252/258 Gearing System not viable for Casual/PvP players

[Khevar]

Am I the only one who is going to snicker when 6.0 is released next year and people start complaining about how they "wasted" so much time getting 258 gear only to have it replaced or equalized in the first two hours?

It's not exactly a Nostradamus level of foresight, seeing as how it happens every gear reset.

 

You might as well predict that it's going to rain in Seattle.

 

That said, I feel that the complaints will exacerbated simply by how close we are to the end of the 5.x lifecycle, compared to how lengthy the grind is.

 

Unless of course, I'm being insufficiently cynical, and 6.0 is so far into the future that we're NOT really at the end of the 5.x lifecycle?

Edited October 29, 2018 by Khevar

[kodrac]

Unless of course, I'm being insufficiently cynical, and 6.0 is so far into the future that we're NOT really at the end of the 5.x lifecycle?

 

I fully expect a 5.99.

[TUXs]

P.S. Phal, good post. Tux, I do understand your point about how making it less onerous may actually encourage people to play. I too think the requirements are a bit eye dropping -- particularly on the crafting side, which should hopefully minimize the impact on PvP. In the grand scheme of things, though, I think this is all a lot of sturm und drang.

I hope you're right Dasty...I hope we're all needlessly shortening our keyboards lifespan by worrying about this...but I don't think we are. I think the gear is going to be nearly impossible for the average player, the people who actually NEED it, to get...but I really hope I'm wrong.

 

And don't worry about commenting on PvP - I welcome your input on that as much as anyone's.

[KendraP]

I fully expect a 5.99.

 

More like 5.999 XD

[IoNonSoEVero]

The reports from the PTS this morning aren't inspiring confidence in this regard. In the PTS forum there are some very experienced players saying that at least some of the heroics on Ossus are so overtuned that characters in augmented 248 gear are dropping. There's at least one person saying that even a group can't clear it.

 

That all makes me worry that the heroics are going to either a) be tuned to 248+ or b) be another ham-fisted attempt to force people to group. Since the heroics are one of the non-Op routes to the shards needed for the gear, that means that the gear will be even more out of reach to many players.

[translucentwolf]

The reports from the PTS this morning aren't inspiring confidence in this regard. In the PTS forum there are some very experienced players saying that at least some of the heroics on Ossus are so overtuned that characters in augmented 248 gear are dropping. There's at least one person saying that even a group can't clear it.

 

That all makes me worry that the heroics are going to either a) be tuned to 248+ or b) be another ham-fisted attempt to force people to group. Since the heroics are one of the non-Op routes to the shards needed for the gear, that means that the gear will be even more out of reach to many players.

 

Heroics are group content. So.... it needs a group. This is an MMO. Meaning you play it with other players. There is always KOTOR I / II if you want to be a solo hero.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Heroics are group content. So.... it needs a group. This is an MMO. Meaning you play it with other players. There is always KOTOR I / II if you want to be a solo hero.

 

We've been over this ad nauseaum. MMO = many players on line at one time. NOT mandatory grouping. There isn't a single heroic in this game that isn't soloable right now.

 

Making things that *can* be grouped is great; forcing it is not. And sure, they can try again to force grouping, and it will end up like all their other attempts at it.

 

Macrobinoculars/Seeker Droid: People either abandon the quests at the group part or don't play it at all

Aurora Cannon: Had to be tuned to solo players because people weren't playing it.

Iokath Op: Sits in many players' mission logs because they cannot get rid of it, never to be played.

Oricon Ops: Abandoned by many if not most players.

[casirabit]

Heroics are group content. So.... it needs a group. This is an MMO. Meaning you play it with other players. There is always KOTOR I / II if you want to be a solo hero.

 

Nope, I can solo them other than 1 that is overtuned which even groups are having problems due to the waves are not coming in correctly. And I do both, solo and group play.

Edited October 29, 2018 by casirabit

[casirabit]

The reports from the PTS this morning aren't inspiring confidence in this regard. In the PTS forum there are some very experienced players saying that at least some of the heroics on Ossus are so overtuned that characters in augmented 248 gear are dropping. There's at least one person saying that even a group can't clear it.

 

That all makes me worry that the heroics are going to either a) be tuned to 248+ or b) be another ham-fisted attempt to force people to group. Since the heroics are one of the non-Op routes to the shards needed for the gear, that means that the gear will be even more out of reach to many players.

