Sith Marauders, you are not a tank!

[Banivisa]

A maruder afaik somewhere in the description is stated as a OFF TANK, we can take a target if lack of CC or if CC fails, or healer is up to it.

 

No where is Maurader listed as an Off Tank, they are pure melee dps. Jugg dps specs are though, they have all the tools for tanking they just don't have the full mitigation as Immortal spec. Have you ever seen a tank or off tank without a taunt?

 

Yes you are correct the normal mobs can just be left for the dps to handle and even the strong mobs is some cases. TBH the tank should have aggro on everything but the normal mobs anyway. You won't pull aggro as a dps if you focus fire and burn the tanks target rather then just hitting all of the mobs individually that's just raiding 101.

[Locklave]

It should be common sense, but doesn't seem to be.

 

I have been leveling as a Sith Juggernaut specced as Immortal, I level as a tank, and I do flashpoints as a tank. My whole role and intent is to tank, which is why I chose juggernaut at level 10 and not marauder.

 

I am starting to see a trend in flashpoint when there is a marauder player, where they believe that they are also a tank. Taunting mobs off of me to offtank them, starting the pulls themselves, even on bosses...

 

Lets set the record straight, you are not a tank. You are a melee dps class. Please don't get offended. That is your role. Leave the tanking to the Juggernauts, the powertechs, and the assassins.

 

If you want to off tank a mob in aoe pulls of weak and strong mobs, go ahead, thats fine. But when it comes to elites and bosses, your putting too much strain on the healer, and making it harder for the "real" tank.

 

when does marauder get taunt, I'm 33 and haven't seen that?

[Sunstreak]

As DPS agents we have to be able to manage our aggro. You kinda know when you're really giving the MOB the business.

 

BUT

 

It is also are jobs to Off Tank, if our confidence in the tank goes bye bye, maybe the healer is taking too many shots, then yea, any good Ma'folo is going to jump in until you can get your saber straight.

 

To go back to the first thing that I said, sometimes, you just don't know. But usually, you have an idea

[Locklave]

As DPS agents we have to be able to manage our aggro. You kinda know when you're really giving the MOB the business.

 

BUT

 

It is also are jobs to Off Tank, if our confidence in the tank goes bye bye, maybe the healer is taking too many shots, then yea, any good Ma'folo is going to jump in until you can get your saber straight.

 

To go back to the first thing that I said, sometimes, you just don't know. But usually, you have an idea

 

^^ this. good dps would rather die trying to hold a mob then let the healer die.

[The_Archon]

In conclusion, the "let them die" argument is the most idiotic argument to date in MMO history.

 

A cup of tea, top hat, and monocle at the fireside has always worked for me with random internet gamers.

 

... no. You give them a warning at the start of the group, along with "don't need everything" and if they fail to use their de-taunts correctly and end up dying, then that's their lesson learned. Death in this game has almost no penalty anyway, it's not like old school games where you have to hunt your corpse and regain XP.

 

A DPS class should be going as hard as they can to save heals/tankage. If the tank cant hold, the DPS has tools to alleviate that. If the tank cant get the mob off before the DPS dies, they suck. It will take at least 5-10 seconds for a DPS to die.

 

As a marauder I can pull aggro from any tank my level if I try. Every time. I usually do it on purpose and then de-taunt unless we're on a champ level mob, and then I really don't want aggro. So I slow down and let the tank taunt.

 

Until folks are raid-geared and tanks have the experience and rotations all set, there WILL be a moderation of DPS and de-taunts... unless the DPS class wants aggro. That's not failtank, that's how the game works (at the moment).

 

I love it when people complain about DPS pulling aggro when there is no tool or anything to let you know when it's safe to dps.

 

WoW spoiled the heck out of you people and made most players bad gamers because of all the shortcuts and plugins and automatic blah blah blah.

 

Managing aggro is not hard to do, especially in a communicating group and when people know how to play their class. If you need a tool to tell you when to press your buttons then you're not actually any good at this game.

[LtTierce]

 

WoW spoiled the heck out of you people and made most players bad gamers because of all the shortcuts and plugins and automatic blah blah blah.

 

Managing aggro is not hard to do, especially in a communicating group and when people know how to play their class. If you need a tool to tell you when to press your buttons then you're not actually any good at this game.

