Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

[menofhorror]

It's still better for them to try balancing then just leaving the classes as it is.

 

They can try and give it their best. That's all they can do.

 

Edit: I will have to bring one additional point to the "242 boundary for master fps". I do have to say that some fps are harder in master mode than others. We had no problem doing hammer station in 230 but lost island we didn't manage.

Edited July 25, 2017 by menofhorror

[Thruine]

Actually I can call them out for a lack of vision, which they had prior to Knights of the Fallen Empire, and then say when they finally did have a vision it was the wrong direction.

 

Life isn't binary comprised of ones and zeros. Something is not always better than nothing when the something is worse than the nothing you have. To put it another way, if you have a company that is just treading water in terms of profitability, just because they get new leadership in a new change of vision doesn't automatically mean their profits will soar. The change of vision could equally sink them and cause them to go bankrupt because it was the wrong vision for the wrong product.

 

That is essentially what happened with this game. Only thing I can really equate it to is amd's bulldozer, which flock spectacularly inset AMD back a decade or more with bad vision and bad leadership. It wasn't until Lisa Su was put in charge that AMD began to right the ship and now is finally seeing a competitive product again with ryzen.

 

I do not know if Keith is the right person with the right vision for this game. I appreciate his attempts at communication however there is some pushback in terms of actually accepting the advice the players that are left here have given as well as the players who have temporarily subbed on 60 day passes to check out the new Direction.

 

That's why I said Keith needs to be forthright with whatever Vision he has for the game. That way if there is a problem the players can put their two cents in and if Keith is wise he will take that input to Heart.

 

At this point the increased communication is good but we need to start seeing our input put into action. We've been told from the beginning with regards to this game that choices matter. That comes with the creative direction of the game too. Choices do matter and if the developers choose to ignore the players who are trying to help them build a game more to the players taste which only makes sense since the players are the ones who are buying the game, then the developers themselves are making the choice to build a game that really only Services the ones making the game and not the ones playing it and this game will die a slow death as it already is.

 

Many of us are passionate about this game and don't want to see such a death for it, but we can only do so much and suggest so much before the feeling of being ignored drives us off as well.

 

But you can't stop it. You can't even cause it. None of us can. We have one method of attack. A credit card. All these words all over these forums are meaningless in deciding the direction of the game and what should or shouldn't be done to save it, doom it. We have power together and look at us. We're not in the least. Every decision from this point on that they make will have made a division in us. We all come looking for one thing and maybe we're lucky and get it. Maybe we get it next time. But we are never and will never be happy in unison. Even our anger isn't about the same things. Some popular contenders but not all the same. Some can't stand how they communicate even. Like, who cares if they talk to us like we're not having a conversation over a computer while its one's job and the other probably should be doing theirs. That doesn't even seem anywhere near close to normal now that I said it.

 

I get that people don't like stuff but I am so tired of them sounding like that's true for everyone and every thing. I don't play WoW. You didn't like KotET. So what. Its 2017 and none of that is relevant. We have their plans and even mentioning that they are trying something new is having people go absolutely freaking crazy. I mean, I honestly would have just shut down on the players again (but then they are already accused of that too) and just do what I want. We're going to have the same rage happening either way. Have a good day at the office and peace out folks.

 

But the guy wants to try. And its just on and on. The only fear I have is making decisions based on all this. Like was done with KotFE. There are lots of things I'd wish they'd do. Lots of things I wish they would fix for me but I'd pay it all as long as they don't do some of this stuff. Or worse, don't not do something like KotET because I really enjoyed it. I have played games where we're offered something huge only to lose it to a NPC. I think it was EQ2 and I had some silly city quest to help the queen with a suitor (yeah, i know but anyways) and first thought I had wouldn't it be cool if my character could become the consort of the queen. Here I have an Alliance and it mucks up people idea of Star Wars and to me that's good because it is new and different I've never seen in a MMORPG. You always start as a nobody and stay one in them. I'm interested in where they take it. But if they listen to all this "we want more of the same we find everywhere we want more" then that will be gone.

 

Nothing ensures you never take chances and find new heights like listening to the masses does. They all want everything the same as its always been and mad when its like everything else. Can't you guys just go reread a comic or something for that?

[Camil_K]

242? really? i actually do just fine in team of augmented 230, no wipes.... now i should be forced to grind even more just to do dailies for MM flashpoints...

rather make it not put you in the toughest flashpoints if you dont have gear for it, as not every single one actually requires that good gear

 

you think you did

[JediJoy]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll take up a number of the points you raised with the team, including the 242 for Master Mode on Umbara. You also asked about Legacy Currencies, additional class balancing, Strongholds, and more, so I'll update the Roadmap to include many of those items, along with any additional insight, where possible.

