General consensus of 6.0 as it stands now (9/24/19)

[Lhancelot]

Without question, even with adjustments to RNG to make it more favorable to players, the new gearing system will essentially kill the population. It's simply not enjoyable to run instances that have been in the game for 5-8 years to grind gear that has an extremely low probability of being what you need.

 

Yes I think it will even if they tweak it too much RNG and grind i wont be part of this non sense.

 

As someone who played through 4.0, quite soon after 5.0 was released due to the horrible RNGearing grind, I wholly agree with this. I eventually came back once the grind was fixed to some extent, but that’s a lot of lost subscription revenue in the meantime from myself and others like me...

 

Because their "work" is laughable. Have you seen the feedback to the new patch? Bioware refuses to acknowledge that players DO NOT WANT TO RELY ON RNG TO GEAR. IT IS NOT FUN.

 

Essentially, I’m going to give them a month after launch, if it’s still this bad then, I’ll be off. I just don’t have time for RNG on this level, I’d rather do it the masterwork way, even if it means I get one pice of top level gear per week, at least I knew what I needed was guaranteed at the end of the grind. I really do love this game, but I can see this killing off a lot of the player base, just because someone seems to be insisting that RNG is the way forward, WHY?

 

This is the most idiotic system I've seen in any mmo I've played and it will undoubtedly chase people away if the grind is too harsh. I'll continue to play and root for the game, but there's only so much people can handle before they move on.

 

At this point i wish they just did away with all this RNG nonsense and gave us the good old gear tokens that we could turn in for whatever the heck we want. I dont know y they seem to think we all have dozens of hours a week on our hands to sink into this nonsense. The unsub button is looking very appealing right now if things dont end up drastically changing. Im hanging on by a thread as is.

 

This whole new "shells that have different set bonuses" and "tacticals" is just turning me off. Not to mention crafting which is an absolute RIP part of the game now. It looks like it'll become more tiresome then ever. Remember 5.0 launch and people farming Fractured to get to CR 300 ? Is this what we need to be doing in the launch of 6.0 as well ? Coz I ain't like that. Never played this game as it was a farming simulator.

 

I read today on one of my guild's discord chat channels where one of my most ardent players and contributors to ops is feeling completely deflated about 6.0 and is losing interest in the game and won't play much going forward. This is eerily a repeat of what happened for me in EQ2.

 

Sadly, even when RNG is one of the most hated things in the game, they chose to RNG nearly everything where it's virtually impossible to understand it and find a reasonable path to gearing-up. Does anyone have a better understanding of the logic behind the move to virtually complete RNG?

 

I don't know maybe in game things will make sense, but all of this looks to me like overly complicated to me. I hate being one of those "I will unsub" guys, but I do feel like that - I will play through onslought story content and probably stop playing after that. This gearing doesn't look fun to me.

 

 

10 minutes of reading the PTS forums and this is the gist of it. So much for the criticisms coming from only "a few naysayers" on the forums.

 

 

Bioware, hundreds of players are expressing their unhappiness on the forums with your refusal to listen to what the players want... Particularly involving the gearing being a stifling RNG-based gear system.

 

 

• No one asked for a completely new gearing system that is soaked with RNG.
   
   
  
• No one asked for the UI to be redone.
   
   
  
• No one asked for crafting to be made even less solo-friendly and more favorable for large zerg guilds.
   
   
  
• No one asked for conquest to be gutted and made to favor large zerg guilds even more than before.
   
   
  
• No one asked for conquest to punish alts.
  

 

 

The ball is in your court now, Bioware. What are you going to do?

[Rion_Starkiller]

Yayyy another pointless drama thread.

 

Isn't the new version of the PTS coming back up soon-ish?

Edited September 24, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[Jdast]

Why are you quoting a consensus from posts that are 18 days old and don't reflect any of the changes Eric posted are forthcoming?

 

Literally every post (minus two) you quoted is from September 6th. The last two consist of what is essentially a bump of the September 6th post and Albeva's concern, posted today, about complexity -- a fair point.

 

If you're going to throw BW under the bus, at least do them the courtesy of throwing them under the right bus. Once again you are promulgating a narrative that is outdated -- this time by 18 days and several gold posts. As to your motivation for doing so, one can only surmise.

 

Dasty

Edited September 24, 2019 by Jdast

[Batwer]

They have another month.

Please wait until it is live, With the wine - Swtor-death-threads.