 

You sir, are now my hero. WoW has ruined the mindest of today's mmo players. I miss Everquest for this very reason

[Voudun]

I don't see a reson for fuss really...

I'm currently playing Marauder but I have a fair share of experience as tank in other MMOs.

 

It's pretty annoying and frustrating to try aoe-tanking a group of npcs with someone scattering aggro... I've felt that pretty often.

 

On the other hand, bossy know-it-alls that must have everything their way or they quit/kick/whathever... a.k.a. prima donnas, are no fun and take all the fun out of the game for the rest.

 

So after several pointless discussions here's what I do:

- as tank I expect to be the first to attack, so if someone else constantly pulls it after I requested them to allow me to attack first... for their sake, I hope they can tank it because I'll just sit and wait. Exception is a coordinated attack with an offtank, usually by marking targets;

 

- as dps I will "pluck" non-elites first then try going for the tank's target... if I make a mistake and attack another target, I may soon realize I'm getting my *** kicked and swap... if I see I can kill it, well even better, that's one less.

 

Just be tolerant and try to make it fun for you and your party... rest is common sense imho.

[McRuffles]

Sorry, but I disagree with the OP.

 

I'm a marauder and play alongside my very experienced MMO tank friend who has main tanked our guild through the entirety of WoW and other MMOs that we have played.

 

He tanks the big mob and aoe tanks whatever else he can.

 

I take one mob (regardless of level) and burn it down asap, and move onto the next mob. I have defensive cooldowns, self heals (anni spec) and camo if things really get hot.

 

Never had a problem at all... ever...

 

However... in a PUG situation, I fully admit I could and would never trust the abilities of others and would treat each encounter accordingly. I also wouldn't pay much attention to a tank who insists on tanking everything if the group is blasting their way through a flashpoint.

 

Apologies if that is against the grain, laughs in the face of the principle of the MMO holy trinity. But there you go, my friends and I are all skilled enough to deal with encounters on the fly. End of.

[Banivisa]

Sorry, but I disagree with the OP.

 

I'm a marauder and play alongside my very experienced MMO tank friend who has main tanked our guild through the entirety of WoW and other MMOs that we have played.

 

He tanks the big mob and aoe tanks whatever else he can.

 

I take one mob (regardless of level) and burn it down asap, and move onto the next mob. I have defensive cooldowns, self heals (anni spec) and camo if things really get hot.

 

Never had a problem at all... ever...

 

However... in a PUG situation, I fully admit I could and would never trust the abilities of others and would treat each encounter accordingly. I also wouldn't pay much attention to a tank who insists on tanking everything if the group is blasting their way through a flashpoint.

 

Apologies if that is against the grain, laughs in the face of the principle of the MMO holy trinity. But there you go, my friends and I are all skilled enough to deal with encounters on the fly. End of.

 

This discussion is really about Pugs not guild groups, I don't tank the same in a guild group because I know my healers and dps are all capable I'll pull 2-3 groups together and let the dps handle all the light mobs while they're trying to chase me. I wouldn't even consider doing this in a pug.

 

Likewise If I mark targets in a guild group there is no discussion about what to do. We already know fire is the burn target, bullseye is the cc and 2nd target, shield is my taunt target and last to be killed.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Banivisa

[Enerzeal]

In a random flashpoint if Melee DPS, specifically BH and marauders start their fight the same time as the tank they will at some point pull aggro. I had a level 42 marauder when I was level 47 Immortal pulling aggro off me, I had taunt waiting for that specific moment but unfortunately it is still a pain losing that aggro in the first place.

 

I have one ability that states on its tooltip that it generates extra threat, and that is backhand which I might get to use once every pull, insignificant at best, better used as an interrupt / small CC.

 

Lets say that a marauders best ability at level 50 does 3k damage. The best I have done so far, and very rarely is 1500 damage. Our soresu form adds 50% additional threat to our abilities. 1500, becomes 2250, while the marauder is still happily doing more damage. Now factor in that a significant portion of my abilities hit considerably lower than 1500.

 

I don't have a clue how difficult hard mode FPs are gona be but I am 3 levels off them.

[DustomaticGXC]

Marauders don't have a taunt.

 

They also do more damage if they move from mob to mob, they lose damage if they cool down between fights.

