Arcann romance appreciation thread! Haters keep out please!❤

[Eshvara]

I think that Arcann's jealousy of Thexan was a very small thing beside his love for Thexan. It looks like Thexan and Valkorion were the two people who Arcann had the strongest feelings about. Thexan was better than him at everything, and that hurt, but he'd rather have Thexan still with him (and still be better at everything) than have lost him. He loved his brother, and he knew his brother loved him. It didn't matter to Thexan if Arcann was "good enough" by some grand universal standard; he was still good enough from Thexan's point of view. By contrast, Arcann could never be good enough for Valkorion. No matter how much he tried, how far he pushed himself, he couldn't earn his father's approval. Resentment over that built up until it spilled out in rage. When Thexan intervened and they fought, Arcann was, I think, still essentially fighting Valkorion. I think that's the only thing that let him overcome Thexan (for probably the first time ever). When he won, he actually lost - and lost something far more important than what he'd been trying to gain. A deeply shameful failure caused an unspeakably painful loss. It wouldn't surprise me if he spoke about it to no one.

 

There are many interesting parallels between that scene and subsequent ones. When Arcann helps Senya against Vaylin, he's mirroring Thexan's intervention. Vaylin's shocked, betrayed reaction is, in many ways, just like his own earlier one. They both expected their brother to take their side against the parent who "didn't love them enough," but in that moment the brother had a different point of view. And the brother, intervening on behalf of the parent, is somehow also trying to help the person he's intervening against.

 

I'm not sure if Thexan actually loved Valkorion or felt loved by him. I feel as if he obeyed and respected his father, and intervened when Arcann attacked because he felt his brother was making a mistake - but Arcann was the one he cared about more. By contrast, until the scene where Senya found Arcann in the rubble, I don't think he'd ever really appreciated or valued her love - certainly not compared to the way he'd fought to win his father's esteem. But when he saw that she still cared about him after everything he'd done, he was moved by her love, and some spark lit up in him that made him want to protect her. I think he acted more to help Senya than to stop Vaylin from making a mistake.

 

So even though an offer is made to Vaylin after that moment (an offer that's interrupted by the collapse of the ship, not a choice any of them make), I think she's faced with more solidarity between Senya and Arcann than Arcann was between Thexan and Valkorion. I think she must have felt more alone and betrayed than Arcann did. It's all the more tragic because the parent in front of her at that moment actually did love her, so there was a chance for something in that encounter that Arcann really never had with Valkorion. Could Vaylin, starting later, have managed the sort of journey Arcann did if she'd had more time?

 

I have plenty of complaints about various big and little things in the Alliance storyline, but these particular moments with these characters stand out as truly stellar.

 

Pretty spot on! I think Thexan was just loyal to his dad, but Arcann was everything for him, or so I understand from what we know. I also saw something in Vaylins eyes when she said, "You left us, You left me" She looked genuinely sad. Just at that moment I felt like she may have a chance. Then everything else happened and well kotet started.

[Estelindis]

Pretty spot on! I think Thexan was just loyal to his dad, but Arcann was everything for him, or so I understand from what we know. I also saw something in Vaylins eyes when she said, "You left us, You left me" She looked genuinely sad. Just at that moment I felt like she may have a chance. Then everything else happened and well kotet started.

I completely agree about Vaylin. She opened up, showed real vulnerability in that moment. Then, yes, everything else happened.

[DuskIsNotAmused]

I think that Arcann's jealousy of Thexan was a very small thing beside his love for Thexan. It looks like Thexan and Valkorion were the two people who Arcann had the strongest feelings about. Thexan was better than him at everything, and that hurt, but he'd rather have Thexan still with him (and still be better at everything) than have lost him. He loved his brother, and he knew his brother loved him. It didn't matter to Thexan if Arcann was "good enough" by some grand universal standard; he was still good enough from Thexan's point of view. By contrast, Arcann could never be good enough for Valkorion. No matter how much he tried, how far he pushed himself, he couldn't earn his father's approval. Resentment over that built up until it spilled out in rage. When Thexan intervened and they fought, Arcann was, I think, still essentially fighting Valkorion. I think that's the only thing that let him overcome Thexan (for probably the first time ever). When he won, he actually lost - and lost something far more important than what he'd been trying to gain. A deeply shameful failure caused an unspeakably painful loss. It wouldn't surprise me if he spoke about it to no one.

