HK-55 false advertising as of 01/07/18

[Costello]

The only thing this statement does is add fuel to already volatile situation. WTG Eric.

 

Lol.

 

Really it is genius.

 

There are so many things that this game gets wrong, but one thing it does do well is get the community focused on irrelevant things.

 

Who cares if they sell HK, they already sell the original model. Who cares if they sell a bonus chapter, and for the record don't be *********** stupid people, suggesting it should cost 120 bucks. Its one chapter, not even George R. R. Martin can sell a chapter for that much. Its one stand alone chapter, its not 2 complete games.

 

But over the last year we have had a focus on Galactic Command and how that has been mishandled, Nerfs, lies about a West Coast Server Post merger and now the notion about HK maybe give out 2 years after he was originally returned.

 

But while all this seems to be taking place, the lack of content for a year seems to just become the norm. Hell we are waiting on the winter roadmap, which if my understanding of winter is correct is December to February, with us heading to the middle of January with nothing. And where the continued trend of focusing on the wrong thing, we are waiting on a roadmap to say what content is coming in December to February, its not even the content.

 

But rather than any news on some actual content Eric comes in with one of the few lines that aren't about server maintenance and causes confusion and bad feeling over a non committal comment completely lacking in anything that HK is even coming back.

[LordArtemis]

Perhaps some folks are aggressively seeking these rewards. I will not try and judge folks intent.

 

As for me, I would like to see them return, but only if the original requirements are in place. I want an incentive to sub and stay subbed, not some sale in the Cartel Market.

 

As to the folks that do not enjoy losing exclusivity, I understand. I have felt the sting of this as well in the past, but you guys should know that exclusivity rarely lasts in these types of games. Most items end up in the game for general use in one way or another.

 

It is silly to attempt to cling to exclusivity for all time. You guys had exclusivity until now (when or if they bring this back), IMO it is more important to provide incentives to sub. I expect this was one of the more successful incentives.

 

Naturally if there is some way to offer something similar and still allow folks to retain their exclusivity that would be ideal.

Edited January 9, 2018 by LordArtemis

[ExarSun]

PS - Unrelated, your interest in being able to earn those rewards again has been noted.

 

Is our interest in any news regarding the quality and quantity of content/an expansion for 2018 noted too?

[CrutchCricket]

The only thing this statement does is add fuel to already volatile situation. WTG Eric.

The situation is volatile because people choose to jump on other people for asking the devs for something. One side is clearly firing first here.

 

Now some people are firing back, so yes no one is blameless anymore. But still, all this would go away if people just minded their own business. Or if the issue was decided one way or another.

[ZionHalcyon]

Hey folks,

 

In this case there was a back-end issue that caused our launcher images to "break" and display some fairly old ones. The team has resolved the issue now and they are back to normal. Apologies for any confusion.

 

-eric

 

PS - Unrelated, your interest in being able to earn those rewards again has been noted.

 

Include the light versus dark chiss Jedi in that too

[MerlockVonBaron]

if that's the case give us another shot at niko and any other companions we missed out

[aerockyul]

You do know if they go back on their word about these companions, gifts, and all the other crap they gave us for being subbed and give us a new reward, all that will happen is people ***** about the new reward and they they should be able to get that. Its just recycling the problem over and over and over again.

 

I'm aware of what happens when you "give a mouse a cookie"

I'd rather they make new players happy, and "old" players happy with new stuff. Then two years later maybe make it available again. The next batch of "new" players are happy, etc. etc.

 

Better solution than "I got mine, screw the rest of you for eternity! I don't even USE the rewards, but NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT :mad::mad::mad: I always threaten to unsub over other minor things, this one will REALLY push me over the edge!!!! I mean it this time!!!"

[PetFish]

Did you not get your subscription?

Because unless you paid more for it, or you got less of it than you would have otherwise, you got HK and Z0 for free.

 

You do not lose anything you paid for just because another player can "earn" it too. Well, except the right to brag about something you didn't actually do anything to achieve.

 

Does it cost money to subscribe? Yes.

Did I have to subscribe to get the rewards? Yes.

 

Then I *did* pay and I have every right to brag about doing what I was supposed to do to earn it while others who didn’t and now want it can just get over it.

[CrazyCT]

The situation is volatile because people choose to jump on other people for asking the devs for something. One side is clearly firing first here.

 

And other "social justice warriors" jump on anyone who is defending their own point of view regarding the matter. How dare they be against something I want.

[CrutchCricket]

And other "social justice warriors" jump on anyone who is defending their own point of view regarding the matter. How dare they be against something I want.

More like how dare they want something I'm against, amirite?

 

lol at calling me an SJW though. Thanks, I needed the chuckle.

