Server Merge Discussion Thread

[Pietrastor]

Possibly even a net loss if these merges drive players away.

 

IMO, the most likely to leave would be RP'ers and those who were happy on their current server and did not want to be merged.

 

I'm not saying that we will lose players, but the potential for the loss of players does exist.

 

Server merges will drive less players away than dead servers, I say we can say that with 100% certainty.

[CrazyCT]

LoL, you do know Bioware drove away the most maintenance free group from the game with 5.0.

Pvpers require very little to stay subbed and to play. They have hardly got any new content over the years, the only group who has gotten less is GSF. But lots of pvpers still stayed subbed while at first, Raiders and then story people got looked after first for 4-5 years. Anything pvpers got was an after thought, but still they stayed subbed.

Then Bioware releases 5.0 and pvpers are the first to start leaving, well before RPers, Ops or story people. Lots of those people were long time subscribers like my partner and friends. They were dedicated pvpers and fans of the game. They were relatively easy maintenance when compared to other parts of the game. But still, Bioware opened the door with 5.0 and continued to let them walk out all year because they were too stubborn to admit they were wrong with 5.0. And make some very small changes to stop them leaving.

 

But it doesn’t matter anymore because mergers are happening. Nothing can be done to stop them, so there is no use in continuing to complain about it,

 

Are you serious? It's the PvPers who demanded servers get merged cause they need their precious queue to pop in under 5 minutes or they'd walk away. It's PvPers who are constantly demanding the classes get re-balanced to the annoyance of everyone else. It PvPers who are begging for new maps. The RPers just asked to be left alone.

 

But as you say, they won, so there's no use complaining about it. Just like they didn't complain when the servers WEREN'T getting merged. Now it fits what you want, everyone else should put up and shut up.

[DWho]

But it doesn’t matter anymore because mergers are happening. Nothing can be done to stop them, so there is no use in continuing to complain about it,

 

It didn't seem to matter to PVPers that changes were made and there was nothing they could do about it. They complained a lot. First they complained that those filthy PVErs were able to be competitive with them because they played a larger portion of the game and acquired gear faster (which was what was intended in fact). Then they complained about class balancing before it was even finished. Then they took their ball and went home leaving the few remaining PVPers complaining about their long WZ pop times which were caused entirely by the PVP community walking away from the game. PVPers and Raiders created a lot of their own problems and then blamed it on the story and RP players. Should they have gotten more support? Probably. It's only fair that the story and RP players get to complain a bit regardless of whether it has any impact. Besides, it was the constant complaining that got the server mergers to happen, so there is precedent for complaints to matter.

[Totemdancer]

It didn't seem to matter to PVPers that changes were made and there was nothing they could do about it. They complained a lot. First they complained that those filthy PVErs were able to be competitive with them because they played a larger portion of the game and acquired gear faster (which was what was intended in fact). Then they complained about class balancing before it was even finished. Then they took their ball and went home leaving the few remaining PVPers complaining about their long WZ pop times which were caused entirely by the PVP community walking away from the game. PVPers and Raiders created a lot of their own problems and then blamed it on the story and RP players. Should they have gotten more support? Probably. It's only fair that the story and RP players get to complain a bit regardless of whether it has any impact. Besides, it was the constant complaining that got the server mergers to happen, so there is precedent for complaints to matter.

 

Sorry, but that is the biggest load of conjecture I’ve read for awhile. As someone who actively plays all parts of the game, I can tell you that your logic and conclusions are way off. Your language when discussing other communities in the game is also offensive. No pvpers refer to people as “those filthy pvers”. If you want people to feel and empathy for RPers and Story players, you might want to tone that down abit because all it will do is create a bigger divide.

You seem to be so angry about this merge and so wrapped up in your own little part of the game with no experience of how the other halves live, so that your point of view is extremely twisted. I’ll put that down to you being upset about mergers.

