252/258 Gearing System not viable for Casual/PvP players

[Andryah]

80s music was the best.

 

You are not wrong here... though I would offer that 70s music gave the 80s a run for it's money.

[Andryah]

All the pve people here, saying gearing will be faster in pvp or that it won’t affect pvp, do not understand pvpers or the way we think about such things.

 

Except that is not exactly a correct narrative on your part. You are playing fast and free with smearing others who have different views on the matter then you do.

 

What some players who can look at this more objectively then your campaign of doom and gloom is ---> the gearing path for PvE is no better really (in spite of the attempt on the part of the studio to paint it that way.. and when exactly have you ever trusted and believed anything the studio says.. unless it servers your narrative?). ALL pathways are in fact going to be a natsy grind that frankly does not look to be worth the effort in terms of the power the new gear gives the player.. power curves that are not even required in the current release level of the game.

 

How ever you look at it, the perception from what’s already been announced is a vast majority of pvpers will be worse off than they are now. That will drive people from the game.

 

Nice... can't get full gear in a few days.. so more doom and gloom role play.

 

The vast majority of players, both PvE and PvP, casual and hardcore, will never get this gear and as such it changes nothing from a gear power and ability perspective.

[TUXs]

The vast majority of players, both PvE and PvP, casual and hardcore, will never get this gear and as such it changes nothing from a gear power and ability perspective.

How does that "change nothing"? It literally changes everything for casual players...It creates a gear gap. A gear gap that isn't there today. A gear gap that people WILL discriminate against. It creates 'haves and have nots'. It ensures that the average player will never be on equal footing - in PvP or PvE. It changes everything for the average player.

 

The people who need this gear are not the ones who will be getting it. The people who need this gear are your average and below average players...the top 1% who do NiM content don't give a flip about an extra 2-3% boost to stats...at their level, gear isn't what causes wipes.

[Jdast]

How does that "change nothing"? It literally changes everything for casual players...It creates a gear gap. A gear gap that isn't there today. A gear gap that people WILL discriminate against. It creates 'haves and have nots'. It ensures that the average player will never be on equal footing - in PvP or PvE. It changes everything for the average player.

 

The people who need this gear are not the ones who will be getting it. The people who need this gear are your average and below average players...the top 1% who do NiM content don't give a flip about an extra 2-3% boost to stats...at their level, gear isn't what causes wipes.

 

Tux,

 

With respect, you answer your own question in your post. Let's stipulate that you are correct that only a very small percentage of individuals will get the gear and that the increase is minor. As it turns out, I think both points are correct.

 

1) With respect to PvE, this does nothing to hurt those struggling on HM Ops. It can only help them. My guess is most will do what I do and I emphasize MH / OH across a few characters and leave it at that.

 

2) For PvP, if so few have the gear it won't matter much, particularly since it isn't that much of an increase. (Please see my notes on bolster above too.)

 

So, yes, while there may be a gear gap over a lengthy period of time the actual impact is not nearly as dire as some are painting it out to be.

 

There is no question that individuals who participate in all activities will gear faster than others. It is still pretty slow going for all, however, including crafters, as of the current PTS data available.

 

I would also note too that in some ways, this even helps fresh 70s leapfrog through 300 GC levels, though not entirely since GC 300 crates drop MWS, the current throttling mechanism. New 70s can start gaining MWS immediately and not have to grind out 300 GC levels.

 

But the doom and gloom of some that because 1% of the population will have a 3% to 5% stat boost for a period before 6.0 hits smacks of hyperbole. I just don't see a mass exodus over this, by the very numbers you yourself present.

 

Dasty

Edited October 24, 2018 by Jdast

[TUXs]

Tux,

 

With respect, you answer your own question in your post. Let's stipulate that you are correct that only a very small percentage of individuals will get the gear and that the increase is minor. As it turns out, I think both points are correct.