[PorsaLindahl]

Say what you want. Argue against me all you like. From my perspective those whining about not having previous rewards are acting like spoiled little children having a tantrum so Daddy (BW) will give them a slice of the cake Mommy said they don't deserve. You won't change my point of view. So take it as it is. You have your opinions and I have mine.

 

Call me entitled - I am entitled to the ones I have. And just because I have something it doesn't mean you are entitled to the same. Just like I'm not entitled to the ones I don't have.

 

Call me an elitist snob. Fine. If that helps you sleep better at night or eases your sensitive little feelings, go right a head.

[LordFell]

I would be entirely comfortable with SWTOR moving a model towards something like: This is a perk for subscribers, subscribers get this perk, free, and they get it ASAP... and non-subscribers can access a perk after the fact, by buying it with cartel coins.

 

Honestly, the game needs to make money, to keep the lights on and develop new content. I'm more interested in the game thriving than keeping my exclusive HK55, Nico Okarr, Shae Vizla, and Darth Hexid companions exclusive. If players want to have access to these companions, and put money into SWTOR to get them, I have no problem with that.

 

...I did miss out on Master Ranos. Oddly enough I was subscribed during that time... I was just so burned out on SWTOR I couldn't be bothered to do much more than dabble in Dark vs. Light.

 

Typical Cartel Market companions can be purchased for between 1800 and 2100 points (barring sales, etc). Shae Vizla is entirely static, her recruitment mission isn't any more complicated than finding her and talking to her. Players can have her for, I figure, 2500 cartel coins. Niko and HK55 both have short little missions, but not a whole lot of content associated with the mission... and these missions would still be locked to the Zakuul expansions. I could see accessing these companions AND their recruitment mission, being worth 2800 cartel coins. ZO-OM is an interesting Companion, in that he's locked behind having HK-55... and his recruitment mission has a LOT more stuff, and some other bonus things (such as decos) attached. The whole ZO-OM experience would probably be a 3500 kind of CC item.

 

Master Ranos and Darth Hexid, I think should be done slightly differently. I got Darth Hexid as a sub reward for the whasis... United Something (server merge) reward sequence. I was subscribed during DvL but I didn't earn Ranos because I was just kinda burned out on SWTOR at the time; note that Hexid was originally supposed to be the Dark Side reward for DvL. What I'd like to see, for getting these companions, is a Light Sworn Token or a Dark Sworn Token. Buy the token, create a new character and use the token on that character. This character (must be under level 10 to use) must play through the Original Class stories, making the appropriate Alignment decisions... and once they've finished this "solo DvL" experience, they unlock Ranos or Hexid. Maybe these tokens should be more like 2000 CC, because although you have to do content to unlock the companion, this doesn't actually provide any NEW content.

 

...anyways. That's just what I'd do.

[Estelindis]

Include the light versus dark chiss Jedi in that too

As long as people who didn't previously get her fulfil the same requirements (presumably requiring a repeat of the DvL event), sure, why not? This is one companion I worked hard to get, but I don't mind anyone else who puts in the same effort getting the same reward.

[DuchessKristania]

So what I'm getting from the anit-repeat people is that they don't want old rewards given out for free. Okay, fine, I see their beef there and actually agree with it. Where you're losing me is the opposition to them simply repeating the requirements. Bam! The people get a chance at what they want, they have to do the same thing you did so it isn't something for nothing, and the game gets a few more subs. Where's the issue in this? Okay, they do the the thing, they get the prize, how does that in any way effect your game?

 

It seems like most people agree that the same requirements should be fulfilled, so I'm really not sure why this is an issue. I'm honestly asking, is this literally just to cling to a feeling of superiority because you have a thing that is in no way game changing? It doesn't give you an advantage in actual playing so why all the adamant insistence on keeping it from others if those others have to meet an equivalent set of requirements? Because if it's really just about having someone that someone else can't have that's not a very rational or compelling argument for your case.

 

How's that for forum lawyering, lol?

Edited January 9, 2018 by DuchessKristania

[culwinthelost]

Anyone who asks for hk-55 is a whiner!

Waa I earned hk-55 and I don't want anyone else to have the chance to earn it!

The irony in this one is strong.

Edited January 10, 2018 by culwinthelost

[LordTurin]

So what I'm getting from the anit-repeat people is that they don't want old rewards given out for free. Okay, fine, I see their beef there and actually agree with it. Where you're losing me is the opposition to them simply repeating the requirements. Bam! The people get a chance at what they want, they have to do the same thing you did so it isn't something for nothing, and the game gets a few more subs. Where's the issue in this? Okay, they do the the thing, they get the prize, how does that in any way effect your game?

