In Praise of the 6.1.1 Conquest Overhaul

[Stradlin]

It's pretty simple Bioware / EA put in a system where people can do whatever they feel comfortable doing. If someone wants to play solo they can play solo or group up to do heroics or FPs or Ops or PVP or GSF.

 

Alas, it truly does NOT work this way as I've been stating time and time again. It is so weird how people can't just look where finger is pointing and go " whoa, all be damned. you are right. " when the sight is pretty undeniable. Instead, folks need to ignore topic discusses and chew the finger instead. Lets try once more. GSF and PvP have gotten their conquest nerfed. Reduced. These activities today make LESS than they did one week back. This when we ignore any brare exclusive to that week- bonus stafff and focus only in reliable core objectives that are always there This nerf came in a patch that OTHERWISE increasd overall conq made by 400% or something, Fair and balanced?

 

So it is not as you are stating at all. Simplistic aspects of solo gameplay give so much more conq much faster than grp play/content requiring other ppl. Why is it so hard to admit? What is the great harm that falls upon you folks if content requiring other ppl is brought to same level?

 

It took me 31 mins today to bring a character from lvl 1 to lvl 10 to fleet to conq target.From creating character to 50lk. gg.

 

As others have already stated people get more cq points because they can complete multiple actions at the same time while doing heroics on any single planet they choose. If you want to only play PVP or GSF then feel free to do it but

Yes, this is - because- it is so ridiculously imbalanced and broken now. It is the reason, not a justification. It is why pvp and GSF should get conq brought way up.Why is this so tough or unpleasant notion to swallow?Not sure what you mean by multiple objectives. I mean, facerolling 2 minute lasting planetaries doesn't require some super optimized crafting scheme running on bcground at all. Spend 2 mins with toxic bombs in Balmorra, there ya go, 20k conq. Loads of missions like this available. Every day.

 

I think the most likely alternative to what has happened is as follows:

BW decided to make conq more inclusive for new players. - A fine notion! Not that there were anything stopping them from doing conq before but i digress. BW introduced a nice real simplistic set of real simple conq objectives that fit new players well. - Ones that have reward adjusted for ppl with low level characters 0%SH bonus in mind. Due to some massive oversight, mistake or lapse in reasoning, they ended up letting characters of -all levels - to have free access to almost all of these. Taxi being the sole bit odd exception. Presto, a situation where Ppl with bazillion alts past 71 benefit from this in a massive way. Much more so than lowbies who got their conq rewards nerfed to ground.

 

Some new guy playing his 1st char and finishing conq at level 44 or something gets garbage as a reward. The Epic Dude who has 60 chars at max lvl is the one who reaps this garbage.

 

Above isn't the only aspect broken - Straightforward and fast solo stuff is still vastly superior to content that requires people and time. But it'd explain some of the most insane aspects present.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Stradlin

[DarkTergon]

Blah blah blah, rant, rant, rant, I'm right an the other 95% of the people are wrong...I'll stick my fingers in my ear and shout and complain till people listen...because i am right, and the world is wrong.

 

 

 

Anyway, PvP & GSF are part of conquest system, one you enjoy, which is cool, enjoy them. The bits you are moaning about are an ADDITION, it doesn't take away from what you do, it's actually something to add to your own CQ points, while doing what you like....say, just like people who pve, or decorate, or ops, etc. What YOU don't get is, it's not a bracket on it's on, it's not exclusive, it's an ADDITION. Now you can keep banging your head on the wall all you like, that will not change. No one is sitting there doing this day in day out and nothing else. Just like you, they are doing the content they enjoy, and doing the ADDITIONAL bits as well, which you can do. The allocation of points is not relevant, because they are different. If you can't see that, and see what a blessing this new system is, there is nothing anyone else here can do for you.

 

This Conquest more than the previous versions, is more alt friendly, more inclusive, and more people will benefit. The ONLY people who DON'T benefit from this are the mat sellers.

 

So unless you are a mat seller, and that is why you are complaining, then you are benefitting.

