community, not the PvP community. I can't believe you still make the same mistakes over and over again.

 

Play your way. For once you actually followed through with it.

 

And now you take it away again. So typical.

 

TL;DR: Don't nerf points. Up the too low points!

Edited September 17, 2020 by JattaGin

[DeannaVoyager]

Higher difficulty operations, especially MM, should award far more points for completion. Dxun (and any new op) should reward an incredibly significant amount of conquest points for defeating individual bosses in MM since prog takes quite a long time. In general, MM requires a ton more skill to do and this should be reflected in the number of points awarded.

 

I also think it would be good to give conquest points for defeating the combat training dummy within a certain amount of time to incentivize players to get better at the game.

 

^^ This.

 

They have pretty much doubled the cqp from MM ops, but that's not anywhere near enough if we compare it to other endgame mode: Team ranked weekly 100k cqp.

 

You need 8 competent players to do a MM operation, everyone needs to know how to play and be good enough to complete the ops.

For Team Ranked you need 4 players to win enough matches to finish weekly, however they can easily wintrade it if they are not competent enough. They all can even run two accounts to run against their own doubles.

 

That's not fair at all. Boost MM ops points to the same level, as it requires more competent players and it can't be cheated.

 

Also, considering conquest is being nerfed a bit by bit from alts and small guilds, how about changing the personal and guild goals back to what they were, or EV farming will return really fast:

 

2 million for large yield

500k for medium yield

200k for small yield

20k for personal goal

Edited September 17, 2020 by DeannaVoyager

[KendraP]

No one plays team ranked. It’s a there as a massive carrot 🥕

 

That won't work haha. I have no intention of doing team ranked despite the fact i easily have enough people to make a team. Its dead and absolutely no fun when it's not dead.

[TrixxieTriss]

That won't work haha. I have no intention of doing team ranked despite the fact i easily have enough people to make a team. Its dead and absolutely no fun when it's not dead.

 

Guess we’ll see. 100k for conquest guilds might be worth groups.

[Stradlin]

As for players joining because they think they can afk or some such for easy points, so long as the repeatable is based on medals that should not be an issue, they would have to actually play to obtain them. As to the number of medals required, may be make the target 6? That should be an easy enough target to ensure that people are participating without making the bar to high for new/inexperienced pilots I would think?

 

Yeah, that'd be in line with what Warzones have. Other alternative in this vein would be to increase amount of medals required so pursuing the objective would span across multiple matches. Unless my memory betrays here, I think such conq objective was there already maybe one week out of four or so. However, for no good reason, BW -removed- couple of GSF themed daily repeatables from rotation entirely.

[SmorgishBorg]

MORE INVASION TARGETS REQUIRED!!! If you hope to bring more players and guilds into conquesting perhaps more than 3 Invasion targets. Coal Mines and Mill Guilds tend to take the 3 worlds without effort. Bring this system UP TO SPEED!! 6 Targets Even 8 Targets would bring life into this part of the game for MANY guilds and gamers. Not many want to join the mill guilds to earn there titles on this part of the game and would like to win some 1st places there. There is NO REASON the system can't take more than 3 targets a week.. there is a conquest out there that has over 10 invasion targets. Please Update this INVASION TARGET part of the system to have more planets we can take past the Mills and Coal Mines! Been asking for this since 3.0 PLEASE show some love on the INVASION TARGETS aspect!!!

[ceryxp]

So, looking back at David Staats post, it is abundantly clear that the Chicken Little'ing that is occurring here is completely baseless and unwarranted. You can prognosticate all you like but Nostradamus was a hack and the information that has been put out so far does not support the claims of major nerfs.

 

Of the point value changes shown there are exactly two nerfs.

