I just hate seeing full Veng spec Juggs in WZ's. You don't do anywhere near the dmg that rage does and you don't have anywhere near the utility and tanking that hybrid does so what do you actually do? Here's the answer NOTHING...you try to carry the ball and get blown up, you try to dps and can't out burst the healing coming in. Yeah sure in unranked solo queuing wz's it can be less frustrating to play but it's not like you're a real threat or a game changer.

Hybrid is for PvP or PvE soloing only. Yeah sure you can tank HM FPS with it ok..I've done it plenty cause I just didn't want to spend the credits to respec. However it's not great at tanking and it's not great at dps. If you want to raid then either go full dps Veng or Rage I think Veng is a bit better but rage is kinda fun just for the gaint smash numbers (assuming you have a good tank that can keep aggro). Otherwise tank and go full immortal.

Here's the problem with it. You don't do anything well. You're just as squishy as a full rage spec and you do less damage. You want to run hybrid you go into the immortal tree for tanking abilities to increase your survivablity otherwise run full rage.

BIS relic's for PvE are the War Hero relics...I run 2 +113 defense relics but there was a time where I ran 1 shield and 1 defense it really just depends on what your stats are. The BM relics would be the next step down in relics to use and pretty much everything else is worthless tbh since the BM relics are so easy to get. Stats you want is at least 30% defnse without retalitaion..I try to run 30% unbuffed completely meaning not stimmed either. ~50% shield with a 40%+ absorb then start stacking END and either power or Str depending on if you have aggro issues or not. We ran 2 Jugg tanks when we cleared 8man TFB HM for a server first and both of us were running these stats with 27-29k health.

I've been running hybrid since early January, so there isn't many that have running it as long as me left in the game. While my build is close to the build you have posted it's not the same. The problem with the question asked is that it's a hybrid build so your numbers will vary greatly depending on what you're doing. If I just plain dps I'll hit 300k+ dmg all day long, If I just tank I'll gain 300k protection all day long. If I play balanced like I normally do 200-250k damage with 200-250k protection are normal. That's the power of the build it's balance and ability to adapt to whatever you want to do with it.

BS I've been running the hybrid build since January and there isn't anyone that I can't kill. Yeah sure my dmg numbers aren't the greatest 350k dmg is a big number for me but I do hit it often enough. However what is very common are 200k dmg with 250k protection numbers. If you can't kill ppls with hybrid then it's your gear or your ability and that's just fact. 2-3 ppls attack a node I'm giuardign 1-2 of them will die before help arrives and usually I'll survive the whole encounter, regardless if I did or didn't survive they won't get the node. Only way to be successful in taking a node from a good Jugg hybrid is to cc him and take it...if you try to kill him you'll just lose.

Not sure but I run full immortal for raiding and use no acc and don't have any problems. Neither does our main raid tank and he's full immortal and we just both tanked and cleared 8 man HM Asation so I would suspect that if you're losing sunders it's because of your rotation or by not being full immortal since you'll have 3 abilites to stack sunder when you go full immortal. As for threat again rotation, who you're guarding and how often you're taunting will all affect this. Stat's to shoot for as a Jugg would be 30% unbuffed Defense, 50% shield, 40%+ absorb but it's more important to bring shield and absorb closer together then to have a 50% shield rating with a 20% absorb. Then start stacking Str and End.

Last I looked +55 is greater then 0. You can argue all day that it's not worth your time, however the fact still remains that a fully min/maxed player who is using a combination of PvE, EWH and WH gear will be more effective then a player who isn't. As for 2 augment slots are superior... They not if you can't put 2 augment slots into anything and that should be the case with everyone. Yes it's a gear grind for a small gain but at this point what else are you going to spend comms on? I was gearing companions in WH oh boy. Next expansion we'll get more and the grind will start again, have you never played an MMO before cause its pretty consistent with most other MMO's.

We just cleared 8 HM Asation 2 Jugg tank's enough said. and as to guarding a node in PvP solo while 2 players attack it..it's no problem as a Jugg IF they decide to attack you they won't take the node, if they decide to cc you they might, if they're good they will. The advantage of the Tanksin is stealth and them not finding you to cc you and cap the node.

The amount of other stats you would be losing to gain 40% crit wouldn't be worth it. Especially on an ability that can only be used when someone is @30% or less health and has a cd. Shoot for high 20's or low 30's and call it a day. Also if this is for PvP..there really isn't much reason to be putting more then 25 pts in Veng.

You can't figure out how to use the upgrades so it's biowares fault? Yes in almost every piece it's just a mod, enhancement, hilt/barrel or armoring and it's a minor upgrade. However once you min/max everything it will end up being a noticable gain. It's a time sink nothing else, I suppose they could just do what Blizzard did and just put a cap on your earnings for the week and give you no reason at all to PvP once you capped in a day. Now if you don't want the hassle that's fine stick to PvE but wait...you have to min/max it as well..hmmm looks like a pattern.

Or you could just get some gear, and learn to beat the one trick pony..but hey lets nerf it cause you're to lazy to do something about it.

Well honestly they have ways to get through your armor, but the brutal truth is you could have been way undergeared compared to them. 17.5k hp buffed or unbuffed on a 50 Immortal Jugg in Defense gear is just low now a days. I'm running a hybrid spec in dps gear and I'm just under 22k hps. Even when I switch to rage spec I'm still almost 20k...and I can smash ppls for over 6k. There are Mara/Sents running 19k hps so when you run up against someone with more gear more expertise they're going to be hitting you for a ton with every hit. Get War Hero gear and dump the defensive gear hell I'd even dump immortal spec Hybrid is a far superior pvp tank and all that defensive gear is only going to buy you about 8-10sec longer surviability but you can't kill anyone.