[Tsillah]

Clearly the forums aren't generally used to sing praises, so it goes without saying that the PTS forum will be full of negativity.

 

However, your collection of quotes is a very biased one. Four days ago Eric posted a thread ( http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9765304#post9765304 ) with some details about what's coming next on the PTS and the reactions are much more nuanced and the changes are generally seen as improvements.

 

So really, try not to trip over yourself. In the end we don't know what the end result will be yet and changes are being made as we speak.

[Lhancelot]

Clearly the forums aren't generally used to sing praises, so it goes without saying that the PTS forum will be full of negativity.

 

PTS forums full of negativity? They are only reacting to what they are experiencing. If it was enjoyable, do you think there would be as much negativity? I doubt it.

 

I think it's important that they read critical feedback when it is truthfully applied. 6.0 is important, and the people have spoken. Hopefully BW is listening.

[Tsillah]

PTS forums full of negativity? They are only reacting to what they are experiencing. If it was enjoyable, do you think there would be as much negativity? I doubt it.

I'm saying that when people are happy they generally just don't post.

 

I think it's important that they read critical feedback when it is truthfully applied. 6.0 is important, and the people have spoken. Hopefully BW is listening.

Of course it's important. I've been very critical at times myself. But it's not often that people actually explain their grievances. It's hard to make any sense out of "this sucks" and "it's terrible" when there's not much of an explanation what exactly and why.

 

I see criticism as a good thing but just saying you hate something doesn't qualify as useful to me. Hope that makes sense.

[Lhancelot]

They have another month.

Please wait until it is live, With the wine - Swtor-death-threads.

 

I didn't say SWTOR would die.

 

I just wanted to help BW out by consolidating critical feedback so they can find some of what is being written all in one spot.

 

I have learned BW has trouble finding and comprehending feedback, so maybe this can help the community manager with the task of disseminating information to the proper channels up above.

[Lhancelot]

I'm saying that when people are happy they generally just don't post.

 

I'd agree, but not when it comes to the PTS. Perhaps the forums in general, sure people tend to post rants. The PTS forums are different though.

 

People are logging into PTS playing it, basically beta testing the update. They are leaving positive feedback, what little there is to mention as well as the ton of critical feedback. It's not because the players are a bunch of naysayers, it's because what they are testing out sucks.

 

 

I see criticism as a good thing but just saying you hate something doesn't qualify as useful to me. Hope that makes sense.

 

I get that. But there's tons of pages of detailed explanations in the PTS forums if you'd like to understand better why 6.0 sucks and the feedback has been predominantly negative.

 

I am doing BW a disservice if I sat back and didn't let them know how poorly 6.0 is still being received. Hopefully this motivates them to do better.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Lhancelot

[Transcendent]

I'm saying that when people are happy they generally just don't post.

 

Well either that or they've unsubscribed.

[Lhancelot]

Well either that or they've unsubscribed.

 

Exactly. That's why I feel an obligation to let them know how I feel, while I am still subbed. You know, strike when the iron is hot, as they say!

[Jdast]

Exactly. That's why I feel an obligation to let them know how I feel, while I am still subbed. You know, strike when the iron is hot, as they say!

 

The problem is you struck with a cold iron. But, hey, if you think gathering some quotes from 18 days ago criticizing a system that we know BW is not implementing, fill your boots.

 

Dasty

Edited September 24, 2019 by Jdast

[Transcendent]

Exactly. That's why I feel an obligation to let them know how I feel, while I am still subbed. You know, strike when the iron is hot, as they say!

 

I'd like to point out that irrespective of the feedback BioWare get in regards to the current / future builds on the PTS, they'll have to have a certain cutoff point for the final build and testing phase. I have no doubt that will leave some players unhappy, equally I also have no doubt BioWare will continue to monitor feedback and continue to tweak over time after 6.0 goes live.

 

It may not be what everyone wants to see pointed out, but I'm just basing this supposition off past PTS feedback phases, which is generally how it tends to go. Don't get me wrong either, I'd absolutely love to see BioWare nail it on first pass, that just isn't my experience to date as they have a certain design vision that doesn't always marry with the general population of players (something of note that the developers also play this game and may want it to go in a different direction to the general population).

 

Look at this as a balancing act on compromise, then add a touch of patience.

[SteveTheCynic]

Four days ago Eric posted a thread ( http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9765304#post9765304 ) with some details about what's coming next on the PTS and the reactions are much more nuanced and the changes are generally seen as improvements.