[DWho]

Sorry, but that is the biggest load of conjecture I’ve read for awhile. As someone who actively plays all parts of the game, I can tell you that your logic and conclusions are way off. Your language when discussing other communities in the game is also offensive. No pvpers refer to people as “those filthy pvers”. If you want people to feel and empathy for RPers and Story players, you might want to tone that down abit because all it will do is create a bigger divide.

You seem to be so angry about this merge and so wrapped up in your own little part of the game with no experience of how the other halves live, so that your point of view is extremely twisted. I’ll put that down to you being upset about mergers.

 

Just so you understand my response. It was you that said that there was nothing that could be done and everyone should just stop complaining. Which effectively says dissenting opinions don't matter anymore. If you are offended by my use of terminology I am sorry but there are plenty of posts in the PVP forum derogatory towards people who are "casuals" (and many more complaining about how PVE players have an advantage over PVP players). My logic is off in what way? The PVP players have been the most vocal complainers on the forums (a read through the PVP forums shows that without a doubt.) It is also obvious that the reason that WZ pop times have collapsed recently because no one is queueing for the content. Just a few months ago there were nearly 1500 people on JC and you could not get a warzone to pop (well I could but there were people saying they couldn't). That only takes 16 players to happen (or 8 if its an Arena). The only explanations are that the PVP population crashed or everybody walked away from doing warzones. I'll let you take your pick but it effectively comes to the same point, people who were PVPing walked away from that content. My personal belief (if that makes you feel better) is that the PVP community walked away from the game (which is consistent with a number of the posts in the PVP forum).

 

I'm not angry about the merge. I am concerned about everyone who plays the game but there are certain communities that are currently under attack and I am going to fight for them. I stand by statements that I made earlier that the RP community got hosed by this update. Throughout this thread there are post of people who are not part of that community saying effectively "what's the big deal" and when people from that community respond, they are attacked as overreacting. While the server mergers are going to happen, the fallout from them is far from certain and waiting to "see how it goes" is always a bad decision rather than being proactive (meaning stating concerns or relevant experiences). I do play all aspects of the game and have since the beginning so I have experienced a lot of the problems you are taking as not a big deal. It is that attitude that that makes me angry. That was the problem with the majority of the merge server threads and is the problem with all the threads about helping the RP community cope with a massive change to their playstyle.

Edited October 4, 2017 by DWho

[TUXs]

Server merges will drive less players away than dead servers, I say we can say that with 100% certainty.

This is my belief as well.

[Totemdancer]

Are you serious? It's the PvPers who demanded servers get merged cause they need their precious queue to pop in under 5 minutes or they'd walk away. It's PvPers who are constantly demanding the classes get re-balanced to the annoyance of everyone else. It PvPers who are begging for new maps. The RPers just asked to be left alone.

 

But as you say, they won, so there's no use complaining about it. Just like they didn't complain when the servers WEREN'T getting merged. Now it fits what you want, everyone else should put up and shut up.

 

And story people and RPers weren’t constantly asking for more story or companions or strong holds or romances all year?

Would you prefer to go back to 4.0, get no new content for RP, just so you could be left along to play stale content on dead servers. How long do you think that would last?

Common, let’s be realistic. Pvpers have always complained loudly, but are rarely listened to by the Devs. The Devs consider them mushrooms. You’d complain all the time too if you were kept in the dark for 5 years and fed poo,

Pvpers also weren’t the only people calling for mergers. People who group content wanted mergers. Saying it was just pvpers is being untruthful.

Pvpers have been begging for more maps since launch and hardly had any love. If you compare the amount of time and effort required to make 18 chapters of story or Operations to how much time it takes to make a pvp map, then pvpers are getting crumbs,

Pvpers also didn’t want wide scale class changes and certainly didn’t want any dps nerfing. You can go back to the beginning of the year to read what they asked for and it was more than reasonable. Bioware totally ignored everything they were told. The reason they ignored it was the balancing they are doing has nothing to do with pvp, it’s about their own internal dps performance targets vs pve content.