 

You're a tank, you should have tools to pull aggro.

 

Dock your failboat.

 

As an Immortal spec Juggernaut, I agree. And if you need your dos to wait 5 seconds before attacking, you need to learn how to hold aggro.

 

Oh, and if I was the other DPS in your group when you told the healer to let that dude die and we ended up wiping because we were short-handed, my wasted time and repair money would point to YOU as the d-bag.

[darthjerro]

Marauders don't have a taunt.

 

They also do more damage if they move from mob to mob, they lose damage if they cool down between fights.

 

You're a tank, you should have tools to pull aggro.

 

Dock your failboat.

 

Lol, do you know why i like no LFG which places us with random people.

 

Its because i get to screen my group as i invite them.

 

Ill give you 1 guess which class i dont invite to my groups anymore !

 

I used to invite mauraders, until i found out they want to act like a tank while playing a dps class.

 

Hey, you mauraders took the easy way out and rolled dps, no stress on your behalf, so as a concequence, you DONT get to be the frontman, us jugs do....

 

We level slower, we have to rely on our companion more, but most importantly its allways the tanks ( and healers ) that have to make sure their gear is top notch , allways kept upgraded for the latest content, unlike dps that can just wear any old green thing, 10 item levels lower....

[Nmaharg]

Put guard on em problem solved.

[nonumbers]

as a marauder main I've never had this problem and why the OP thinks marauders have taunt, which we do not, I have no idea.

 

Marauders work in burst damage, we build up rage and then unleash the rage in strong heavy attacks and that's kinda the point of the class however I always go in after the tank and if there is multiple enemies I always go for the weakest first so that I can build up rage and hate on a weakling that'll be gone in a few seconds before unleashing on the elite or the boss which works well.

 

And anybody that thinks that Marauders don't get stress, well they haven't played a Marauder. Marauder is probably the one class you need to use almost literally every single skill given to you and dynamically so, static rotations don't tend to work that well...

Edited January 1, 2012 by nonumbers

[Crunchyblack]

Proper tems is "Rambo Marauder"

 

 

I think the mentailty is that ill pop my sheilds and charge on in, because im rambo, the tank has 12 seconds before saber ward wears off and the group wipes.

 

Secretly we all are hoping that some other range dps player grabs aggro and can be blamed for the entire wipe. This is payback for warzones, its all us marauders have.

[apantoliani]

Marauders don't have a taunt.

 

They also do more damage if they move from mob to mob, they lose damage if they cool down between fights.

 

You're a tank, you should have tools to pull aggro.

 

Dock your failboat.

 

I quit reading after this, because it held universal truth.

 

That said, if your tank sucks my marauder brothers feel free to wait before jumping in. Or don't. Whatever works. I work my tank! He loves it. Even if he says otherwise...

[kaelthun]

Thanks for the reminder. I almost forgot with all the DPS talents I have.

 

Find better people to play with and stop insulting all of the other marauder players by insinuating that there's an epidemic of baddie marauders running around. There's not.

 

Maybe you need to pull faster or communicate better.

Edited January 1, 2012 by kaelthun

[Shakari]

Marauders don't have a taunt.

 

They also do more damage if they move from mob to mob, they lose damage if they cool down between fights.

 

You're a tank, you should have tools to pull aggro.

 

Dock your failboat.

 

 

Ahhh the good old lame dps excuse for playing poorly gotta love it.

 

Try and get a little skill and actually DPS properly and don;t pull aggro and don't try and tank, you do either and you fail ... hard as dps lol

[uhsixzeroLnj]

It should be common sense, but doesn't seem to be.

 

I have been leveling as a Sith Juggernaut specced as Immortal, I level as a tank, and I do flashpoints as a tank. My whole role and intent is to tank, which is why I chose juggernaut at level 10 and not marauder.

 

I am starting to see a trend in flashpoint when there is a marauder player, where they believe that they are also a tank. Taunting mobs off of me to offtank them, starting the pulls themselves, even on bosses...

 

Lets set the record straight, you are not a tank. You are a melee dps class. Please don't get offended. That is your role. Leave the tanking to the Juggernauts, the powertechs, and the assassins.

 

If you want to off tank a mob in aoe pulls of weak and strong mobs, go ahead, thats fine. But when it comes to elites and bosses, your putting too much strain on the healer, and making it harder for the "real" tank.