 

There are many interesting parallels between that scene and subsequent ones. When Arcann helps Senya against Vaylin, he's mirroring Thexan's intervention. Vaylin's shocked, betrayed reaction is, in many ways, just like his own earlier one. They both expected their brother to take their side against the parent who "didn't love them enough," but in that moment the brother had a different point of view. And the brother, intervening on behalf of the parent, is somehow also trying to help the person he's intervening against.

 

I'm not sure if Thexan actually loved Valkorion or felt loved by him. I feel as if he obeyed and respected his father, and intervened when Arcann attacked because he felt his brother was making a mistake - but Arcann was the one he cared about more. By contrast, until the scene where Senya found Arcann in the rubble, I don't think he'd ever really appreciated or valued her love - certainly not compared to the way he'd fought to win his father's esteem. But when he saw that she still cared about him after everything he'd done, he was moved by her love, and some spark lit up in him that made him want to protect her. I think he acted more to help Senya than to stop Vaylin from making a mistake.

 

So even though an offer is made to Vaylin after that moment (an offer that's interrupted by the collapse of the ship, not a choice any of them make), I think she's faced with more solidarity between Senya and Arcann than Arcann was between Thexan and Valkorion. I think she must have felt more alone and betrayed than Arcann did. It's all the more tragic because the parent in front of her at that moment actually did love her, so there was a chance for something in that encounter that Arcann really never had with Valkorion. Could Vaylin, starting later, have managed the sort of journey Arcann did if she'd had more time?

 

I have plenty of complaints about various big and little things in the Alliance storyline, but these particular moments with these characters stand out as truly stellar.

I feel like I should applaud well put. I don't think Thexan was really fighting Arcann in that moment, just reacting. I don't think he believed he'de really hurt him .

 

Edit:

I think maybe if the ship hadn't come down at that point there may have been a chance for Vaylin. A small one perhaps but she hesitates (Is more open in that moment then she is at most other times), but left to seethe (And stirred/led by Scorpio - Senya suggests as much in `A Mother's hope`) then Valky using her conditioning...there really wasn't any hope .

Edited February 13, 2018 by DuskIsNotAmused

[MrJunay]

I completely agree about Vaylin. She opened up, showed real vulnerability in that moment. Then, yes, everything else happened.

Yes, there was a time when she really hesitated. But we must not forget that she is very crippled by her father. And if Arcann needed a Voss for treatment, I do not know what could heal Vaylin.

It is unlikely that she herself would have been able to find redemption. Her psyche is too broken for this.

[Eshvara]

I found it extremely sad when Vaylin went to that place to undo her conditioning, she seemed like a scared child. The way she screamed and the things she said. Even though we in real life can't even come close to comprehend the torture she went through and the way she became who she was, it's hard to not feel any empathy! At least for me it is.

 

I was ready to save all of the Tiralls!! :mad:

Edited February 13, 2018 by Eshvara

[Paulsutherland]

what did i just read ? /facepalm

 

can we make a Paulsutherland love thread ? :D i like this guy lol ahahaha

 

I demand worshipping, like you've never worshipped before! ... a requirement of two Darth Marr and Vaylin themed posts a day and a sea cow thing to provide refreshments in the form of green milk for all participants.

 

Paul is pretty amazing. He and I have gone back and forth on Twitter about the Zakuulan royal family for a while now.

 

Hmm ... 'back and forth' would be a good description of the last conversation we had about Ixa and Arcann. Those poor Knights guarding the Throne probably have that 'scene' drilled into their skulls.

 

Yes, there was a time when she really hesitated. But we must not forget that she is very crippled by her father. And if Arcann needed a Voss for treatment, I do not know what could heal Vaylin.

It is unlikely that she herself would have been able to find redemption. Her psyche is too broken for this.

 

Death > Jedi / Scion / Sith Voodoo >> Voss Stuff >>> A Bacta Tank >>>> Good Writing >>>>>

Edited February 13, 2018 by Paulsutherland

[Estelindis]

I feel like I should applause well put. I don't think Thexan was really fighting Arcann in that moment, just reacting. I don't think he believed he'de really hurt him:( .

