Masterwork Gear Changes in 5.10

[Stellarcrusade]

Ok, it seems a common assumption that they are doing this complicated gear grind as a way to give people something to do until 6.0.

 

But what I find funny is, because this is such a boring grindy waste of time, many people including myself will simply refuse to do ANY OPS or ANY PVP until 6.0 comes out because of this. So instead of giving people to do until 6.0, you've solidified that many people will do very little until 6.0.

 

It is just not worth it. We do not want more currencies, get rid of ALL the current currencies and just have credits. No more gear grind. Give all gear slots an expertise slot, for which it would take PvPers about 2 weeks to fill all the slots on any piece of gear thus giving them BiS in PvP, but whatever the gear stats are for PvE. That would put an end to the impossible balance between gearing PvPers and PvEers. PvEers like to progress in stats while doing, whereas PvPers just want easy fast BiS. PvEers have fun gearing, PvPers have fun AFTER the gearing is done.

 

Quite simple.

[mentalmackem]

Well

 

1st: Remove top BiS gear able to be crafted and selled, let people craft 252 gear with a reasonable amount of materials.

 

 

This is actually not a bad idea

[Exly]

This is worse than before now it will take even longer to get 258 since you have to waste master work crystals on 252 to even buy it not sure that you were getting the point of why people were complaining about getting 258 pvpers just wanted it as fast as pve players instead your logic is to make it worse for both pve and pvp players by requiring 252 to buy 258 it makes no sense.

 

They are very good at being wrong about things. I can't speak for others, but a long grind is not something that makes me want to play the game.

 

I also wonder just how long it will be before 6.0 comes out. It seams to me that they expect this grind to last most people from 4 to 6 months, and if that is true, then 6.0 probably wont be out before summer or fall of 2019.

[Exly]

I thought that after the 5.6 changes, the people still playing had largely relaxed about GC as a gearing mechanism?

 

In other words, didn't they finally "fix" GC so that it was in a halfway decent state?

 

GC was a bad idea from the start. Fixing it is not possible, it is only possible to make it less bad. This is a game that has encouraged people to create play alts. and long gear grinds like that in the original CXP grind, and in the new gearing system are not friendly to a person with alts to paly.

 

The should make gear easier to get, and let us spend our time getting it for several alts. and not just one main toon.

[menofhorror]

I do agree that this way it really takes forever for a character to get ready for ranked pvp for example.

[EricMusco]

Can we get an answer on what all of the rotating weekly missions will be, and if there will be a GSF mission in the rotation?

 

The rotating Mission will contain one of 4 objectives:

• Story Mode Ops
  
• Master Mode Flashpoints
  
• Galactic Starfighter
  
• Ranked PvP (the team is exploring changing this to unranked instead)
  

One thing was not mentioned in the post from Eric.

 

In the commando crates is a possibility to get a random reputation token.

 

Will there be with 5.10 also the Ossus reputation token included in the commando crates?

 

Would be interesting to know, now this rank matters for the vendor to get the MW gear.

 

Currently Ossus Rep tokens will not drop in Command Crates. However, there are a large number of sources both on and off Ossus to earn that Reputation.

So you are making it easier to acquire 252 gear, but making it much more difficult to acquire 258 gear?

 

You can spin this however you want, but lets be clear -- 258 gear is now harder to obtain unless you are SIGNIFICANTLY increasing the drops of MWS in T3 and T4 crates.

 

Dasty

 

Totally hear you on this, so let me try to provide a specific example of how it worked on PTS, vs how it will work now. For this example let's say your goal is to acquire a 258 chest piece.

 

PTS

The purchase from a vendor costs 5 Masterwork Data Crystals

• You could not purchase the 252 chest at all, and it was not required for the 258 purchase - Total cost of 5
  

Now

The purchase from a vendor costs 4 Masterwork Data Crystals and the 252 chest.