 

It seems like most people agree that the same requirements should be fulfilled, so I'm really not sure why this is an issue. I'm honestly asking, is this literally just to cling to a feeling of superiority because you have a thing that is in no way game changing? It doesn't give you an advantage in actual playing so why all the adamant insistence on keeping it from others if those others have to meet an equivalent set of requirements? Because if it's really just about having someone that someone else can't have that's not a very rational or compelling argument for your case.

 

How's that for forum lawyering, lol?

 

I don't think too many people are complaining about the ones that have in-game criteria (the dvl companion). The issue is the ones that were subscriber rewards for subscribing at a certain point in time, with the understanding that if you aren't subbed, you won't get the reward. Being subbed from Feb 10 to March 1 of 2017 is not something anyone can repeat since obviously, we aren't going to hit Feb 10 2017 again.

 

The danger of giving out subscriber date rewards again is that people wont believe BW when they say exclusive rewards again. TBH the issue mostly comes from how KOTFE was set up, where you could basically game the system by only subbing after all the chapters came out, since BW was going to give you access to everything at that point. The subscriber rewards were to keep folks around, instead of people dropping their sub for 9 months, then coming back after all the chapters were released. Giving away the rewards now will mean BW basically wouldn't be able to do that again.

 

I actually really liked the idea another poster had which was make sub time requirements for rewards. Be subbed for 2 months total, you get this. Be subbed for 6, get that, etc. But that's just me.

[Estelindis]

The danger of giving out subscriber date rewards again is that people wont believe BW when they say exclusive rewards again.

Well then I guess it depends on whether BW intend to do new subscriber rewards in the future. It's been some time since we had them. Hexid wasn't a sub reward, just a play reward. Maybe BW have already decided not to make new sub rewards? We'll see.

[Ratajack]

Well then I guess it depends on whether BW intend to do new subscriber rewards in the future. It's been some time since we had them. Hexid wasn't a sub reward, just a play reward. Maybe BW have already decided not to make new sub rewards? We'll see.

 

Even if they currently have no plans to offer subscriber rewards again, making past subscriber rewards available again would negate the effectiveness of any future subscriber reward promotions, should they decide to offer any in the future.

 

IMO, even if BW has no current plans to run any future subscriber promotions, it would be best for BW in the long run to leave their options open by not making those past subscriber rewards available again.

[AlienEyeTX]

Even if they currently have no plans to offer subscriber rewards again, making past subscriber rewards available again would negate the effectiveness of any future subscriber reward promotions, should they decide to offer any in the future.

 

IMO, even if BW has no current plans to run any future subscriber promotions, it would be best for BW in the long run to leave their options open by not making those past subscriber rewards available again.

 

If they were smart, they'd do sub rewards a couple of time a year just to make sure people stick around.

[IoNonSoEVero]

The danger of giving out subscriber date rewards again is that people wont believe BW when they say exclusive rewards again.

 

But the word 'exclusive' itself is just a tool to make people feel they're special and have something others don't have. Maybe it's okay if they drop that from any future promotions.

 

Plus. if your happiness in having a companion or extra chapter depends on others NOT having it...maybe that should not be Bioware's concern. Right now you have no idea who has which companion or how they got them (even if you see someone running around with HK for all you know they're in the middle of KOTFE). That doesn't change if the reward is offered again. It doesn't affect you in any way.

 

No, you can't go back in time, and I do understand feeling slighted if they were to offer an old promotional item free and clear (for instance if they gave everyone Hexid for nothing - I feel like I had to suffer through those GF flashpoints, others should do the same work to get the same reward). But if the requirement was to sub for, say, ten months and people did that now, they're putting in the exact same amount of time and effort and money as the original subs did.

[Estelindis]

Even if they currently have no plans to offer subscriber rewards again, making past subscriber rewards available again would negate the effectiveness of any future subscriber reward promotions, should they decide to offer any in the future.

 

IMO, even if BW has no current plans to run any future subscriber promotions, it would be best for BW in the long run to leave their options open by not making those past subscriber rewards available again.

I appreciate that you have strong opinions on this subject, and I wish to cause absolutely no hurt or offense, but to me a "double maybe" is too tenuous a basis on which to proceed. A business should have clear plans. I think it's simply more logical to reoffer old rewards (following the same criteria and giving bonus CC to those who already have them) if they don't plan to create any new rewards programme, and to not reoffer them if they do intend a future programme. I expect the game's declined enough in terms of resources and revenue that they have to honestly work on the basis of what they know (with reasonable certainty) rather than building castles in the sky of maybe-this and maybe-that.

