"The Game is Dying" a brief history of this idea and how long it has been going on.

[tummiswtor]

Full servers? Or even in half? That's a thing I've not heard in a long time... a long time... Edited November 14, 2016 by tummiswtor

[TheNahash]

By locking out the non subscribers in a month well, that aint gonna help.

 

Be honest do you think the upcoming xpack is going to add subs?

 

People might sub for a month or 2 to see the story and then they will be gone.

 

In six months its going to be interesting to see who is left.

 

It will add subs.

They might not stay for long - which probably was the whole point of releasing the previous expac's chapters every couple of months.

 

Some, however, will find guilds and stay for PVP, old OPs and Uprisings. Others will return and hang around until they eventually get all their toons to max level and get bored with the game again.

 

And of course a large chunk will not return. Which is probably the same chuck of people who has fundamental issues with the game and would never return no matter what they did.

 

Considering they have limited resources and the game is already 5 years old, it's past its prime and no one expects a huge number of people to return. And at this point, they don't even care about that because their main income source is the cartel market.

 

And I for one, despite my personal grievances with the game, am really happy that no matter what some people might think the game has not turned into a P2W nightmare.

Edited November 14, 2016 by TheNahash

[Nempo]

To be fair, it likely was dying during these times- but the time of death is what has been mistaken.

 

I'd ask a few questions. How are the servers today compared to the servers a year ago?

And the year before that?

etc

 

once you look at it from that perspective, I'd say the game has been dying - it just isn't dead.

 

Harbinger and Ebon Hawk have been experience more activity this year than last year, going by sheer volume and speed of pops. According to your theory then, it would seem some servers are dying not the game as other servers are experiencing growth. Hell just last night I helped a few groups of newbies I ran across while making yet another JK alt. Several new players to the game all loving the full VO and stories. Assuming they play this game as most play BW games...they have a good 7-9 months of story to play through.

Unfortunately people forget just how massive the game actually is, and the fact it is fully voiced. Sure, WoW has a giant world, but it isn't voiced and once you play a game with full VO a game that lacks it seems inferior in a big way if you care anything about story or lore. The voices, conversations as you zoom past even, help the world feel more immersive.

[Aeneas_Falco]

I think part of the issue is that for many players it is hard to see beyond their guild. Someone back in say 2013, sees their once active guild dying, and thinks the same must be true across the entire game despite the fact that server population is at its highest since release.

 

So they log into the forums and post a thread about how the game has died. The player doesn't realize that it is just the natural lifespan of a guild playing out, and that his or her guild has died because it failed to recruit enough new members to replace the old.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[Krazhez]

I don't know about that, SWTOR seems to have regularly been outperforming games like RIFT and Champions Online, and those are still live - to say nothing of Age of Conan and others that have been kept active for ages even though they appear to have significantly lower populations than SWTOR.

 

I would have never picked up the game if it wasn't star wars. Neither would a lot of people I know, that used to play WoW.

[Jamtas]

Harbinger and Ebon Hawk have been experience more activity this year than last year, going by sheer volume and speed of pops. According to your theory then, it would seem some servers are dying not the game as other servers are experiencing growth. Hell just last night I helped a few groups of newbies I ran across while making yet another JK alt. Several new players to the game all loving the full VO and stories. Assuming they play this game as most play BW games...they have a good 7-9 months of story to play through.

Unfortunately people forget just how massive the game actually is, and the fact it is fully voiced. Sure, WoW has a giant world, but it isn't voiced and once you play a game with full VO a game that lacks it seems inferior in a big way if you care anything about story or lore. The voices, conversations as you zoom past even, help the world feel more immersive.

 

The growth they are experiencing does not offset the loss of entire servers. I am actually on harb having transferred off Bastion during the 90CC transfer. The harb population is nice yes, but that doesn't make the game more populated than when there were more healthy servers.

 

Also, please note I said dying not dead in my first post.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Jamtas

[KyaniteD]

despite the fact that server population is at its highest since release.

 

 

Ok.

 

In Europe, only TRE and T3-M4 rise above "light" regularly at prime time, and in North America, Shadowlands and JC barely get over "light" at prime time and only Harbinger and Ebon Hawk reliably reach standard regularly.