Ultimately, the weakness with this reasoning is that they seem to be seen as "Well, OK, that would be less bad" rather than an actual improvement compared to what we have now.

[OlBuzzard]

[/snip]

 

Isn't the new version of the PTS coming back up soon-ish?

 

Yes. I'm looking forward to it !

 

To Lhancelot:

 

As for the rest:

 

No one asked for a completely new gearing system that is soaked with RNG.

see comment above with one added note: I'd be willing to bet good money that the update will reveal changes that are needed. Perhaps not the ones I would personally want .. but changes are forth coming !

 

 

No one asked for the UI to be redone.

Minor point … it could use a little sprucing up !

 

 

No one asked for crafting to be made even less solo-friendly and more favorable for large zerg guilds.

It's not just the mega guild favorability .. there are other issues to consider... but AGAIN please see initial comment... changes in the PTS are coming. We need to check them out as soon as the PTS goes live again !

 

No one asked for conquest to be gutted and made to favor large zerg guilds even more than before.

Valid point. Hopefully this is covered in the update. IMO so many threads have been hammering the fire out of RNG... it's as if the remaining issues have been hastily swept under the rug.

 

No one asked for conquest to punish alts.

Also a valid point. However, again IMO … too much of this and we appear to be crying wolf. Perhaps another approach while asking specific question in the PTS area as to how this is being addressed might be of help? (just a thought … not meant to be judgmental or overly zealous in correcting you)

 

I hope this makes sense !

[JediQuaker]

10 minutes of reading the PTS forums and this is the gist of it. So much for the criticisms coming from only "a few naysayers" on the forums.

I think 11 people, out of all the people who play, could be considered "a few".🙄

[Jdast]

Ultimately, the weakness with this reasoning is that they seem to be seen as "Well, OK, that would be less bad" rather than an actual improvement compared to what we have now.

 

I didn't read one post in response to Eric's last post (the one quoted by Tsillah) that left it at just -- "well, it's less bad."

 

I got the overwhelming sense that people acknowledged that point, but as Tsillah notes, the response was far more nuanced. As in -- yeah, it's better but we need clarification and there is more to do. I didn't see one person say to take the foot of the gas in terms of critique. Yours truly offered several.

 

In any case, we'll know in a couple days and this thread will be swept into the dustbin of history where it rightly belongs.

 

Dasty

Edited September 24, 2019 by Jdast

[DzastinBiberi]

You got one thing wrong mate.

 

They are not refusing to listen, they are unable to listen.

 

They/ve proven this over and over again.

 

If people think that the Exciting Ben was bad, wait until RNG Keith drops this abomination called 6.0 on us.

 

I'm a hard core SWTOR player, I've never played any other MMO, never had a "vacation" from it, from 2014 till now, still a sub, still playing it and I'm seriously thinking of quitting it if PTS RNG gearing goes live.

[xordevoreaux]

Why are you quoting a consensus from posts that are 18 days old and don't reflect any of the changes Eric posted are forthcoming?

 

Literally every post (minus two) you quoted is from September 6th. The last two consist of what is essentially a bump of the September 6th post and Albeva's concern, posted today, about complexity -- a fair point..

 

If you're going to throw BW under the bus, at least do them the courtesy of throwing them under the right bus. Once again you are promulgating a narrative that is outdated -- this time by 18 days and several gold posts. As to your motivation for doing so, one can only surmise.

 

Dasty

 

Very good observation. My mood about 6.0 improved dramatically after the devs put out word that weapon drops would be moddable.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Clearly the forums aren't generally used to sing praises, so it goes without saying that the PTS forum will be full of negativity.

 

It is super easy to look at someone's posting history to understand their forum demeanor. There are a lot of people on these forums that have nothing good to say about anything. It makes me wonder how miserable they are in life, in addition to these forums. Why play this game to complain?

 

For me, I've played this game off and on since launch. I joined the forums in 2009 after the game was announced. I got very negative about the game when 5.0 KOTET dropped. I was miserable. So I quit for a couple months.

 

To me, this forum is like a reflection on life. When someone is dissatisfied with something deeper in their life, they reflect it in their demeanor and every day actions.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[kodrac]

Isn't the new version of the PTS coming back up soon-ish?

 

Yes, wait until that goes up and then make this thread. I'd add if need be at the end of that sentence, but we all know it will. They don't exactly have a good track record on these things. I'll be lurking to see if it comes back up.