• Items: Credits for Junk is now worth 550 points (down from 1,750). -- point reduction
  
• Advancement: Hail a Taxi is now worth 550 points (down from 1,750). -- point reduction
  
• Starfighter: <Ship> Eternal is now worth 2,200 points (up from 600). -- point increase
  
• Chapters: Any are now worth 4,850 points (up from 3,000). -- point increase
  
• Operation: Master is now worth 13,100 points (up from 7,500). -- point increase
  
• Iokath: Weekly Mission is now worth 22,250 points (up from 4,000). -- point increase
  
• Team Ranked: Total Domination is now worth 100,000 points (up from 13,500). -- point increase
  

 

I do not see how two point reductions, for two activities that really do not deserve a high point value, constitute major nerfs when those two changes are counter balanced against all of the other point increases. Chapters are going up by ~62% (rounded up). The Iokath weekly is going up by 456.25%. The Team Ranked increase is a massive 640% increase. It appears that their intent was to give a cross section of the changes. They listed a couple point reductions for activities that require no effort with point increases to activities that represent solo, group PVE, and group PVP play.

 

Oh, no, I see the major nerf. Points for Credits is no longer in the 50+ brackets. Yep, totally going to ruin Conquest. I guess that will not be counter balanced with the new Conquest objectives.

 

Under the Events section every single thing listed is a point increase or a change for the better. The only point decrease listed is Relics of the Gree: Critical Missions, which is being decreased from 4,000 to 1,650, but is being made Infinitely repeatable (currently Daily). Meaning that running the Gree event on more than one character in a day is not going to feel like a massive decrease in points versus time invested.

 

Anyone who has afforded attention to my post history is aware that I am more than willing to criticize BW for the things they do (or do not do in the case of not fixing bugs that hang around for far too long (I want me decos back, BW))...once they have done something. We do not know the full extent of these changes. No, precedent does not apply. If we look at the recent history of Conquest changes we have update 5.10.3, which introduced XP>Conquest points, update 6.0, which was previewed on the PTS with resoundingly negative feedback for the Conquest changes (except from those who despise solo players), update 6.1.1, which finally reversed the ****-up that was 6.0, and now this, where most of the, so far, released changes are increases. As I said in my first comment, I hope they are not making Conquest into a second job again (a la 6.0), but I will reserve judgement until I have actually seen what they are proposing. What they have put out so far does not jibe with the backlash.

[Stradlin]

 

Of the point value changes shown there are exactly two nerfs.

 

I just hope they kinda look at the forest for the trees when it comes to what gets buffed, what gets nerfed.

Example: "Starfighter: <Ship> Eternal is now worth 2,200 points (up from 600)." As it stands, this objective is available maybe TWO TIMES A YEAR. It is utterly irrelevant how much or little they buff or nerf it. Objectives that truly matter are ones there each week.

 

In general, I hope they focus on putting more balance between different PLAYSTYLES, instead of just combing and rebalancing repeatables already in game. As it stands, everything that requires other people to even happen is vastly inferior conquest compared to stuff you can just solo. Stuff should at least be in same ballpark.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Stradlin

[xordevoreaux]

I just hope they kinda look at the forest for the trees when it comes to what gets buffed, what gets nerfed.

Example: "Starfighter: <Ship> Eternal is now worth 2,200 points (up from 600)." As it stands, this objective is available maybe TWO TIMES A YEAR. It is utterly irrelevant how much or little they buff or nerf it. Objectives that truly matter are ones there each week.

 

In general, I hope they focus on putting more balance between different PLAYSTYLES, instead of just combing and rebalancing repeatables already in game. As it stands, everything that requires other people to even happen is vastly inferior conquest compared to stuff you can just solo. Stuff should at least be in same ballpark.

 

Thanks, your mindless campaigning just made it a lot harder for a level 10 to reach their 50k. Good going, dude.

Edited September 17, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[xordevoreaux]

So, looking back at David Staats post, it is abundantly clear that the Chicken Little'ing that is occurring here is completely baseless and unwarranted. You can prognosticate all you like but Nostradamus was a hack and the information that has been put out so far does not support the claims of major nerfs.

 

Of the point value changes shown there are exactly two nerfs.

 

 

Read the 6.1.4 post again, this time a bit more thoroughly. Those were EXAMPLES. He didn't give a full list. You saying that there are only two nerfs, therefore, is incorrect. We've no idea how many are coming down the pike.

 

Below is just a small example of some of the point changes this has resulted in.

Edited September 17, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[xordevoreaux]

Hi all!

 

I wanted to take a moment and give some insight into the upcoming Conquest system updates you can expect to see with 6.1.4. As always, the following information is subject to change. Let’s dive in!