 

There's a lot of criticism in this thread, a lot of good ideas, some confusion, a bunch of frustration. and a ton of passion about SWTOR. I've also read that we don't play the game, have no understanding of MMOs, and most of decisions are the opposite of smart. I get it and I think most of you know realize we're not going to please everyone, and no matter how many changes we make, someone is going to be unhappy and call us out.

 

I know we'll continue to improve the game, we'll continue to refine every area, we'll add new content regularly for a wide variety of different play styles - some will get strongholds, some will get PvP, GSF, Operation Bosses, New Flashpoints, Story, and more. I also know we'll make mistakes along the way, and you'll be able to help us course correct, yet I still want the Dev Team to take chances, to push themselves and strive to be better and provide a lot of fun for all of us who play this game.

 

I've also read some of you are tossing in the towel and are leaving us. That obviously saddens me as the game is better when everyone works together. I have valued your input, have tried to understand your frustration while working with the team to get your concerns addressed. Not everything is as it seems, but I respect your decision and look to earn your business again in the near future.

 

Hope everyone is taking full advantage of the bonus CXP week. Have a great weekend.

 

Keith---

 

Thank you, Keith for keeping us updated. This is one thing that has been lacking in the past that we can already see changing, albeit more slowly than some expect or want. As to all relationships, even between developers and clients, communication is always key. I see that you are working hard on correcting this major flaw that has been plaguing SWTOR for many expansions.

 

It is good to hear that you see our frustration and are listening to our ideals and advice. Whether we actually see some of these changes in future game play, only time can tell. Over the course of my time being apart of the SWTOR community, I have noticed that we are split between the hardcore PvP'ers, the hardcore Raiders and the hardcore Casual players. You are never going to make all of us happy all of the time. Period. But with active and frequent communication, you can help calm the hostility and the angry mob mentality.

 

The one thing that we can all agree on, is that we are all passionate about SWTOR. Most of us have been subbing since day one, others have left for other games and have found their way back and others have just started playing for the first time. We love Star Wars, have watched the movies and TV shows and read all of the books. We love this game; it appeals to all gamer styles. We want to see it succeed!

 

My advice to everyone reading this thread: Keith just took charge; give him some time. He is a SWTOR gamer just like us. He is rallying the troops and fighting for more funding to really bring SWTOR to its full potential. Unfortunately, it will take some time to really start seeing the changes we all hope for. Trust me, I feel your pain. I love PvP, Raids and also casual play style; I am just as frustrated with all of the lack of communication, bugs and nerfs to classes etc. I have played many MMO's and none of them have the story content, end game, toon customization and pvp as SWTOR (some of them have better in one category but none of them have ALL).

 

After the last Conquest fiasco, I was at my breaking point. I had my mouse hovering over the "unsubscribe" button. I had to really break down what I truly love about this game and why I have stuck with it for this long. There are so many great things about SWTOR compared to other MMO's. We have a great community (despite those few toxic people in gen and pvp chat). We have the potential to be involved in a small community and be social or we can solo play. We can even RP to our hearts content (if thats what youre into; I wont judge you if you are).

 

We have voiced our complaints, now all we can do is wait.

 

Keith, I wish you the best. I believe that you will do whatever it takes to "turn the tides" and bring SWTOR to its full potential.

[Samoth_Nomad]

I don't disagree that Carnage's burst attacks can do more damage than Fury's burst, but they can also do less than Fury's burst by a significant margin.

 

Spec type is not determed by who can do the most damage with it. Were that the case than Anni is not a sustained DOT spec because Lethality does more DPS than it can.

 

You are right that in such an example that Fury's burst interupted would spread out that burst, but, at least it would still be doing burst level damage and that is not the case for Carnage. If carnage's burst get's interupted and the attacks than fall outside of the ferocity window, the damage of those attacks are going to be significantly lower than Fury's burst even were it interupted would be. Carnage might do a 22k Devistating Blast inside the Ferocity window, but were he delayed even half of a second, that 22k might now hit 14k, for less than a second's difference. I would call that a big difference.

 

A true Burst spec is on demand high damage attacks. Carnage does not have on demand burst. Carnage has very conditional burst.

 

So say interuptions to Carnage's burst do not happen in PVE is not true. It certainly happens much more in PVP, that's for certain, but it is not at all rare for a Carnage's burst to be interupted or delayed in Operations. Bosses stun, knock back, slow, mechanics force them out of attack range, procs fall off, bosses jump out of range [sparky, Pearl, Ruegar], so there are plenty of instances where that burst is going to be lost and once it's lost thats it, you now have to wait 10+ seconds to get another shot at it.

