It’s Raining CXP, Daily

[Otaktey]

I will BEG you to switch servers if that helps? There's no reason to stay on a dead one...well, aside from this bug But next week, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE consider moving a toon. I don't care what server you go to, but this game isn't as "dead" as it seems to you...Harbinger is my suggestion, but others have their own ideas...we need more players...staying on a dead server is going to kill your enjoyment eventually...so please consider a move. Leave a mule toon behind...just move your main. You'll never regret it!!!

 

Tux is right about this. I changed to second shift at work, so when I got home, Shadowlands was dead. I moved one toon to Harbinger just to see if I could play after work. There is always something going on here on Harb. It has made a big difference in my perception of the game. We ended up moving our whole guild.

 

As far as the CXP grants. If they take it down to 100 it won't be worth my time. As many hours as I put in at work, I don't choose the content I play by how cool I think it is. I choose it by how many CXP I can get per time played.

Right now the old Yavin, Cz-198, Oricon, etc.. dailies are giving me the most bang for my buck, so that is what I'm doing.

I'll have to say it is really cool to go back and run those. Haha, I was on POT5 when I ran the Yavin dailies everyday.

Last night I was running them, and when I came out of the cave and had killed my 15 stormray's I ran up to click on the nest for the monarch. I keep turning around looking for someone to try to gank me, as that is how it was on the old PVP servers. Those were some good times

 

I think all this should answer some questions recently posted by the Devs. If you want people to play Starfighter then raise the daily bonus. On the day that Starfighter is the bonus, you still don't get enough CXP, with the bonus, to justify the time put into it. The same holds true for Uprisings. Keep raising the amount of bonus CXP until you see players running it, then you will know how much is needed for players to feel it is worth their time. The planetary dailies are worth it today, so I will run them until they are nerfed back down to 75. Anything less than 1000 per quest and it is not worth it, I'll just keep queue'ing for PVP, where I can get up to 2000-3000 for a 20 minute match where I got a lot of medals. Or I'll get an Ops run together where I can get close to 7000-10000 for 1 to 2 hours.

[Foambreaker]

This is really a huge disappointment to me.

 

I have plans this weekend and so by Tuesday I will be the only one left in WZs that is not above bolster.

 

This is so extreme to let it go on really harms the competitive aspect of the game [PvP].

[Transcendent]

I understand that the current rate is too much

 

I disagree, I think people that still subscribe are resigned in the fact that "it is what it is", instead of expecting something better.

 

See, even with these current CXP gains, it would still take a heck of a lot of subscription time to get 20+ characters up to CR300 as well as geared. The current rate of CXP gain is acceptable, anything less really isn't cutting the mustard for the purpose of the system, to play fun content as well as feeling rewarded for doing so.

 

You know as well as I do that mixing things up (like playing alts!) is absolutely a nice way of not getting burnt out in an MMO game, but for that to be realistic, you need to feel like you're still progressing in some manner and not letting your main suffer for doing so. Increasing CXP gains across the board to bring all activities in-line with the current CXP gain for dailies / time spent to run would be beneficial to achieving that goal.

 

To play the content we want, and not just what provides the most CXP per time spent playing. Which generally means only one or maybe two types of content.

[Foambreaker]

As long as they think the only reason we stay is the grind and we will quit when it is done, we are doomed to grind.

[Jdast]

I disagree, I think people that still subscribe are resigned in the fact that "it is what it is", instead of expecting something better.

 

See, even with these current CXP gains, it would still take a heck of a lot of subscription time to get 20+ characters up to CR300 as well as geared. The current rate of CXP gain is acceptable, anything less really isn't cutting the mustard for the purpose of the system, to play fun content as well as feeling rewarded for doing so.

 

You know as well as I do that mixing things up (like playing alts!) is absolutely a nice way of not getting burnt out in an MMO game, but for that to be realistic, you need to feel like you're still progressing in some manner and not letting your main suffer for doing so. Increasing CXP gains across the board to bring all activities in-line with the current CXP gain for dailies / time spent to run would be beneficial to achieving that goal.

 

To play the content we want, and not just what provides the most CXP per time spent playing. Which generally means only one or maybe two types of content.

 

At risk of trying to mediate and negotiate (something I did in the past in real life)....I think there is middle b/t what you are saying Trand and what Tux is saying.

 

I agree that playing alts is key to the survival of this game, but I also think that...my Gunslinger going from 148 (he was my highest level) to 300 in 2 1/2 days is a bit much.

 

What if it were cut by 1/2 or even 3/4?

 

Keep in mind, they are a subscription based model, they have to still earn money. I'm a whale and can afford to buy things on the CM, but that won't sustain even me for very long.

