gamephil Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) Senya needs a love thread. I might be considered evil for this but she was right about Vaylin being broken. I truly don't think Vaylin had the capacity to choose to change. She's the most extreme example of Watcher 2's and Agent's brainwashing. I truly do believe that nothing cab physically alter it and that's what Senya acknowledges Well, I do love Senya, at least pre-coma Senya. She's flawed and she made mistakes and she fesses up to them and tries to make it better. And she is right about Vaylin being broken. I just don't think pre-coma Senya would let that stop her from trying to take her alive. Then, it's suddenly confrontational Senya saying, "When the Outlander confronts you, Arcann and I will be with them." I just wanted her to try one more time. It would have cost the developers nothing. I wanted her and Arcann's redemption arc not to be tied to being willing to beat Vaylin to death. After "I won't abandon my children to the darkness", after what she did for Arcann, after "can this mother-daughter relationship be repaired", I wanted it to end with something other than, "We've won". No, you didn't, you survived. Valkorion got everything he wanted. And your only daughter paid the price for it. Maybe she really couldn't be healed, but the earlier Senya would still have tried. Edited February 19, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 As a boss? That would be really cool! That's what players would not expect to see, so it's him. I think it would be an excellent twist! It would have been a shocker for Arcann. If he believed he had killed his brother, only to find out Valkorion lead him away and Thexan left to die so he could absorb his spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I just wanted her to try one more time. It would have cost the developers nothing. I wanted her and Arcann's redemption arc not to be tied to being willing to beat Vaylin to death. After "I won't abandon my children to the darkness", after what she did for Arcann, after "can this mother-daughter relationship be repaired", I wanted it to end with something other than, "We've won". No, you didn't, you survived. Valkorion got everything he wanted. And your only daughter paid the price for it. Maybe she really couldn't be healed, but the earlier Senya would still have tried. Yeah, I don't know why you would assume anything at that point, victory would have been defeating Valkorian, not Vaylin. We see him appear to Vaylin a few times, he could have easily been leading her on while at the same time as us. All that set up, then Senya just gives up. That's not the Senya I remember from KOTFE, that Senya would never have given up so easily. Still, regardless of how you ended KOTET, they left it open for the possibility for her to return (in my opinion) so we can always hope Bioware decide to bring her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 It would have been a shocker for Arcann. If he believed he had killed his brother, only to find out Valkorion lead him away and Thexan left to die so he could absorb his spirit. And, afterwards, Thexan and Vaylin hanging out in the Commander's head because Valkorion ate him and then dragged him into the Commander. I could see that. And, before the resurrection, he takes the time to talk to her about her many issues and becomes her self control. He was clearly Arcann's self-control before that, so he has a lot of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 And, afterwards, Thexan and Vaylin hanging out in the Commander's head because Valkorion ate him and then dragged him into the Commander. I could see that. And, before the resurrection, he takes the time to talk to her about her many issues and becomes her self control. He was clearly Arcann's self-control before that, so he has a lot of experience. I think being hit by the holocron during the fight would have opened for the door for Vaylin to learn self control, but yeah, that sounds like a cool story is hidden in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaladan Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) sad to see one of the most powerfull force user in star wars legend to end so quickly. she was the only good point of the story, even if not really well treated. Her conditionning, suffering etc... was a waste and an obligation to kill her. we can chose to kill or save a minor character but not to really deicide for all important characters.. Edited February 19, 2018 by Thaladan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 And, before the resurrection, he takes the time to talk to her about her many issues and becomes her self control. He was clearly Arcann's self-control before that, so he has a lot of experience. What do you think would be the ideal way to 'resurrect' Vaylin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 What do you think would be the ideal way to 'resurrect' Vaylin? There is a tiny voice that says she shouldn't be. That tragedy happens. It's drowned out by the others. There are a lot of those. I'm generally much more demanding of tragedy than comedy, and this didn't really work for me. I basically have two that I favor. The first is very broad, because