 

This is where we see why Carnage has been, and should remain, a psudo-burst spec. Because that's exactly what it is. To do otherwise, would be to change the very nature of the spec.

 

What will happen is, they will nerf the sustained damage, while the spec will still have it's unreliable burst, up til now, if something goes wrong and you lose the chance to get the burst out and now you can't so any burst until the window comes back around, the decent sustained damage you could still do helped to compensate somehwhat for the lost burst. If you take that decent sustained damage away, those instances when you will lose part or all of your burst, will leave the spec in a very bad way.

 

With Fury, if nothing else, you can count of the burst damage. It's front loaded and has no conditions to it. That a delay will not effect the amount of damage the burst attacks will do, that isn't nothing. 1 second delay for Carnage, and that damage is halfed even if they get some of the burst out.

 

If Fury gets buffed [and it should] and Carnage get's nerfed, what will happen than is, Fury will have better damage, reliable burst, added to it's great mobility that it enjoys and the CC immunites it has will make it not only better than Carnage, it will make carnage obsolete.

 

Why worry about windows when Fury doesn't have time constraints? Why have worser burst damage from Carnage, when Fury's DPS is better anyway?

 

Fury would have better burst.

Burst that can't be shut down.

Unconditional burst with no time limits to it.

Burst damage that can be counted on.

Better mobility and better able to stay on target, which is already is.

And a much easier to play because it really doesn't have a rotation it needs to stick too.

And most of all, it will not have to worry about resourses because it's Beserk gives them resources immediately. Carnage has an extremely tight resource situation since they added the extra attack in 5.0 [Gore], one mistake, and you've screwed up your own burst window, on slow, and you wont have the time to build the resources you need for the window.

Fury will never run into a situation where it will not have the resources it needs for all it's burst, because beserk will give it the resources without having to waste GCDS to build burst like carnage must do.

 

Fury's signature attack is called Raging Burst.

Fury and Jugg's Rage spec, are the same exact spec. And Rage is a burst spec. So how can you define Rage as a burst Spec and Fury, which is the same exact spec, a psudo-burst spec? They both use Raging Burst.

How can the same exact spec, be defined as one spec type in one instance, and another in the other?

 

If they want to nerf Carnage and buff Fury, fine, do it, but don't change the nature of the spec. Because after 6 years playing the spec, and I am sure there are many others who would probably feel the same way, I'm not intrested in it becomes something other than it has been. This is the play style people who have been playing it for years and years have come to enjoy and love.

 

If Carnage suddenly has it's sustained lower, and is defined a full blown burst spec, with unreliable burst that they will not be able to get out all of the time and will be lost [and this will be more previlnent in PVP but will also undoubtedly happen in PVE as well] you are leaving the spec in a very tenious position and not only changing the nature of the play style, but also making it a kind of a pointless spec.

 

Had I and other people wanted to play a full blown Burst Spec, we would have played Fury, because, Fury has always been a burst spec.

 

Raising Fury to be more competitive shouldn't have to come at the expense of Carnage. It isn't necessary. The specs have their own flavor already established. I'm sure I'm not the only one who recalls Fury being a strong AOE spec. Work from there. Raise it's DPS in it's own area of play. Burst that hurts multple people at once. Carnage's burst is ST. Fury's burst can be strong as well, without having to supercede Carnage with stronger DPS and more reliable burst than Carnage is capable of.

 

The following is a quote from Vulkk's Fury Spec guide for 5.0

 

"It provides great Burst damage as well as strong Single Target and AoE sustained Damage Dealing. Offers good survivability and free mobility. "

 

http://vulkk.com/2017/02/21/sith-marauder-fury-discipline-swtor-5-0-guide/

 

The following is an excerpt from Hayete's Carnage spec Guide for 5.0

 

"Carnage Marauders are the perfect combination of powerful burst and respectable sustained damage...."

 

"Carnage Marauders are the fastest played spec in the game with zero damage over time [DoT] abilities that demand of the player to be quick and effecient, plays to the lore of Ataru form. Any delay of attacks or time off target will cause the player to lose considerable DPS over time. For these reasons Mastery of the spec and the content that is to be played is an absolute must".