• If you purchased the 252 chest from the vendor for 2 MW Data Crystals - Total cost of 6
  
• If you have the 252 chest from a Command Crate or Ossus Weekly Mission - Total cost of 4
  

You are correct that from PTS if you only use MW Data Crystals to acquire gear it will cost 1 more Crystal per piece of gear. However, for any 258 that you purchase using a 252 piece acquired from a Command Crate or the Ossus Weekly it is actually 1 Crystal cheaper.

[EricMusco]

Despite the jump in reputation from hero to champion to gain 258 gear, this looks a lot better than what was on PTS prior.

 

That said, any thoughts on how crafting 258 works on PTS with the Forgotten materials or how to acquire alternative item modifications such as the 258 versions of Warding Mod B or Lethal Mod B?

 

I will verify but I am pretty sure that alternate mods at 258 (such as what you described) are crafted with the schematics learned from reverse engineering.

 

Will 258 MH/OH be added to the Masterwork 258 vendor?

*snip*

 

258 weapons will not be available with Game Update 5.10. They will be available early next year to coincide with a new piece of group content.

 

Since the WBs are going to key for some PVEers, what's the respawn timer on those going to look like?

 

Current respawn time is 15 minutes. The team will monitor to see if it needs to go lower as they are very sensitive to the possibility of multiple groups trying to kill them for the Weekly.

[casirabit]

258 weapons will not be available with Game Update 5.10. They will be available early next year to coincide with a new piece of group content.

 

Are you trying to run solo players from the game? I have a guild so not a problem for me as we do things together but what I have seen so far from this summer to now is those people that like to solo have no reason to actually keep playing. Do you honestly expect them to stay when you don't give them anything they can do and they are not fans in grouping up? I know too many on the forums that only do solo activities and they are already thinking about leaving and they are not the type to say one thing and do the opposite. They have never threatened to leave but yet now they are considering it with all this mess.

Edited November 21, 2018 by casirabit

[DzastinBiberi]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback and questions coming. I am passing the feedback onto the team and working on getting your questions answered. I will pass on details as I have them.

 

Thanks.

 

-eric

 

I have a suggestion.

 

Let us buy 252 gear with 248 shells and UC, like the current system we have atm.

 

That way, PVPers wont have to do PVE stuff they dont like or rely on RNG crates for gear boxes, they could just use their hard earned UC and shells to get 252 gear.

 

But if players want top gear for the end content, they would need reputation, MWS and 252 shell to get it.

 

PVP bolster is gonna be 252 anyway, so having in PVP 252 gear, wont hurt.

 

End content gear (258) would take far more effort to get it and more rewarding over 252 and over PVP bolster.

 

The same system could work well for both, PVE and PVPers.

[kukumburr]

258 weapons will not be available with Game Update 5.10. They will be available early next year to coincide with a new piece of group content.

 

Does this mean no one can get them? I'm just wondering because you can get the crafting schematics for the 258 MH/OH on PTS currently. Is that going to be removed? Or does the crafting mat that's assumed to come from NiM GotM not even drop at all?

 

I mean I'm fine with it if everyone has to wait I'm just confused because they do exist on PTS currently, even if they're not on the vendor.

[RikuvonDrake]

Does this mean no one can get them? I'm just wondering because you can get the crafting schematics for the 258 MH/OH on PTS currently. Is that going to be removed? Or does the crafting mat that's assumed to come from NiM GotM not even drop at all?

 

I mean I'm fine with it if everyone has to wait I'm just confused because they do exist on PTS currently, even if they're not on the vendor.

 

The MH/OH crafting material has yet to drop from MM Gods, so it's possible they haven't introduced it at yet.

[omaan]

I will verify but I am pretty sure that alternate mods at 258 (such as what you described) are crafted with the schematics learned from reverse engineering.

 

 

 

258 weapons will not be available with Game Update 5.10. They will be available early next year to coincide with a new piece of group content.

 

 

 

Current respawn time is 15 minutes. The team will monitor to see if it needs to go lower as they are very sensitive to the possibility of multiple groups trying to kill them for the Weekly.