But just in case you can’t be bothered to go read what pvpers actually asked for this year, let me list them. They are much less than what every other group has asked for or got.

 

1. Tone down Merc survivability in pvp which is still OP. This was only for defensive cool downs.

2. Engineering snipers plasma Probe need to have a cool down so it couldn’t be constantly spammed everywhere,

Neither of those two would have affected pve or rp and would have required a very small change to implement

 

3. Tone down Sorc healing in pvp as it was too OP.

Had negative affect on pve because Bioware still didn’t listen to feed back on what part was OP and how to fix it so that it wouldn’t have a negative impact on pve. Bioware didnt even just nerf healing spec, they nerfed all Sorcs self healing which made the dps Sorcs worse.

Once again, not asked for by the pvpers

 

4. Buffs needed for dps Sorcs and PT.

PTs are totllay ignored and Madness Sorcs get a tiny buff. Lightning Sorcs, the worst performing spec in both pvp and pve gets nothing to go along with their self healing nerf.

 

5. Pvpers wanted Bolster put back to the lvl it was when 5.0 was released so that pvp was about skill and not gear.

Once again totally ignored

 

6. Pvpers wanted some game breaking bugs fixed that seemed to get worse all year.

Still ignored

 

That’s pretty much it. Pvpers only started to ask for mergers because people were leaving because Bioware refused to fix any of the above. But it wasn’t just them having that problem, pvers were having the same problem, just not as bad.

Saying mergers is pvpers or pve people’s fault is completely untrue. The only people at fault is Bioware because they refused to listen to feed back that would have alleviated most of the reasons people were leaving.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Totemdancer

[Lunafox]

I just wanted to say, that while I was content on Shadowlands and really had no need or desire to move, I am grateful that the devs are making it as painless as possible, in terms of us not losing our guild ships, strongholds, deco, and not having to reform the guilds, or lose our appearance stuff etc.

 

I'm also grateful that SL people weren't forced together with Harbinger ppl. I do feel sorry for the Rpers that were stuffed together with them.

 

But I am grateful that I'm not losing my stuff and even though I didn't want to move and will be forced to, I can live with the compromise and hope that things will work out ok for everyone.

[DWho]

I just wanted to say, that while I was content on Shadowlands and really had no need or desire to move, I am grateful that the devs are making it as painless as possible, in terms of us not losing our guild ships, strongholds, deco, and not having to reform the guilds, or lose our appearance stuff etc.

 

I'm also grateful that SL people weren't forced together with Harbinger ppl. I do feel sorry for the Rpers that were stuffed together with them.

 

But I am grateful that I'm not losing my stuff and even though I didn't want to move and will be forced to, I can live with the compromise and hope that things will work out ok for everyone.

 

I think this is the general consensus of people who were resistant to server merges. The majority of the issues that were discussed were addressed. The rest will take time.

[DanNV]

I think this is the general consensus of people who were resistant to server merges. The majority of the issues that were discussed were addressed. The rest will take time.

 

The biggest problem is that they are merging servers 2 years too late. Combining the West Coast into one isn't going to end up with much more than Harbinger has now. The east Coast may see a good gain since the servers there are more balanced populationwise. I don't know what will happen to the European servers.

 

Unfortunately, I expect this will be typical BW, too little, too late with too many bugs.

[DWho]

The biggest problem is that they are merging servers 2 years too late. Combining the West Coast into one isn't going to end up with much more than Harbinger has now. The east Coast may see a good gain since the servers there are more balanced populationwise. I don't know what will happen to the European servers.

 

Unfortunately, I expect this will be typical BW, too little, too late with too many bugs.

 

The problem was, I think, that Bioware did not understand why people did not want to be merged. They effectively said that earlier this year in a podcast. Then once they found out, they were faced with a huge technical hurdle. If they had rushed into mergers in the state the game was earlier this year we would probably be in the same place as we will be after the current merger plans complete. Merging servers then would have caused a huge chunk of the community to give up on the game entirely. Effectively it was a no win scenario. If you can hang on to the guilds, there is a chance for rebuilding. If they walked away, it would have been game over.

 

The whole thing with Harbinger is interesting in that it may become the go to server for people who want to play on a lower population server. For most aspects of the game, the increased ping is not an issue.

[DenariusJay]

Are you serious? It's the PvPers who demanded servers get merged cause they need their precious queue to pop in under 5 minutes or they'd walk away.

 

I don't believe this is fair to square this solely on pvpers. There is other content in this game that people complain aren't getting enough pops, flashpoints (especially MM's), uprisings, GSF, and SM operations, also the lack of forming raid groups on dead servers is also a problem. It's not just pvpers who wanted merges, its people who want to actually play group content but can't because theres 25 people on fleet during prime time. They matter too.

 

It's PvPers who are constantly demanding the classes get re-balanced to the annoyance of everyone else.

 

Not a fair assessments IMO. Sorc DPS players have been whining for along time to be relevant in certain HM ops and NiM raiding. Marksman players are not thrilled that they have to relearn alts to be relevant in certain NiM raids. Alot of pve'rs even agreed that Sorc heals were far ahead of any other healing class, and bringing any of the other two healing classes could be a detriment to the ops group due to them always being underneath Sorc healing. The ever more interesting thing is that PvPers that did complain about balance was mostly utility based, not DPS based. To squarely pin all class balance changes on PvPers is pretty biased.

 

Its PvPers who are begging for new maps.

 

Not sure why you soloed out pvpers for this. Flashpoint players want more flashpoints. Raid teams want more ops. Guilds want more conquest stuff. It's not a unique thing for players that enjoy certain content demand more of it. Story mode players want more story content and can never get enough not even for a moment without pitchforks and flames.

 

The RPers just asked to be left alone.

 

You still need people to RP with. For what it's worth, BW said they are activily looking into what they can do to preserve the RP experience on the new servers. Take as a empty promise, grain of salt, etc. But atleast they acknowledged it.

 

But as you say, they won, so there's no use complaining about it. Just like they didn't complain when the servers WEREN'T getting merged. Now it fits what you want, everyone else should put up and shut up.

 

Must everything be turned into a "Us vs Them" in this game? Players need to zoom out and look at the bigger picture. It's not healthy for the overall state of the game to have 10 dead servers that potential new players can land on and quit on. Now with 1 east, 1 west - new players can definitively have que pops and a population to reach out too for group content - this drastically increases the odds of a newer player staying and making this game there MMO home. The server merges is for the overall health of the game, yes some will grumble, but if it saves the game for another 2 or 3 years for us to continue to enjoy, then its worth it.

[DWho]

I don't believe this is fair to square this solely on pvpers. There is other content in this game that people complain aren't getting enough pops, flashpoints (especially MM's), uprisings, GSF, and SM operations, also the lack of forming raid groups on dead servers is also a problem. It's not just pvpers who wanted merges, its people who want to actually play group content but can't because theres 25 people on fleet during prime time. They matter too.

 

 

 

Not a fair assessments IMO. Sorc DPS players have been whining for along time to be relevant in certain HM ops and NiM raiding. Marksman players are not thrilled that they have to relearn alts to be relevant in certain NiM raids. Alot of pve'rs even agreed that Sorc heals were far ahead of any other healing class, and bringing any of the other two healing classes could be a detriment to the ops group due to them always being underneath Sorc healing. The ever more interesting thing is that PvPers that did complain about balance was mostly utility based, not DPS based. To squarely pin all class balance changes on PvPers is pretty biased.

 

 

 

Not sure why you soloed out pvpers for this. Flashpoint players want more flashpoints. Raid teams want more ops. Guilds want more conquest stuff. It's not a unique thing for players that enjoy certain content demand more of it. Story mode players want more story content and can never get enough not even for a moment without pitchforks and flames.

 

 

 

You still need people to RP with. For what it's worth, BW said they are activily looking into what they can do to preserve the RP experience on the new servers. Take as a empty promise, grain of salt, etc. But atleast they acknowledged it.