Edited April 27, 2020 by DarkTergon

[DarthAlastor]

Alas, it truly does NOT work this way as I've been stating time and time again. It is so weird how people can't just look where finger is pointing and go " whoa, all be damned. you are right. " when the sight is pretty undeniable. Instead, folks need to ignore topic discusses and chew the finger instead. Lets try once more. GSF and PvP have gotten their conquest nerfed. Reduced. These activities today make LESS than they did one week back. This when we ignore any brare exclusive to that week- bonus stafff and focus only in reliable core objectives that are always there This nerf came in a patch that OTHERWISE increasd overall conq made by 400% or something, Fair and balanced?

 

So it is not as you are stating at all. Simplistic aspects of solo gameplay give so much more conq much faster than grp play/content requiring other ppl. Why is it so hard to admit? What is the great harm that falls upon you folks if content requiring other ppl is brought to same level?

 

It took me 31 mins today to bring a character from lvl 1 to lvl 10 to fleet to conq target.From creating character to 50lk. gg.

 

 

Yes, this is - because- it is so ridiculously imbalanced and broken now. It is the reason, not a justification. It is why pvp and GSF should get conq brought way up.Why is this so tough or unpleasant notion to swallow?Not sure what you mean by multiple objectives. I mean, facerolling 2 minute lasting planetaries doesn't require some super optimized crafting scheme running on bcground at all. Spend 2 mins with toxic bombs in Balmorra, there ya go, 20k conq. Loads of missions like this available. Every day.

 

I think the most likely alternative to what has happened is as follows:

BW decided to make conq more inclusive for new players A fine notion! Not that there were anything stopping them from doing it before but i digress. They designed a set of real simple conq objectives that fit new players. Ones that have reward adjusted for ppl with 0%SH bonus in mind. Due to some massive oversight, mistake or lapse in reasoning, they ended up letting characters of all levels to have free access to almost all of these. Taxi being the sole bit odd exception. Presto, a situation where Ppl with bazillion alts past 71 benefit from this in a massive way.

 

Above isn't the only aspect broken - Straightforward and fast solo stuff is still vastly superior to content that requires people and time. But it'd explain some of the most insane aspects present.

 

Again as multiple people above me have said: While people are out on different planets doing heroics while in a group or by themselves they are completing multiple objectives at the same time. Points for killing x amount of enemies + points for completing a mission such as a heroic + sending companions out on crafting / gathering missions while also gathering items themselves on whichever planet they happen to be on as well as different bonus missions while completing the heroics and collecting the trash you complain about sending their companions off to sell the trash and having another companion helping them continue moving around from planet to planet if they haven't unlocked the legacy items that reduce the time it takes for a companion to return from selling trash. So again if someone is completing more objectives listed under the conquest tab in the time it takes you to complete one PVP or GSF match then yes they will have more points than you regardless of whether you choose to accept it or not.

[DarthAlastor]

Anyway, PvP & GSF are part of conquest system, one you enjoy, which is cool, enjoy them. The bits you are moaning about are an ADDITION, it doesn't take away from what you do, it's actually something to add to your own CQ points, while doing what you like....say, just like people who pve, or decorate, or ops, etc. What YOU don't get is, it's not a bracket on it's on, it's not exclusive, it's an ADDITION. Now you can keep banging your head on the wall all you like, that will not change. No one is sitting there doing this day in day out and nothing else. Just like you, they are doing the content they enjoy, and doing the ADDITIONAL bits as well, which you can do. The allocation of points is not relevant, because they are different. If you can see that, and see what a blessing this new system is, there is nothing anyone else here can do for you.

 

 

 

So unless you are a mat seller, and that is why you are complaining, then you are benefitting.

 

I am with you 10,000%

[MaximusRex]

Give few gifts to your companion. Sell vendor trash. Take a taxi. Recalibrate a mod on your gear. Do a few crew missions. Place 5 deco in your SH. Grats, you've now made more conquest doing some of the most straightforward, low effort and air headed things possible than you'd get by spending 35-45 mins in content requiring groups, group finders and queue pools. Do you truly consider that as good game design?

 

Yes, it is excellent game design because it rewards me for playing my 18 characters the way I want and for working toward the goals I want to achieve instead of trying to force me to group with players that no one wants to group with for some reason. I have done more to advance my Legacy this past week then I have been able to accomplish in months trying to complete conquest under the old system.