 

You force people to do ur booring dumb content instead of leting them to do what THEY WANT. How iam suppose to get gold on 4 characters in ranked if you take my time on gear grind?And season lasts only 6 months and i NEED GEAR to be competetive in ranked!

[Pandoras_Jar]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback and questions coming. I am passing the feedback onto the team and working on getting your questions answered. I will pass on details as I have them.

 

Thanks.

 

-eric

 

Just to add further to my comments now that I've had more time to think things over. I feel there are a couple of things that you guys should address.

 

Firstly, I think part of the problem is your introducing a massive gear grind for just an update. Yes, there's an okay amount of content, but it's not an Expansion. It feels like at this point you're introducing this grind to keep players occupied until 6.0 which is likely still pretty far aways off. Adding two tiers of gear to get for just an Update is a bit too much TBH. Since 252 is just a stepping stone to 258, I would prefer to see it removed or made a lot cheaper to get.

 

Secondly, this gearing system continues to be not very alt friendly at all. This has been an ongoing issue since 5.0 launched and hopefully, something that will be addressed with however gearing ends up working for 6.0. Which is why I will again advocate for gearing going back to how things were for 4.0, especially in regards to PvP Gearing, in 6.0.

 

For a game that encourages having a lot of characters and has built a lot of systems around that, gearing alts remains quite tedious. Yes we have legacy gear and yes most of my alts have 246 mods and enhancements but almost all of them are still in 230 set armourings because GC is too much of a grind to do on so many characters especially if you PvP only. The GC system forces you to focus on one character for a long period of time just to fully gear them which is not very alt friendly at all.

 

The only positive with this new system coming in 5.10 is that you can skip the GC grind entirely and get straight into 252/258 gear (this is DEFINITELY a step in the right direction). But regardless it's still at least 7 weeks if you do all the weeklies/content possible to get full 258 and that's just one character (that's assuming you aren't a NIM Raider).

 

Even though the majority of players do not need this gear, they still want it. This is the byproduct of a couple of things. Having top gear accessible to everyone simply through a ridiculous grind for so long and, for some more active players perhaps, not having all that much to do for so long.

 

5.10's gearing is not necessarily a bad system it's just a little slow (esp when you take alt gearing into account). Plus coupled with how gearing has been in 5.0 and this ridiculous RNG grind we've had to endure for so long just makes things feel worse. Again you continue to force players to do content they do not want to do just so they can get the gear to be competitive for the content that they want. We've had better systems for gearing that worked and were well liked by the player base in the past.

 

While I personally won't be bothering with this new tier (I don't do NIM or Ranked PvP so don't need it and don't have the luxury of time anyway) I do sympathise with those who want it for whatever reason. I would again implore the Devs for 6.0 to please do away with the one grind for all gearing mentality (it isn't fun for anyone or alt friendly) and bring back separate PvP and PvE gear (like we had in 4.0).

Edited November 21, 2018 by Pandoras_Jar

[Exly]

258 weapons will not be available with Game Update 5.10. They will be available early next year to coincide with a new piece of group content.

[/color]

 

So, for those that want to unsub and skip the long and tedious grind to get gear that will be obsolete when 6.0 hits, I wonder, how long will they be away from the game.

 

I say this because I know people who are contemplating doing this, and I want to know.

[OrionLives]

So this won't get seen by anyone important but since I have a passion for this game I'm requiring myself to chime in.

 

I have dozens of alts. I have a ridiculous amount of time played in this game. I LOVE this game...

 

HOWEVER

 

I no longer have the time to play 4-6 hours per day. And from what I'm reading IM NOT ALONE in this.

 

I'd love to play my SNIPER, my MARAUDER, my POWERTECH, my SORC, my MERC, hell I'd even like to play my SENTINEL again. Congrats tho Bioware… you've destroyed my alts and are forcing me to choose one character to gear out. Inevitably it will end up being my sniper but just KNOWING that I'll never have the time to reach GC 300+ on my other 5 toons that are dear to my heart and that I love playing... its heartbreaking. Because now I have 1 SINGULAR character that has hope of being BIS.