 

 

 

Must everything be turned into a "Us vs Them" in this game? Players need to zoom out and look at the bigger picture. It's not healthy for the overall state of the game to have 10 dead servers that potential new players can land on and quit on. Now with 1 east, 1 west - new players can definitively have que pops and a population to reach out too for group content - this drastically increases the odds of a newer player staying and making this game there MMO home. The server merges is for the overall health of the game, yes some will grumble, but if it saves the game for another 2 or 3 years for us to continue to enjoy, then its worth it.

 

Its not solely PVPers but they are the most vocal (and often the most toxic) group in the game so they draw attention to themselves quite easily. Their content is also the only content in the game that is almost exclusively random group content that benefits greatly from "crowded" servers. Since a lot of people who PVP only PVP they are not bothered by the things that bother the RP and story communities so they tend not to see them as an issue. When you read a comment in the forums you can usually guess whether someone is primarily a PVPer by the attitude they take toward certain content (not always but a lot more than say someone who is primarily a raider). Unfortunately it has been us vs them for a long time. The entire Server Merge thread after about the first 10 pages was less about doing merges right than calling people names (myself not excepted). There was plenty of denigrating other peoples gameplay going on which hardens the battle lines. Maybe it will be different going forward but only time will tell.

[FerkWork]

FeelsGoodMan

[Ylliarus]

Its not solely PVPers but they are the most vocal (and often the most toxic) group in the game so they draw attention to themselves quite easily. Their content is also the only content in the game that is almost exclusively random group content that benefits greatly from "crowded" servers. Since a lot of people who PVP only PVP they are not bothered by the things that bother the RP and story communities so they tend not to see them as an issue. When you read a comment in the forums you can usually guess whether someone is primarily a PVPer by the attitude they take toward certain content (not always but a lot more than say someone who is primarily a raider). Unfortunately it has been us vs them for a long time. The entire Server Merge thread after about the first 10 pages was less about doing merges right than calling people names (myself not excepted). There was plenty of denigrating other peoples gameplay going on which hardens the battle lines. Maybe it will be different going forward but only time will tell.

 

The blade cuts two ways, the PVP'ers have no right to grief rp'ers for the way we play the game or that we don't want the same things as them, but neither do we RP'ers have the right to turn all the PVP'ers into boogeymen as there are a lot of people who engage frequently and passionately in PvP but are the nicest of people out there. PvP'ers can be elitist, but from personal experience I know RP'ers can be elitist too. So the first step would be to simply acknowledge PvP'ers play the game differently and RP'ers play the game differently and one playstyle is not better than the other. It might be best to ignore one another for a while until things have simmered down. Then we can see if any form of consensus is possible and if not simply remain apart and each play the game our own way without interacting with one another.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Ylliarus

[DenariusJay]

Its not solely PVPers but they are the most vocal (and often the most toxic) group in the game so they draw attention to themselves quite easily.

 

This is because there is no other content that actively challenges you to know every single class in the game like PvP. PvPers probably spend the most time in this game then any other player. They go for hours and hours and run into every possible scenario when it comes to class vs class warfare. There content *is* class vs class. SO when a class is obviously over-performing in the pvp arena, and when a class is grossly under-performing in an arena, it really does effect the content they are trying to enjoy. Once this happens, the pitchforks come out and the flames are lit.

 

A good example of this is the ranked scene. Because certain classes lack DCDs, they are practically unplayable in the ranked scene, and because certain classes are practically god-like, they are the most played in the ranked season. Because of this, taking to the forums and demanding for class balance is a big deal for pvpers. They are vocal because it's competition. Find pvp in any game and you will find right behind it a vocal community.

 

I would like to point out again that the class balance that pvpers were looking for was almost exclusively utility related. Pinning all the dps/heal nerfs on PvPers is biased and not even truthful TBH.