 

Spec difficulty is listed as 8/10

 

https://www.hayete.net/carnage-guide

 

In Vulkk's Fury Guide he speaks to what the spec offers over other spec choices,

 

"Why Fury Over Other Specs

 

Fury excels in Burst damage (both AoE and Single Target) dealing and offers good survivability with its crowd control immunity buffs. It is not limiting the mobility of the user, allows for both single and AoE damage. I seriously urge any and all who have played it before to give it one more try. It’s a guarantee that you will like it and some may even fall in love with it. The spec is very much on par with the rest of the disciplines, performs nicely in suitable boss encounters and offers decent challenge in mastering it.

 

Its CC immunity and great mobility are huge factors for the poor MDPS that’s always where things are hottest in the heart of the battle."

 

It's CC immunities, it's extra leap, it's multiple smashes, it's added CC capabilities in addition to it's passive anti cc-immunities, giving it 6 seconds of CC immunity out of every 30, it's passive bonus' to defense chance, it's ability to generate free rage for attack use while not needing to attack to build rage [resources] at all, a passive 5% damage buff to all damage for 6 seconds following the use of either smash or Raging Burst [with only 8 seconds passing before it can reapply that damage buff again], another damage buff to all aoe attack damage for 45 seconds, are some of it's notable points.

 

It has it's own unique nitche and in PVP is an undeniably strong performer.

 

Buff it's damage, keep the specs as they are in terms of how they perform and should be classified according to how they perform.

 

No one has to suffer for the improvement of another.

 

Style matters, the play style we grow accustomed to is not easily forgotten.

 

We don't yet know what is going to be done to the specs, but we have ideas.

 

I can only speak for myself, but if Carnage has the nature of it's style of play altered, if it is forced into a pure burst spec style of play, with weak sustained and burst it cannot count on, if it becomes obsolete and nothing but a weaker less reliable spec compared to Fury, and thus, less disirable, after 6 years playing the spec I've come to love, I'm not intrested in learning a new way to play it..

 

They can classify any spec in any way they like. They can call Anni a Burst spec if they wanted to, that wouldn't make it a burst spec.

 

I have seen Fury users and Carnage users agreeing on that these two specs have been classified incorrectly. Carnage is in practice a psudo-burst spec, and Fury is in practice a burst spec. You can buff numbers without changing the style of play. And for me, thats what I am most worried about, that it won't play as Carnage has played and should play.

 

That's my view on it, that's how I feel, other's may take a different view and they are entitled to that of course. But If I can't play Carnage how I have come to in style, feel and application, as a psudo-burst spec, I'd rather not play at all. It's a deal breaker for me personally.

 

Fury deserves a buff, they can make it's burst stronger than Carnage is they like, I won't complain. Let's just keep the specs what they really are in practice. I'd like to see three viable, distinct, unique specs for Marauder, not 2 and 1 that's just worse than another at the same thing. I'd like to see everyone happy.

 

Just a perfect post. As a player of Combat spec since launch, I feel 100% the same way. Please devs, for the love of Combat/Carnage, please don't make our spec obsolete!!

[realleaftea]

I am guilty of whining two days ago and now I feel even worse about it. People are literally dehumanizing the entire team who put this game together. Mr. K is not a slave to the community or anyone else! These are people working to provide an entertainment service! They don't deserve this maniacal hatred. Yes there is much valid criticism to be made here, however it's being swamped by the baying of a pack of wild dogs.

You can't vote for freedom of speech or invite others to speak freely, if you expect only pleasing responses. Most games are emotional and so are the responses. It's the same no matter if it's about a real-life sports match or a digitial second life.

 

And the truth is that Keith & co. don't handle it well. To add a single QoL improvement to a roadmap is an invitation for mean responses about missing bug fixes. And to make "others slow you down" an official argument isn't what I would call elaborate communication skills. It's a indirect insult against any player who wanted to try something new and clicked on the master mode group finder option. Not only that - it's also a lie. What BioWare does is limit the access to the only new content they have in order to increase subsciption time.

 

So it's simply a part of the business model. No need to lie.

 

If they would have stated that they want to reward all those players who have spent countless hours leveling up command ranks, it would have been much better, right? And if they would have stated that they chose a gear restriction over a command rank restriction in order to make it more alt-friendly as well as supporting crafting professions (246'er left side gear), it would have been something completely different.

 

Furthermore, I would have skipped the last sentence about "if this restriction proves to be profitable, we gonna extend it". What was the goal Keith was hoping to achieve? It will only be relevant, should this strategy be successful. So they would have had enough time to announce something like that in the future.