 

Dasty

Edited August 31, 2017 by Jdast

[Transcendent]

What if it were cut by 1/2 or even 3/4?

 

I could live with 1/2, but then that's what it would be without the current CXP event.

[-Fabien-]

I just did Section X on my Dark V and my Light V toons and no impact. When you submit the bug, please try to identify everything you were doing/did - like I logged out when I finished the Aurora Cannon quest, or what you did immediately after leaving Section X. Don't give the details in this thread as it'll just get lost and our QA team won't pick it up.

 

Thanks,

 

Keith---

 

Keith, the thread of this bug is here : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9360215

 

this bug is from 5.0, many tickets from players, no fix

[TUXs]

I could live with 1/2, but then that's what it would be without the current CXP event.

I could live with half too. It's currently like 1100 normal (bugged), 2200 with double, 3300 with Superior boost on. If that were reduced to 750, 1500 with the boost, I'd be OKAY with that...anything much lower and it becomes too long to do and we're in the same situation as we were before.

 

I realize 750 isn't half of 1100...but 750 is 10x's what Bioware wants to give us, which is why I picked that number.

[Goare]

I could live with half too. It's currently like 1100 normal (bugged), 2200 with double, 3300 with Superior boost on. If that were reduced to 750, 1500 with the boost, I'd be OKAY with that...anything much lower and it becomes too long to do and we're in the same situation as we were before.

 

I realize 750 isn't half of 1100...but 750 is 10x's what Bioware wants to give us, which is why I picked that number.

 

I think anything in the 550-750 range is fine. You'd get a command chest w/o boosts every ~10-15 missions / bonus missions at max rank.

 

I do think they should add unassembled parts starting in Tier 2 to give a mechanism for (eventually) getting exactly the pieces you want, as that would allay the "woe is me RNG hates me" crowd who are opening their 600th chest and not getting the piece they want.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Goare

[Dak_fireraker]

hahahaha! Thanks for that!

 

-Keith--

 

Since i made Keith Laugh, do i get a code?

[TUXs]

I think anything in the 550-750 range is fine. You'd get a command chest w/o boosts every ~10-15 missions / bonus missions at max rank.

 

I do think they should add unassembled parts starting in Tier 2 to give a mechanism for (eventually) getting exactly the pieces you want, as that would allay the "woe is me RNG hates me" crowd who are opening their 600th chest and not getting the piece they want.

I'd whine about 550...but it would be better than 75...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I'd whine about 550...but it would be better than 75...

 

I think it needs to be more thought out that just the dailies though.

 

I think maybe say a 20% lower rate of CXP earnings of what the current bugged dailies are would be a sweet spot of compromise. Now apply that to EVERYTHING in a time (not difficulty) manner based on standard average metrics of how long things take people.

 

e.g. planetary dailies currently takes 45 minutes from terminal acceptance to last mission turned in (there will be outliers etc. etc. but lets just simplify this for now) and this yields a natural 8000 CXP so change this back to 6400 and your goal becomes a gain rate of 6400 natural CXP per 45 minutes of play.

 

Now apply that to the average time it takes each flashpoint etc. etc. and set their CXP accordingly (just killing mobs open world couldn't really count - has to be a measurable game activity like FP/ heroics, dailies etc.).

Net result is we can now get CXP doing EXACTLY what we want to do - this means I can login and grind doing whatever I like and give myself variety and know that I'm not wasting my time because it's "not the most efficient CXP grinding method" - sure there will probably be slightly faster methods but whatever.

 

Group content like operations has a carrot of gear actually dropping and pvp/gsf have UCs. From that point of view their CXP gain rate doesn't also have to be set massively higher than anything else to encourage group play.

I think trying to trap people into group play by making everything else so unappealing is silly anyway because people will just be like "stuff it, this isn't fun I'm going to do something else" - group play should be appealing because group play is fun or has unique other rewards like gear drops or vanity drops.

 

Now the kicker ... once you hit tier 300 the CXP rate significantly drops. This means you are back to a slower grind to get your BiS gear and to be fair to BWA this would be in line with wanting to slow people down somewhat to keep them playing longer.

This then keeps the BiS gain rate slowed down to encourage longer play but greatly speeds up the grind to get to 300 enough for it not to actually be a deterrent anymore.

 

I imagine most people hitting 300 then from level 1 in under a month which is fair and many will be within 2 weeks and a few a few days no doubt but a month for your 1 month sub fee playing casually seems good to me, it would encourage me to pay and play anyway and the more people playing the more people it will attract to play so on and so forth.