Edited October 4, 2017 by DenariusJay

[DWho]

This is because there is no other content that actively challenges you to know every single class in the game like PvP. PvPers probably spend the most time in this game then any other player. They go for hours and hours and run into every possible scenario when it comes to class vs class warfare. There content *is* class vs class. SO when a class is obviously over-performing in the pvp arena, and when a class is grossly under-performing in an arena, it really does effect the content they are trying to enjoy. Once this happens, the pitchforks come out and the flames are lit.

 

A good example of this is the ranked scene. Because certain classes lack DCDs, they are practically unplayable in the ranked scene, and because certain classes are practically god-like, they are the most played in the ranked season. Because of this, taking to the forums and demanding for class balance is a big deal for pvpers. They are vocal because it's competition. Find pvp in any game and you will find right behind it a vocal community.

 

I would like to point out again that the class balance that pvpers were looking for was almost exclusively utility related. Pinning all the dps/heal nerfs on PvPers is biased and not even truthful TBH.

 

I think we need to wait until the class balancing is complete before we pass judgement on it. Right now we are looking at some classes that have been adjusted compared to some that haven't. Until every class has been completed there is no good way to compare their performance. It just needs time and understanding about the complexities of balancing very disparate classes.

 

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against PVP players (most of them anyway).

[Totemdancer]

The biggest problem is that they are merging servers 2 years too late. Combining the West Coast into one isn't going to end up with much more than Harbinger has now. The east Coast may see a good gain since the servers there are more balanced populationwise. I don't know what will happen to the European servers.

 

Unfortunately, I expect this will be typical BW, too little, too late with too many bugs.

 

Definitely too little and too late by Bioware.

 

I’m not sure about your assessment regarding east coast server populations. Yes there are more of them and shadowlands wasn’t completely dead at the beginning of the year. But both TEH and SL were still well below Harbingers numbers, at least they were a month ago. Now we have no way of gauging it because none of them seem to reach standard population. Which means they all say low and who knows what that means in numbers.

I think you might find that the mergers will bring east coast up to west coast lvls and it will be more balanced. I don’t think there will be a massive surge in total population numbers of east coast being more dominant.

Sadly that doesn’t help either coast because as you pointed out, there won’t be a massive increase in the west coast consolidation. Unless players come back (which I’ve had feed back my guild and friends are), then numbers may not even reach what they were 3 months ago on Harbinger. Fingers crossed that Bioware haven’t left this so late that the game still dies regardless.

[Draqsko]

Definitely too little and too late by Bioware.

 

I’m not sure about your assessment regarding east coast server populations. Yes there are more of them and shadowlands wasn’t completely dead at the beginning of the year. But both TEH and SL were still well below Harbingers numbers, at least they were a month ago. Now we have no way of gauging it because none of them seem to reach standard population. Which means they all say low and who knows what that means in numbers.

I think you might find that the mergers will bring east coast up to west coast lvls and it will be more balanced. I don’t think there will be a massive surge in total population numbers of east coast being more dominant.

Sadly that doesn’t help either coast because as you pointed out, there won’t be a massive increase in the west coast consolidation. Unless players come back (which I’ve had feed back my guild and friends are), then numbers may not even reach what they were 3 months ago on Harbinger. Fingers crossed that Bioware haven’t left this so late that the game still dies regardless.

 

East coast might become dominant because a lot of people transferred to Harbinger from an east coast server because it was the server with the fastest pops in everything. Those people may be tempted back with a lower ping and a comparable server on the east coast, tough to say though because they might have found guilds they don't want to leave now.

 

It was left to too late and the game will die eventually, it just won't die at least for another year. But let's be honest here, this merger is basically them cashing in all their chips and going for broke. There won't be another population consolidation in the future, there will be sunsetting.

[Tisaren]

BW is not too late, IMO.

 

If not enough players are into regularly participating in PvP and/or group content, nothing BW does will improve the experience of players who are. In spite of what many want us to believe SWTOR is still mainly a story driven solo game. This appeals to players with a preference for this type of play. This has nothing to do with RP, btw.