 

One of the things people were finally happy with, and thanks to a few loud-mouthed whiners, you ruin it for everyone else. Instead of nerfing, you should have given the whiners a way to throttle their conquest points if they wanted and leave the rest of us the hell alone.

Edited September 17, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[ceryxp]

I just hope they kinda look at the forest for the trees when it comes to what gets buffed, what gets nerfed.

Example: "Starfighter: <Ship> Eternal is now worth 2,200 points (up from 600)." As it stands, this objective is available maybe TWO TIMES A YEAR. It is utterly irrelevant how much or little they buff or nerf it. Objectives that truly matter are ones there each week.

 

Absolutely, but of the sample changes given only two are not regularly available: Starfighter: <Ship> Eternal and Team Ranked: Total Domination. Maybe it is significant that the two objectives that are not regularly available are both PVP related, but maybe not. Until we have seen the full range of changes judgement can not be passed.

 

I would hope that they publish a complete log of all changes, preferably grouped by their respective Conquest week (probably better to list all of the general, weekly occurring objectives together and then group the objectives that are specific to a specific Conquest with that label), but even just seeing it on the PTS, most people who are regularly invested in Conquest know the usual weekly objectives, will give us a broad picture of how these changes are going to impact the various play styles.

 

This is what happened with 6.0. People could immediately see that the changes in 6.0 would be detrimental to small guilds and solo players and voiced that to BW, but BW went ahead with them anyhow. Then backpedaled with 6.1.1. What has been put out so far is nowhere near the debacle that was 6.0.

[xordevoreaux]

Every time I'm starting to feel good about the state of the game, the freaking whiners convince EA that it's time to trash it again. YES, I'm feeling salty right now, and I'm blaming a small crowd for crapping up life for the rest of us.

[ceryxp]

Read the 6.1.4 post again, this time a bit more thoroughly. Those were EXAMPLES. He didn't give a full list. You saying that there are only two nerfs, therefore, is incorrect. We've no idea how many are coming down the pike.

 

Maybe you need to read my post again, this time a bit more thoroughly.

 

Of the point value changes shown there are exactly two nerfs.

 

Further down, in the section that you snipped, I even said "It appears that their intent was to give a cross section of the changes." That means these are samples. This is not a complete list. These are not all of the changes.

 

 

If what we see on the PTS is a fustercluck, if they decide, "yeah, the Iokath weekly that is getting a 500% point increase will only be a per legacy objective," then I will be one of the first people in line to buy a first class ticket on the let-us-bash-BW-for-doing-something-stupid-again train. So far, with what has been shown, the sample of proposed changes, does not warrant that as yet.

Edited September 17, 2020 by ceryxp

[Nmyownworld]

Shorter UI Popup Notification

Finally, we have made an adjustment and lowered the duration of the UI Popup for Conquest Objectives!

Thank goodness. If possible, adjust the duration to zero milliseconds. Make it go away. And, no new types of pop-ups, please. Don't shorten the timing of the Conquest Objectives pop-up, and then add another type of pop-up.

 

For the other changes, I'm in "wait and see" mode. I do appreciate the changes being available to the PTS.

[DawnAskham]

Every time I'm starting to feel good about the state of the game, the freaking whiners convince EA that it's time to trash it again. YES, I'm feeling salty right now, and I'm blaming a small crowd for crapping up life for the rest of us.

 

Agreed - more players need to express their opinions about what they like or don't like to balance out the obnoxious whiners, especially as one toxic whiner continues to push their entire guild to bombard the developers with demands many, if not most, players do not support.

 

I'm already on the edge with maintaining a subscription given the extremely slow pace of new content, another massive swing in something like conquest will push me to hit the cancel button again.

 

EDIT TO ADD: I'm all for adding more objectives and buffing those that demand more time and / or coordination, but I'm adamantly against more nerfs, and I find some of the changes listed baffling (such as the 100K for ranked).

Edited September 17, 2020 by DawnAskham

[Stradlin]

Thanks, your mindless campaigning just made it a lot harder for a level 10 to reach their 50k. Good going, dude.

 

Classy as always.