 

In regard of the class balance, their social skills weren't that great either. F.e. they forgot to name the overall HPS nerf they had in mind for Sorcerers heals, referring to their internal metrics or something like that. They also couldn't forsee that mercenaries would be pissed if BioWare don't even mention if, when or how the defensive utilities will be addressed. And they kept players in the dark about Operatives, Juggernauts and Marauders. Not a single comment in any of these threads.

 

And last but not least, Keith didn't manage to give this roadmap a positive spin or most importantly a positive ending. The last section was a retroperspective view as well as an apology why they don't come up with more content. Instead, it should have been a more constructive, positive view into the future.

Edited July 26, 2017 by realleaftea

[AlrikFassbauer]

So it's simply a part of the business model. No need to lie.

 

Then ask those who put this business model into place. Ask them with which reasons they did it.

 

To please the shareholders ? Who are the shareholders, actually ? Are the same who put this business model into place among those with the biggest amount of shares ?

Edited July 25, 2017 by AlrikFassbauer

[chrispyone]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll take up a number of the points you raised with the team, including the 242 for Master Mode on Umbara. You also asked about Legacy Currencies, additional class balancing, Strongholds, and more, so I'll update the Roadmap to include many of those items, along with any additional insight, where possible.

 

There's a lot of criticism in this thread, a lot of good ideas, some confusion, a bunch of frustration. and a ton of passion about SWTOR. I've also read that we don't play the game, have no understanding of MMOs, and most of decisions are the opposite of smart. I get it and I think most of you know realize we're not going to please everyone, and no matter how many changes we make, someone is going to be unhappy and call us out.

 

I know we'll continue to improve the game, we'll continue to refine every area, we'll add new content regularly for a wide variety of different play styles - some will get strongholds, some will get PvP, GSF, Operation Bosses, New Flashpoints, Story, and more. I also know we'll make mistakes along the way, and you'll be able to help us course correct, yet I still want the Dev Team to take chances, to push themselves and strive to be better and provide a lot of fun for all of us who play this game.

 

Keith---

 

I LOVE the story and the flashpoint additions!

 

Strongholds . meh

Sigh.... Here's another new Dollhouse (stronghold) to garner more money from our in-game cash machine!!!

-- maybe you will forget about the woefully broken class balances ---

 

Please for the love of Star Wars... PLEASE fix the abysmal balance of PVE/ PVP Sorc DPS

[Psychopyro]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll take up a number of the points you raised with the team, including the 242 for Master Mode on Umbara. You also asked about Legacy Currencies, additional class balancing, Strongholds, and more, so I'll update the Roadmap to include many of those items, along with any additional insight, where possible.

It's good that your taking this stuff back, but I'm a creature of blunt honesty so I'll just get to it.... We don't have a lot of faith that it will matter. We give feedback and it gets ignored. I say ignored because we don't even get a response as to why you, as the developers, think it is a bad idea. There is no cross communication. I understand it would require a lot, and I have sent ideas in PMs (not to you specifically) to help with that.

 

There's a lot of criticism in this thread, a lot of good ideas, some confusion, a bunch of frustration. and a ton of passion about SWTOR. I've also read that we don't play the game, have no understanding of MMOs, and most of decisions are the opposite of smart. I get it and I think most of you know realize we're not going to please everyone, and no matter how many changes we make, someone is going to be unhappy and call us out.

I'll apologize... Like I said, I am a creature of blunt truth. I don't really like to beat around the bush. To that end, I have seen what kind of damage can be done by balancing around the best or the worst players. The 242 MM Flashpoint thing is balancing around the worst players, and it's a bad idea. A lot of the class balance issues are balanced around the best players. One side suffers on each of these spectrum.

 

I don't want to get into specific personal experiences on the forums, but I have been one of those players balanced around in other games. It sucks because people know who the best players of some classes are and they will start being blamed. I'd be more than happy to discuss with you the specifics, but I left one said other game because of it.

 

I know we'll continue to improve the game, we'll continue to refine every area, we'll add new content regularly for a wide variety of different play styles - some will get strongholds, some will get PvP, GSF, Operation Bosses, New Flashpoints, Story, and more. I also know we'll make mistakes along the way, and you'll be able to help us course correct, yet I still want the Dev Team to take chances, to push themselves and strive to be better and provide a lot of fun for all of us who play this game.

 

Again, just being blunt... Knowing you made a mistake is one thing... Saying you made a mistake is another. Fixing that mistake is a whole different beast all together. Again this is a touchy subject for not just me, but a lot of "Star Wars Players". I'm sure someone will latch on this particular comment and run with it sadly. It's just a matter of communication and admission. It goes a long way.

