MikeCobalt Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 LoL, can you pass me the happy dust you’re own. I like unicorns too Hahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 LoL, can you pass me the happy dust you’re own. I like unicorns too Oh god no, have you not watched Legends of Tomorrow? I want nothing to do with unicorns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAtkinson Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 10 minutes of reading the PTS forums and this is the gist of it. So much for the criticisms coming from only "a few naysayers" on the forums. Bioware, hundreds of players are expressing their unhappiness on the forums with your refusal to listen to what the players want... Particularly involving the gearing being a stifling RNG-based gear system. No one asked for a completely new gearing system that is soaked with RNG. No one asked for the UI to be redone. No one asked for crafting to be made even less solo-friendly and more favorable for large zerg guilds. No one asked for conquest to be gutted and made to favor large zerg guilds even more than before. No one asked for conquest to punish alts. The ball is in your court now, Bioware. What are you going to do? But they have to keep players motivated to play and getting gear is a great motivator, ain't it ? This time they chose to apply some kind of Ossus gearing and make it ten times worse. You are naive, mate. Sorry to say it.. RNG and the horrible grinding was one of the things I'd bet my house that we were going to get. It was very obvious based on what they've done since 5.0.. Not really sure why people are so shocked ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 But they have to keep players motivated to play and getting gear is a great motivator, ain't it ? This time they chose to apply some kind of Ossus gearing and make it ten times worse. You are naive, mate. Sorry to say it.. RNG and the horrible grinding was one of the things I'd bet my house that we were going to get. It was very obvious based on what they've done since 5.0.. Not really sure why people are so shocked ? The word you are looking for is not shocked. I'm not surprised in any way. I am perturbed at their continued insistence that RNG is fun. I for one like having a definitive goal with a definitive path for getting there, avoiding randomness where at all possible. In other words, according to Musco, I'm no fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElZaguero Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 In other words, according to Musco, I'm no fun. But then again we're not paying you $15 a month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 But then again we're not paying you $15 a month No I'm paying them $15 a month to be disappointed repeatedly for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darev Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 No I'm paying them $15 a month to be disappointed repeatedly for some reason. lol, yeah. For the first time in this game (and I've put up with a lot in the last few years with this game) I'm feeling the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olagatonjedi Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) RNG IS fun. There is a reason there are companies pushing RNG acquisition of things IRL and gaming. I understand it doesnt suit the tastes of some people, but it does not mean its not fun to others. Furthermore, no one has prevented anyone from making a decision to walk away from the game, whether it be due to the loot system, the romance options, or the lack of eye colors their toon can have. If the game spites someone holistically enough, then they may leave. Its generally not 1 thing that they have an issue with, though, which is how a company like BW can retain enough players, because if they remove one thing you like, they usually make up for it enough in another area, and things balance out for the general population. And most MMO companies understand that there will be players that no matter how many things they change, they will lose people who do not agree with multiple changes. They expect that, to an extent, because its the nature of the beast. Edited October 3, 2019 by olagatonjedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) lol, yeah. For the first time in this game (and I've put up with a lot in the last few years with this game) I'm feeling the same way. Really? I'm of the opinion that virtually nothing could be worse than 5.0. After KOTET, the devs could polish a turd and I'd eat it up. So cheers to 6.0 -- the bar is set pretty low to make me happy. Onslaught has a raid, you say? Shut up and take my money. ─────███────██ ──────████───███ ────────████──███ ─────────████─█████ ████████──█████████ ████████████████████ ████████████████████ █████████████████████ █████████████████████ █████████████████████ ██─────██████████████ ███────────█████████ █──█───────────████ █──────────────██ ██──────────────█────────▄███████▄ ██───███▄▄──▄▄███──────▄██$█████$██▄ ██──█▀───▀███────█───▄██$█████████$██▄ ██──█───█──██───█─█──█$█████████████$█ ██──█──────██─────█──█████████████████ ██──██────██▀█───█─────██████████████ ─█───██████──▀████───────███████████ ──────────────────█───────█████████ ─────────────▀▀████──────███████████ ────────────────█▀──────██───████▀─▀█ ────────────────▀█──────█─────▀█▀───█ ──▄▄▄▄▄▄▄────────██────█───████▀───██ ─█████████████────▀█──█───███▀──▄▄██ ─█▀██▀██▀████▀█████▀──█───██████▀─▀█ ─█────────█▄─────────██───████▀───██ ─██▄████▄──██────────██───██──▄▄▄██ ──██▄▄▄▄▄██▀─────────██──█████▀───█ ─────────███────────███████▄────███ ────────███████─────█████████████ ───────▄██████████████████████ ████████─██████████████████ ─────────██████████████ ────────███████████ ───────█████ ──────████ ─────████ Edited October 3, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darev Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 RNG IS fun. There is a reason there are companies pushing RNG acquisition of things IRL and gaming. I understand it doesnt suit the tastes of some people, but it does not mean its not fun to others. Furthermore, no one has prevented anyone from making a decision to walk away from the game, whether it be due to the loot system, the romance options, or the lack of eye colors their toon can have. If the game spites someone holistically enough, then they may leave. Its generally not 1 thing that they have an issue with, though, which is how a company like BW can retain enough players, because if they remove one thing you like, they usually make up for it enough in another area, and things balance out for the general population. And most MMO companies understand that there will be players that no matter how many things they change, they will lose people who do not agree with multiple changes. They expect that, to an extent, because its the nature of the beast. With 5.0 They changed the game enough it really irritated me. I canceled on both my accounts, filled out the exit survey explaining why, and then resubbed before my time ran out. They fixed enough of what irritated me to where I could enjoy the game to a certain degree. With the conquest changes over a year ago now (I think) they, again, changed the game enough to where it really irritated me. Again, I cancelled both accounts, filled out the exit survey, and resubbed because I WANT to enjoy this game. Now...I'm just worn out. With 6.0 they are changing more than just one thing. Changes to level sync are going to make the game as a whole more difficult. Changes to companion healing are going to make the game more difficult. Changes to the entire gearing system are going to make the game more frustrating for me. Changes to crafting are beyond mind boggling. Changes to gear / set bonus additions are going to make pvp balance more difficult. I don't pvp, so that won't annoy me, but it will annoy plenty of other people. So what's left that isn't really getting changed? Space PVE - ignored again GSF - I don't think 6.0 is touching that, so the people that play that are still ok. Honestly, this is almost as many changes as star wars galaxy's infamous NGE. If you don't know what that is...google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) Honestly, this is almost as many changes as star wars galaxy's infamous NGE. If you don't know what that is...google it. Never heard of that, NGE... Sounds harmless enough... New Game Enhancement... Actually it sounds like some subversive evilness. Hopefully SWTOR isn't getting a NGE treatment. Edited October 4, 2019 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) With 5.0 They changed the game enough it really irritated me. I canceled on both my accounts, filled out the exit survey explaining why, and then resubbed before my time ran out. They fixed enough of what irritated me to where I could enjoy the game to a certain degree. With the conquest changes over a year ago now (I think) they, again, changed the game enough to where it really irritated me. Again, I cancelled both accounts, filled out the exit survey, and resubbed because I WANT to enjoy this game. Now...I'm just worn out. With 6.0 they are changing more than just one thing. Changes to level sync are going to make the game as a whole more difficult. Changes to companion healing are going to make the game more difficult. Changes to the entire gearing system are going to make the game more frustrating for me. Changes to crafting are beyond mind boggling. Changes to gear / set bonus additions are going to make pvp balance more difficult. I don't pvp, so that won't annoy me, but it will annoy plenty of other people. So what's left that isn't really getting changed? Space PVE - ignored again GSF - I don't think 6.0 is touching that, so the people that play that are still ok. Honestly, this is almost as many changes as star wars galaxy's infamous NGE. If you don't know what that is...google it. IMO... History repeats it's self. I had originally taken the time to write a detailed history of just a few points as to why we are .. where we are with 6.0 Bottom line: 1. solo players … gone or second class citizens at best 2. crafting … not good .. in trouble unless something changes. 