 

You truly think current conq system is so broken and such a massive cookie jar to have your hand stuck in, that all it takes is one single player posting some numbers on forums for BW to nerf it? That makes one epic projection....dude.

 

Maybe upgrade to a bit better sob story though: Typical new player with a low level character typically reaches conq target with an absolute ease without even noticing it. Without even knowing what conquest is. It has kinda been that way since XP->CXP. Or..you demanding that some unlikely armada of lvl 10 alts of a hardcore conq farmer should always be able to get those lvl 10 chars to conq target in 10 mins or something? What is "harder" or " too hard" in this regard exactly? How quikcly should you get a lvl 10 char to conq target to be happy? Like..let's talk minutes. What do you think is reasonable here? " I want to get my lvl 10 char to conq target in ____ minutes!!!! " Could you fill that?

 

In general, I think it tiiiny bit premature to complain about nerfs that are not even on test center yet.Based on OP of this thread, they remain busy coming up with even more daily repeatables for solo content insead of giving some to where they are most urgently needed.

 

 

As it stands, it should be undeniable there is a massive disparity between soloable, straightforward content and content that needs other people to even happen. Latter needs buffing urgently. Well, it HAS BEEN NEEDING an urgent buff ffor almost half a year now. I'm sure core of former (bazillion planetary dailies) will never be nerfed all that much. They don't put 100 daily repeatable missions to game just to take them away 6 months later.

 

I wish all playstyles will get such a generous helping of daily repeatables though. it is fun chasing them. In terms of balancing conquest income, daily objectives makes a very precise science. One can very accurately dictate how much or little conq this activity or that brings/day. No reason why having absolutely insane amount of them should be exclusively for planetary mission tourism. Wanna hear how many daily repeatables GSF has? two! (2) It'd be nice if every single multiplayer activity under the sun would have something like 12-20 daily repeatables available. Every week.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Stradlin

[xordevoreaux]

Agreed - more players need to express their opinions about what they like or don't like to balance out the obnoxious whiners, especially as one toxic whiner continues to push their entire guild to bombard the developers with demands many, if not most, players do not support.

 

I'm already on the edge with maintaining a subscription given the extremely slow pace of new content, another massive swing in something like conquest will push me to hit the cancel button again.

 

Oh we tried, trust me, in every freaking thread certain people started about the same topic. We countered every argument, nullified every bit of stupidity that they were calling truth that they tossed onto the forums, but in the end, noise, not sound arguments, is all EA hears. For EA to take the balance of a few people against everyone who countered them is insane.

 

You are correct. A hell of a ton more people should have nailed their blathering right into the ground, but so many people with a vested interested in what goes on in the game don't bother to react until EA has already coded and announced a release.

 

Wait until 6.1.4 hits. The people who don't ordinarily pay attention to the forums and are suddenly hit with the nerf are going to set these forums on freaking fire.

 

Another bad decision in a history of bad decisions by EA.

Edited September 17, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[Balameb]

not the weekly, the 10 wins. and yeah, when a guild can get 2 mil conquest(with 2 groups from the same guild wintrading) in about -5 mins per match cus again, wintrading, 20 matches for 10 wins each- 1 hr 40 mins, with 8 players willing to wintrade, not even counting the 35k*8=280k from the weekly, and the 51.9k*8=415.2k for the victoious objectives, and lastly the 22k*8=176k for the rally perk, you have a really big incentive to wintrade. and it's not like anyone in the group is gonna report them... anyway, essentially this means a guild can get what I would estimate to be about 2.875m for 1 hour and 40 mins of 8 people grinding /stuck's. this looks good on paper... but it goes too damn far

First i thought the same. But your numbers also show that it is not that out of proportion in terms of points.

2.875m for 8 players is around 359k each. You can probably get that doing heorics/weeklies in a similar time playing solo. If you group, then way easier and faster. And we know they may be bumping some weeklies (iokath is being bumped at least) and event areas.

Also (asking in my ignorance because i never actually played ranked), isn't 1h40min (5 min per match) too ideal? As in does the queue do not wait in between matches?

In terms of rewards may be better, but like was said before this is BW way of a carrot to make people try team ranked.