 

And we say it every year, every update, and I see dozens of posts on the forums saying the exact same thing... and nothing ever changes.

 

Expertise needs to come back in my opinion. Getting rid of it was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. And you need to give the BIS to those who earn it in PvE. Instead of forcing competitive players to either leave the game or play PvE.

[giorgo]

Lol gear in doses that's a new world first. What are you, a bank or something?

So you guys in reality introduce not 1 but 2 tiers of gear. Well played I guess. F this sh*t I am done. Maybe I'll be back in 6.0 if it ever goes live and if it isn't a huge clusterf**k gearing wise. Goodbye and thx for all the fish.

[Neulwen]

Feedback, from a warzone (aka unranked) pvp perspective.

 

 

Doing undesired content

So the main problem is that with this suggested system, many of us will have to participate in content that we do not enjoy, in order to gear up most efficiently. This is not fun. We have RL for chores; we play games to get away from RL. The rotating weekly mission will sometimes be of a nature that suits a player group, and sometimes not. For the other weekly, as warzone only players for example, we will be forced to do world bosses, or ranked arenas. Many of us don't like either, or aren't in a good position to do them. If I have understood correctly, only wins will count towards the arena weekly, so players will need proper teams, which is not trivial to gather, and a lot of investment for the mere purpose of gearing up for other content. (It's good that you are rewarding wins, but forcing cross-content is not good.)

 

Suggestions:

- Rotating weekly: Make it to complete ONE of either a pvp or pve objective.

- WB / R Arena weekly: Include a number of warzone wins as an 'or' into this mission. This should also stimulate people to do more objectives in warzones.

- Remove the reputation requirements on buying the gear. (Why even have this? There is enough time-gating as is with the proposed system.) Warzone players have no ways of farming this without doing undesired content.

 

 

Bad gear system for pvp

The problem with an excessively long gear grind for pvp is that, due to the varying amounts of time players can play, and the varying willingness to do various types of content, players will gear up at different speeds. Some will be relatively fast, while others -- mostly casual players, many of them of less skill -- will be disadvantaged by gear. The longer the gear grind takes, the bigger the disparity becomes. This all leads to more imbalance in pvp matches, and the longer it lasts, the more it will frustrate or bore players. The difference in stats between 252 and 258 is significant in pvp. The new gear is supposedly aimed at players who do NiM ops, but as it will have an effect in pvp, players who do not have it will be at a disadvantage over those who do. Therefore, pvpers will need to be obtaining this gear.

 

Suggestions:

- Increase pvp bolster to 258, or at least 256 (including augment bolster ofcourse). It would still be beneficial to get 258 gear even with 258 bolster, for min-maxing purposes.

- Alternatively, make the 258 gear have the same stats as 252, but with an added bonus per item that is only active in NiM GotM. This way pvpers and generally players who don't do NiM ops will not be affected by this gear.

 

 

Weapons not buyable for MW crystals

Not everyone has billions of credits to spend on the crafted 258 weapons/offhands, and not everyone does NiM ops. Those who do of course, will have a not insignificant stat advantage in pvp. Buying cartel coins to buy items to sell on the GTN to make money for buying weapons does not make a good game environment. Pay to win is not good.

 

Suggestions:

- Make weapons/offhands buyable for MW crystals, or do not make them available from any source.

- Make materials for crafting 258s more available, or do not make 258s craftable.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Neulwen

[Neulwen]

The rotating Mission will contain one of 4 objectives:

• Story Mode Ops
  
• Master Mode Flashpoints
  
• Galactic Starfighter
  
• Ranked PvP (the team is exploring changing this to unranked instead)
  

Didn't see this post when I made my previous post.

Please just make this weekly be to complete ONE OF EITHER of these, every week. Keep ranked arenas in, but additionally add unranked warzones as an objective as well. That way people can choose what to play. Choice is good.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Neulwen

[Totemdancer]

Is it my imagination or did the post I made in the general section to link this thread disappear in the last 8 hours?