Edited September 24, 2019 by kodrac

[DarthCasus]

Very good observation. My mood about 6.0 improved dramatically after the devs put out word that weapon drops would be moddable.

 

Aww, isn't that endearing? Them giving us back something they were taking away without anyone ever asking anything of the sort

 

To me, this forum is like a reflection on life. When someone is dissatisfied with something deeper in their life, they reflect it in their demeanor and every day actions.

 

I feel like this is a fair belief in general. People are more driven when something that provides a fair amount of joy or sense of escapism to their everyday life. A lot of us have been with the game throughout the years from good to bad and worse, so if someone has something to say, they should be free to. We're ALL customers here anyway. Should they be chastised for having a different perspective based on previous experience and the current outlook? No. Should we make broad assumptions about how miserable they must be irl because of continued negative statements on the next iteration of the game? No. You can literally skip over these threads if you're tired of seeing these posts, whether they're dumb or constructive.

 

I understand why people are adopting (for the umpteenth time in this game's history) a 'wait and see' mindset and yeah, they've made some changes to the systems based on some feedback. But that doesn't change the fact that quite a few of the things they're changing, were NEVER asked for, the few things they've changed for the better don't go far enough, and the things they have yet to change or even hint toward changing upon request are STILL ignored. Less than a month to launch, already passed the initial launch date, nearing that good ol '2 month holiday' time for BioWare too.

 

What should be excitement, is dread.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Yes, wait until that goes up and then make this thread. I'd add if need be at the end of that sentence, but we all know it will. They don't exactly have a good track record on these things. I'll be lurking to see if it comes back up.

 

I predict they will tweak and fine tune more things, and maybe alter how some things work. But it won't be complete -- because it's the PTS and it's a work-in-progress (i.e. beta).

[Lhancelot]

Yes, wait until that goes up and then make this thread. I'd add if need be at the end of that sentence, but we all know it will.

 

I was feeling inspired so made the thread. I can easily create a version 2.0 if need be.

 

I'd love nothing better than for BW to make me eat my words of criticism regarding the game design choices they appear to be making with 6.0, but feel confident they will not.

 

For the record, if they pull off a miracle with 6.0 I will be the first to create a high praise thread. By miracle, I have low expectations; remove the RNG to a degree gearing isn't extraordinarily frustrating and improve upon crafting, don't wreck crafting so it's no longer solo-player friendly. Oh, and just mix up the class power structure in PVP, I am sick of the same meta for the last 3+ years. Is this too much to ask for?

[Rion_Starkiller]

I feel like this is a fair belief in general. People are more driven when something that provides a fair amount of joy or sense of escapism to their everyday life. A lot of us have been with the game throughout the years from good to bad and worse, so if someone has something to say, they should be free to. We're ALL customers here anyway. Should they be chastised for having a different perspective based on previous experience and the current outlook? No. Should we make broad assumptions about how miserable they must be irl because of continued negative statements on the next iteration of the game? No. You can literally skip over these threads if you're tired of seeing these posts, whether they're dumb or constructive.

 

I mean, if I have to read their crap, why can't I complain about their complaining? I'm also free to post what I want.

 

Not every game forum is like this one. This one is particularly whiny lately. There's a reason people in game and on discord think the forums are a joke. it's the same 10 people complaining about every little thing all day every day. When you repeat something often enough it becomes the truth, even if it was simply an opinion.

 

I understand why people are adopting (for the umpteenth time in this game's history) a 'wait and see' mindset and yeah, they've made some changes to the systems based on some feedback. But that doesn't change the fact that quite a few of the things they're changing, were NEVER asked for, the few things they've changed for the better don't go far enough, and the things they have yet to change or even hint toward changing upon request are STILL ignored. Less than a month to launch, already passed the initial launch date, nearing that good ol '2 month holiday' time for BioWare too.

What should be excitement, is dread.

 

The sad thing is that many of the people have never even loaded up the PTS, and are prepared to make decisions based on what they read on the forums, probably by the same 8 people always looking for the next update or change they can be outraged about.

 

I posted a thread a long time ago for BW to stop fixing what isn't broke, and to focus on new content instead. So I agree with you there. But I think we did ask for new set bonuses, and to change up this stale class meta -- a class meta which hasn't changed in 2 years. We also complained about the poor itemization, loot, and Galactic Command crates.

 

I suspect that BW wants to get away with as much RNG as possible because it's simplistic, and easy to automate.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller