Please DO nerf HM Flashpoints or take them out of DvL events

[VegasTheLost]

... so I had 2 tanks 2 healers 2 mdps and 2 rdps on each faction).

 

That OCD, right?

 

Infact which is quicker, writing a post on forums about nerfs and tough enemies or this:

1. read an entire discipline tree

2. move around quickbars so rotation buttons are bunched up in a natural order (my sniper is 3, f, 2, 2, ,f ,ctrl+e, ctrl+r, 4, f, 3, f, e, 3, f, 6.....etc)

3. run a couple heroics to polish it out a bit

4. listen to the guy in the group who writes "I main the spec you use, you should do x before y because of proc z"

 

Yep, pretty much all it takes to get going for HM FP.

[godsuxx]

DvL is goddamn cancer!

[WARCHILDvolk]

The only thing i have a problem with is i already have one of each class this mean's Jedi sent. / guardian ........sage/shadow ..... and so on Republic and Imperial Sides totaling to 12. we are only aloud 13 on each server and the one's I have got stuff you can no longer get like my sent. has the Sith Executioner's light saber from the old maelstom prison drops also including the Sith Battler's Chest piece. So in other words I cant delete this guy or I lose the stuff so why not Raise how many we can have as a subscriber so we can make these new class for the light /dark event and not lose our stuff. They are not cartel market items so we cant unlock them. I don't mind doing each class over again but I want to keep my original guys because of the removed items he has. The other thing is why isn't the stuff unlocking in collections from the light/dark crates I got a item and bought the rest off the GTN to make a set and t still says I am mission them items hope you will fix this whats the sense of getting it if we cant complete the set and unlock it in collections. Edited October 25, 2016 by WARCHILDvolk

[mrwayn]

4) Don't Bolster everyone in a tactical to 65, but level sync higher players to the level of the FP like in the solo modes. And reintroduce level requirements for tacticals. Meaning, you unlock additional FP's while leveling up, but higher levels can queue for lower levels and get synced down. This way you kinda make sure noone gets into FP's that spoiler the story and also no one gets into something, their level and current skillset is simply not made for. For axample, a level 28 can queue for BT, Hammer Station, Athiss and Cad. Once they reach, say, 35, Bording party is added to their queue. And so on. a 65 on the other hand can queue for anything.

 

While that might not be a bad idea per se, I'm afraid it would come with a serious disadvantage. If that system would be implemented you would get Hammer Station, Athiss and Mando-Raiders 90% of the time and maybe a rare Boardingparty/ Foundry or Cad. You would however never or close to never get any of the SoR, the Czerka or even the Ilum ones even if you are max lvl, because that would require your whole group to be lvl 50+. And since TFP are most often used to level up quickly it is much more likely to get at least one low lvl player in your gf-queue. I don't exactly do TFP's on a daily basis anymore, but on top of my head I can't remember ever getting a group where everybody was 60-65. And I suppose doing Hammer Station 3 times a day gets old quickly.

[ThrakhathSpawn]

There's only one problem with HM FPs that can be resolved for the most part with one change in the game. Bolster doesn't work well enough to allow level 50s to queue up and beat them.

 

If it was truly intended for HM FPs to work for level 50s, then the Bolster should be able to deal with the worst case scenario: 4x level 50, with sub-148 gear.

 

On top of that... people should get familiar with FPs first, queuing up for HM FPs is just plain stupid. Players new to the game shouldn't queue for them and BW shouldn't allow them to queue until at least max level.

 

Its hard to do it with level 50 players, because right now, they are leveling up past it having levels gained by the last boss. The only time I've done it with level 50's was when I had f2p in my group for a HM FP, and they are level 50 capped.

 

For heal checks, I'd say second boss of Manaan, last boss of Blood Hunt, and last boss of Tython.

 

Actually, last boss of Blood Hunt is a tank check, I first did it as a tank and learned a few things in controlling the boss as related to damage. Any time I do it as a healer, and have a tank that plays it properly, very little healing needs to go out, and I'm doing a lot of off dps as a healer.

 

Similar perhaps to how tanks stack endurance for HM DP because of driving thrust, when driving thrust can be completely avoided based on how your tanks move and act. Its either a heal/meatbag test, or it suddenly becomes easy if tanked in a way that avoids the damage going out in the first place.