 

The thread was there for people who don’t follow the PTS and might want some information about the 5.10 gearing.

I didn’t break any TOS and I quoted exactly what Musco posted and a link to this thread.

 

So why has it disappeared?

[Totemdancer]

The rotating Mission will contain one of 4 objectives:

• Story Mode Ops
  
• Master Mode Flashpoints
  
• Galactic Starfighter
  
• Ranked PvP (the team is exploring changing this to unranked instead)
  

 

Didn't see this post when I made my previous post.

Please just make this weekly be to complete ONE OF EITHER of these, every week. Keep ranked arenas in, but additionally add unranked warzones as an objective as well. That way people can choose what to play. Choice is good.

 

Yes, I agree.

1. Remove the rotating aspect of it and just make it - “Complete one of these weekly mission activities”

2. I also agree that unranked WZs need to be included.

 

I don’t understand why it needs to be a rotating weekly to start with. Let people choose and play what they want, forcing people to play what they don’t want will only make them quit the game.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Totemdancer

[Exly]

So this won't get seen by anyone important but since I have a passion for this game I'm requiring myself to chime in.

 

I have dozens of alts. I have a ridiculous amount of time played in this game. I LOVE this game...

 

HOWEVER

 

I no longer have the time to play 4-6 hours per day. And from what I'm reading IM NOT ALONE in this.

 

I'd love to play my SNIPER, my MARAUDER, my POWERTECH, my SORC, my MERC, hell I'd even like to play my SENTINEL again. Congrats tho Bioware… you've destroyed my alts and are forcing me to choose one character to gear out. Inevitably it will end up being my sniper but just KNOWING that I'll never have the time to reach GC 300+ on my other 5 toons that are dear to my heart and that I love playing... its heartbreaking. Because now I have 1 SINGULAR character that has hope of being BIS.

 

And we say it every year, every update, and I see dozens of posts on the forums saying the exact same thing... and nothing ever changes.

 

Expertise needs to come back in my opinion. Getting rid of it was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. And you need to give the BIS to those who earn it in PvE. Instead of forcing competitive players to either leave the game or play PvE.

 

It's too bad that the people in charge of this game don't get it. There are so many people like you, and yet they turn a deaf ear to comments like yours in favor of doing thing their way.

[Exly]

Yes, I agree. Remove the rotating aspect of it and just make it - “Complete one of these weekly mission activities”

I also agree that unranked WZs need to be included.

 

I agree to a point. I think that they should get rid of the rotating aspect, and let us complete as many as we want too. It will still be slow going to get gear, but at least it would be better than what they have planned.

[Khevar]

Is it my imagination or did the post I made in the general section to link this thread disappear in the last 8 hours?

Yeah, I noticed that too.

[Neulwen]

I agree to a point. I think that they should get rid of the rotating aspect, and let us complete as many as we want too. It will still be slow going to get gear, but at least it would be better than what they have planned.

But see that would just perpetuate the problem of having to do content that one might not enjoy, in order to gear up the fastest. There are better ways to speed the process up, like f.ex. weeklies also granting 200 UCs or something, and increasing the UC weekly turn-in to 3 times per week, or increasing the MW crystal drop rate from command crates, lowering the MW crystal cost of the gear, etc.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Neulwen

[Dumbaxx]

You guys are making this game more intolerable to play. If it isn't getting a huttball map literally 80% of the time you're making gearing almost impossible. If that isn't enough you're making the new OPs and warzones so graphic intense that even on lowest graphics settings people can't do them because their frame rates are dropping too low. People not completing them has nothing to do with mechanics of the fights. I don't know if EA/Bioware is in a war with ArenaNet and Blizzard on who can ruin a game with so much potential just to see when people will finally switch it off. Or if it's intentional to get people to drop the colossal mess so you can make another game only to bring disappointment after disappointment with every patch.