 

I've also read some of you are tossing in the towel and are leaving us. That obviously saddens me as the game is better when everyone works together. I have valued your input, have tried to understand your frustration while working with the team to get your concerns addressed. Not everything is as it seems, but I respect your decision and look to earn your business again in the near future.

 

Hope everyone is taking full advantage of the bonus CXP week. Have a great weekend.

 

Keith---

I'll be honest... I left after several changes. I keep coming back, but it gets harder each time because it always seems like it's one step forward and two steps back. Pretty soon even people like me that love(d) the game will just stop... We feel like we are ignored. You address concerns, get us back, and then go right back to the same broken cycle... Again, I have ideas I'd discuss with you to help, but I'm not going to air it out publicly.

[realleaftea]

Then ask those who put this business model into place. Ask them with which reasons they did it.

 

To please the shareholders ? Who are the shareholders, actually ? Are the same who put this business model into place among those with the biggest amount of shares ?

Do you really want to argue with me about fairness in a capitalistic world?

 

Companies owned by a single person or a fix group of persons aren't necessarily less profit-oriented. And whether a game focuses more on singleplayer or more on a group-oriented, repetitive gameplay isn't solely about profit either.

 

My statement was more about the fact that add-ons are typically designed for players who played the game for quite some time and can't get enough of it. F.e. these add-ons typically start after the completion of the main story, require a certain class level or at least a better understanding of the game mechanics (if they have a higher difficulty level f.e.).

 

SWTOR flashpoints are in a strange state however. The veteran mode - once limited to a minimum level to support an ongoing storyline and to allow for an increasing difficulty level / complexity - are now all available early on. The master mode variant - once designed as an end-game content for characters at their maximum level - weren't adjusted to the ever evolving situation. Even worse, the game lost it's focus on character levels.

 

In order to add a new flashpoint, BioWare has to fix the system somehow. Just like Tyth is designed for groups wearing BIS gear, the new flashpoint might be designed for those who are equipped with a mediocre almost-BIS gear or for those who prefer 4-man teamplay over 8-man operations. In other words, better suited for 'casual' players. And it's not a bad thing that BioWare implements a new flashpoint or that they want to make it enjoyable for players who have more than a few hours of game experience.

 

So the question is more about whether a hard restriction is such a good idea. There are plenty of other options. They could have used the command rank instead of a avg. gear level, they could have limited the access to those who have finished other master mode flashpoints already, or the KOTET storyline, etc.

 

And at least for me, it's a question why BioWare doesn't come up with a clear design concept of how to handle flashpoints in general.

 

F.e. I would have preferred, if they would have kept the minimum level requirement and would have only removed the maximum level. In addition, I would have preferred if the character level would have been synced downwards and if BioWare would finally fix the incomplete level sync due to weapon mods, etc. This would have been an improvement for existing flashpoints as well. And I would prefer, if they would make the new flashpoint available for all lvl 70 characters independant of their gear rating or command rank...

 

I simply don't believe that strict rules, harsh restrictions and penalties lead to a good & healthy system.

Edited July 26, 2017 by realleaftea

[Eshvara]

When will we be able to see something of patch 5.4? Like some screenshots or anything really. Just a little visual tease of what's to come? Edited July 25, 2017 by Eshvara

[Sabachthanus]

The communication is appreciated, Keith. I think some people forget how much worse communication was under the, ahem, previous regime.

 

My one comment would be that 242 is much, much too high of a gear requirement for any Master Mode flashpoint. If you know what you are doing, you can do MM LI with the blue starter 65 gear. I'd put a requirement (if you still really want a requirement) at around 200 or 208.

 

I think it would be much more useful to actually restrict group finder roles to discipline instead of class. I've never had a problem with heals or DPS or tanking not being good enough in a MM. Instead, I've had multiple instances of DPS queuing as healers or tanks because they don't understand that roles matter in MM, and there are no kolto tanks to carry you if no-one is a heals. Based on 4 v. 4 Arenas, your programmers seem to have some method of detecting whether a person actually is a heals (probably based on discipline). Locking roles to their appropriate discipline would probably be better at weeding out the worst players than gear reqs would be.

 

You might also consider locking it to those of level 58 or above, as that is when most classes get their final ability, and very, very few people can perform below that level.

[DDaMAGEr]

No changes to dps pt's defenses? It will continue to die in 5 seconds in both ranked and unranked?

Mercs will continue to be unkillable? Come on!

