Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[VioletZero]

Yeah and the amount of Credits i spend has dropped to zero for the GM now, BTW

 

 

Way to "tax" the Job creators Bioware, You pretty much are taking out this Class Warfare on us slicers....O crap i need to stop posting on the forum....I'M SOUNDING LIKE A REPUBLICAN

 

It'll normalize soon.

 

This is always what happens. When something hits the money making, people stop spending for a short period of time, then they adapt and start spending again.

[supersonicks]

Except then you're (forcing)encouraging players to purchase credits. =/

 

BW seems to be encouraging that not I.

Edited December 29, 2011 by supersonicks

[Renifizzle]

It would essentially turn into a money generator. Put in money, get more later. No cost of any sort.

 

Not really true. The cost is in

a) time

b) loss of profits that could potentially be made with other crafting skills

 

Although I do see that slicing has a unique profit mechanic vs the other skills.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Renifizzle

[Engleheart]

I love how people don't even consider the possibility that BioWare might have looked at the results for how Slicing was used, decided that they didn't like it and changed it.

 

Nope, it's all about bowing down to the whiners.

 

Whatever you can make up that makes your cause sound more reasonable I guess.

 

If that was so they wouldn't have Nerfed it to the ground like they did, nah i think they just had a knee-jerked reaction on this one issue, since they seem to have show a ability to ignore all the others, Like "hey this will make them happy at least it look like we are doing something." Furthermore, lay out those number as an example as to why this big of a nerf was needed woud have helped them, but no other mmo does it....

 

but wait i thought this wasnt like them other mmos

 

 

Seriously im a Hugh fanboi of SW and Bioware/EA...but even i see this as a bad move.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Engleheart

[VioletZero]

Not really true. The cost is in

a) time

b) loss of profits that could potentially be made with other crafting skills

 

Although I do see that slicing has a unique mechanic vs the other skills.

 

What time is lost? The time it takes you to click a few buttons?

[Zakkana]

I love how people don't even consider the possibility that BioWare might have looked at the results for how Slicing was used, decided that they didn't like it and changed it.

 

Nope, it's all about bowing down to the whiners.

 

Whatever you can make up that makes your cause sound more reasonable I guess.

 

If you spent the effort actually reading instead of trolling, you might actually pick up on something and not make yourself look like a fool repeating the same things over and over again.

 

Here, I'll even repost my TLDR version:

 

1) The slicing nerf was NEEDED. No one really disputes this.

2) The nerf was too much

3) The nerf was done, from all appearances, based on forum noise

4) They focused on this instead of addressing issues like UI problems, Guild/Party Chat breaking, memory leaks and a whole other host of problems that would be more of a concern than slicing itself.

5) The nerf is being judged at a time where the player base and server economies are new.

6) Reports are coming in from higher level players that repair costs are very large thus making the ability to get credits in large amounts and fast a requirement.

7) #3 hints that they will be doing knee-jerk reactions to things as opposed to actually analyzing them.

[Engleheart]

If you spent the effort actually reading instead of trolling, you might actually pick up on something and not make yourself look like a fool repeating the same things over and over again.

 

Here, I'll even repost my TLDR version:

 

1) The slicing nerf was NEEDED. No one really disputes this.

2) The nerf was too much

3) The nerf was done, from all appearances, based on forum noise

4) They focused on this instead of addressing issues like UI problems, Guild/Party Chat breaking, memory leaks and a whole other host of problems that would be more of a concern than slicing itself.

5) The nerf is being judged at a time where the player base and server economies are new.

6) Reports are coming in from higher level players that repair costs are very large thus making the ability to get credits in large amounts and fast a requirement.

7) #3 hints that they will be doing knee-jerk reactions to things as opposed to actually analyzing them.

 

 

THIS<----- THANK YOU, good post Zakkana

[Zeodic]

Nope, it's all about bowing down to the whiners.

 

Which is largely what got it nerfed in the first place ....

[Engleheart]

I think Zakkana pretty much summed up the whole complaint right there, and Bioware, if they look at any post need to look at his above. Seriously i feel like that is the total consensus of everyone who is angry about this Nerf. Its paritally not even about slicing for me at the end of the day, it is the way bioware handled the whole thing, and anyone who says this didnt happen because of whiners, Has not went to look at the days of twitter comments about the topic.