Edited October 26, 2016 by ThrakhathSpawn

[Torvai]

Similar perhaps to how tanks stack endurance for HM DP because of driving thrust, when driving thrust can be completely avoided based on how your tanks move and act. Its either a heal/meatbag test, or it suddenly becomes easy if tanked in a way that avoids the damage going out in the first place.

While it's way off topic, how would you avoid driving thrust through movement?

 

While that might not be a bad idea per se, I'm afraid it would come with a serious disadvantage. If that system would be implemented you would get Hammer Station, Athiss and Mando-Raiders 90% of the time and maybe a rare Boardingparty/ Foundry or Cad. You would however never or close to never get any of the SoR, the Czerka or even the Ilum ones even if you are max lvl, because that would require your whole group to be lvl 50+. And since TFP are most often used to level up quickly it is much more likely to get at least one low lvl player in your gf-queue. I don't exactly do TFP's on a daily basis anymore, but on top of my head I can't remember ever getting a group where everybody was 60-65. And I suppose doing Hammer Station 3 times a day gets old quickly.

 

Yeah, that's the downside. But more preferrable imo than landing in Manaan or Blood Hunt as a complete dps only sub 20 group

And you always can uncheck certain FP's if you don't want to do them

Edited October 26, 2016 by Torvai

[mrwayn]

Yeah, that's the downside. But more preferrable imo than landing in Manaan or Blood Hunt as a complete dps only sub 20 group

Well, personally I would rather have more variaty and the odd fail-group in between than having to run the same 3 Fp for a smaller chance of a fail-group, but I can see why some people might have a different opinion on the matter.

 

And you always can uncheck certain FP's if you don't want to do them

That is true of course. But it is also true for a low-lvl player who don't want to end up in BH

[Deaconik]

Well, personally I would rather have more variaty and the odd fail-group in between than having to run the same 3 Fp for a smaller chance of a fail-group, but I can see why some people might have a different opinion on the matter.

 

 

 

That is true of course. But it is also true for a low-lvl player who don't want to end up in BH

 

Low level player doesn't want to end in BH because there's the highest risk/gain ratio out of all FP and the lowest time/gain ratio. It has high difficulty and almost none champions/gold mobs. Meaning you gain experience mostly for bosses(high difficulty). And the boss fights are not exactly the shortest out there(Shae and her HP pool).

[nepochop]

Yes, its true that the change did benefit the quing system, but still, it does have more cons and pros. Its true that people mostly did the first fps on SM, Hammer Station, Esseless, Athiss etc. With the insame leveling speed now you get to lvl 50 before doing 4 flashpoints!!

 

However, the system now messes up the story for new players completely. I would rather have the old system with less que pops than the current one where all levels go for all tactical fps!! If ppl want they have the solo option!

[Tsetso]

While it's way off topic, how would you avoid driving thrust through movement?

While i know that i can shroud it, and have seen the theories that it only goes if active tank is too far from him, i've actually seen him doing it when both tanks were in melee range. So if there is a sure way to prevent it i'd very much like to learn it.

[xkcurtisx]

Why would anyone want to do them?

 

1- There is virtually nobody doing them. Queus are dead and no enticement to group up.

2- The few players that do them are NEW. Most do not understand the mechanics.

3- It is not a challenge but an impossible task. Why in the world one would want to go through strenuous research to find out what is the best strategy. Save those for OPs perhaps.

This is entertainment and NOT a thesis project. No other MMOs have the word HARD tight to an impossibility. If you want to have a higher level than hard...why not use the word "ELITE" perhaps?

4- Guilds dont do much of them. Yeah I tried myself... and most of them do OPS rather than HM flashpoints.

 

An objective should be hard...yet "obtainable". Most of the new players you are trying to sub won't be able to "know" these tricks of the trade or even won't have deep pockets to have higher gear.

 

It needs lots of re-development and incentives better for those who want to participate on them.

 

they are called hardmode for a reason and not tactical. They do not need a nerf. If majority of the players are incapable of doing them then the answer is to remove the objective from the event. Not change the flashpoints them self.

[TBDNicodemus]

they are called hardmode for a reason and not tactical. They do not need a nerf. If majority of the players are incapable of doing them then the answer is to remove the objective from the event. Not change the flashpoints them self.