Yeah, l think too current situation with Commando/Mercenary defenses is pretty hilarious. Having same armor rating, but one extra DCD, +3 overpowered perks, to buff DCD (on Merc it's Kolto Surge & Trauma Regulators), AoE resistance etc, while Vanguards/PT have absolutely nothing as counterweight.

l think Echoing Deterrence/Responsive Safeguards must be taken away from Commando/Mercenary and given to Vanguard/PT, that's all. Would be balanced almost ideally, extra DCD won't be excess for Vanguards for sure. lf you ask me - l would also add to Shield Specialist/Tech some perk, that would allow ED/RS to operate with AoE damage and expel removable debuffs, when activated.

Edited July 25, 2017 by DDaMAGEr

[Eloi_BG]

Like I said in Gyro's thread and elsewhere, and what many are saying everywhere on forums. Please don't nerf DPS more. This is breaking PVE progression. NiM Might be easier than you wish it was (but let's be honest I think it's at a good level, well pre 5.3), but we are more than 6 months into an expansion. Your DPS target is too low and you have to bring classes down too much, unless DPS checks are also changed, people will be back to wiping on bosses they used to kill easily and will quit.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Nah. I'm from NY its just the way we *********** talk.

 

Oh ok, that explains it then. My condolences on that then, you have my pity.

[dscount]

Like I said in Gyro's thread and elsewhere, and what many are saying everywhere on forums. Please don't nerf DPS more. This is breaking PVE progression. NiM Might be easier than you wish it was (but let's be honest I think it's at a good level, well pre 5.3), but we are more than 6 months into an expansion. Your DPS target is too low and you have to bring classes down too much, unless DPS checks are also changed, people will be back to wiping on bosses they used to kill easily and will quit.

 

Agreed! While balancing is great it's creating a huge problem with clearing content. Right now many guilds (Some casual, some Semi-Hard Core) have issues just clearing VM (HM) content. The giant round of nerfs we have seen already and the additional nerfs coming in 5.4 (Let's be blunt and honest - you would have published something by now if it was BUFFS to those classes) But I'm pretty sure we have nerfs coming and that means a week before announcement (not feedback request) will yellow drop and everyone will be like "Great communications Keith".

 

If you are gutting our classes across the board we should start seeing some of the content TUNING being completed that will allow us to continue progression content. I've seen nothing about BOSS fight changes so I have to assume the bean counters on balance didn't think about that or it's another departments problem. A very big Bioware problem on left hand has no idea what right hand is doing. Heck you guys can't even fix NIM LOOT still - why is it that hard to fix a simple loot table in a database?

 

Biggest issue - once you break stuff like balance it takes another 6-8 months for you to fix it. Instead of maybe engaging in real communications with players and working on real feedback (not dropped microphone approach) then you might have a chance at deploying an update to the game that's not going to lose more subscriptions once dropped.

 

Bottom line for me - You guys keep making things worse for players in the game. You are bleeding SUBS non-stop every time you open your mouths and tell us how the game should be played you tick people off with nerfs across the board and lack of real two way communication. CXP Grind was a bad career move for the game producer (sugar coat all you want) - Grind was not exciting and it was 180 from DvL event to get people to get more players (Meaning it was likely a cash grab) and then CXP hits and you almost have to only play your main now. Game that is not fun is a game people leave for others that are fun.

[masterceil]

Like I said in Gyro's thread and elsewhere, and what many are saying everywhere on forums. Please don't nerf DPS more. This is breaking PVE progression. NiM Might be easier than you wish it was (but let's be honest I think it's at a good level, well pre 5.3), but we are more than 6 months into an expansion. Your DPS target is too low and you have to bring classes down too much, unless DPS checks are also changed, people will be back to wiping on bosses they used to kill easily and will quit.

 

I wanna say it was TUXs, but another forum poster and I agreed that 1% of raiders should be able to get NiM content on farm, 5% should be able to clear the content comfortably, but 20% should be able to clear it eventually. If the top 20% of players on a class in BiS gear literally, mechanically can't make the DPS/DTPS/Heal checks, it needs to be tuned better.

Edited July 25, 2017 by masterceil

[Tharandil]

Like I said in Gyro's thread and elsewhere, and what many are saying everywhere on forums. Please don't nerf DPS more. This is breaking PVE progression. NiM Might be easier than you wish it was (but let's be honest I think it's at a good level, well pre 5.3), but we are more than 6 months into an expansion. Your DPS target is too low and you have to bring classes down too much, unless DPS checks are also changed, people will be back to wiping on bosses they used to kill easily and will quit.