3. gearing system. No matter what some might tell you … the RNG master is in control … NOT the player. I think many of us who have tried our best to get a "favorable" resolution to this matter are simply done trying to explain, beg or plead for certain areas of the gearing system to simply be a matter of earn credits (or tokens .. or whatever the current currency is .. ) and buy stuff. It's not that hard to conceive or implement. But … that's just not going to happen. Please do NOT even SUGGEST that this is in the best interest of players. To use the illustration that has hit the mark pretty well: "If I put money into a Vending machine that sells soda and I select Mountain Dew... I expect to get Mountain Dew... Not a can of Diet Coke with a note attached: I know you wanted Mountain Dew … but this is waay better. Now enjoy this instead !!" The last I checked if a businessman orders 10K worth of office equipment / electronics etc to run that business and they get 10K in TP … you can bet there will be some serious consequences. 4. Additional testing this week. I'm planning on it. I'll be a the office tomorrow all day... I'll let you know how that turns out ! I need a break. BTW: "the office" http://boats.iboats.com/sites/basscatboats/site_page_16946/images/l_pumaftd1.jpg Edited October 4, 2019 by OlBuzzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damask_Rose Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Not strictly ENDGAME crafting, but all new crafting going forward will require (far) more mats to craft even the (new level of basic) 270 green gear. Unless they changed it with the last round of up dates, the first tier of crafted gear is 268, so it's not even as good as the first gear you loot off of trash mobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) Oh god no, have you not watched Legends of Tomorrow? I want nothing to do with unicorns! Hahaha... (I had to edit out what I really said ) Edited October 4, 2019 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 The word you are looking for is not shocked. I'm not surprised in any way. I am perturbed at their continued insistence that RNG is fun. I for one like having a definitive goal with a definitive path for getting there, avoiding randomness where at all possible. In other words, according to Musco, I'm no fun. Perturbed is such a civil word to use in this situation. I prefer pissed off The only things I currently like about the 6.0 systems (I’ve not looked at content) is the ability to swap all gear via legacy and the introduction of a mats storage section and extra legacy/cargo storage. Crafting is a **** show and it doesn’t look like they are willing to change anything except add more gather nodes. I hate RNG on RNG on RNG... and I won’t be surprised to find some more hidden RNG once it goes live. The removal of our current set bonuses is grinding my gears, The amplifier gambling slots machine mechanics is appalling and repugnant in every way (to me). Some of the tacticals will essentially ruin pvp (6 rolls on an Operative) and double phase walk on a sniper (as if snipers need a phase walk ) are just two examples of poor design Bolster scaling for pvp (to supposedly make pvp skill vs skill) doesn’t bolster everything, so it’s more useless than the previous bolster system. .... I can go on with all the things I hate about 6.0, but what’s the point. If the story isn’t good or long enough, all these bad things will kill the game for good (at least for me). Bioware were (are) listening to some feed back, but not other feed back. All that means is the system won’t be as terrible as it would have been, but it still won’t be good. There is still so much work to do and they don’t have enough time. The reality is, for 6.0 to be perfect (for me at least), they would need another 2 months of testing and feed back that lead to enough proper changes to make the systems fun. Instead they are going to rush it and use Bioware crunch time (I feel bad for the devs) to push out pretty much what’s on the PTS now (pts3) because management will be telling them to stop making changes and just get it launched on the 22nd. Maybe if they hadn’t originally gone so extreme in the opposite direction (to players expectations), most of these things would have been fixed enough by the 22nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Unless they changed it with the last round of up dates, the first tier of crafted gear is 268, so it's not even as good as the first gear you loot off of trash mobs. Exactly this ^^ You’ll be 10 lvls or more above 268 before you can even get the mats to make 268, it’s a complete and utter joke and the people running this crafting team are fools if they think this will work in swtor. I would not be surprised if these are people they brought over from Anthem and they have never, ever played swtor to craft in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lscarlet Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 "Renown will be seasonal! There will be a reset of your Galactic Renown rank once in a while to keep you motivated to grind through it" 1st.