 

1) With respect to PvE, this does nothing to hurt those struggling on HM Ops. It can only help them. My guess is most will do what I do and I emphasize MH / OH across a few characters and leave it at that.

 

2) For PvP, if so few have the gear it won't matter much, particularly since it isn't that much of an increase. (Please see my notes on bolster above too.)

 

So, yes, while there may be a gear gap over a lengthy period of time the actual impact is not nearly as dire as some are painting it to be.

 

There is no question that individuals who participate in all activities will gear faster than others. It is still pretty slow going for all, however, including crafters, as of the current PTS data available.

 

I would also note too that in some ways, this even helps fresh 70s leapfrog through 300 GC levels, though not entirely since GC 300 crates drop MWS, the current throttling mechanism. New 70s can start gaining MWS immediately and not have to grind out 300 GC levels.

 

But the doom and gloom of some that because 1% of the population will have a 3% to 5% stat boost for a period before 6.0 hits and likely blows all of this out of the water smacks of hyperbole.

 

Dasty

6.0 is likely a year away Dasty...

 

That gear gap IS significant in PvP...just last night I had a player down to 535 health...535...before he escaped me and scored in huttball. You may think it's minimal, but in PvP, those extra numbers can make huge differences.

 

In PvE, it's the difference between wiping on a boss with 20% health left vs beating it (4 DPS at 5% more damage) - that's pretty significan't imo. It DOES impact things that everyday common players encounter. It also allows a lot of average players to take a step towards progression Ops, opening a HUGE door of new gameplay for them.

 

It's simply not healthy for this game...new gear is a GREAT IDEA...just not the ridiculous path to acquire it. Claiming it's only really beneficial for the folk doing NiM GotM is asinine. That new gear could do a lot of good for this game for the average player. Last years nerfs HURT...this is a good way to rectify that a bit.

[Jdast]

6.0 is likely a year away Dasty...

 

That gear gap IS significant in PvP...just last night I had a player down to 535 health...535...before he escaped me and scored in huttball. You may think it's minimal, but in PvP, those extra numbers can make huge differences.

 

In PvE, it's the difference between wiping on a boss with 20% health left vs beating it (4 DPS at 5% more damage) - that's pretty significan't imo. It DOES impact things that everyday common players encounter. It also allows a lot of average players to take a step towards progression Ops, opening a HUGE door of new gameplay for them.

 

It's simply not healthy for this game...new gear is a GREAT IDEA...just not the ridiculous path to acquire it. Claiming it's only really beneficial for the folk doing NiM GotM is asinine. That new gear could do a lot of good for this game for the average player. Last years nerfs HURT...this is a good way to rectify that a bit.

 

Tux,

 

I am using your numbers. We can all point to close encounters in PvP, etc., which is why I and others have advocated Bolster going up to 252. But the idea that 1% of the population is going to so significantly impact a WZ, when it can be evenly distributed is a tad dramatic.

 

On the PvE point. I just don't know how to say this -- you are flat out wrong because they are not rescaling any of the existing encounters. In other words, the new gear CAN ONLY HELP, even if it is over time. If you are struggling on HM Ops right now, you should be celebrating.

 

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. The only valid point you make is that you don't like the length of time but that applies to 99% of the population (again, your numbers, not mine). Would we all like it faster, sure.

 

Dasty

Edited October 24, 2018 by Jdast

[kodrac]

I just wanted to point out a couple of things

 

6.0 is likely a year away Dasty...

 

SNIP

 

..new gear is a GREAT IDEA...just not the ridiculous path to acquire it.

 

Those two things are no coincidence. The ridiculous path (the grind) is directly related to the fact that 6.0 isn't coming any time soon. So regardless of how good the gear would be for some or how marginal the upgrade is for others...

 

get to it, grind monkeys! /whip That carrot won't chase itself!