 

I think it is a good thing they nerved DPS a bit. This game is way to simpel on storymode. Sit back and let your companion heal you through everything. If we want to teach people to play harder (group)content we should make the game more of a challenge (not like dark souls difficulty though:p)

[Alssaran]

I think it is a good thing they nerved DPS a bit. This game is way to simpel on storymode. Sit back and let your companion heal you through everything. If we want to teach people to play harder (group)content we should make the game more of a challenge (not like dark souls difficulty though:p)

 

The DPS nerf on classes has virtually no effect on the difficulty of single-player and story content. That kind of content is tuned in order to provide no challenge even on an average level of skill. Anyone who can press the shining buttons on his quickbar can clear story mode content without using DCD. A 5% damage nerf doesn't make it all that harder. Companions and overly inflated stats are the issue. Not DPS.

 

However, those 5% make a tremendous difference on NiM mode difficulty. The closer you get to the theoretical "necessary vs. possible effective DPS" line, the more frustrating it becomes. When you need a minimum of 9.4k effective DPS to kill a boss, and your class is only able to put out 9.2k effective DPS, then the content is badly tuned.

[MuskyBoy]

Like I said in Gyro's thread and elsewhere, and what many are saying everywhere on forums. Please don't nerf DPS more. This is breaking PVE progression. NiM Might be easier than you wish it was (but let's be honest I think it's at a good level, well pre 5.3), but we are more than 6 months into an expansion. Your DPS target is too low and you have to bring classes down too much, unless DPS checks are also changed, people will be back to wiping on bosses they used to kill easily and will quit.

 

Nim being too easy is a result of the content drought of 4.0. Having a year and a half to perfect your strats means top end groups have maximized their dps uptime and cheese damage to a point they can clear the hardest content while being undergeared or on specs that for most would consider to not be viable. Artificially buffing fights will not address this issue the only way to buff the MM ops for top end players would be to add new mechanics to these old fights (And lets be honest that will never happen). And I agree with what you say for the absolute top end players will find a way to clear everything regardless but it's the next group down and the group after that that will be affected. Putting content beyond the skill cap of too many players was why Hardmare was such a failure, because too many couldn't kill anything of significance (sm too easy, last 3 boss too hard in HM meaning they could not complete an actual operation at their level). The other part of these series of nerf is it effectively gates content. Imagine players having to try and complete RAV for the first time now with the nerfs to sorc healing? Already this op has an appalling clearance rate (in terms of actual accounts who can clear it) and now MnB is going to be even harder (I've already put a thread into suggestion box that that fight should be nerfed (pre sorc healing nerf) but of course nothing will happen).

Edited July 26, 2017 by MuskyBoy

[vadess]

Could you please see that whether or not if the original emotes, like hug and kiss, so the character is actually hugging and kissing the order person. Right now, https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/888693590729338880/GhHEVAff.jpg is the closest we've got right now. Be nice to have this QOL for RPers, especially. Edited July 26, 2017 by vadess

[SilverStarSeaker]

We have a date for when the ranked season ends. Can we please get a date for when we will be told the tier ranks? We need to have at least some time to make sure all our toons are at the right amount. Edited July 26, 2017 by SilverStarSeaker

[notanjelika]

The DPS nerf on classes has virtually no effect on the difficulty of single-player and story content.

 

Really? In BH story class Kellian Jarro and Ayor-v9 handed my a** to me because my DPS was so low even if i was one level above them. Heroic gear, green modded weapons from Fleet, no buffs from other classes except mine because i'm a beginner, no high rank influence with Mako because of no money.. Ah, and the rotation from dulfy.net . Still they hit me for 400 dmg, i hit them for 120 dmg and one, just one 400 crit hit. Not to mention Ki'Ta Kren , he mopped the floor with yours truly , again cause my dps was extremely low. So tell me again how " you soloed all your class missions,didn't died once and everything was PERFECT" , cause i don't believe you.

Edited July 26, 2017 by notanjelika

[Tarbuch]

That's why they need to fix bolster so that players are more useful in game, or make veteran FP give them master FP gear. Regardless all Master FP are doable in 230. The goal is to make more people play the content, not less. Or so I thought. To answer the question, its never fun to get stuck in a FP. But it is even less fun to spend 2+ hours in queue as a tank, which current situation with group finder allows you to.

 

Well currently the gear that drops in the Vet FPs is between rating 46 and 208, aka garbage vendor trash.

[masterceil]

Well currently the gear that drops in the Vet FPs is between rating 46 and 208, aka garbage vendor trash.

 

I would be interested to see what kind of drops they've got planned for MM Umbara... If they're putting up a 242 gear gate, they've got to have sense enough to be putting some damn good drops behind that gate, right?

 

...Right?