 

Again:

Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ is the only massively-multiplayer online game with a Free-to-Play option that puts you at the center of your own story-driven Star Wars™ saga.

 

Reviews by gaming sites on the internet nearly always point out that the story is what sets SWTOR apart from other MMO's. Not the generic stuff like PvP and raids one finds in most MMO's. This is the main reason why I think these mergers will not benefit PvP/Puggers at all in the long run.

 

Just my opinion: PvP/group content may 'die', but this does not necessarily mean SWTOR will 'die'.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Tisaren

[orangenee]

If the groupers throw in the towel it'll just end up with players coming in, doing the stories then sodding off again.

 

EA will glance at the financials and bin it without a second thought once that starts happening.

 

Once the mergers kick in players will return, then they'll eventually see why they left in the first place and clear out again.

 

Mergers alone won't save the game, it's waiting to die at this point but a nice surge of content might turn it around. That last scenario is unlikely though.

 

In fact in my case the merger might kill the game entirely for me as I'll have to put up with the great evil that is other players. I find a good deal of them intolerable as it is.

 

We'll see what we'll see I guess.

[Draqsko]

Just my opnion: PvP/group content may 'die', but this does not necessarily mean SWTOR will 'die'.

 

SWTOR as the current content release model will die though, maybe something like story packs that Telltale Games does, but a player paying $15 bucks to get ALL currently released content won't cut it. It certainly didn't work for 4.0 even with the MMO players still being around, otherwise why did they switch back to bigger periodic releases? Don't say manpower issues, because if 4.0 was really successful they wouldn't have manpower issues since they'd have money to hire more people.

[Tisaren]

If the groupers throw in the towel it'll just end up with players coming in, doing the stories then sodding off again.

I doubt that. I have around 25 characters spread over 2 servers, but on this forum I read that there are players with 40-50 characters or more. Doesn't that show that the replayability of the SWTOR stories is pretty good?

[Transcendent]

SWTOR as the current content release model will die though, maybe something like story packs that Telltale Games does, but a player paying $15 bucks to get ALL currently released content won't cut it. It certainly didn't work for 4.0 even with the MMO players still being around, otherwise why did they switch back to bigger periodic releases? Don't say manpower issues, because if 4.0 was really successful they wouldn't have manpower issues since they'd have money to hire more people.

 

Story packs well may be in the future of SWTOR, with no further updates to multiplayer content. That isn't quite yet though, and I highly doubt they would retain a subscription model if they chose to go that route, or if they did you would only get access to content you were subscribed for at any point in time.

 

4.0 may well have been successful in pulling in extra players to do story content, I'm not sure that is in dispute. However it was at the detriment of multiplayer content. 5.0 doubled down on that stupidity, as well as removing options for weekly passes (monumental mistake imho) and removing a solid gearing progression system in favour of requiring a subscription for RNG gearing. That has led us to where we currently are, minimal activity.

 

There isn't a single option that will return all of those lost players, it requires a multi-faceted approach to improve the health of this game. Certainly by consolidating the players on a handful of servers may well indeed assist things like group finder queues. It may well be at the detriment of RP players or players who prefer to play in a more peaceful setting.

 

What will be interesting going forward is seeing how RP players and "peaceful" players are catered too. Equally going forward it will be interesting to see what form of future development this game will get.

 

Hopefully it'll be moves in a similar direction of updates to all areas of the game (Story / Multiplayer content). Equally it will be interesting to see how they address concerns about gearing, RNG gearing simply doesn't cut it for certain aspects of the game (raiding / pvp) and that still remains in a poor state. Then there is the question of how to actually get people to play who don't have subscriptions, bringing back the passes in some manner would be a good improvement even if it's an overarching Galactic Command weekly pass that allows access to all areas of the game.

 

Without new content though, and much more of it much more frequently, server merges alone will not be enough. All that is really happening is mostly bored "been there done that" players are being moved into the same area. They'll still be bored.