Thank you. Yes, I absolutely agree: Thexan was simply trying to stop the conflict. He didn't expect Arcann to want to hurt him or to be able to do it (since Thexan was always the better fighter). He was right on only one of those counts: Arcann did not want to hurt him. But he was able to do it.

 

I feel a lot of sympathy for Arcann, both in general and when it comes to this horrendous act of self-sabotage. And I wonder sometimes why I feel more sympathetic towards him than I do towards a lot of other characters who've done terrible things. Objectively, he has probably caused more suffering than most characters in the SWTOR setting. Probably the only one we've met who we can be sure caused more suffering is the Emperor / Valkorion - who I utterly loathe and have not the faintest shadow of sympathy towards. Heck, I still resent Lana for various awful things she's done, tried to do, or advised us to do (on Rishi, on Ziost, and in the Alliance) - and she's someone who's done far less evil than Arcann and a lot of good besides.

 

I think, for me, the difference is repentance. Valkorion never seems to admit fault. If he ever does something vaguely resembling it, it's more in the form of lamenting that he expected better of someone who failed to meet his standards - he's really placing the blame with them, not himself. And of course he views morals as some kind of laughable construct to which he's in no way bound. Lana's a more specialised case. She'll admit if she screwed up (e.g. failing to notice someone's treachery) and confess to lack of efficiency. And if you force her to apologise for something, she'll do it begrudgingly, but only because you make her say it; she doesn't actually think she did anything wrong. I don't remember seeing her ever admit moral fault. Arcann undergoes a substantial change, however, in moral terms. He sees in Senya something better than himself and takes a step away from his old self towards where she is. He needs a lot of help from other people, but the difficulty of taking that first step I really think can't be underestimated. When you've done so much of the wrong thing, it's hard to start walking in a new direction. You've got so much distance to cover before you even approach the starting point where a normal person is. It's so much easier to just stay where you are and deny that any change needs to be made.

[JakRoanin]

Amen!

[DuskIsNotAmused]

Thank you. Yes, I absolutely agree: Thexan was simply trying to stop the conflict. He didn't expect Arcann to want to hurt him or to be able to do it (since Thexan was always the better fighter). He was right on only one of those counts: Arcann did not want to hurt him. But he was able to do it.

 

I feel a lot of sympathy for Arcann, both in general and when it comes to this horrendous act of self-sabotage. And I wonder sometimes why I feel more sympathetic towards him than I do towards a lot of other characters who've done terrible things. Objectively, he has probably caused more suffering than most characters in the SWTOR setting. Probably the only one we've met who we can be sure caused more suffering is the Emperor / Valkorion - who I utterly loathe and have not the faintest shadow of sympathy towards. Heck, I still resent Lana for various awful things she's done, tried to do, or advised us to do (on Rishi, on Ziost, and in the Alliance) - and she's someone who's done far less evil than Arcann and a lot of good besides.

 

I think, for me, the difference is repentance. Valkorion never seems to admit fault. If he ever does something vaguely resembling it, it's more in the form of lamenting that he expected better of someone who failed to meet his standards - he's really placing the blame with them, not himself. And of course he views morals as some kind of laughable construct to which he's in no way bound. Lana's a more specialised case. She'll admit if she screwed up (e.g. failing to notice someone's treachery) and confess to lack of efficiency. And if you force her to apologise for something, she'll do it begrudgingly, but only because you make her say it; she doesn't actually think she did anything wrong. I don't remember seeing her ever admit moral fault. Arcann undergoes a substantial change, however, in moral terms. He sees in Senya something better than himself and takes a step away from his old self towards where she is. He needs a lot of help from other people, but the difficulty of taking that first step I really think can't be underestimated. When you've done so much of the wrong thing, it's hard to start walking in a new direction. You've got so much distance to cover before you even approach the starting point where a normal person is. It's so much easier to just stay where you are and deny that any change needs to be made.

^ Your very good at this explaining/describing emotions stick

Absolutely. Personally it's the emotion, how effected/affected ( wish I could decide which is appropriate) he is. From the very start it feels like he's reaching out to you (Is probably because your Valky's vessel, regardless he responds more to you then near anyone else), when someone so isolated tries to make a bridge (however poorly) I find I can't just ignore them .When people respond to you/events then there's hope of a compromise/change.