 

There is one heroic (Hold the Line) that is vastly overtuned as the waves all come in at one time. Now some are a bit more difficult, especially for a healer. For both my dps (but they are in 252 gear and have augments at 240) (sorcerer/sage) they can complete most of them, though to be honest the empire heroics seem a bit easier than the republic ones, which I hope they will adjust to make them correct for both sides. There is even a bug on the patrol mission (the one you do 5 missions ) it is completing on the empire side but not the republic side.

Edited October 29, 2018 by casirabit

[translucentwolf]

We've been over this ad nauseaum. MMO = many players on line at one time. NOT mandatory grouping. There isn't a single heroic in this game that isn't soloable right now.

 

Making things that *can* be grouped is great; forcing it is not. And sure, they can try again to force grouping, and it will end up like all their other attempts at it.

 

Macrobinoculars/Seeker Droid: People either abandon the quests at the group part or don't play it at all

Aurora Cannon: Had to be tuned to solo players because people weren't playing it.

Iokath Op: Sits in many players' mission logs because they cannot get rid of it, never to be played.

Oricon Ops: Abandoned by many if not most players.

 

Your list of 'stuff people don't play' is your opinion. Unless you've got data to back it up. If so, feel free to post your copy of the internal metrics for the game community activity. I'm sure we'd all like to know what you know.

 

Heroics say 2+.

 

They're tuned for 2+.

 

Run it 2+.

Edited October 29, 2018 by translucentwolf

[Khevar]

Heroics say 2+.

 

They're tuned for 2+.

 

Run it 2+.

There's no need to be a snot about this.

 

Even in the vanilla game, your companion counted as a "2" in Heroic 2+.

 

During the 1.x days, there wasn't a single H2+ that I was unable to complete while at level, using only a companion. The H4s were the only ones that were actually tuned for more than one player. And even many of those could be beat by a player + comp, though it was significantly harder.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Khevar

[KendraP]

Macrobinoculars/Seeker Droid: People either abandon the quests at the group part or don't play it at all

Aurora Cannon: Had to be tuned to solo players because people weren't playing it.

Iokath Op: Sits in many players' mission logs because they cannot get rid of it, never to be played.

Oricon Ops: Abandoned by many if not most players.

 

I still have ilum sitting in many of my toons' logs because I can't get rid of it and i have no intention of repeating it for the 45th time.

[Andryah]

Heroics are group content. So.... it needs a group. This is an MMO. Meaning you play it with other players. There is always KOTOR I / II if you want to be a solo hero.

 

Dude.. the reported issues on PTS appear to be one or two new heroics that clearly are over-tuned for solo play.... while all current heroics in game are pretty well soloable by every class and their companion and have been for years now.

[Andryah]

Am I the only one who is going to snicker when 6.0 is released next year and people start complaining about how they "wasted" so much time getting 258 gear only to have it replaced or equalized in the first two hours?

 

I get all the arguments about how the new gearing system is somewhat tedious, but as Kodrac has eloquently noted (repeatedly), this is by design. The fact that there even exists multiple paths to 258 sets SWTOR apart from every major MMORPG I can think of.

 

Dasty

 

Yep.. once those green random 268s+ start dropping and selling for 20-30K a piece.. there are going to be a lot of grousers puking all over the forum.

 

The big unknown here is when 6.0 releases and what it has in it. If it's a year away... probably no so much grousing.. but if it's 6 months away.. the tantrums in the forum over the tier 5 gear are nothing compared to the blowback of them being essentially obsolete once 6.0 drops.

[Andryah]

The reports from the PTS this morning aren't inspiring confidence in this regard. In the PTS forum there are some very experienced players saying that at least some of the heroics on Ossus are so overtuned that characters in augmented 248 gear are dropping. There's at least one person saying that even a group can't clear it.

 

That all makes me worry that the heroics are going to either a) be tuned to 248+ or b) be another ham-fisted attempt to force people to group. Since the heroics are one of the non-Op routes to the shards needed for the gear, that means that the gear will be even more out of reach to many players.

 

Gee... content on PTS is overtuned in some cases... who would have guessed.

 

Bug report it and let them straighten it out. It's certainly not the right sprinkles topping for all the discussion around the new gear... yet.

[Lhancelot]

We've been over this ad nauseaum. MMO = many players on line at one time. NOT mandatory grouping. There isn't a single heroic in this game that isn't soloable right now.

 

It appears the goal of the devs is to cull more players off the game.