 

p.s. We know you'll keep playing and paying because new gear is like a new drug hitting the streets. /mustachetwirl

 

In other words, it's purposeful. All these threads about the math or PvP won't change a thing. You're not telling them anything they don't already know. All the things you guys are bringing up (and are justifiably upset about) is exactly the point. They know they can't bang out content so they have to get more blood from your turnips.

Edited October 24, 2018 by kodrac

[TUXs]

Tux,

 

I am using your numbers. We can all point to close encounters in PvP, etc., which is why I and others have advocated Bolster going up to 252. But the idea that 1% of the population is going to so significantly impact a WZ, when it can be evenly distributed is a tad dramatic.

 

On the PvE point. I just don't know how to say this -- you are flat out wrong because they are not rescaling any of the existing encounters. In other words, the new gear CAN ONLY HELP, even if it is over time. If you are struggling on HM Ops right now, you should be celebrating.

 

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. The only valid point you make is that you don't like the length of time but that applies to 99% of the population (again, your numbers, not mine). Would we all like it faster, sure.

 

Dasty

That's fine with me Dasty. This is a topic I am very passionate about. I believe this new gear would be far more beneficial to the game as a whole vs a few elite players who honestly don't need it. I think it's needed by the masses far more than it's needed by the top elite.

 

I want what's best for this game for MOST players, not the few. I know exactly where this gear will help the average groups of players because that's where I spend the bulk of my play time...with average players. Not to disparage anyone I play with, most are far better than 'average', but we include everyone, new or vet, 50 or 70, good or bad.

[TUXs]

Those two things are no coincidence. The ridiculous path (the grind) is directly related to the fact that 6.0 isn't coming any time soon. So regardless of how good the gear is or how marginal the upgrade is...

 

get to it, grind monkeys! /whip That carrot won't chase itself!

 

p.s. We know you'll keep playing and paying because new gear is like a new drug hitting the streets. /mustachetwirl

 

In other words, it's purposeful. All these threads about the math or PvP won't change a thing. You're not telling them anything they don't already know. All the things you guys are bringing up (and are justifiably upset about) is exactly the point. They know they can't bang out content so they have to get more blood from your turnips.

You're 100% correct!!!

 

I'm just trying to point out that there is already a HUGE chunk of content that most people aren't even touching...HM/NiM content. This gear opens that door for a crap ton of players. They can milk that...not fatigue players with grinding the same old **** into quitting.

[kodrac]

You're 100% correct!!!

 

I'm just trying to point out that there is already a HUGE chunk of content that most people aren't even touching...HM/NiM content. This gear opens that door for a crap ton of players. They can milk that...not fatigue players with grinding the same old **** into quitting.

 

100% agreed. This gear won't do anything for me so I won't bother with it. I'd sell it of I could, but I don't think I can without going into content I don't play (MM Gods). If though, as you say, new gear opened up that avenue I might be more inclined. But as it is, nah, I'll pass.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Tux,

 

I am using your numbers. We can all point to close encounters in PvP, etc., which is why I and others have advocated Bolster going up to 252. But the idea that 1% of the population is going to so significantly impact a WZ, when it can be evenly distributed is a tad dramatic.

 

On the PvE point. I just don't know how to say this -- you are flat out wrong because they are not rescaling any of the existing encounters. In other words, the new gear CAN ONLY HELP, even if it is over time. If you are struggling on HM Ops right now, you should be celebrating.

 

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. The only valid point you make is that you don't like the length of time but that applies to 99% of the population (again, your numbers, not mine). Would we all like it faster, sure.

 

Dasty

 

I tend to agree with your point. The effects on Raiding aren't all that small, and considering some of the rather substantial DPS nerfs several DPS specs took, as the content difficulty isn't any different now than at the start, even with the inclusion of the new gear the stat gains won't even come close to making up some of the large DPS nerfs that were sustained in the meantime.