it's just that I want her spirit to be involved. To me, that's the real her, and I'd like to see her get some kind of help or at the very least a better sense of closure. Plus, that's the character that finally, once freed, sides with you, whether because "you're fun" or because you gave her a choice. I think for either the DS or LS path, that works for why she joins you. Everything else is negotiable, including just having her Force ghost be so powerful that she can affect the physical world. If <spoiler> can do it, I think she can. I really do like your idea of the bad guys trying to resurrect her, succeeding, and then she joins you, perhaps because she's decided you can actually be trusted after time spent in your head. Whether Mother Machine or Force Magic. Or she just heals herself once free, but that's probably too anti-climactic for most people, I just like it because she does it herself. As long as it's her spirit coming back in some way, I'm good. The other is that she was cloned and the clone was sent to Nathema. But that doesn't really allow her to be a companion and, really, then the clone still had to go through all that crap, and that's not ideal. Although, I suppose the real her could have grown up, but I kind of think that Valkorion would put her in stasis rather than letting her roam about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepitabovethe Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 It sucks they made this whole redemption arc to make you feel bad for her and then you destroy her so easily and they're like "PSYCH she dead now" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJunay Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 What do you think would be the ideal way to 'resurrect' Vaylin? Insidious cultists of Zildrog / Izax etc. stole the body of Vaylin and held a ritual of resurrection over her. But our PC recognized it and intervened. However, Vaylin has already resurrected and ... does not remember anything about the past life. The PC can take her as a companion to help her (options to return her to DS or re-educate to LS). Ready script for the new FP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Insidious cultists of Zildrog / Izax etc. stole the body of Vaylin and held a ritual of resurrection over her. But our PC recognized it and intervened. However, Vaylin has already resurrected and ... does not remember anything about the past life. The PC can take her as a companion to help her (options to return her to DS or re-educate to LS). Ready script for the new FP. Smacking around the Heralds of Zildrog never gets old. So, bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 What do you think would be the ideal way to 'resurrect' Vaylin? This http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=932548 That suggestion makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Insidious cultists of Zildrog / Izax etc. stole the body of Vaylin and held a ritual of resurrection over her. But our PC recognized it and intervened. However, Vaylin has already resurrected and ... does not remember anything about the past life. The PC can take her as a companion to help her (options to return her to DS or re-educate to LS). Ready script for the new FP. I like! It'll be like the decision for Jeasa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Insidious cultists of Zildrog / Izax etc. stole the body of Vaylin and held a ritual of resurrection over her. But our PC recognized it and intervened. However, Vaylin has already resurrected and ... does not remember anything about the past life. The PC can take her as a companion to help her (options to return her to DS or re-educate to LS). Ready script for the new FP. You get my robes then we'll practice the whole voodoo ritual. Maybe they think Valkorian is still inside us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Never really noticed, but this is the first appreciation thread without the "Hater" title in it. Very cool, good on you!! Though I do think the Arcann thread needs it, he has very vocal side of people who do not like him. Edited February 20, 2018 by Eshvara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Never really noticed, but this is the first appreciation thread without the "Hater" title in it. Very cool, good on you!! Though I do think the Arcann thread needs it, he has very vocal side of people who do not like him. Love, like hate is a fuel of emotions in the Vaylin resurrection campaign, both are welcome. If he had been written better or had a chance to show how he had changed, I don't think you would be seeing as big as impact as we are. Edited February 20, 2018 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Never really noticed, but this is the first appreciation thread without the "Hater" title in it. Very cool, good on you!! Though I do think the Arcann thread needs it, he has very vocal side of people who do not like him. That's because he was so poorly handled in the second expansion, he was never given a chance to 'prove himself.' If he has a role in the next flashpoint it might silence a few concerns but at this point, I expect you'll see an increase of vocal opinions once the romance releases, whether it be