 

We have no tuant.

 

So that means you are losing aggro.

 

If it is a regular mob or silver we most likely can off tank it to take heat off you.

 

If its a boss fight he has no tuant so its obviosly one thing. You are not dealing enough threat.

 

Yes we have a threat reduction and I use it. But honestly never had to with my tanks.

[Shakari]

The harder you, as a tank, works, the faster I can kill things, and the quicker we can be out of a group, which appears to be your priority, because it seems you aren't a big fan of teamwork.

 

Yes but if you stop and think ... for a second ... you pull aggro of a mob or 2 then the tank has to get them back ... then another mob he was tanking runs of ... all because you cannot was 3-4 seconds....

 

You do realise that this actually makes the fight longer than waiting 4-5 seconds before nuking.....

 

See DPS do this all the time makes the tanks life hell and makes things take longer ...

 

one of the reasons I stopped tanking lol I don't have the time or patience to nursemaid incompetent DPS though instances because the have zero ablilty to wait a few seconds for the tank to get control of a group he's meant to be tanking.

 

And people wonder why as with all MMO yet again there's a lack of tanks and healers for random instances hehe

[Temeluchus]

You should only have to wait at most, 3 seconds, for tanks to build up enough aggro if they are good enough. My guildie tank can do it in 3 seconds, but I can still rip aggro if I try but I have much higher levels or gear than him.

 

If you have a Mara in your group, as a tank before pulling ask them to wait a set number of seconds before Force charging, remind them that Force Camouflage acts as an aggro dump , and that alt+T=target of target.

 

Eventually, when people get the same levels of gear and become competent at their classes, you won't have to say this or wait until addons are allowed making all the classes easymode.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Temeluchus

[Slashrandom]

Yes but if you stop and think ... for a second ... you pull aggro of a mob or 2 then the tank has to get them back ... then another mob he was tanking runs of ... all because you cannot was 3-4 seconds....

 

You do realise that this actually makes the fight longer than waiting 4-5 seconds before nuking.....

Runs off where? If the Mara is pulling he's going to be right next to you. In that example the fight won't be any longer at all, all the mob is doing is changing direction.

 

Personally I always wait a moment before charging in, but I've still pulled aggro doing this. You know what I find works best in that situation? Asking for guard. At least until 30 when we can drop threat, before then we basically have to guess how good our tank is and hold back accordingly.

 

I see so many other tanks putting guard on healers, which makes no sense to me at all. If a healer is pulling aggro from me as the tank then I have messed up majorly somewhere.

 

As for thinking we're tanks, of course we aren't. We can however take care of the weak/standard/some silver mobs. I also sometimes drop off your target if I see another going after the healer. Couldn't care less about whether or not I can survive against that mob, it's better I go than the healer.

[Tyrpak]

Problem is, yet again, ranged vs melee.

Bioware decided, that gaining aggro is 130% for ranged and healer and 110% for melee...

So you have to do 110% aggro of the marauder to get the aggro back, and he only has to do 110% of your aggro to taunt the mob off you. If ranged or healer would have same 110%, you would be tearing out your hair in frustration and not just complaining about mara.

 

Solution: Guard the marauder

 

Problem with the solution: most bosses have some kind of pbaoe attack, that only hurts melee players. In those situation, if you guard the mara, it's a wipe.

 

On the other side: if you see marauder jumping in before you, warn him. If you see him jumping in again before you, kick him. They will never learn, that juggernaut has to do 2 more attacks after jumping in (3 seconds), to be able to hold the mob.

What Bioware didn't realize, is usually in 3 seconds a BH has already killed that mob, so the marauder will feel unneeded, and will jump in at first sight of a fight, to be able to do anything.

[Serpenttt]

Teach them to use Camo, TADA! Instant aggro back to you.

[Hockaday]

I love it when people complain about DPS pulling aggro when there is no tool or anything to let you know when it's safe to dps. And yeah, we don't have taunt, you just suck, or to put it better... tanking in early levels sucks,.

 

The tool is knowing your class.

 

This is a perfect example why dps are the red headed step children that tanks and healers endure...

 

That being said, I think we as tanks should give them a chance and give them constructive criticism...then let them die a thousand deaths until it sinks in.