[VioletZero]

If you spent the effort actually reading instead of trolling, you might actually pick up on something and not make yourself look like a fool repeating the same things over and over again.

 

Here, I'll even repost my TLDR version:

 

1) The slicing nerf was NEEDED. No one really disputes this.

2) The nerf was too much

3) The nerf was done, from all appearances, based on forum noise

4) They focused on this instead of addressing issues like UI problems, Guild/Party Chat breaking, memory leaks and a whole other host of problems that would be more of a concern than slicing itself.

5) The nerf is being judged at a time where the player base and server economies are new.

6) Reports are coming in from higher level players that repair costs are very large thus making the ability to get credits in large amounts and fast a requirement.

7) #3 hints that they will be doing knee-jerk reactions to things as opposed to actually analyzing them.

 

1) Yes.

 

2) The more I think about it, the more the nerf sounds justified.

 

3) You're certain of this? Do you have solid proof?

 

4) They have a loooong list of issues to get to and it's not going to get done overnight. It's best to focus on issues that could cause the most damage, like controlling hyperinflation.

 

5) That's really only going to apply to issues that weren't glaringly obvious.

 

6) One of the issues I had with other games is that repairs were just a nuisance. Just something you had to do every now and then. Turning it into a core part of the game with high repair costs and making it more of a challenge to afford is a good idea. It gives death more meaning. And that is far from a bad thing.

 

7) Again, proof required.

[Zeodic]

1) Yes.

 

2) The more I think about it, the more the nerf sounds justified.

 

3) You're certain of this? Do you have solid proof?

 

4) They have a loooong list of issues to get to and it's not going to get done overnight. It's best to focus on issues that could cause the most damage, like controlling hyperinflation.

 

5) That's really only going to apply to issues that weren't glaringly obvious.

 

6) One of the issues I had with other games is that repairs were just a nuisance. Just something you had to do every now and then. Turning it into a core part of the game with high repair costs and making it more of a challenge to afford is a good idea. It gives death more meaning. And that is far from a bad thing.

 

7) Again, proof required.

 

 

I just want to point out that after this response you should really change your signature. This was possibly the least thought out response I have seen you make thus far.

 

However I would like to comment on your #6 Repairs at high levels. Death in a video game has little to no meaning, charging you for repairs is just a money sink which forces you to spend hours farming to foot the bill. Time which could be spent having fun or pvping etc.

[VioletZero]

I just want to point out that after this response you should really change your signature. This was possibly the least thought out response I have seen you make thus far.

 

However I would like to comment on your #6 Repairs at high levels. Death in a video game has little to no meaning, charging you for repairs is just a money sink which forces you to spend hours farming to foot the bill. Time which could be spent having fun or pvping etc.

 

Only if you let yourself die...

 

 

Seriously though, a game shouldn't be all fun. There needs to be contrast so that the fun moments seem that much more fun.

[Engleheart]

1) Yes.

 

2) The more I think about it, the more the nerf sounds justified.

 

3) You're certain of this? Do you have solid proof?

 

4) They have a loooong list of issues to get to and it's not going to get done overnight. It's best to focus on issues that could cause the most damage, like controlling hyperinflation.

 

5) That's really only going to apply to issues that weren't glaringly obvious.

 

6) One of the issues I had with other games is that repairs were just a nuisance. Just something you had to do every now and then. Turning it into a core part of the game with high repair costs and making it more of a challenge to afford is a good idea. It gives death more meaning. And that is far from a bad thing.

 

7) Again, proof required.

 

 

Ok, seriously, hyperinflation? You seem to think that when people post things on the forum they are looking at cost of living expenses and complex algorithm to compute pricing on items based on the cost to manufacture them/to determine prices. Nobody, much unlike the real world has any real system to pricing thing when they sell them, and if they do, its something to the effect of;

 

"holy crap the vendor items are outrageously priced, so this really epic item which has totally better stats has to be more costly then those"

 

Which they are, btw.

 

So to assume just because i have a lot of credits doesn't mean joe-blow is going to know that and price accordingly, like say a retailer who has people who work for them you pour of tons of date to determine the cost of a gallon of milk in a certain area; granted alot of this is based of transportation, but yet again, there is no transportation cost, or at least a viable mean of calculating such a thing in an mmo.