 

The ancient concept of "if we make this really grindy and takes ages to do we will make lots of money" is dead because this game is old enough now it's die hard audience of "we get angry but we sub anyway because we would never dream of leaving this game" has really declined to a very niche group of people so the producers need to be forward thinking on how they can attract audiences back and keep them without putting monotonous grinding in front of them.

[Jamtas]

Hey all,

 

When I found out about the substantially increased CXP in the daily areas I had to go check if it was real. So, I tested it on my main characters, and validated it across a variety of other characters, and sure enough, it was true. I even used the CXP Perk, and the CXP 100% boost, just to see how much I could get on each quest.

 

Then, realizing we needed to stay indoors for the weekend, I decided to see how many Command Ranks I could gain on just one toon, by doing all the Daily Areas each day, along with daily FPs, and other normal activities. I managed to gain 200 levels and to echo a lot of your comments here, it was fun to see so many others on Yavin, in Black Hole, over on Iokath and Section X. I also did Oricon and had forgotten how fun those quests were to do, too.

 

There's a legitimate reason to lower the CXP values as they are out of whack with the rest of the game, but there's an even more compelling reason to not lower it all the way back to 75 and to review the values across the board. I like a lot of your suggestions about rotating it, finding a good compromised amount, giving you a reason to visit these areas, and substantially reducing the time it takes to level up your alts (catch-up mechanic).

 

So, thanks for all the ideas. We'll decide what to do next week, but in the meantime, take advantage of this massive CXP change. I'm confident that'll help guide us in our discussions and decision about what to do next.

 

---Keith

 

So myself and several guildmates were doing the same for several nights ina row this week. And on multiple characters.

I have to be honest, since introduction of GC I went through many different feelings on the system - and almost all of them negative. The fact that you have to get up to level 300 and stay to be in the mix for the top gear just had that daunting feeling that the grind takes so long playing normally (not grinding chapter XYZ 1000 times) that it felt like once you picked a character, there was no swapping without falling behind. It was almost like being valor 100 and gear required that but you wanted to play a new character but it would start back at valor 1 and that grind back up just feels like a daunting grind you don't want to endure.

 

With the pace of leveling in these dailies I found 1) old areas populated again and it didn't have this feeling of "ugh, I ahve to grind through these waves of adds again? 2) more people around 3) able to grant levels quickly that those alts felt like you weren't sacrificing your main to play them.

 

This really just felt like the pace the leveling process for GC should have. I mean the RNG still sucked, but with a larger scale of rewards and the speed to acquire new ones, it wasn't as bad. Almost kinda "meh" on being negative on it to be honest.

 

I know this being there is a mistake and you're working on patching it out, but I think this really is something to contemplate keeping.

 

So I go off to run oricon on a different character - and the first time on this one. I've played more this week than I had since 5.0 dropped. Something to think about.

[MandFlurry]

I haven't worked out in 4 days now, but me doing this CXP ultra-fast grinding does hurt my arms which is prone to arthritis and fibromialgia. Then again, no pain no gain lol.

 

Boy Yavin is crazy on the Harbinger, ppl are even kill sealing, and people are rarely saying everything with all of this CXP goodness. I just don't have a Main, is the problem, just 20 characters for this event.

[Transcendent]

Now apply that to the average time it takes.

 

I always thought that we were able to play the content we wanted to play, and get a box every ~30 mins or so. Which isn't true for large swathes of the game.

 

That box every ~30 minutes, simply put, isn't rewarding. When you factor in the RNG, it definitely isn't rewarding. That's the crux of the problem. Increasing the rate of CXP gains for all types of content means an increase of how fast we gain Command Crates which helps mitigate some of the poor RNG element, those loot tables really need greens and blue gear removed, period, no excuses or twisted reasoning.

 

Which is where we currently sit with CXP gains, you gain enough boxes for doing dailies to help mitigate the terrible loot tables for the Command Crates, which BioWare need to alter to drop UC like they do Command Tokens. The point is pretty simple and it's something BioWare constantly keep missing.

 

Players like feeling rewarded. It's a simple thing, it isn't hard to understand.

 

Since GC landed, we've seen consistent CXP gains from various sources nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, nerfed. All trying to funnel players into the content BioWare want us to play. So MM Mando Raiders then? That's the intention is it? Perhaps if BioWare took a step back and saw the damage they've caused to their own game by being bloody obstinate on the subject of CXP rates they would see the problem. Until they do see it, they will not remotely fix it.

 

Hopefully this bug should enlighten them on how to move forward? I guess we'll see.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I always thought that we were able to play the content we wanted to play, and get a box every ~30 mins or so. Which isn't true for large swathes of the game.