 

No successful MMOs add a gear grind that is woefully chore-like nor do they punish alt game-play/solo-playability especially when those facets were what made the game successful in the first place.

 

PVPers are getting culled, alt-players are getting culled, and solo-players are getting culled. When your game welcomes only a small facet of player type, you will have a dead game.

 

What is going to happen is the game's population is going to dive. It's inevitable. R.I.P. SWTOR. It was a fun ride (sometimes.)

[Lithdox]

It appears the goal of the devs is to cull more players off the game.

 

No successful MMOs add a gear grind that is woefully chore-like nor do they punish alt game-play/solo-playability especially when those facets were what made the game successful in the first place.

 

PVPers are getting culled, alt-players are getting culled, and solo-players are getting culled. When your game welcomes only a small facet of player type, you will have a dead game.

 

What is going to happen is the game's population is going to dive. It's inevitable. R.I.P. SWTOR. It was a fun ride (sometimes.)

 

Wow. This is basically what I want to say but I’m to dumb to actually type something like

This.

[KendraP]

Wow. This is basically what I want to say but I’m to dumb to actually type something like

This.

 

Agreed, +1 @Lhance

[Totemdancer]

It appears the goal of the devs is to cull more players off the game.

 

No successful MMOs add a gear grind that is woefully chore-like nor do they punish alt game-play/solo-playability especially when those facets were what made the game successful in the first place.

 

PVPers are getting culled, alt-players are getting culled, and solo-players are getting culled. When your game welcomes only a small facet of player type, you will have a dead game.

 

What is going to happen is the game's population is going to dive. It's inevitable. R.I.P. SWTOR. It was a fun ride (sometimes.)

 

+1 from me too.

[Totemdancer]

I fully expect a 5.99.

 

Or 5.999999999a

[KendraP]

Or 5.999999999a

 

why not 5.999999999z? XD

[Totemdancer]

Well Bolster is announced and its too low. AGAIN. I guess these guys will never learn.

 

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

Edited October 30, 2018 by Totemdancer

[KendraP]

Well Bolster is announced and its too low. AGAIN. I guess these guys will never learn.

 

This is what i expected actually. They obviously count 252 to be like 246, so they're not going to just give it to you.

 

Not saying i think its right. I think adding gear at this stage in the game is pointless at best, is potentially self destructive at worst, and idiotic any way around it. Couple that with the inevitable BW lack of bug identification in spite of pts and throw in a few ninja nerfs/changes we aren't important enough to know about and you have the BW recipe for "success".

[Joonbeams]

Well Bolster is announced and its too low. AGAIN. I guess these guys will never learn.

 

I just posted on this in the PTS thread. I honestly am at a loss for any supporting logic -- really trying to restrain myself from thinking this is intentional attempt to sabotage the game (this of course makes no logical sense, but when totally illogical decisions are made continuously, it's hard to think otherwise).

 

To be clear, the gear being introduced is intentionally--by devs own admission--meant for end-game PvE. As far as that goes, the process seems not too bad, and may even be re-invigorating for hardcore PvErs, while totally avoided for the more casual PvE players.

 

But this gear, which has nothing to do with PvP will now come in and create an even bigger gear gap in PvP. The disadvantages CANNOT be avoided for the "casual" PvPer and there will be no credible way for the casual PvPer to earn this gear through PvP. Just slaughter after slaughter after slaughter in a long, needless slog (since, again, the gear isn't meant for, or meaningfully earned by, PvP).

 

The easy (and obvious) solution here would have been to bolster PvP to BiS (258) for this round. This checks all the boxes: 1) hardcore PvErs have new gear path, 2) casual PvErs can stay away, 3) hardcore PvPers can continue with ranked, etc. without worrying about gear not meant to be acquired through PvP, and 4) casual PvPers can try to keep up without worrying about being undergeared. But alas, the opposite was done (for now at least) and the decision was made to "bolster" not even to 252, but to the intentionally-obsolete 248 tier???

 

I just can't...

[Joonbeams]

This is what i expected actually. They obviously count 252 to be like 246, so they're not going to just give it to you.

 

Even though I suspected this was possible, I foolishly thought it would be different here, since at other times in the past, BiS PvP gear could be earned via PvP. In such cases, it's okay to bolster to just under BiS. Here, the gear is intentionally NOT for PvP (which is fine by itself), and can't really be earned credibly via PvP (yes, I know about all the workarounds). So stupid me thought that would be factored in...