 

Using myself as an example as a Carnage Marauder, when 5.0 dropped Carnage was alot higher on the DPS chart than it is now. It took two consecutive DPS nerfs in a row and had a major playstle change, it took the biggest DPS loses of any spec in 5.x. Before them my high was 10.7, currently my high is 10 k and change under the same exact conditions. I have the highest parse in that cateogory on the server I play on and those behind me didn't even hit 10k. 10k in a meta where you have several other DPS specs hitting 11k and alot of other in between.

 

Currently, Carnage, a pure DPS class with no heals and no cc immunity, has the lowest DPS cieling of any melee spec in the game. There are serveral other specs that also took substantial DPS loses in the nerfs of 5.x.

 

Now obviously I don't know exactly what kind of stat changes they will turn out to be with any reliability, I've heard some rumors from the PTS, and if they turn out to be accurate, it isn't going to be a large stat increase. Just like the 240 augs were so small in stat increase the difference is virtually undetectable and only really should be considered for the very slight health increase.

 

Whatever the stat increases may be, the loss of DPS from nerfs won't come even remotely close to being mitigated, but they can still be significant enough, certainly so for the badly nerfed DPS specs [Like Deception as well] that it would be foolish not to consider that the new gear as a high priority.

 

PVP is definately going to be effected signifcantly by this and given that it will create almost double the gear gap as is presently the case between 230 and 248 [for new players] and that will not be a sustainable difference where in mere skill can make all the difference to mitigate between 230- and 258. That the health difference alone could reach 20k, that's obviously a massive difference, if that were proven to be the case.

 

There are some highly skilled raiders who are capable of clearing anything in 236, NiM included, but they are the rarest of the rare these days and all 5%ers. Some in fact cleared it in 224s at the start of 5.0. It's hard to imagine,and I'm not saying all NiM worthy players could so it under those conditions, but the 5%ers could.

But, you base nothing on 5%ers for obvious reasons.

 

Nim Worthy players can always clear Nim on the second to best tier because for a lot of the history of the game, they had to be able to, because prior to 4.0, if you wanted BIS gear there was only one way to get it, NiM, so people who got the BIS gear, got some of it while wearing the next lower tier of gear.

 

Wherein only 10% of the player base is NiM worthy, it's something of an academic consideration though.

 

In my opinion, and this is based only on the heresay of things to come in 5.10, because you don't know for sure what things will be like until they become live for sure, I am of the opinion that PVP will still be the main source of gearing in the new gear. It will definately be the cheapest and the avenue that most players could reasonably obtain the new gear. Despite having a 75% clearance of NiM, it's been well over a year since I raided, god only knows how long it would take me to get back to form [i was never really good at NiM to begin with ] besides the fact that as far as I'm concerned most of NiM is disgusting, I hated it. I'll be sticking with PVP all the way for gearing. People will still be able to get UCs even if they are on the losing team, in NiM you will get nothing but big repair costs for wiping, if that's even an option.

 

258 will not drop from command crates at all, the highest gear rating from a command crate will be 252, if things don't change between now and than.

 

I would bet that you won't be able to buy one single peice of 258 gear that was crafted and being sold on the gtN for less than 200 million. They will have everyone over the barrel who can't do NiM and won't do PVP. Running dailies in the new Ossus area will be an option of course, but it will be exceedingly slow and take the longest and probably not by a little. But, that's just my feeling on it, I could certainly prove to be wrong, changes before than could make me off by a mile, but, it is my belief currently.

 

Than again, I'm idiot, so you can't go by me

 

P.S. Tux is still the SHlZNIT tho. Love that Mofo

Edited October 24, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[TUXs]

P.S. Tux is still the SHlZNIT tho. Love that Mofo

And I love YOU

[phalczen]

If 6.0 is really a lifetime away, then the only problems I would have with the system as designed on PTS are

1. The resource requirements for crafting, an average of 30 CMTs for a 0.3% stat budget boost is crazy
   
2. Unassembled component yields from PvP, disintegration, or both, could be increased two-to-four fold; or Bolster could be increased to 252; or both; without devaluing the gear
   

Tweaks to one or more of the above will go a long way to making the system more palatable for the X months until 6.0

[Lhancelot]

In other words, it's purposeful. All these threads about the math or PvP won't change a thing. You're not telling them anything they don't already know. All the things you guys are bringing up (and are justifiably upset about) is exactly the point. They know they can't bang out content so they have to get more blood from your turnips.