[DreadtechSavant]

Well, I'm just going to totally ignore Stradlin posts in this thread ( only this thread mind you) as he has started his own thread against it this already. However, I am more than happy to add my name to the OP's in praise of the new conquest system as it stands this week. Next week we will see as conquest could still change dramatically week to week. Edited April 27, 2020 by DreadtechSavant

[Dornaa]

I got 32 characters to Conquest cap this week. Before, the best I could do was 7 or 8 and that was during Trade week when I can craft to my heart's content. 32 was a pipe dream before the new system was implemented. From my point of view, this is great.

[Stradlin]

While people are out on different planets doing heroics while in a group or by themselves they are completing multiple objectives at the same time. Points for killing x amount of enemies + points for completing a mission such as a heroic + sending companions out on crafting / gathering missions while also gathering items themselves on whichever plan.

 

Yeah, no.

 

A) This is you explaining how planetary faceroll gives insanely good conquest when compared to stuff that requires other people. This is not you justifying why it is the case. I point out how ridiculously imbalanced this is. You respond by outlining where all the conq that makes it imbalanbced come from.

 

B) Ignore any and all supplementary dings that line up so beautifully and focus exclusively on those countless juicy 5.6k dings you get from missions themselves. - Facerolling planetaries is STILL vastly superior conq. Why is it tough to admit something so undeniable? What great harm falls upon you if you bring yourself to agreeing that this is indeed inbalanced?

 

Ofc, every single conq mission giving 5k as reward is far more in practice. XP from finishing the mission gets added on top of it. Example, I just spend 3 mins of my life doing Spring Thaw-heroic. When finishing bonus, I got 6300 conq from reaching the objective that grants 5k. That's exclusively from mission complete - xp you get from killing mobs and all that ignored here.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stellarcrusade]

Prediction:

SWTOR ignores all the positive feedback on the new system, and quietly plans how to nerf it.

 

Once changes have returned the majority of the playerbase to "hating the conquest system", then they'll stop nerfing it.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, that being said: Good job with the current system.

[DarthAlastor]

Yeah, no.

 

A) This is you explaining how planetary faceroll gives insanely good conquest when compared to stuff that requires other people. This is not you justifying why it is the case. I point out how ridiculously imbalanced this is. You respond by outlining where all the conq that makes it imbalanbced come from.

 

B) Ignore any and all supplementary dings that line up so beautifully and focus exclusively on those countless juicy 5.6k dings you get from missions themselves. - Facerolling planetaries is STILL vastly superior conq. Why is it tough to admit something so undeniable? What great harm falls upon you if you bring yourself to agreeing that this is indeed inbalanced?

 

There is no balancing it for you. Even if they changed everything to 100 points for everything you complete. 1 hour in the game is 1 hour in the game whether you spend it doing 2 PVP matches or doing heroics on a planet. In that 1 hour playing the game if one person gets through 2 PVP matches while another person completes 10 heroics plus the bonus missions the person doing the heroics will always come out on top because they completed more tasks in the game

[Stradlin]

1 hour in the game is 1 hour in the game whether you spend it doing 2 PVP matches or doing heroics on a planet.

 

Exactly! Here truly is the gist of it. Spend one hour doing your favorite activity. I do so with mine. No reason why you should get something like 500% more conq than I.

 

How many different objectives you ding while at it is pretty irrelevant and simple to adjust, if it has come to that. - Just Make sure ppl doing pvp have equally many generous nice supplementary daily dings that are constantly running when doing missions.

[Stradlin]

You can't change the mind of a troll, and that's what he is at this point. No heroic only takes two minutes, ev

 

But even if you fixed it, so that CQ gave the most points for GSF, he's still complain because that's what he does.

I might get banned for this, but at this point in time I don't care, the forums have been taken over by a few negative trolls, who are big mouthed, ignorant ****, and BW does nothing. This is probably the worst I've ever seen it, they'll probably nerf it to the ground again, and kill CQ because of the shouting of a few *****

 

Rock and a hard place, toxic bombs, spring thaw immediately come to mind. There are loads of others too. People have been nice enough to list these for you by time required for years now. Google it or time it yourself.

 

 

I argue by pointing out amounts of conq you earn, time it takes to do so, evident disparities between straightforward solo content and content requiring other people, etc.

 

You argue by calling me a troll for it and doing a nice suipplement of other ad hominem stuff. Looks real good.