 

And yes, I know they increased max population numbers by introducing instances, but that doesn't change that actual numbers on fleet even at prime time rarely reach instance cap now, when at peak times it used to be 2 or even 3 instances in better days.

 

 

Fleet population right now, prime time for Europe

Vanjervalis Chain (Ger): 27

Jar'Kai Sword (Ger): 9

T3-M4 (Ger): ~120

TRE (En): 200+

Progenitor (En): 76

TOFN (En): 17

 

Go ahead and tell people on Vanjervalis Chain or TOFN that it only seems so empty because their own guild is dead.

Edited November 14, 2016 by KyaniteD

[Rolodome]

It amuses me greatly how in the face of substantial evidence there are still people saying this time it is really dieing. That only works when you consider that everything there is, is getting closer to death (all the time).

 

Then again a lot of people on the forums seem to think they represent the entire population or seem fit to speak for everyone. All the complaints about OPs and PvP are clear examples of this, as are the claims that "BW does not give a **** about the game" and that they "never listen to the players". Call it unworldly, paranoid or having a bad day.

 

On the flip side, this thread was never going to go anywhere. It seems to give an 'objective' point of view but then mocks the opposing viewpoints. Not the best way to start a discussion...or anything really.

 

 

Bottom line: the chances of SWTOR actually dieing soon is quite small but a thread like this speaks only to those already aware of this...

I think the factor people are missing is that when a game this big, with this many resources put into it, and with one of the most secure IPs in the world dies... it's not going to be "hey guys, we're pulling the plug tomorrow." It's going to be a long, slow, arduous death that the game's final players can see coming a mile away.

 

And I don't think we're anywhere near that "point of no return" yet. As it is, there is no reason to believe the game is going into maintenance mode any time soon. Not unless 5.0 flops more hardcore than even the worst predictions. I think a lot of the people who say they're going to give 5.0 a try will get hooked on the RNG, just as whales get hooked on the RNG of the CM, and no matter how bitter they get, a lot of them will stick around anyway because the randomness is inherently addictive (particularly if command crates involve cosmetic drops).

 

Or everyone will quit and it will be a graveyard after 5.0. Those are the only two possibilities.

[iowaboynca]

I think a lot of the people who say they're going to give 5.0 a try will get hooked on the RNG, just as whales get hooked on the RNG of the CM, and no matter how bitter they get, a lot of them will stick around anyway because the randomness is inherently addictive (particularly if command crates involve cosmetic drops).

 

Or everyone will quit and it will be a graveyard after 5.0. Those are the only two possibilities.

 

That's a good point, you may be on to something there.

[Krazhez]

I think a lot of the people who say they're going to give 5.0 a try will get hooked on the RNG, just as whales get hooked on the RNG of the CM, and no matter how bitter they get, a lot of them will stick around anyway because the randomness is inherently addictive (particularly if command crates involve cosmetic drops).

 

Or everyone will quit and it will be a graveyard after 5.0. Those are the only two possibilities.

 

I think that's why they are doing the RNG boxes, people like shinies and surprises. We'll see if its compelling enough.

[Fardarter]

Here's one for you. Rift a free to play game adds more content in a quarterly content patch than swtor does when they call it an expansion!

 

THE ONLY THING keeping this game going is STAR WARS.

[Transcendent]

No, if "the game" is "a multi-user online entertainment service with the name Star Wars: The Old Republic", it won't die any time soon.

 

For me, however, the game I truly loved has been dying since 3.0 and from the looks of it, with 5.0 it will have changed so much that I'll probably consider it dead to me.

 

Ah, now this is closer to the source of the truth for all of the threads linked in the OP. Players considering the game dead to them (or dying to them, but you get the point ).

 

OP. The point of this thread is what? "The game is dying" is a common meme throughout gaming history, it's been going on longer than SWTOR has been around, and will be around long after SWTOR actually is gone into the archives of history and memories.

 

Now if you had come up with the original source of that meme, that would have made interesting reading

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I don't know about that, SWTOR seems to have regularly been outperforming games like RIFT and Champions Online, and those are still live - to say nothing of Age of Conan and others that have been kept active for ages even though they appear to have significantly lower populations than SWTOR.

 

The game with that is arguably using one of the the most recognised and popular IPs in the world is out performing IPs that are practically unknown I comparison?