 

It's purposeful, but in the wrong way. The changes ought to be purposeful to the players first not the gaming company and this is why this game has steadily declined as time has gone by.

 

This company has the resources that if they wanted could be used to improve the game, instead they have no problem making changes that only hurt the game and it's popularity/population.

 

Why can they not "bang out" content? Oh, because they choose to not fund the game properly. This is no start up amateur gaming company just trying it's best here.

 

This is a gigantic gaming entity that is choosing to put out inferior quality material because they want to.

 

I am just glad they made it clear of what direction they are planning to go so I didn't waste more time grinding gears that would only need to be further updated.

 

These decisions may benefit BW/EA, but won't improve the game or benefit the game and the players who actually still enjoy it. It's a bad move no matter what, they will lose more subs with 6.0, that's a fact.

[star-forge]

If i can't gear up at my own pace then i will most likely be ending my subscription after 5.10 goes live

[Totemdancer]

If 6.0 is really a lifetime away, then the only problems I would have with the system as designed on PTS are

1. The resource requirements for crafting, an average of 30 CMTs for a 0.3% stat budget boost is crazy
   
2. Unassembled component yields from PvP, disintegration, or both, could be increased two-to-four fold; or Bolster could be increased to 252; or both; without devaluing the gear
   

Tweaks to one or more of the above will go a long way to making the system more palatable for the X months until 6.0

 

I think that is semi reasonable. It’s still not great and I still feel it isnt enough to put put pvp people off the game and leave.

But it’s still better than what they’ve announced.

 

I also think they shouldn’t lock those mats behind the MM Ops wall. They should be available in veteran mode and/or ranked. Locking it away for such a small percentage of players will fuel inflation in the game.

Opening it up will keep prices more reasonable. They’ll still be super expensive anyway because the mats required and the cost to craft them will be high. They don’t need to be even more expensive.

[Totemdancer]

These decisions may benefit BW/EA, but won't improve the game or benefit the game and the players who actually still enjoy it. It's a bad move no matter what, they will lose more subs with 6.0, that's a fact.

 

If i can't gear up at my own pace then i will most likely be ending my subscription after 5.10 goes live

 

These are the sort of statements and commentary I’m hearing from a tonne of players in the game. This isnt just a few people posting on the forums saying they are going to leave over these changes. We always get those post with every change, but this time it seems more emphasised in the game too.

 

I really see this as having the same or worse affect than what 5.0 had. It will drive a heap of people from the game and we don’t have enough of a buffer in population like we did with with 5.0. So I think this time it will be more noticeable and detrimental.

How many more people need to leave till the game becomes unviable for them to keep producing any content at all and ultimately closing the game or merging servers again.

 

Here’s a prediction if 5.10 is poorly received over these gear changes and 6.0 takes too long to be released. It’s called a snow ball affect.

1. PvPers start leaving first

2. Casual pvpers will get less matches and stop pvping and pops get longer and longer.

3. PvP as we know it dies

4. Casual players who like a mix of play find that both pvp and GSF are unviable

5. Casuals start leaving more

6. This impacts all parts of group play in the game. It becomes harder and harder to do group content unless you are in a guild.

7. Casual guilds die out

8. Organised guild memberships and active rosters also decline.

9. People who play in groups start screaming for server mergers.

9a. Bioware will argue they expect people to come back for 6.0 and don’t want people queuing to get on a server. (But they are essentially half empty servers and there is no chance of that happening). Once again, wishful thinking.

9b. Expansion 6.0 might even be at risk of ever being released due to dwindling players and income.

10. People who hate merges will also be screaming back about how they aren’t needed and why they hate them (not surprisingly, this will include a lot of the same people arguing this new gearing is just fine). There will be the same white knights saying the game is healthy and it’s just a seasonal thing or people going back to school/work, etc, etc, etc.

10a. If 6.0 is released, it fails to bring the multitude of people back to the game that Bioware held off the mergers for.

11, Bioware ultimately merge the servers way too late and only to save money and not actually for player enjoyment.

12. That will only help for about 2-3months

13. After that, group play becomes impossible for any casuals and only a few guilds still do it,

13a. White knights tell everyone the game is fine and to play in guilds because that’s how the game was designed

13b. Some of the white knights start realise they were flat out wrong and leave the game after criticising Bioware for letting all of the above happen.

13b. Remaining white knights are only solo casuals.

14. Game has become the domain of casual story people who are now becoming bored with same old, same old.

15. Game loses all support from Bioware, the one server may stay on for a bit, but that’s it. The game is effectively dead and just waiting to be turned off.

 

Yes, that is an extreme scenario. But plausible if 5.10 is a flop and then 6.0 follows suit.

Those saying we should be waiting to see what Bioware gives us before giving feed back on their ideas are naive.

Bioware don’t back track on bad decisions. If you don’t speak up before they go ahead, you are nearly as much to blame as Bioware. Whitie knighting is all well and good if Bioware are consistently doing a good job and people aren’t leaving. White knighting for the sake of it is detrimental to the game because Bioware think it’s all good when it’s not.

[IoNonSoEVero]

IMHO aside from the worst-case scenario it might mean that people just won't try the harder PvE content which seems to be the opposite of what the devs want.

 

The mats are only in GftM. But all the bosses after Tyth are tuned to 252 so to get the mats to make the armor you need to already have the armor. So it seems like they'd need to keep repeating the Tyth fight.

 

I don't play Ops, but it seems like farming the same boss and the same Op over and over again could get really boring. And it seems like some players who might otherwise be interested in trying the NiM might walk away because the process to get the mats/gear is so tedious.

 

I am wondering what the rationale is for not adding the mats to all of the Ops. Even at story or veteran mode they seem like a pretty massive undertaking and commitment for a player, and that the mats would be a good reward.

Edited October 25, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[casirabit]

I am wondering what the rationale is for not adding the mats to all of the Ops. Even at story or veteran mode they seem like a pretty massive undertaking and commitment for a player, and that the mats would be a good reward.

 

OP can be fun, if you have a good team and a team that is doing it for fun and don't get upset over a mistake. I have done those and those are actually fun.

 

But then you have those that get so upset over a mistake and start acting like a two-year old and t hose are not fun. I have healed for both types (at least in the beginning). I will not heal for those that act like a two-year old and throws a fit over every little thing. I even told one once to relax, if I can heal through the mistake then what is the problem.

 

But one thing is they can be a bit long and if you don't have the time for it then don't start them. Right now I will not be doing them as I am working on my bachelor's in paralegal so when I play it is normally for a short period of time, but they are fun with the right group.

[IoNonSoEVero]

OP can be fun, if you have a good team and a team that is doing it for fun and don't get upset over a mistake. I have done those and those are actually fun.

 

But then you have those that get so upset over a mistake and start acting like a two-year old and t hose are not fun. I have healed for both types (at least in the beginning). I will not heal for those that act like a two-year old and throws a fit over every little thing. I even told one once to relax, if I can heal through the mistake then what is the problem.

 

But one thing is they can be a bit long and if you don't have the time for it then don't start them. Right now I will not be doing them as I am working on my bachelor's in paralegal so when I play it is normally for a short period of time, but they are fun with the right group.

 

I've heard that some players get a lot out of Ops, but they definitely do seem very time-intensive. I've also heard the repairs can cost a lot. It all seems like adding the mats to all the Ops would be reasonable.