 

HM = HARD MODE, it shouldn't be easy, it shouldn't be with out mechanics it should be a challenge requiring you to know the fight and preform the mechanics to succeed. DvL is meant to be scaling in difficulty, you don't get everything just because you participated you must work to win.

 

This thread should be deleted and anyone that remakes banned from posting. Which isn't harsh imho because instead of crying nerf they should be posting about please help with "this" flash point. they should be on fleet asking for assistance... joining a guild with more then the 3 people they RP with, so they can help a guild that will help them.

 

nothing in this game needs to be nerfed... almost everything is soloable let a lone 4 manned by people that know their class and are geared for it.

[wadecounty]

 

 

 

Actually, last boss of Blood Hunt is a tank check, I first did it as a tank and learned a few things in controlling the boss as related to damage. Any time I do it as a healer, and have a tank that plays it properly, very little healing needs to go out, and I'm doing a lot of off dps as a healer.

 

Similar perhaps to how tanks stack endurance for HM DP because of driving thrust, when driving thrust can be completely avoided based on how your tanks move and act. Its either a heal/meatbag test, or it suddenly becomes easy if tanked in a way that avoids the damage going out in the first place.

I'm interested in both of these.

 

For Shae, I had a friend who pointed out you could outrange her flamethrower I believe it was, are there other things that can be avoided/mitigated? I tank her straight up typically, then with the heated platforms I just hold her with taunts and don't even bother getting into melee range to give melee more room to attack her without risking being cleaved by her flamethrower or DFA.

 

Also not sure how to beat driving thrust besides knowing exactly when it is coming and popping a cooldown?

 

Depending on how complicated/obscure the strats you're suggesting are, I'm not sure I'd label them tank checks so much as neat tricks to make the fights easier. When I say heal check or dps check, I mean the person has to actually reliably perform their heal or dps rotation, not do anything above and beyond that (which is more of a player check in general). For a tank check, I'd probably define it as ability to hold threat reliably in the first 30 seconds of a fight, ability to promptly swap with another tank, and ability to properly position bosses (but again this one is really vague, since proper positioning is highly variable fight to fight).

[wildantics]

Sorry I didn't read the whole thread so it may have been suggested already.

 

All you need more support one other player + 2 OP comps.

 

Unless the HM has specific anti-companion technology (sav-rak lol) it will probably be waaaaay easier then 4 real people.

 

Tank comp... Make them attack first and they hold aggro pretty well... Kill mob, rocket boost and tank comp is back to 100% and all CD reset... And don't forget to use that heroic moment...

 

Rinse repeat

 

*and for the record I'm mildly glad BW has created a incentive that encourages some players to try higher difficulty content... ^_^

[Ayakin_Solaris]

they are called hardmode for a reason and not tactical. They do not need a nerf. If majority of the players are incapable of doing them then the answer is to remove the objective from the event. Not change the flashpoints them self.

 

^^ This.

 

When something can be solo'd then you can't really say that it needs a nerf .And yes, someone has solo'd most of the HM FPs and yes, it was after the companion nerf (and includes Battle of Rishi), albeit its taken them a long time to do each - most of the kill videos are 45 mins-1 hour long and that is sped up significantly!

[KendraP]

I will say that in general I avoid doing BH/rishi/etc HM. The rewards simply are not worth the time devoted to getting a group to complete them. I brought my DvL sage healer to the BH I did for the event. Hes mostly 216 geared and about half augmented. It was a group of all guildies. We succeded but I was pulling 8.9k effective heals on the last boss. The most I've done in a HM op is about 7k. Granted the few NiM bosses I've done I was tanking, so i didnt really see the heaing output there. But still the point stands. Why deal with needing that sort of output all the time? I got the achievement, so I'm basically done with BH or rishi unless I have an unlucky queue pop for the random daily. Do I think it needs nerfing? Maybe. I enjoy a challenge once in a while so I'm fine as it is. Honestly the tactical version without a healer is more annoying as the 2 dudes that knock you off have the kolto stations near the edge. The best solution would be for HM BH/rishi/etc to give better rewards than hammer station/athiss/etc. Otherwise why would I bother doing the harder ones to get the same reward.

[BlackSilverRoar]

Why would anyone want to do them?

 

1- There is virtually nobody doing them. Queus are dead and no enticement to group up.

2- The few players that do them are NEW. Most do not understand the mechanics.

3- It is not a challenge but an impossible task. Why in the world one would want to go through strenuous research to find out what is the best strategy. Save those for OPs perhaps.

This is entertainment and NOT a thesis project. No other MMOs have the word HARD tight to an impossibility. If you want to have a higher level than hard...why not use the word "ELITE" perhaps?

4- Guilds dont do much of them. Yeah I tried myself... and most of them do OPS rather than HM flashpoints.

 

An objective should be hard...yet "obtainable". Most of the new players you are trying to sub won't be able to "know" these tricks of the trade or even won't have deep pockets to have higher gear.

 

It needs lots of re-development and incentives better for those who want to participate on them.

 

 

^Everything you've said is pretty right on. My guild mates and I have been playing since Beta and we're so burnt out on flashpoints: newer ones are too hard and too little reward. It only appeals to the tiny NiM community at this point. My mates aren't going to bother with Legendary tier on principle: they don't support it and that tier is RIDICULOUS. WHOEVER THOUGHT OF ADDING HM FLASHPOINTS TO THE DARK VS LIGHT EVENT SHOULD BE FIRED. NO, FIRED, REALLY.

 

They [should] rename the newer hard modes ELITE MODE, as it's clearly catered towards active guilds/ raiders with great gear and teamspeak.

Pugging it gets hilarious fast and is a bad joke. You're right, it is impossible to pug the last tier; most that que are newer players: HORRID EXPERIENCE.

 

 

This event is clearly elitist.

 

 

It has given a lot of people a lingering bad taste in their mouths. It's just a testament to elitists who lack a social life; Some event (*snickers.)

Edited October 27, 2016 by Willjb

[xkcurtisx]

^Everything you've said is pretty right on. My guild mates and I have been playing since Beta and we're so burnt out on flashpoints: newer ones are too hard and too little reward. It only appeals to the tiny NiM community at this point. My mates aren't going to bother with Legendary tier on principle: they don't support it and that tier is RIDICULOUS. WHOEVER THOUGHT OF ADDING HM FLASHPOINTS TO THE DARK VS LIGHT EVENT SHOULD BE FIRED. NO, FIRED, REALLY.

 

They [should] rename the newer hard modes ELITE MODE, as it's clearly catered towards active guilds/ raiders with great gear and teamspeak.

Pugging it gets hilarious fast and is a bad joke. You're right, it is impossible to pug the last tier; most that que are newer players: HORRID EXPERIENCE.

 

 

This event is clearly elitist.

 

 

It has given a lot of people a lingering bad taste in their mouths. It's just a testament to elitists who lack a social life; Some event (*snickers.)

 

1 Nightmare community?! - no such thing exists anymore.

2 Appeals to them? - no, it does not. They would rather do ops.

3 i did all the HM fps via groupfinder without any issues, no ts not with guild or anything.

 

So it is more of a you problem than a game problem.

[mysidehun]

^Everything you've said is pretty right on. My guild mates and I have been playing since Beta and we're so burnt out on flashpoints: newer ones are too hard and too little reward. It only appeals to the tiny NiM community at this point. My mates aren't going to bother with Legendary tier on principle: they don't support it and that tier is RIDICULOUS. WHOEVER THOUGHT OF ADDING HM FLASHPOINTS TO THE DARK VS LIGHT EVENT SHOULD BE FIRED. NO, FIRED, REALLY.

 

They [should] rename the newer hard modes ELITE MODE, as it's clearly catered towards active guilds/ raiders with great gear and teamspeak.

Pugging it gets hilarious fast and is a bad joke. You're right, it is impossible to pug the last tier; most that que are newer players: HORRID EXPERIENCE.

 

 

This event is clearly elitist.

 

 

It has given a lot of people a lingering bad taste in their mouths. It's just a testament to elitists who lack a social life; Some event (*snickers.)

 

As a solo player, I find this interesting. Ever since I started playing this game, I never joined a guild and never had BiS gear. And yet, I have done all hard mode flashpoints more than ten times without being carried. I also completed Legendary tier without major issues. So am I an elitist raider who is among the best dps on the server, if not in the world?

 

Just because you and many players have bad luck with gf, doesn't mean that the difficulity level in the game is higher than it should be. You don't have to be in a raiding guild with TS, best players on the server, BiS gear just to complete a hm flashpoint.

 

Hard mode flashpoints aren't meant for 'elitists' or hardcore raiders. It is meant for any player that has the general idea about gearing, their spec, the fights etc and have fun doing hard content. Adding it to DvL wasn't a good idea imo,but thats just my personal take on the matter.

 

If someone has a problem doing something, either reexamine the way they are doing it or just don't do it. I wouldn't mind having some of items that drop from Nim ops, but since I am incapable to produce top of the line dps , I don't ask for it to be removed, nerfed or made into solo just to get them.

 

Asking for a nerf just to have something or because you can't do it is meaningless - it is hard mode, it is meant to be hard and not doable by people who lack the means to do it. Just be content with what you have and can get and let others have what they can get.

[xkcurtisx]

As a solo player, I find this interesting. Ever since I started playing this game, I never joined a guild and never had BiS gear. And yet, I have done all hard mode flashpoints more than ten times without being carried. I also completed Legendary tier without major issues. So am I an elitist raider who is among the best dps on the server, if not in the world?

 

Just because you and many players have bad luck with gf, doesn't mean that the difficulity level in the game is higher than it should be. You don't have to be in a raiding guild with TS, best players on the server, BiS gear just to complete a hm flashpoint.

 

Hard mode flashpoints aren't meant for 'elitists' or hardcore raiders. It is meant for any player that has the general idea about gearing, their spec, the fights etc and have fun doing hard content. Adding it to DvL wasn't a good idea imo,but thats just my personal take on the matter.

 

If someone has a problem doing something, either reexamine the way they are doing it or just don't do it. I wouldn't mind having some of items that drop from Nim ops, but since I am incapable to produce top of the line dps , I don't ask for it to be removed, nerfed or made into solo just to get them.

 

Asking for a nerf just to have something or because you can't do it is meaningless - it is hard mode, it is meant to be hard and not doable by people who lack the means to do it. Just be content with what you have and can get and let others have what they can get.

 

i like this guy.

[lcharas]

Not directly related to the topic but as apparantly my hm flashpoint videos keep being mentioned, I got to correct something: After the first vids took forever, I tried my best to keep the rest short - hence most are below 30 minutes.

Anyway - thanks for pointing them out. I recorded them for that very reason (to prove the difficulty isn't hard) and obviously I enjoy people acknowledging my work.

[LudhaninRolgge]

 

It's getting harder to sympathize with some of you that continue to be obtuse about the struggles some people are having. I agree nerfing is not the answer but rubbing people's noses in how awesome you are isn't the answer either.

 

Some coordinated groups of players who have done the content dozens upon dozens of times and have intimate knowledge of their class and ability regardless of gear does not equal the majority of the game's population.

 

This group did something naked THEREFORE every single person in the game should be able to do exactly the same thing or they're just simply retarded. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.........

 

 

I'm pretty sure that was not what he meant and that was really not what I meant when I mentionned my experience. But the fact is that if an average PuG with old tier gear, a raid group naked or even a fully geared single person can defeat a FP made for 4 people with on-tier gear is, for me at least, more than enough to prove that the problem is not the FP themselves.

Now, as I already did a lot of time in game, I'm not against helping people trying to learn how to defeat certain encounter and am more than happy to spend hours wiping with people who seem willing to learn till we defeat said encounter. But what really grind my gear is people crying for nerfs. I was once a new player and totally understand the frustration you get when you can't defeat content, but the difference between them and me is that I tried to become a better player instead of whinning on the forum. The result is, I defeated the content and they didn't. So, once again, the problem is not the FP themselves.

 

For this, my solution would be to bring the other FPs to SoR levels. Plain and simple, they labeled as Hard Mode, so all of them should be on the same level and that level should be fine on BH/BoR/LI/Kaon level IMO. No nerf, but buff the others. I'm not trying to be an elitist here, but there is nothing in the flashpoints that cannot be done whit the skillset we have. All it takes is just read the tooltips and one can do that during leveling. And frankly if someone is interested in this game there is no excuse to not now the class at cap level. Maybe it's just me, but during leveling when I get a new skill I read the tooltip and try out that skill, what it does and with this I have a general idea regarding when should I use this. No need to read anything external for this. And with that said, if someone wants to do HM FPs, is it really much to have a general understanding regarding the class? Because all it takes to beat the HM FPs is to know the class. This game is not a rocket science.