Also he just screams `could do better if I could just get up` to me.

Edited February 13, 2018 by DuskIsNotAmused

[MrJunay]

I was ready to save all of the Tiralls!! :mad:

 

Exactly. Therefore, I do not accept the position that "they are monsters, kill them !!! ", as the haters require. I see in the Valkorion's family only victims. I would also like to save them all.

 

Death > Jedi / Scion / Sith Voodoo >> Voss Stuff >>> A Bacta Tank >>>> Good Writing >>>>>

Perhaps it's easier to ask developers to make Vaylin as CM-companion? They would like this idea.

[Estelindis]

I found it extremely sad when Vaylin went to that place to undo her conditioning, she seemed like a scared child. The way she screamed and the things she said. Even though we in real life can't even come close to comprehend the torture she went through and the way she became who she was, it's hard to not feel any empathy! At least for me it is.

 

I was ready to save all of the Tiralls!! :mad:

I felt the same way. On my first playthrough of KotET, I got really mad that we couldn't save Vaylin. I especially got frustrated that some cutscenes forced my character to use Valkorion's conditioning technique against her and (IIRC) even act proud or pleased at having that "secret weapon"?! Don't get me wrong: my sage has jedi mind-tricked people when it seemed like the most likely way to peacefully resolve a situation, but this conditioning seemed totally different. For one, it was a tool of Valkorion, whose powers and advice are to be ignored always. And secondly, it was inflicted on Vaylin in a brutal and absolutely inexcusable manner. The things that were done to that poor little girl shouldn't even be done to a hardened criminal. So to use the result of that against her felt really immoral.

 

Honestly, our consulars could've been Vaylin, in a different life. We're told in the class story's opening scene that the consular was more powerful at age four than Master Yuon was at fifteen. Master Syo comments that the jedi haven't seen such power in decades. But the consular had jedi to help that talent develop in a healthy way, while Vaylin had Valkorion who feared her potential and thus hurt and chained her.

[DuskIsNotAmused]

I felt the same way. On my first playthrough of KotET, I got really mad that we couldn't save Vaylin. I especially got frustrated that some cutscenes forced my character to use Valkorion's conditioning technique against her and (IIRC) even act proud or pleased at having that "secret weapon"?! Don't get me wrong: my sage has jedi mind-tricked people when it seemed like the most likely way to peacefully resolve a situation, but this conditioning seemed totally different. For one, it was a tool of Valkorion, whose powers and advice are to be ignored always. And secondly, it was inflicted on Vaylin in a brutal and absolutely inexcusable manner. The things that were done to that poor little girl shouldn't even be done to a hardened criminal. So to use the result of that against her felt really immoral.

 

Honestly, our consulars could've been Vaylin, in a different life. We're told in the class story's opening scene that the consular was more powerful at age four than Master Yuon was at fifteen. Master Syo comments that the jedi haven't seen such power in decades. But the consular had jedi to help that talent develop in a healthy way, while Vaylin had Valkorion who feared her potential and thus hurt and chained her.

 

Yeah having to use it feels wrong, but your having to fight a much stronger enemy...you have to use what is available to you/ the outlander. I think they only make you use it once, and you can avoid options that seem proud of it. In the final chapter you can free her, and enable her to face/defeat her abuser. You just have to wait till that chapter.

 

On a side note should I be spoilering anything? Not sure where it's required .

 

Edit:

No I think you do have to make a spectacle of it don't you In the run up to revealing it, In front of cameras...urgh.

Edited February 13, 2018 by DuskIsNotAmused

[Eshvara]

Exactly. Therefore, I do not accept the position that "they are monsters, kill them !!! ", as the haters require. I see in the Valkorion's family only victims. I would also like to save them all.

 

Perhaps it's easier to ask developers to make Vaylin as CM-companion? They would like this idea.

 

Agreed!

I would not mind her as a CM companion, it would mean that she wont have any role in the story again under any circumstances or maybe really minor like Treek. But i'll take it.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Eshvara

[Tadagyt]

Exactly. Therefore, I do not accept the position that "they are monsters, kill them !!! ", as the haters require. I see in the Valkorion's family only victims. I would also like to save them all.