 

For me, they're not my thing - aside from my social anxiety about interacting with others, I have a very slow system, I can't do any voice chat (which I know is big in Ops) and I get distracted and overwhelmed by a lot of different things happening on screen. My own companion and the God-bot are enough extraneous motion on screen to make me lose focus and get distracted sometimes.

[Syal]

but it seems like farming the same boss and the same Op over and over again

 

IRONIC - Look very exiting what Bioware release for 5.10 !

[ultimarb]

All of those threads are kind of useless if the system goes live as it is now on pts.

what are you imagine? that any mastermode raider can afford 36 charged matter for a mainhand and is full 258 in one week to shred all of those poor pvp guys in regs?

 

Let me tell you a few things....

There will be no gear available at the GTN if 258 will be the requirement for Mastermode Gftm. What are you dreaming. The first to thinks the mastermode groups will be gearing out main and offhand (at the moment not buyable for mastershards) for the whole team.

2 x 36 Chargedmatter x 11 (People in Ops Group Team) x 2 (For a second toon for another setup) = 1584 chargedmatter.

You really think that those mats from master mode will still matter in this calculations?

 

Lets have a look to the 24 charged matter for a chest (PTS Costs). In Comparison a chest will cost 3000 UC in time it will be available for all with ossus reputation requirements.

you'll need 4 teamranked weeklies to get those 24 charged matters. (imagine you are a pve guy and will lose straight all 80 games) you would need at least 13 hours (6 games an hour) to fullfill this task. and after that you need the mats from mm gtfm...

 

Common for 3000 UC you'll need a maximum of 4-5 hours playtime.

 

 

 

So if you consider this system not viable for Casual/PvP players, it would be not viable for everyone.

 

Imo this system is slower than last gearing of 248(which is extremly fast considered to all other gearings in swtor and other mmos before). but no one has a benefit about another one.

[kukumburr]

So I got on PTS today to look at the new gear. They haven't asked for feedback about it yet, not sure if they ever will, so I'm still hoping maybe the costs aren't accurate but it's so absurd. The only thing from the Ossus dailies that gives a shard is the Weekly. And you only get one. You can also get one from the timed duration Weekly. The one currently up is to do 4 Master Mode FPs, again for one shard.

 

By the way shards seem to be character specific. They go in your currency tab but are not shared between legacy. So if you want to buy the cheaper 500 UC shard you really can only buy one once a week per character and you can't transfer them.

 

Also there were no main hands or off hands on the 258 vendor. Only 252 had them. I'm really hoping that won't stay that way. That would mean you either have to spend big money or raid to get them.

 

Even the implants cost 24 CMTs to craft. The Ossus Assembly Component is relatively cheap though, for Biochem it was 3 refined isotopes, 4 blue crafting mat, 2 blue grafts, and 2 purple mats for 1. RE'ing 252 gear doesn't give you anything good at all.

 

I haven't been able to get a piece yet to see how well the mods can be transferred but I fear the worst.

 

Oh and by the way not all pieces are only 4 shards. Three were 5. So that's 51 total shards for everything MINUS main hand and off hand since they're not on the vendor and who knows if they will be. So about 20 weeks if I assume I get 3 shards every week so 4ish months for a character to not even get all gear pieces if I don't want to overspend UCs a lot. And I will likely never get main hand and off hand if they're really not on the vendor. I suppose I can run all alts at the same time though, except not all my alts are caught up on story yet and I really don't want to be forced to rush through it just to gear them up.

 

I'm also not sure I have it in me to grind the same dailies on multiple characters for that long. I guess I can overspend UCs sometimes but this whole system is pretty bad to me. Especially If the mainhand and offhand aren't put on the vendor. That would be the last straw for me. I'm really hoping that's not intentional.

 

Also on PTS the daily and weekly PvP ranked missions win requirement is increased. But wins now count as 5 so if you're winning it's the same amount as before, just more if you're losing. I suppose to try and combat people queuing but not trying to win but lol with the CMT requirements for crafting those prices will go up, you'll get more mat farmers, and they'll just be in queue longer now.