 

That doesn't really diminish his point at all as I see it?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Harbinger and Ebon Hawk have been experience more activity this year than last year, going by sheer volume and speed of pops.

 

Wow that's not subjective at all.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I would have never picked up the game if it wasn't star wars. Neither would a lot of people I know, that used to play WoW.

 

I'm in the same boat - it was "Star Wars" and "Old Republic" that got me into this game. I hated online gaming beyond FPS shooters before this game and never had any intention what so ever of ever trying any of the MMO content. Here I m though years later having done it all ... go figure.

 

Point remains I wouldn't have been here were it not for the IP the same as I've not really tried any other MMOs ( fear of having to start something over - I prefer single players game when I'm not playing this in that regard ).

[Aeneas_Falco]

 

Ok.

 

In Europe, only TRE and T3-M4 rise above "light" regularly at prime time, and in North America, Shadowlands and JC barely get over "light" at prime time and only Harbinger and Ebon Hawk reliably reach standard regularly.

 

And yes, I know they increased max population numbers by introducing instances, but that doesn't change that actual numbers on fleet even at prime time rarely reach instance cap now, when at peak times it used to be 2 or even 3 instances in better days.

 

 

Fleet population right now, prime time for Europe

Vanjervalis Chain (Ger): 27

Jar'Kai Sword (Ger): 9

T3-M4 (Ger): ~120

TRE (En): 200+

Progenitor (En): 76

TOFN (En): 17

 

Go ahead and tell people on Vanjervalis Chain or TOFN that it only seems so empty because their own guild is dead.

 

That isn't what I said.

 

Here is my full post, rather than the edited fragment of a sentence you quoted that made it seem as if I was referring to server status today:

 

I think part of the issue is that for many players it is hard to see beyond their guild. Someone back in say 2013, sees their once active guild dying, and thinks the same must be true across the entire game despite the fact that server population is at its highest since release.

 

So they log into the forums and post a thread about how the game has died. The player doesn't realize that it is just the natural lifespan of a guild playing out, and that his or her guild has died because it failed to recruit enough new members to replace the old.

 

Notice I was referring to 2013 and not 2016 when I said server population was at its highest since release. In short, I was addressing the End is Nigh threads that have been made over the years and not specifically claims about the state of the game today. People not being able to see beyond their own guilds was one of the reasons why you had threads predicting an imminent demise even when the game was as its most active.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[ImmortalLowlife]

I'm in the same boat - it was "Star Wars" and "Old Republic" that got me into this game. I hated online gaming beyond FPS shooters before this game and never had any intention what so ever of ever trying any of the MMO content. Here I m though years later having done it all ... go figure.

 

Point remains I wouldn't have been here were it not for the IP the same as I've not really tried any other MMOs ( fear of having to start something over - I prefer single players game when I'm not playing this in that regard ).

 

I'm similar to tha homie Menace (except I hate fps... I prefer sports like Madden & NBA 2k, and fighting games like Street fighter, mortal kombat, & wwe). I have no desire to play any other mmo's. But SWTOR is very alt friendly, and I enjoy playing through the majority of the stories. I just got skyrim on my PS4 and even tho I've done it ALL multiple times, I'm still excited to put another 1000+ hours into a game that hasn't had an expansion in how many years?

[JattaGin]

31.12.2013 - the day Swtor's servers will be shut down for good. How often do I have to repeat it? There is absolutely no chance the game could continue beyond this date. You will see when the day came.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

31.12.2013 - the day Swtor's servers will be shut down for good. How often do I have to repeat it? There is absolutely no chance the game could continue beyond this date. You will see when the day came.

 

Wasn't funny the first time.

[Wayshuba]

You bring out a good point, but at the same time, the game isn't doing stellar either.

 

First point, at one point the game was in a lot of trouble. Thus you got F2P and the Cartel Market. This helped to maintain it.

 

Second, it has lot a lot of players. One has only look through these threads for someone who posted a screen shot of the server list from when the game launched compared to now. In addition, back when there were dozens of servers, you sometimes had to wait half and hour to log in because the loads on the servers were frequently heavy. When was the last time any server had a heavy load or any player waited to log in.

 

Any company will always adjust resources (costs) to ensure they still make money. Eventually, however, you reach a point where they are unable to supply the expected content at regular intervals that MMO players need and that will eventually kill any game.

 

With both 4.0 and 5.0 there really was very little content for an "expansion". The monthly episodes were to short, and several not even needed, to warrant releasing in a monthly format other than to try and keep people subbing. With the drop of 5.0, there will have been no new group content (outside of Uprisings) in two years.

 

People should not be expecting much change come January. In the Live Streams they have already mentioned a lot of work they need to do to finish the expansion after it launches (such a tuning the existing group content for the new Veteran (hard) and Master (Nightmare) modes.

 

So, while we may not be at the point where the game is dying, there is little being done to try and grow it or even keep the existing sub base interested to keep subbing. I think 5.0 is going to be a turning point for the current state of the game though.

[jozkopucik]

You bring out a good point, but at the same time, the game isn't doing stellar either.

 

First point, at one point the game was in a lot of trouble. Thus you got F2P and the Cartel Market. This helped to maintain it.

 

Second, it has lot a lot of players. One has only look through these threads for someone who posted a screen shot of the server list from when the game launched compared to now. In addition, back when there were dozens of servers, you sometimes had to wait half and hour to log in because the loads on the servers were frequently heavy. When was the last time any server had a heavy load or any player waited to log in.

 

Any company will always adjust resources (costs) to ensure they still make money. Eventually, however, you reach a point where they are unable to supply the expected content at regular intervals that MMO players need and that will eventually kill any game.

 

With both 4.0 and 5.0 there really was very little content for an "expansion". The monthly episodes were to short, and several not even needed, to warrant releasing in a monthly format other than to try and keep people subbing. With the drop of 5.0, there will have been no new group content (outside of Uprisings) in two years.

 

People should not be expecting much change come January. In the Live Streams they have already mentioned a lot of work they need to do to finish the expansion after it launches (such a tuning the existing group content for the new Veteran (hard) and Master (Nightmare) modes.

 

So, while we may not be at the point where the game is dying, there is little being done to try and grow it or even keep the existing sub base interested to keep subbing. I think 5.0 is going to be a turning point for the current state of the game though.

 

Yup its as I said, the game has its up and downs, thats fine, it should be like that, but when the game is dying, like now, the Devs should act like they did in the past.

 

However they are doing the opposite!! Less and less communication and if, it leaves a lot of questions open. No new content, only story, which will take few hours to complete and thats after 2 years of waiting. A few new fps, which are designed to be "fast" so why even bother??

 

Also, i have been in que for the server once in the years i played swtor, it was when the first 90cc transfers came live and i transferred to TRE from Progenitor.

[t-darko]

I would have never picked up the game if it wasn't star wars. Neither would a lot of people I know, that used to play WoW.

 

Kinda brings on the question; What is star Wars, or more accurate what was the intention with Star Wars; ToR?

Take a look

 

Which ultimately brings on the question; What was this game NOT suppose to be!?

Edited November 15, 2016 by t-darko

[MaximumOwnage]

To be fair to the "game is dying" crowd (whom I have been one of them) right around launch we had 188 US servers alone. So the "game is dying" crowd technically have been accurate. The "game is dead" folks are almost correct. If Harbinger dies and nothing is done in the way of a mega server or server mergers than the game isn't dying, the game is dead. And that's not open for opinion at that point. That will simply be the way it is.

 

Harbinger is holding this game up at this point. You could argue it is SWTORs life support right now. Anything happens to Harbingers population in a negative way will ultimately determine the fate of SWTOR. Like it or not, that's just the way it is at this point.

[Kingsbount]

Nah.

Game is not dying.

 

EAware is killing it.

And it will succeed at some point.

 

If they will not take players responses seriously - game will become desert.

Yeah. It will drag some new people... Will they stay for long? Im highly doubt.

[MaximumOwnage]

Nah.

Game is not dying.

 

EAware is killing it.

And it will succeed at some point.

 

If they will not take players responses seriously - game will become desert.

Yeah. It will drag some new people... Will they stay for long? Im highly doubt.

 

They need to close down the ghost town servers immediately. If a "new" player tries this game on any of those servers, they will not be around long. And removing the server status option even makes it more imperative that they shut them down ASAP. Like yesterday this needed to be done.