 

That box every ~30 minutes, simply put, isn't rewarding. When you factor in the RNG, it definitely isn't rewarding. That's the crux of the problem. Increasing the rate of CXP gains for all types of content means an increase of how fast we gain Command Crates which helps mitigate some of the poor RNG element, those loot tables really need greens and blue gear removed, period, no excuses or twisted reasoning.

 

Which is where we currently sit with CXP gains, you gain enough boxes for doing dailies to help mitigate the terrible loot tables for the Command Crates, which BioWare need to alter to drop UC like they do Command Tokens. The point is pretty simple and it's something BioWare constantly keep missing.

 

Players like feeling rewarded. It's a simple thing, it isn't hard to understand.

 

Since GC landed, we've seen consistent CXP gains from various sources nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, nerfed. All trying to funnel players into the content BioWare want us to play. So MM Mando Raiders then? That's the intention is it? Perhaps if BioWare took a step back and saw the damage they've caused to their own game by being bloody obstinate on the subject of CXP rates they would see the problem. Until they do see it, they will not remotely fix it.

 

Hopefully this bug should enlighten them on how to move forward? I guess we'll see.

 

My biggest gripe is that's 150 hours JUST to get to the point of having a chance of top end gear (bot neccessarily BiS either, just top end like old comm gear). That's 3 hours the time to beat a decent AAA RPG whilst doing a reasonable amount of the side content and actively gearing to your level as you go .... GC starts at 70 so it's like leveling all over again but worse.

 

It's a poor design concept no matter how you look at it and it's actively driven people away from the game. Once we get to 300 not so bad because now drops are relevant again.

[Transcendent]

My biggest gripe is that's 150 hours JUST to get to the point of having a chance of top end gear

 

....

 

It's a poor design concept no matter how you look at it and it's actively driven people away from the game. Once we get to 300 not so bad because now drops are relevant again.

 

I can understand the time gating part, BioWare have been all about time gates since the start of this MMO. Sometimes they've got that wrong (launch for example). Sometimes they've got that right (event reputation time gates), and then they've gone completely wrong with command ranks.

 

Yes, absolutely they need to time gate gear acquisition rates, however what they've seem to have forgotten is prior to 5.0 landing they ran an event encouraging players to create alts, lots of alts. So now we're in a situation where players may want to play x y z class, but can't due to the time gate being too arduous to endure for multiple classes.

 

Ideally they would have linked command rank to legacy from the offset, so you could swap alts and not be in a situation where you were not working towards earning gear towards your main or other alts. This is where the time gate they introduced has fallen flat, so I agree, this was poorly designed. All of the patches after 5.0 landed trying to improve GC have simply not worked (imo), they've missed the mark quite substantially, that's wasted development time where BioWare could have produced content.

 

It says something when a bug really highlights how poor CXP acquisition rates have been, as well as how fundamentally flawed the time gate BioWare introduced is.

[Storm-Cutter]

At least it made dailies rewarding again. - Still pretty boring since long-time players have possibly done them dozens, scores or hundreds of times. - About time 'dailies' were a choice of any 5 missions out of a couple of dozen, and each instanced and so a little different each day.

 

cxp is nice if you're still chasing it. Somewhat irrelevant if you're not.

[DieAlteHexe]

At least it made dailies rewarding again. - Still pretty boring since long-time players have possibly done them dozens, scores or hundreds of times. - About time 'dailies' were a choice of any 5 missions out of a couple of dozen, and each instanced and so a little different each day.

 

cxp is nice if you're still chasing it. Somewhat irrelevant if you're not.

 

That sums it up well. I'm still "chasing" but I have wondered what I will do with myself after I've gotten to the goal (even with a couple alts). Eh, at the rate I progress, I'm sure something will change or be added or ...

[supertimtaf]

That sums it up well. I'm still "chasing" but I have wondered what I will do with myself after I've gotten to the goal (even with a couple alts). Eh, at the rate I progress, I'm sure something will change or be added or ...

 

Well, yeah. What's the point of being geared up if there isn't anything to try this gear on ?

I finally began playing my other characters again. Something I didn't do since 5.0 dropped. It's actually a lot of fun to do these quest with a new character, speaking with guildmates, grinding those command rank... I've finally two character that reached the max rank, and I'm working toward the third to add it into my guild's HM team.

For the first time, you don't feel like trapped inside one of your character when doing raids. Before I couldn't take another character than my sin in NiM raids, because that was the only one geared correctly. Now we're back to the point where we can try new groups, adjust our tactics... it's a lot of fun honestly, and this apply to PvP as well. I even took my sorc heal into open world pvp !