good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Never really noticed, but this is the first appreciation thread without the "Hater" title in it. Very cool, good on you!! Though I do think the Arcann thread needs it, he has very vocal side of people who do not like him. Oh, I don't know. I think that if the Vaylin supporters ever get a scrap of what they want, we'll see all kinds of complaints. I mean, every time a thread like this starts, a few show up, and there's no sign of anything happening with her. I wonder what would happen if there was any sign of hope for anything more? Hate makes them powerful. Hopefully some of that power will rub off and provide the minor miracle we seek. Edited February 20, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Oh, I don't know. I think that if the Vaylin supporters ever get a scrap of what they want, we'll see all kinds of complaints. I mean, every time a thread like this starts, a few show up, and there's no sign of anything happening with her. I wonder what would happen if there was any sign of hope for anything more? Hate makes them powerful. Hopefully some of that power will rub off and provide the minor miracle we seek. You're probably right. That's because he was so poorly handled in the second expansion, he was never given a chance to 'prove himself.' If he has a role in the next flashpoint it might silence a few concerns but at this point, I expect you'll see an increase of vocal opinions once the romance releases, whether it be good or bad. It'll probably raise the Arcann hate thread from the depths of dead! Anyway, it was just nice to see, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Oh, I don't know. I think that if the Vaylin supporters ever get a scrap of what they want, we'll see all kinds of complaints. I mean, every time a thread like this starts, a few show up, and there's no sign of anything happening with her. I wonder what would happen if there was any sign of hope for anything more? Hate makes them powerful. Hopefully some of that power will rub off and provide the minor miracle we seek. Despite our preferences, while we're stuck in this 'us vs them' mentality, no one will win. On to the subject of Vaylin though, I wouldn't like to say, depending on how a return for her would be written would likely determine whether the masses would approve or disapprove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Despite our preferences, while we're stuck in this 'us vs them' mentality, no one will win. Like those dang youngsters say these days, IKR? On to the subject of Vaylin though, I wouldn't like to say, depending on how a return for her would be written would likely determine whether the masses would approve or disapprove. Hopefully, we'll get a chance to find out. For me, even a sub-par return story is better than leaving it as it is. Even a ghost story is better than leaving it as it is, especially if the ghost can join me and blast people with lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) We have attracted the attention of the great 'Lord Boomy' otherwise known as the man with a better beard than me. Anyway he made a video about the Vaylin stuff. Video: Edit: uhh wrong thread, but Vaylin related so meh. Edited February 20, 2018 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I hated everything about her. Literally everything. Her voice makes my skin crawl it's the most unattractive sounding thing ever, literally bugs me to the point that I cannot listen to any of her lines on replays. Spacebar. Quickstyle. Plus she's just TERRIBLY written (as most things in EAware's SWTOR post class stories are) and she makes me cringe constantly with her over the top "I'm so evil rawr" lines ("Burn Odessen and bring me the ashes, I want them for my garden" Cringe). I like characters with nuance. She had none. Even the "conditioning" storyline was boring AF to me. Basically every line she had just felt so dumb. Basically to me it always felt like the writers were ALWAYS trying to forcefeed to us this narrative about how all powerful, godly, big and scary she is and it always came off as trying way too hard to me. She never seemed like more than a spoiled child to me. Arcann was a much better character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJunay Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I think that devs did not have time to reveal Vaylin. Her story was supposed to take place in the KOTET (and probably in the sequel that was cut out). A hint at this is Nathema, where it is told what has been done to her. But because of the reduction of the KOTET the character turned out to be just "evil, because evil" and no internal content was shown in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Me too. I do feel sorry about her - I really hoped we could redeem her too. What always confuses me is how she has blond hair in the trailer and later it is brown? I mean I know hair color can change during childhood but why just not give her brown hair in the trailer? Could be that she was born blond and it changed to brown as she got older. I've known quite a few people who've had that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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