[xordevoreaux]

Point Rebalance

We took a thorough look at every Conquest objective and balanced their final points through emphasizing objective time to complete, complexity, and repeatability. The result is an abundance of Conquest points for some of the most complex and/or time intensive objectives, lesser points for marginal time and effort objectives, and an even scale for those objectives in the middle.

 

Players under level 30 do not have access to the higher-level activities that might garner more conquest points, and no one under 70 can run ops, so consider NOT applying ANY nerfs to players under level 30.

 

That way, brand new low-level Steamers and other new players who've recently joined us who may be eager to contribute to their guild's conquest won't feel like they're swimming through glue to complete their 50k.

Edited September 17, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[Stradlin]

Players under level 30 do not have access to the higher-level activities that might garner more conquest points, and no one under 70 can run ops, so consider NOT applying ANY nerfs to players under level 30.

 

That way, brand new low-level Steamers and other new players who've recently joined us who may be eager to contribute to their guild's conquest won't feel like they're swimming through glue to complete their 50k.

 

Hey, you can do GSF from lvl 1 and WZs from lvl 10. Wouldn't it be nice to bring some more daily conq objectives for these activities? That way, all those brand new low level streamers eager to contribute to their guild's conquest wouldn't be enslaved or restricted to planetary missions and garbage selling-tier of activities to bring a decent haul of conq. points.

 

I'm honestly not sure what sort of a personality it takes to make amp clicking that riveting stream to watch tbh.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Stradlin

[casirabit]

Hey, you can do GSF from lvl 1 and WZs from lvl 10. Wouldn't it be nice to bring some more daily conq objectives for these activities? That way, all those new low level streamers eager to contribute to their guild's conquest wouldn't be enslaved or restricted to planetary missions and garbage selling-tier of activities to bring a decent haul of conq. points.

 

And what about those streamers that hate pvp? Should they have to do GSF just for conquest points even if they hate pvp? You had a fit when you had to pve to get your points yet here you are telling people to do GSF even if they hate it. So it okay for others but not you? And you wonder why people don't listen to you when you throw a fit.

[Stradlin]

And what about those streamers that hate pvp?

 

Ideally, it is all about having variety of great options available. Those who love doing planetary missions for great conquest get to do just that. Everybody else enjoying any other playstyle been having tough luck for almost half a year now. Nobody else has the option to earn great conq via their favorite playstyle. "Play your way", like BW inaccurately declared applies if your way to play is all about doing planetaries Wanna help your guild by bringing in a ton of conq atm? Wellp, you better love running a ton of planetary missions. That's pretty much your only option. Every day, every week. That singular playstyle has almost 100 daily repeatables atm. Every single week. All the other playstyles should have even a dozen or so daily repeatables too.

 

That lvl 10 character from the previous sob story has two planets worth of planetary mission dings available already. That totals seven different daily objectives.(bonus mission, two slayers for each planet, and the objective for finishing two missions for each planet) For somebody who'd like to bring conq home via GSF, notion of having as many as seven daily objectives available sounds like some strange fantasy, lol. GSF has two.

 

Also, we could perhaps consider the wild alternative of that lvl 10 person maybe someday reaching lvl 11 and onwards. In practice, by the time he is done with those 7 conq objectives, he has brand new ones available already. Meanwhile, pilot is stuck with those 2 dailies. He has two at lvl 10. He has two at lvl 75.lol.

 

 

If they gave GSF even 10% of daily repeatables planetary tourism has, it'd be a massive buff.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Stradlin

[xordevoreaux]

Hey, you can do GSF from lvl 1 and WZs from lvl 10. Wouldn't it be nice to bring some more daily conq objectives for these activities? That way, all those brand new low level streamers eager to contribute to their guild's conquest wouldn't be enslaved or restricted to planetary missions and garbage selling-tier of activities to bring a decent haul of conq. points.

 

I'm honestly not sure what sort of a personality it takes to make amp clicking that riveting stream to watch tbh.

 

Conquest does not kick in for players until level 10, and you're the only one thinking they're enslaved, no one on the forums but you has ever posted anything about feeling enslaved, and it's all your characterization of other people, projecting your narrative on them.

Edited September 17, 2020 by xordevoreaux