We're still waiting for an answer from the dev team though. We only had Keith talk about this in a positive manner, but I'm sure they did understand that those changes were good for the game. My only fear is that they make this easy and appealing grind into one of these farming simulator by reducing either the drop rate or the cxp earned. :/

 

Still, if they're able to fix this definitely into a state where peoples are happy about this then we can maybe hope to see them focus on other new content in the game

[orangenee]

If Keith wants the amounts raised he can have dissenters killed.

 

I will say I've noticed and participated in far more anti-social behaviour since this started. Ninjaing is up. Kill stealing is up. Adapt, improvise and overcome.

 

So it doesn't need to be this high but it does need to be higher than non-bugged. Why? People actually play the old content instead of whining about new content all the time as there's a point to playing it now.

 

I've seen as many as 3 PvP instances on Yavin even.

[DieAlteHexe]

Well, yeah. What's the point of being geared up if there isn't anything to try this gear on ?

I finally began playing my other characters again. Something I didn't do since 5.0 dropped. It's actually a lot of fun to do these quest with a new character, speaking with guildmates, grinding those command rank... I've finally two character that reached the max rank, and I'm working toward the third to add it into my guild's HM team.

For the first time, you don't feel like trapped inside one of your character when doing raids. Before I couldn't take another character than my sin in NiM raids, because that was the only one geared correctly. Now we're back to the point where we can try new groups, adjust our tactics... it's a lot of fun honestly, and this apply to PvP as well. I even took my sorc heal into open world pvp !

We're still waiting for an answer from the dev team though. We only had Keith talk about this in a positive manner, but I'm sure they did understand that those changes were good for the game. My only fear is that they make this easy and appealing grind into one of these farming simulator by reducing either the drop rate or the cxp earned. :/

 

Still, if they're able to fix this definitely into a state where peoples are happy about this then we can maybe hope to see them focus on other new content in the game

 

The point? To achieve, to play the game, to get the stuff, to enjoy the time spent. Those are the reasons I play.

 

Nothing more, nothing less. I've "finished" other MMOs (either I ran out of content or reached my level of incompetence). Whilst it's kind of sad, it happens. I move along to another and if the one I was playing adds more content, back I go.

 

I'm not monogamous. Seriously, it's an MMO. They will either add content and then I'd be all set to go, or they will close up shop (a rarity) and I will have had one hell of a ride getting to that point.

[DieAlteHexe]

If Keith wants the amounts raised he can have dissenters killed.

 

I will say I've noticed and participated in far more anti-social behaviour since this started. Ninjaing is up. Kill stealing is up. Adapt, improvise and overcome.

 

So it doesn't need to be this high but it does need to be higher than non-bugged. Why? People actually play the old content instead of whining about new content all the time as there's a point to playing it now.

 

I've seen as many as 3 PvP instances on Yavin even.

 

Yup, as have I. Had someone following me around in an open zone snagging "crates" whilst I was fighting the mobs. I finally just sat down and waited. This irked them.

 

Even still, it's feeling a bit more alive, fun and that's fine with me.

[CloudCastle]

How long is this event? Monday is the last day, right?

 

I'm having a great time. My main finally reached level 300, something I'd assumed would never happen and had long ago accepted. My alts are actually getting played again! I find myself making plans for them, caring about them again, looking forward to experiencing the game with them again. I hadn't touched them in months until now.

 

GC actually feels...dare I say...fun? I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment, of gathering crates and then setting aside time to open them all. Getting a "bad" crate is no longer the downer that it once was. I just think, "Oh well, on to the next one!" I feel hopeful and positive.

 

The daily areas are full of people! I had a very nice guy offer to group with me yesterday and when I told him, no I had to go afk for something soon, he actually offered to wait the minute or so it would take me. It was a positive experience and the fastest run I'd ever done.

 

The only negative is that I have seen far more griefing these last few days. Stupid stuff too, like people obviously jumping lines or playing "who can click on the glowie faster" even though I was clearly waiting there for it to spawn before they even arrived. People following me to click on the things I'm clicking on, even though there are many glowies freely available nearby. I do think that this is due to the timed nature of this event however, and if these numbers were more permanent, the the pressure would be off.

 

I hope Keith and the team are watching these results carefully. GC can work, but only if it feels run and rewarding, rather than punishing.

 

Heck, with my new full piece set bonus, maybe I'll even think about doing some grouping again.

[Aehwe]

Not even during the launch of this expansion did I play as much as I do now with these dailies. Why? Because otherwise the CXP grind is so unfathomably boring that I stop playing the game for months at a time. At least now I will be able to bump my ranking from 100 to 300+ before you can patch this.