 

In closing, 1 credit in a game is one credit. not 1/2 of a credit, or a 1/3, but one credit. in a sense inflation is kind of a myth in mmo's sure the prices on A new chest item might have rose, but so havent the stats, i.e. you pay more for a better product, not the smae product, like what happen with inflation. Does anybody have elementary clue as to how economics work?

Edited December 29, 2011 by Engleheart

[Zakkana]

2) The more I think about it, the more the nerf sounds justified.

 

Well, the more I am actually doing it, the nerf amount was not justified.

 

3) You're certain of this? Do you have solid proof?

 

Note the use of the phrase "from all appearances". No real word has been spoken on this issue from BW. Hence all we have is speculation which apparently was a LOT of complaining about slicing. Probably from people mad that they did not pick it up in the first place.

 

4) They have a loooong list of issues to get to and it's not going to get done overnight. It's best to focus on issues that could cause the most damage, like controlling hyperinflation.

 

When I see patterns selling from crafting trainers at almost 5k (a few over 9k), class skills at 32k, riding skills at 210k, repairs being what we are being told by the higher levels, the scarcity of some crafting mats, etc. they're setting things up for hyper-inflated prices due to scarcity.

 

5) That's really only going to apply to issues that weren't glaringly obvious.

 

You have not proven yet that slicing in and of itself was a glaringly obvious problem requiring a nerf of this magnitude. Please note, I qualified that with the statement "of this magnitude" when you reply.

 

6) One of the issues I had with other games is that repairs were just a nuisance. Just something you had to do every now and then. Turning it into a core part of the game with high repair costs and making it more of a challenge to afford is a good idea. It gives death more meaning. And that is far from a bad thing.

 

So essentially having functional armor is a challenge now? Sorry to burst your bubble, but some people actually like being able to play. Not to mention that fact that no workable armor means no farming mats or doing dailies and such. This means a person essentially could grind all progress to a halt. Think they're going to stick around?

 

7) Again, proof required.

 

See my answer to #3

[VioletZero]

Ok, seriously, hyperinflation? You seem to think that when people post things on the forum they are looking at cost of living expenses and complex algorithm to compute pricing on items based on the cost to manufacture them/to determine prices. Nobody, much unlike the real world has any real system to pricing thing when they sell them, and if they do, its something to the effect of;

 

"holy crap the vendor items are outrageously priced, so this really epic item which has totally better stats has to be more costly then those"

 

Which they are, btw.

 

So to assume just because i have a lot of credits doesn't mean joe-blow is going to know that and price accordingly, like say a retailer who has people who work for them you pour of tons of date to determine the cost of a gallon of milk in a certain area; granted alot of this is based of transportation, but yet again, there is no transportation cost, or at least a viable mean of calculating such a thing in an mmo.

 

In closing, 1 credit in a game is one credit. not 1/2 of a credit, or a 1/3, but one credit. in a sense inflation is kind of a myth in mmo's sure the prices on A new chest item might have rose, but so havent the stats, i.e. you pay more for a better product, not the smae product, like what happen with inflation. Does anybody have elementary clue as to how economics work?

 

I've actually seen MMOs ruined by hyper-inflation before. And with the system in place, that was where it was headed.

[Formulka]

...

so you are saying in your own nice patronising way that having a broken mission skill is ok // as long as it seems like the economy is saved

i guess you havent spent all your crew time on good for nothing skill - slicers can rot in the corner now that they had their money week, right?

hint: not every slicer is packing huge money and there are even new post 1.01 slicers with awesome ability to either lose money or get worthless augments

// and yeah they can still craft - but without extra money for special materials they will just lose even more money

Edited December 29, 2011 by Formulka

[VioletZero]

so you are saying in your own nice patronising way that having a broken mission skill is ok // as long as it seems like the economy is saved

i guess you havent spent all your crew time on good for nothing skill - slicers can rot in the corner now that they had their money week, right?

hint: not every slicer is packing huge money and there are even new post 1.01 slicers with awesome ability to either lose money or get worthless augments

// and yeah they can still craft - but without extra money for special materials they will just lose even more money

 

Of course I spent my time on a completely worthless crew skill. I tried Armormech.