And you're not 50

Anyone with a pocket healer is an amazing pvp tank..Juggs are pretty much worthless unless rolling in a premade...every other class can do YOUR JOB BETTER THEN YOU.

I agree! The class isn't gimped and it can do the job but it is lacking in AoE threat, dps and Endure Pain god I hate this ability. It needs to be a damn HP buff that places them on top of whatever health you have so you can use the extra health to absorb damage ANYTIME in a fight and when the buff ends you only lose the extra health if any is left. This would actually give us 3 active defense's instead of 2. Love the class but it is lacking compared to the other tanks we just need some small tweaks to be on par.

Honestly unless you've played the class to 50 just don't suggest idea's because your proposed changes to Immortal are a nerf and far to complicated then what needs to happen. I've played Immoratal to 50 and I wouldn't have any idea of how to work on Rage or Vengence. AoE threat can be addressed very simply by adding high threat value to saber throw and sweeping slash and then moving sweeping slash lower into the levels so you aquire it sooner. Also needs it's rage cost reduced by 1. Why on earth everyone wants to fix smash when there isn't anything wrong with it is beyond me. Oh! it's because they haven't played the class all the way through yet. Immortal also has more issues then just aoe threat that need attention for PvP and PvE but I'm not going to address that here. IF you played one through the entire game you would know this though. Immortal has some issues but your "fixes" just break it farther. So to summarize play the class first before you try to fix it!

No what's broken with Sorc/Sage is the hybrid builds they only have to spend 11 talent points to get spammable force lightening and then get all the single target healing or dps/utility they could ever want from the other trees. Not sure on Mercs...tracer missle spam is an issue but haven't played around enough to find a way to break them like a Sorc/Sage.

One: You're taking my post out of context as I clearly state it not the ability that is OP it's the T3 talent that makes it spammable that is. Two: Reading is fundamental, those numbers are against 519 expertise Champ geared Immortal Jugg. Tracer and snipe when they hit cause I'm a TANK hit for 1200-1300 crit. Sorry but it's going to get nerfed writing is on the wall when all you see is Merc and Sorc in PvP. Besides the "he did it too" defense never works.

Here let me explain it to you again since you're slow. 30m SPAMMABLE ability. The talent that breaks this ability is located in low t3 again since your slow means 11 points. So any Sorc or Sage hybrid spec can have it and pretty much give up nothing for it. Now you say interrupt it? Uh spammable remember! Remember now it's hitting Champ geared tanks for 2450 in 3 sec @30m so it hits everyone else harder every Sorc and Sage has it and spams it. Slowed knocked back out or ranged int....force sprint away spam some more. Oh wait did I meantion it's a tier 3 talent so full single target heals...heal back up heal my buddies...spam some more. You don't have to agree with me but I'm willing to bet my large pay check against yours that it will be nerfed. With over a decade of MMO pvp I have yet to see a dev agree that 1 button ability spam is how they want the class played.

On a spammable 1 button 30m ranged ability yes I do especially since an equally geared Sorc/Sage is running 14-15k hps. Only class where 2 of them can blow anyone up in secs if they focus with just 1 ability. I don't mind the ability it's the talent that makes it spammable and is in Tier 3 of the tree where the problem lies.

The he'll we do, Immortal Jugg in almost full Champion gear 519 Expertise and I constantly get hit with force lightening ticks between 600-800. I expect it will be nerfed because I doubt I'm getting buffed. When a class relies so heavily on a spammable 1 button ability to do 90% of their damage you can just expect changes.

Those aren't tanks those are dps using taunt to get medals they rarely have anyone under guard don't cc and just dps like crazy they're only looking for the 10k protection medal and then they're done taunting. I would earn more medals by not specing tank and specing dps and doing the same thing they do. I avg 6 medals in a huttball game as a tank, 3 for protection and 3 for damage. Voidstar or Alderaan 8-10 medals just depends on if my side is active or not that I'm protecting. Healers can top medals just fine by healing and dpsing. Everyone else has to multi-role to earn top medals as well. He'll I've topped 200k protection before and who got the MVP the healer I was protecting all game who also topped me in medals because he kept me healed and dsped with me. You don't have to heal everyone just the tank who has you under guard a healer/tank combo can hold off alot of players if they FF together and protect each other. Not only do you get to feel unstoppable but you earn alot of medals in the process.

By your definition as a Tank I need more medals too. Because my role is to guard, taunt and cc to give protection for my teammates however over half my medals come from dpsing. I get 2k 5k and 10k medals easily 50k protection isn't hard with the right group but try doing it with only 1 healer or 4 tanks in a group or if your steamrolling your opponents or getting steamrolled, 50k protection takes some work then. Point being you want alot if medals you have to dps as well as heal, it's how all the top medal earning dps do it as well, they heal or guard just enough to get the first few easy medals then they go straight dps.

It's the 10% resistance to elemental and internal damage that is the issue. Seems the higher you go in pve the more mobs get this type of damage and they're usually strong type or higher. In PvP it seems like the best abilities of most classes deal this type of damage as well. So if you don't get a defense proc or shield you pretty much get hit for full strength. To fix it all the really need to do is just buff Soresu form or the talents in the Immortal tree to about 20-30% with talents that should land you at 24-36% IIRC. (not sure posting from my phone) This would pretty much solve the squishy feeling of Immortal and then just add high threat to Saber Throw, Smash and Sweeping and pretty much all of the Immortal tree is fixed. Change endure pain to a HP buff that adds the buff to the end of your HP total so if you lose hps while under the buff you then lose the buff instead of your base hps every time. This then makes Endure pain an active defense that is usuable anytime you are taking damage not just before you die. This buffs all Jugg survivability which the dev's have acknowledged as under performing.