 

At this point, I'm just asking my favorite content( and content requiring other people in general) to give equal amount of conq when compared to some of the most straightforward solo stuff available in this game. And here is you getting unreasonably angry for it.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Stradlin

[DarkTergon]

/snip Anyone who has a brain can see that this benefits everyone, except as someone pointed out the matt farmers, they are the only people to lose out. It's a win for everyone else. But as someone else says, they'll probably nerf it to the ground again, and kill CQ because of the shouting of a few *****

 

Unfortunately not everyone has a brain, as we've seen recently. Not just here, but in real life . Most people are ignoring him at this stage, it's up to BW/EA, they'll do what they'll do. Some things never change

Edited April 28, 2020 by DarkTergon

[DarthSpuds]

Yeah, no.

 

A) This is you explaining how planetary faceroll gives insanely good conquest when compared to stuff that requires other people.

 

Don't you get it?

 

You are being HELPED by OTHER PEOPLE.

You are only putting in 1/4, 1/8 or 1/16 of the effort required to get the task done.

That is why you score less points individually.

Now times the point you get by 4, 8, or 16 and those points come out on a par with the "faceroll" solo points.

 

Its about Task-Points/ Task-Participants.

 

It is really not rocket science, but quite clearly beyond some peoples' ability to grasp.

 

All The Best

[Stradlin]

^ People in a multiplayer game should be discouraged from doing multiplayer exclusive content by nerfing the rewards? I bet most people reading your post have never encountered such argument before.

 

 

Most of the stuff I'm talking about here doesn't even happen without enough other players being involved.

Tough to do pvp alone. If you wanna start giving bigger rewards for ppl soloing multiplayer stuff( vet or mm fps), they'd certainly earn it! Its just that when you do this, you are giving conq by magnitude of effort. Embarking on this road gonna be real bad news for 2 min mission rewards and garbage selling. It -would- be great news for soloing mm kotfe chapters or doing master mode ops with your friends.

 

Re: objectives ( or " tasks" if you like) . Giving grp/pvp content such an equally generous helping of nice 5k daily dings would be a nice, fast solution for this. Ofc, in truth some rough conq earned in 20 mins while doing specific content - rate is all that counts, not some total number of supplementary objectives you ding while at it.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Stradlin

[DarthSpuds]

^ People in a multiplayer game should be discouraged from doing multiplayer exclusive content by nerfing the rewards? .

 

You are now, probably deliberately, confusing Multiplayer (lots of people playing on the same server instance at the same time) with Group (multiple players working together toward the same goal).

 

Multi-Player does NOT mean Group.

 

All The Best

[funnypat]

At this point it really just is trolling, the argument of "you can do exactly the same stuff it's not limited to solo players" was brought up like 50 times now and all he's answering is basically:

 

"I don't want to, I want to wait on fleet looking awesome for 15 min before anything pops, not doing anything and later get fabulous conquest points for doing queuing stuff, because i waited and wasted my precious time doing it.

 

I could have fed my comp in that time one gift and sold trash, but i rather complain so I can still waste my time on fleet waiting for queues"

 

At least that's all I'm hearing, maybe he just isn't communicating very well dunno…

[Stradlin]

@Funnypat,

 

Wasn't conquest supposed to give equal rewards from all kinds of content? I hear that's what you guys been going on about for months. Now, all of a sudden you figure I should just do content you like instead of doing content I like?

"Content that needs other ppl to happen should give conq at same rate with straightforward solo content"

^ what is so wrong or unreasonable with this?

 

You reply with "eh, if you want more conq, just do stuff i like aswell."

 

Back when you kept asking for more single player conq objectives and some pvp person drove by going " lol if you want more conq just do more pvp ", did you consider it a good argument from his part? That's basically what you are doing here.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Stradlin

[phalczen]

Wasn't conquest supposed to give equal rewards from all kinds of content?

 

No one has ever claimed conquest is supposed to give equal rewards from all kinds of content. There is a balance between "Play Your Way " and incentivizing certain content.

 

-- These changes do absolutely nothing to change the balance of power between super-mega-guilds and small guilds. Super-mega-guilds will continue to dominate for the foreseeable future.