 

Anyway, they'll make their decision, knowing much more about the factors at play than we do. All we can really do is express what's most important to us in the hopes of influencing that decision, as I think the one thing regarding the game that we know better than BW knows is our own preference. For instance, personally, I'd rather people get the chance to acquire rewards I have and I receive some supplementary reward (or vice versa in the case of rewards I don't have) than for neither of us to get anything. However, the supplementary reward would have to be reasonably decent, I think (say, double the usual sub CC rather than the 20CC one gets from an achievement?), because "exclusiveness" does have a certain value. I prefer something over nothing, but the loss of exclusiveness is kinda a negative (in my view), so the something would have to outweigh the negative to be preferable over nothing.

 

I wonder: assuming that all previous requirements for various rewards were repeated for new people to get them again, what level of supplementary reward for those who already had the original rewards would seem fair to you (or people like you)? I suggest it shouldn't be something that requires additional resources for Bioware to develop from scratch, but otherwise I leave it at your total discretion.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Estelindis

[Ratajack]

But the word 'exclusive' itself is just a tool to make people feel they're special and have something others don't have. Maybe it's okay if they drop that from any future promotions.

 

Plus. if your happiness in having a companion or extra chapter depends on others NOT having it...maybe that should not be Bioware's concern. Right now you have no idea who has which companion or how they got them (even if you see someone running around with HK for all you know they're in the middle of KOTFE). That doesn't change if the reward is offered again. It doesn't affect you in any way.

 

 

I don't recall anyone saying that their happiness depended upon having other not having subscriber rewards that they have.

 

Does the fact that my happiness does not depend on my having something that someone else does not (and being able to "lord" that something over those that do not have it) mean that I cannot have other reason for not wanting past subscriber rewards to be made available again? No, it does not and my reasons for not wanting those past rewards to be made available again have nothing to do with my happiness being dependent upon having something that others do not.

 

 

 

No, you can't go back in time, and I do understand feeling slighted if they were to offer an old promotional item free and clear (for instance if they gave everyone Hexid for nothing - I feel like I had to suffer through those GF flashpoints, others should do the same work to get the same reward). But if the requirement was to sub for, say, ten months and people did that now, they're putting in the exact same amount of time and effort and money as the original subs did.

 

Except that they would not be putting in the same exact amount of time and effort as part of that effort was being subscribed on the date (or for the period of time) listed in the terms and conditions that applied to those rewards.

[LordArtemis]

It does seem a bit odd that folks would want to preserve exclusivity so passionately. It has been quite a few years now that exclusivity has meant next to nothing in online games, especially with the advent of DLCs, cash shops and the like.

 

There are items released on a constant basis in this game that were once exclusive.

 

We are not speaking of a founder title here. This is an item that may have had a positive effect on player retention. Frankly, if and ONLY if that was the case it is downright selfish to cling to exclusivity when the game is in the state it is likely in at the moment.

 

Naturally, if there is some way they can find something else that will generate the kind of interest this companion and mission did then the exclusivity should be preserved, but not at the detriment to the games population levels.

 

That is going too far. For about 15 years now no player in ANY MMO has been entitled to exclusivity for all time. This is the industry norm, and any players that cling to that dated practice are simply living in the past.

 

As to the effect of them going back on their word, so to speak?

 

1) They have given no word to go back on. They did not promise exclusivity, and to glean that from the promotion is wishful thinking at best.

2) Players did receive exclusivity up to this point IF this was to be released again. Just like any other limited time content with requirements to qualify those that did qualify got access, while those that did not....well....did not.

 

If those qualifications are presented again, same block of required sub time, same companion, same mission, you still retained exclusivity up to that point.

 

IF this was something you could simply buy in the CM or was given out for free I could understand the frustration. THAT, IMO, is a valid complaint. However, if folks are allowed to attempt to qualify again under the same circumstances you are losing nothing. They have to qualify, the same as you. The only difference is where the time period falls.

Edited January 10, 2018 by LordArtemis

[krisknife]

Wow people really??? People whining about exclusive items I think can chillax here, tons of exclusive items exist so only but those "pure" could ever get 100%, why all the hate for these coming back because bioware clearly made an oopsie once again? I could imagine a lot of people genuinely thought that event was real and new not an old one, but the current one, I imagine quite a few new players where duped, screw them right who needs them? You guys bemoan this game dying constantly never truly realizing you are the very cancer killing it, let people be happy and they may actually continue playing but huh what do I know let the epen contest continue, mines bigger btw:D

[LordFell]

Regarding the appeal to exclusivity...

I just don't agree that "I don't want you to have that" is a reasonable stance to take. I mean... advocate for the things that you want... but those things should be things that are to your benefit. If what you want is to someone else's detriment... that's a fail.