[Draqsko]

Story packs well may be in the future of SWTOR, with no further updates to multiplayer content. That isn't quite yet though, and I highly doubt they would retain a subscription model if they chose to go that route, or if they did you would only get access to content you were subscribed for at any point in time.

 

4.0 may well have been successful in pulling in extra players to do story content, I'm not sure that is in dispute. However it was at the detriment of multiplayer content. 5.0 doubled down on that stupidity, as well as removing options for weekly passes (monumental mistake imho) and removing a solid gearing progression system in favour of requiring a subscription for RNG gearing. That has led us to where we currently are, minimal activity.

 

There isn't a single option that will return all of those lost players, it requires a multi-faceted approach to improve the health of this game. Certainly by consolidating the players on a handful of servers may well indeed assist things like group finder queues. It may well be at the detriment of RP players or players who prefer to play in a more peaceful setting.

 

What will be interesting going forward is seeing how RP players and "peaceful" players are catered too. Equally going forward it will be interesting to see what form of future development this game will get.

 

Hopefully it'll be moves in a similar direction of updates to all areas of the game (Story / Multiplayer content). Equally it will be interesting to see how they address concerns about gearing, RNG gearing simply doesn't cut it for certain aspects of the game (raiding / pvp) and that still remains in a poor state. Then there is the question of how to actually get people to play who don't have subscriptions, bringing back the passes in some manner would be a good improvement even if it's an overarching Galactic Command weekly pass that allows access to all areas of the game.

 

Without new content though, and much more of it much more frequently, server merges alone will not be enough. All that is really happening is mostly bored "been there done that" players are being moved into the same area. They'll still be bored.

 

I agree with most of your assessment, except for one point: 4.0. It brought a lot of story players but once those players figured out they could subscribe one month out of the year and get everything at the end of the release cycle that is exactly what most of them did (can you really blame them, they really only want a single player game and there's no single player game worth $180). You can tell because Bioware switched from a monthly release cadence back to their periodic release cadence for 5.0 because the monthly thing didn't keep people subscribed.

 

So they tried subscription "BM boxes" gearing and no weekly passes for f2p to keep people in the seats and that literally blew up what was left of group content players. 4.0 was not as successful as their financials seemed to indicate because most people forget their FY starts in the last quarter of the calendar year, so the first quarter of that financial was largely the anticipation of 4.0, and the second quarter was the first 9 chapters. After that I'm willing to bet sub numbers fell off the cliff at the tail end of the FY which is why 5.0 was switched off monthly chapter releases.

 

The server mergers are needed, at least for the old PVP servers, they are an albatross around the neck of this game. I have literally never seen servers so dead on any MMO with currently planned content releases as Jung Ma is right now. I mean I can't even find bots on Pub side, many times when I who search the entire Pub side will fit in one page and often it'll just be me and my guildies that are the only level 70s. Imp side might be better but it is still deader than either Bugs or HWS public Empyrion servers (Empyrion is a minecraft-esque survival game that's still in Early Access although it looks like it'll be finished before Space Engineers). I knew it was getting bad, but I never thought I would ever see a truly dead server since most companies will either shut down the game or merge servers long before that point.

 

You are right in that it will take far more than server mergers to bring back the health of the game, it is only a first step. They are at the point where they really can't afford to alienate any player group anymore. Just look at GSF the red-headed stepchild of SWTOR PvP, they are going to work on it after how many years of nothing? No one knows neglect better than a GSFer and yet even they are getting something in the future. I think all the subtle things speak volumes about the state of the game and just how much work Keith will have to do to right the ship.

 

They got a 6 month sub out of me and my fiancée as a show of support with the current direction they are taking, beyond that they will need to continue to support ALL ASPECTS of the game like they did before 4.0 because quite honestly that was when the game was most successful. I'm not expecting that to happen overnight, but I do expect that to be the direction of the game going forward, no more of this BS focusing on only one group at a time. Everyone needs to get a little piece of the pie or we all lose the whole pie.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Draqsko