 

Edit: I will say that the ossus weekly only requires you to do 4 particular missions at the moment. They are the heroic ones, so they're tougher, but I've been able to solo them (although I'm in full 248 with 240 augs and a 50 companion). So that's not too bad after you get the rep grind done.

Edited October 26, 2018 by kukumburr

[Jdast]

These are the sort of statements and commentary I’m hearing from a tonne of players in the game. This isnt just a few people posting on the forums saying they are going to leave over these changes. We always get those post with every change, but this time it seems more emphasised in the game too.

 

I really see this as having the same or worse affect than what 5.0 had. It will drive a heap of people from the game and we don’t have enough of a buffer in population like we did with with 5.0. So I think this time it will be more noticeable and detrimental.

How many more people need to leave till the game becomes unviable for them to keep producing any content at all and ultimately closing the game or merging servers again.

 

Here’s a prediction if 5.10 is poorly received over these gear changes and 6.0 takes too long to be released. It’s called a snow ball affect.

1. PvPers start leaving first

2. Casual pvpers will get less matches and stop pvping and pops get longer and longer.

3. PvP as we know it dies

4. Casual players who like a mix of play find that both pvp and GSF are unviable

5. Casuals start leaving more

6. This impacts all parts of group play in the game. It becomes harder and harder to do group content unless you are in a guild.

7. Casual guilds die out

8. Organised guild memberships and active rosters also decline.

9. People who play in groups start screaming for server mergers.

9a. Bioware will argue they expect people to come back for 6.0 and don’t want people queuing to get on a server. (But they are essentially half empty servers and there is no chance of that happening). Once again, wishful thinking.

9b. Expansion 6.0 might even be at risk of ever being released due to dwindling players and income.

10. People who hate merges will also be screaming back about how they aren’t needed and why they hate them (not surprisingly, this will include a lot of the same people arguing this new gearing is just fine). There will be the same white knights saying the game is healthy and it’s just a seasonal thing or people going back to school/work, etc, etc, etc.

10a. If 6.0 is released, it fails to bring the multitude of people back to the game that Bioware held off the mergers for.

11, Bioware ultimately merge the servers way too late and only to save money and not actually for player enjoyment.

12. That will only help for about 2-3months

13. After that, group play becomes impossible for any casuals and only a few guilds still do it,

13a. White knights tell everyone the game is fine and to play in guilds because that’s how the game was designed

13b. Some of the white knights start realise they were flat out wrong and leave the game after criticising Bioware for letting all of the above happen.

13b. Remaining white knights are only solo casuals.

14. Game has become the domain of casual story people who are now becoming bored with same old, same old.

15. Game loses all support from Bioware, the one server may stay on for a bit, but that’s it. The game is effectively dead and just waiting to be turned off.

 

Yes, that is an extreme scenario. But plausible if 5.10 is a flop and then 6.0 follows suit.

Those saying we should be waiting to see what Bioware gives us before giving feed back on their ideas are naive.

Bioware don’t back track on bad decisions. If you don’t speak up before they go ahead, you are nearly as much to blame as Bioware. Whitie knighting is all well and good if Bioware are consistently doing a good job and people aren’t leaving. White knighting for the sake of it is detrimental to the game because Bioware think it’s all good when it’s not.

 

We finally agree on something. If EVERY single WORST CASE SCENARIO you apply comes to fruition then you are correct.

 

Yes, if the game flops in 5.10 and 6.0 and there is a mass exodus the game will shut down.

 

Woot!

 

The good news is there is only 1 White Knight in this thread. Every single one of us has said that changes should be made.

 

Dasty

Edited October 26, 2018 by Jdast

[Totemdancer]

 

Every single one of us has said that changes should be made.

 

Dasty

 

The question is, are Bioware listening?