 

But I am mature enough to realize that "fixing" Armormech would actually be a huge mistake and actually discourage the group content.

[Engleheart]

Of course I spent my time on a completely worthless crew skill. I tried Armormech.

 

But I am mature enough to realize that "fixing" Armormech would actually be a huge mistake and actually discourage the group content.

 

you have to be a bioware sleeper.

[Formulka]

Of course I spent my time on a completely worthless crew skill. I tried Armormech.

 

But I am mature enough to realize that "fixing" Armormech would actually be a huge mistake and actually discourage the group content.

 

which begs a question why even have skills like that in game - you have to spent quite a lot of time to figure out the skill is worthless, why not scrap the whole idea while we are at it as even now there are more favorable companion skills with potential to ruin the economy

 

and by economy - i guess from your post - you mean mission loot on GTN

[lynspottery]

This is great post, explaining in more professional way what Im, in my amateur knowledge of economics, expecting to happen.

 

I followed this link to a very well thought out and written overview of the economy issue relating to the slicing nerf and the exorbitant costs associated w/training. As I progress upwards on my character, I am paying out more of the credits I earn each play session for training and repairs. I barely make enough credits to afford anything, let alone, build up my bank or pick up gear and mods as I need them.

 

I truly think the SWTOR economy is somewhat out of whack and can use a great deal of TLC. It is not very even in my opinion. I do believe it can be brought into line to make a very robust economy if more balance was used.

 

I want to craft but cannot afford to craft in this game and make the necessary profit in order to keep up my training and gear as it is. So I am harvesting anything I can get and most often selling it to a vender because I am not getting much of a return putting it on the GTN.

 

I agree that costs for training and crafting/missions are not viable as they are currently setup. If the costs of these things could be brought down to a reasonable level, I think I might be able to start crafting. However, until that happens, I won't.

[Jessie-Lacey]

The last thread exceeded the limit. I think they got the message on this one hahaha.... I feel like there was a ninja buff. At first I was doing really bad on slicing. Now it's been mediocre but the blue boxes usually make it worth while as I'm questing anyways. It would be a pain just farming it though.

[ryancwn]

The last thread exceeded the limit. I think they got the message on this one hahaha.... I feel like there was a ninja buff. At first I was doing really bad on slicing. Now it's been mediocre but the blue boxes usually make it worth while as I'm questing anyways. It would be a pain just farming it though.

 

Blue box will always net you profit but you need to crit the mission to get a blue box. Rich / bountidful mission only gives you greenbox if not crit.

 

Simply put, you are lucky that you got a blue box. I only got about 20 blue box while lv my slicing to 400

Edited December 29, 2011 by ryancwn

[Engleheart]

This post was edited after learning that the mods are not allow to post replies on the forum do to the higher up's unwillingness to let them, Sorry for all the grief mods. Edited December 29, 2011 by Engleheart

[Belkiratwo]

I believe that this thread was continued as amongst the general rable there is some really good feedback.

 

I've read this thread from start to finish, ever single comment and while 95% of them are the usual forum posts of complaints with no pathway to resolution there is still some worthwhile information.

 

The general consensus from the more intelligible posts seem to repeat the same points:

 

1. Economically Slicing was viable in it's previous state however it should have been adjusted in some way to counter the early level advantage

2. BW has made a change to Slicing that doesn't really follow rational or logical thought processes that the general community can agree on; whether the information BW is privy too actually supports this change we'll never know

3. Two weeks into a game is too soon to make such a drastic decision.

 

 

I think it is important to continue this discussion but it is also important to continue to provide constructive feedback instead of destructive criticism.

 

If BW had allowed the time for server populations to mature it may have been different however all evidence points to the fact that this was a PR move to retain subscriptions after 30 day free pass which is really a shame.

 

I can understand the decision from a marketing standpoint but from a gamer and economist standpoint the nerf makes absolutely zero sense.

 

I would like to hear some BW feedback on the reasoning behind the change.

[Engleheart]

This post was edited after learning that the mods are not allow to post replies on the forum do to the higher up's unwillingness to let them, Sorry for all the grief mods.

 

^ this.