 

 

Perhaps it's easier to ask developers to make Vaylin as CM-companion? They would like this idea.

 

A lot of people forget that many of our toons ARE MONSTERS or redeemed monsters. I mean... my sith warrior would never fall in love with someone like Corso. I love Corso, but not for her.

The only being who can really understand a former monster IS a former monster.

[DuskIsNotAmused]

A lot of people forget that many of our toons ARE MONSTERS or redeemed monsters. I mean... my sith warrior would never fall in love with someone like Corso. I love Corso, but not for her.

The only being who can really understand a former monster IS a former monster.

-Waves enthusiastically- Hello haven't seen you before (Not that I've been hear very long myself )

People don't seem to always judge characters with consistent values in mind. It seems to vary -shrugs-

 

Edit:

Just figured out that I've been consistently typing hear instead of here -Hits head against convenient wall-

Edited February 13, 2018 by DuskIsNotAmused

[Eshvara]

A lot of people forget that many of our toons ARE MONSTERS or redeemed monsters. I mean... my sith warrior would never fall in love with someone like Corso. I love Corso, but not for her.

The only being who can really understand a former monster IS a former monster.

 

Welcome back, haven't seen you here for a while!

[Paulsutherland]

Perhaps it's easier to ask developers to make Vaylin as CM-companion? They would like this idea.

 

I guess. Suppose they could do the same for Arcann if you killed him on the DS?

 

Agreed!

I would not mind her as a CM companion, it would mean that she wont have any role in the story again under any circumstances or maybe really minor like Treek. But i'll take it.

 

I imagine it would be no worse than the state of the current companions. (Vette, Aric, Arcann etc)

[Eshvara]

I guess. Suppose they could do the same for Arcann if you killed him on the DS?

 

 

 

I imagine it would be no worse than the state of the current companions. (Vette, Aric, Arcann etc)

 

Probably not!

[MrJunay]

I guess. Suppose they could do the same for Arcann if you killed him on the DS?

I imagine it would be no worse than the state of the current companions. (Vette, Aric, Arcann etc)

I do not think so. All those who wanted Arcann chose the LS option. The DS option was chosen by those who do not need his. Get Vaylin can not be under any circumstances, but many want to have her a companion.

Vaylin could give in reward, like Darth Hexid, or make available in the CM.

[Paulsutherland]

I do not think so. All those who wanted Arcann chose the LS option. The DS option was chosen by those who do not need his. Get Vaylin can not be under any circumstances, but many want to have her a companion.

Vaylin could give in reward, like Darth Hexid, or make available in the CM.

 

Not really bothered how it's done ... Bonus Chapter? Chapter? Cm-Companion? Event Reward? Regardless it would likely make Arcann happy.

[surfdawg]

Not really bothered how it's done ... Bonus Chapter? Chapter? Cm-Companion? Event Reward? Regardless it would likely make Arcann happy.

 

Agreed. And Ixa would have her bestie back. I approve of this.

[Paulsutherland]

Agreed. And Ixa would have her bestie back. I approve of this.

 

and then I'll live up to my promise and commission a piece of Ixa, Imperious & Vaylin drunk while Arcann's in the background looking at them with an expression which is best described as '***?'

 

Speaking of art ... show them your Arcann commissioned art.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Paulsutherland

[JakRoanin]

Who is Ixa?

[Paulsutherland]

Who is Ixa?

 

Another soul ready for the Zakuulan themed experience between her hips and Arcann's thighs.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Paulsutherland

[RandomName_Ru]

Ohhh, so many posts to read with a morning coffee! Sweeeeet.

 

*10 min later

 

... a sea cow thing to provide refreshments in the form of green milk for all participants.

 

Damn it, Paul, I was having a breakfast here!

 

Another soul ready for the Zakuulan themed experience between her hips and Arcann's thighs.

 

I was not going to do the romance on my only past Iokath toon (that would require exceptional writing and lots of development), but maaaaaaybe I should get another one up to date? SI is crazy enough to do it and may fit that mess of a story and... Damn it, Paul

 

Everyone else, thank you, that was a lovely read ^^

Edited February 14, 2018 by RandomName_Ru