 

-- These changes do address a common complaint with conquest since 6.0 ... getting alts through. Remember, points from re-rolling an amplifier or sending your companion to sell junk loot is a once per legacy per day thing. I hardly think that's game-breaking. But it does open up some freedom for you to get other characters through conquest that hasn't been possible before.

 

-- These changes do make it possible, for the first time since 6.0 came out, for smaller guilds to have the chance, at least on some weeks, to reach medium target planets. That's probably a good thing, because it gives a smaller guild something to strive for and maybe even compete, instead of two super mega guilds taking the large and medium planet targets and everyone else just settling for small targets.

 

-- I do support more points being awarded from more challenging content. Now, clearly an unranked warzone where people don't play objectives and farm medals instead, isn't exactly the same as a guild veteran or master mode progression ops run. Conversely a serious Huttball match between two teams actually playing the game, or a team ranked match between the best pvp'ers, isn't the same challenge as master mode Hammer Station, despite the fact that the pvp scenarios likely take less time than MM HS.

So "time the activity takes" isn't the only variable, nor is the presence of pvp or "Master Mode" designation. I actually did the Alderaan bonus series on a 75 scoundrel in 306 gear with an influence rank 50 comp last Tuesday when the patch first dropped. It took an hour. I'm not saying its the same difficulty as an operation, but its a lot more time consuming than the republic [HEROIC] Jungle Flight on Belsavis. "Effort" is composed of many variables: time waiting in queues, time preparing for the content (including but not limited to adjusting gear and utilities, practicing rotations, studying mechanics), the number of people involved, the coordination between those people, the time actually at the keyboard making your character do things, and the difficulty of the content itself.

 

This was the first week of the changes. We know different conquest event weeks will have other focused objectives. I'm sure adjustments will be made as well.

[Valin_Marr]

I love the conquest changes. Number 1 it encourages new players to try crafting by doing missions and harvesting items, helps them learn the base mechanics of the game. I hope the developers leave everything as is. Now the lower levels feel they can contribute to the guild in a more meaningful way.

[casirabit]

I am going to agree with DreadtechSavant, just ignore Stradlin in this forum. He has made his own to complain and maybe if we stop responding to him here he go back to his thread and we can go back to the positive thread that was made because nothing we say he will listen to. People have already said that they probably need to adjust the points on the group activities but he is not listening so it seems to be that he only wants what he wants so ignoring him here is probably for the best. Edited April 28, 2020 by casirabit

[casirabit]

I love the conquest changes. Number 1 it encourages new players to try crafting by doing missions and harvesting items, helps them learn the base mechanics of the game. I hope the developers leave everything as is. Now the lower levels feel they can contribute to the guild in a more meaningful way.

 

Agreed. More people are enjoying conquest and that is a good thing and some of us are actually getting to play our alts and that is great. I had almost forgotten how to play my trooper lol.

[DarkTergon]

I am going to agree with DreadtechSavant, just ignore Stradlin in this forum. He has made his own to complain and maybe if we stop responding to him here he go back to his thread and we can go back to the positive thread that was made because nothing we say he will listen to. People have already said that they probably need to adjust the points on the group activities but he is not listening so it seems to be that he only wants what he wants so ignoring him here is probably for the best.

 

I agree, the mods don't seem to care anymore, so it's up to the players to just ignore, and keep posting the positive

I also agree with marr, from looking in guild chat & fleet.gen chat over the last week, more people are asking about CQ, and doing stuff they've never done before, and asking questions. I've said it a thousand times, and I'll say it a thousand more, this is the best version of conquest we've had so far. Thumbs Up to the Devs for it.

[cibacrome]

The only people I can legitimately have compassion for complaining about this update are GTN heroes. There's a few in every guild, their idea of SWTOR is as a day trading platform, to each his own.

 

Other than that, I get the mats I need, the tech frags I need each week with relative ease, don't have to EV farm to get 20 toons to cq cap, and can focus on raiding, which is what I enjoy most.

 

I do find earning large amounts of credits is a bit harder now, but mostly it's just more tedious. Instead of selling a few conquest mats each week I'd have to sell a LOT, so more mouseclicks. I've been putting that off since I find GTN overall unfun, personally.

[VarKoE]

I got 8 toons through the conquest goal last week. Loved it. Bioware, good job with this. Awesome changes.