- I don't like Galactic Renown being seasonal nor cosmetic. I don't like all my work being resetted after a long grinding process. 2nd.- When the eternal grinding process turns into a work... It's like subverting a game into a kind of work it's not really the idea of enjoyment. 3rd.- Almost all the game mechanics are intended to make cash. I can understand this, up to a certain limit. Overstepping the mark it's not generally a good idea. 4th.- Abusing RNG it's abusing player patience. It works until it stops working and the player/payer flees. 5th.- Galactic Command achievements gone? Another bad point to me. Basicly it seems that 6.0 turns a game into a work. Most of people likes to play&enjoy but not to work in repetitive tasks day after day. Abuse of RNG and temporarity are the key factors to turn a game into such work. I'll test, watch and act accordingly, willing to spend my money in a game not in a work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 IMO... History repeats it's self. I had originally taken the time to write a detailed history of just a few points as to why we are .. where we are with 6.0 Bottom line: 1. solo players … gone or second class citizens at best 2. crafting … not good .. in trouble unless something changes. 3. gearing system. No matter what some might tell you … the RNG master is in control … NOT the player. I think many of us who have tried our best to get a "favorable" resolution to this matter are simply done trying to explain, beg or plead for certain areas of the gearing system to simply be a matter of earn credits (or tokens .. or whatever the current currency is .. ) and buy stuff. It's not that hard to conceive or implement. But … that's just not going to happen. Please do NOT even SUGGEST that this is in the best interest of players. To use the illustration that has hit the mark pretty well: "If I put money into a Vending machine that sells soda and I select Mountain Dew... I expect to get Mountain Dew... Not a can of Diet Coke with a note attached: I know you wanted Mountain Dew … but this is waay better. Now enjoy this instead !!" The last I checked if a businessman orders 10K worth of office equipment / electronics etc to run that business and they get 10K in TP … you can bet there will be some serious consequences. 4. Additional testing this week. I'm planning on it. I'll be a the office tomorrow all day... I'll let you know how that turns out ! I need a break. BTW: "the office" http://boats.iboats.com/sites/basscatboats/site_page_16946/images/l_pumaftd1.jpg Totem said it the best. It’s always ground hog day when swtor devs are designing new systems in this game. * They never learn from past mistakes. * Everything that’s bad about 6.0 has basically been done in the past at some point and eventually fixed once they realise people hated a certain system (1.0, 2.2, 3.0, 5.0). Only for things that people hated about those systems to be reinvent down the line, * You can literally go through dev posts if the past where they addmit or concede players don’t like x,y, z. Then a few years later we see them doing the same **** again like they forgot or have dementia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) "Renown will be seasonal! There will be a reset of your Galactic Renown rank once in a while to keep you motivated to grind through it" I must have missed that part. What a *********** stupid idea. I guess that’s another thing to add to my wall of hate. Edited October 4, 2019 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAtkinson Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 RNG IS fun. There is a reason there are companies pushing RNG acquisition of things IRL and gaming. I understand it doesnt suit the tastes of some people, but it does not mean its not fun to others. Furthermore, no one has prevented anyone from making a decision to walk away from the game, whether it be due to the loot system, the romance options, or the lack of eye colors their toon can have. If the game spites someone holistically enough, then they may leave. Its generally not 1 thing that they have an issue with, though, which is how a company like BW can retain enough players, because if they remove one thing you like, they usually make up for it enough in another area, and things balance out for the general population. And most MMO companies understand that there will be players that no matter how many things they change, they will lose people who do not agree with multiple changes. They expect that, to an extent, because its the nature of the beast. Wrong.. RNG is cheap. RNG is a cheap way of keeping people hooked into the game without having to release enough content... because content is what we've been asking them for some time now and of course NO RNG. But I won't get into that with you cause it's very obvious that you and I are playing two different games and the community in your versin of SWTOR is a huge fan of RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Never heard of that, NGE... Sounds harmless enough... New Game Enhancement... Actually it sounds like some subversive evilness. Hopefully SWTOR isn't getting a NGE treatment. From “EVERTHING” I’ve read about NGE, that’s what sunk SW Galaxies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 RNG is a way of keeping people hooked into the game through gambling mechanics Let me fix that a bit... As has been discussed and debated across the internet, all the way up to government enquires, RNG mechanics, wether paid loot boxes or RNG in the game, is considered some form of gambling. Now there are obviously two sides to the discussion, but you have some governments who have outright banned paid loot boxes for those reasons. While others have been subverted from making those decisions by special lobby groups lead by the gaming industry. Nobody in their right mind can say that RNG isn’t some form of gambling. (Even a kinder surprise is a form of gambling) I think we all understand that RNG has been in games for a long time, but it’s getting more pervasive since EA introduced it in FIFA as a way to buff their revenue streams. It’s why the system is often named after the EA exec who thought it up, “The Wilson Loot Box” I’m not alone in thinking that the increased RNG in games is to desensitise and reform younger players to it early so that they will pay for it when they become adults. The absolute RNG on RNG on RNG in 6.0 has all the halls marks of this. I don’t think they are doing willingly, I think EA are pushing this model for future games and grooming gamers to accept Paid Loot boxes in future EA games. I’ve read that the industry (led by EA) is spending millions apon millions of dollars on lobbying and lobbyists fighting legislation to stop laws saying that loot boxes (and RNG by default) is gambling. Why would they do that if they don’t expect to gain continued revenue from “paid loot boxes” in the future. RNG and loot boxes are integral to their future revenue and business models. They don’t care if kids are being groomed to be gamblers or that parts of society become addicted to the gambling in their games. I hate gambling in all forms, but even I got sucked into the amplifier gambling in 6.0 pts. Anyone saying that RNG is good has never had a friend or family member with an addiction problem, especially gambling. RNG is a grooming mechanism for this. Wether the devs realise this or not or have been desensitised to this is another matter. I personally think this heavy RNG model has filtered its way from EA through to the execs at Bioware who have told the devs to put in the heavy RNG. The devs may not even realise it’s come from EA, The old way game companies used to make revenue was to get you hooked on content to keep playing. Now they just bypass that and go straight to RNG because its cheaper and more lucrative. I don’t expect the game to be devoid of RNG, but I never expected such a heavy form of RNG in swtor. If it had been this heavy when I started playing the game, I would have left straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBaal Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 I think the main problem of RNG these days isn't so much the RNG itself, but the extend to where it goes. I have no problem with RNG, as long as the boxes ALWAYS give a fair amount of a specific currency designed to buy the endgame gear. So you always know that you might get lucky, but even if not you can buy specific item after a fair amount of bad box openings. And i have to point out the word "fair"!!! Every player should be able to get at least one piece of a desired set after one post work evening of the usual FP grind (meaning usually 3-4 hours of non stop FP speedruns) Hardcore players should be able to gear up a character within a week of excessive gaming IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) I think the main problem of RNG these days isn't so much the RNG itself, but the extend to where it goes. I have no problem with RNG, as long as the boxes ALWAYS give a fair amount of a specific currency designed to buy the endgame gear. So you always know that you might get lucky, but even if not you can buy specific item after a fair amount of bad box openings. And i have to point out the word "fair"!!! Every player should be able to get at least one piece of a desired set after one post work evening of the usual FP grind (meaning usually 3-4 hours of non stop FP speedruns) Hardcore players should be able to gear up a character within a week of excessive gaming IMO. A week is a bit fast to gear up for pve content. Edited October 4, 2019 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambril Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 At this point I can only hope that the story doesn't completely suck. I'll play through that on my alts and do the best I can to ignore the train wreck happening around me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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