 

Uhm, it turned out to be a rant, sorry about this. Zerileth, it is not aimed to you, trust me.

 

This, so much this.

[Zerileth]

For this, my solution would be to bring the other FPs to SoR levels. Plain and simple, they labeled as Hard Mode, so all of them should be on the same level and that level should be fine on BH/BoR/LI/Kaon level IMO. No nerf, but buff the others. I'm not trying to be an elitist here, but there is nothing in the flashpoints that cannot be done whit the skillset we have. All it takes is just read the tooltips and one can do that during leveling. And frankly if someone is interested in this game there is no excuse to not now the class at cap level. Maybe it's just me, but during leveling when I get a new skill I read the tooltip and try out that skill, what it does and with this I have a general idea regarding when should I use this. No need to read anything external for this. And with that said, if someone wants to do HM FPs, is it really much to have a general understanding regarding the class? Because all it takes to beat the HM FPs is to know the class. This game is not a rocket science.

 

Uhm, it turned out to be a rant, sorry about this. Zerileth, it is not aimed to you, trust me.

 

Ok so let's pretend we do this. Let's buff all other HM Fps to "SOR level." And what do we type in the queue to the general pug player? Please re-read your ability skills and get into a Guild so you can successfully complete the next HM FP that randomly pops? The average pug player that doesn't have or want a guild isn't going to do this.

 

So, let's take HM out of queues right? What's the point. You're saying everybody who goes into a HM queue can pug the FPs as long as they know the mechs and have read the abilities. Again, the general "pugger" is not going to do this. I personally read them too and learn the mechanics. My point is these are harder to pug or almost impossible (please read next sentence before taking out of context) to pug than the non-SORs. "Impossible to me because I'm not going to re-queue, and re-queue and re-queue trying to fish for that perfect group of 4 that have all read the abilities and know the mechanics.

 

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. But back to my first paragraph... Let's buff them all. Now you have far less players of general public stature que'ing... ( "Well I'm fine with that as I don't want their kind que'ing anyway" -- sarcastic response to make a point ) so now there's barely any popping for HM fps. SOOOOO... get rid of the HM queues and only those that have guilds and "read" the abiliies can do the HM FPs. Fine. Let's just pick which direction we're going here. But if we go this route, either take it out of DvL or say... " You will most likely need a guild to finish these now and queueing for them is a waste of time. Believe me: I waste plenty of my time doing stuff I like that others wouldn't.

 

Again, my "beef" here is the SORs need to be lined up with the other HM Fps. Is it BW's goal to make it harder with less queue pops for fewer players? Does that help the game having more content for fewer players? You may want that, but I don't think as a company trying to get more players and more money want that. The general "pugger" is not going to read the abilities to "your level." So for someone like me who can play them at a harder level but doesn't want to be in a guild can't pug HM anymore?

 

Just having a convo.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Zerileth

[Tsetso]

Ok so let's pretend we do this. Let's buff all other HM Fps to "SOR level." And what do we type in the queue to the general pug player? Please re-read your ability skills and get into a Guild so you can successfully complete the next HM FP that randomly pops? The average pug player that doesn't have or want a guild isn't going to do this.

 

So, let's take HM out of queues right? What's the point. You're saying everybody who goes into a HM queue can pug the FPs as long as they know the mechs and have read the abilities. Again, the general "pugger" is not going to do this. I personally read them too and learn the mechanics. My point is these are harder to pug or almost impossible (please read next sentence before taking out of context) to pug than the non-SORs. "Impossible to me because I'm not going to re-queue, and re-queue and re-queue trying to fish for that perfect group of 4 that have all read the abilities and know the mechanics.

 

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. But back to my first paragraph... Let's buff them all. Now you have far less players of general public stature que'ing... ( "Well I'm fine with that as I don't want their kind que'ing anyway" -- sarcastic response to make a point ) so now there's barely any popping for HM fps. SOOOOO... get rid of the HM queues and only those that have guilds and "read" the abiliies can do the HM FPs. Fine. Let's just pick which direction we're going here. But if we go this route, either take it out of DvL or say... " You will most likely need a guild to finish these now and queueing for them is a waste of time. Believe me: I waste plenty of my time doing stuff I like that others wouldn't.

 

Again, my "beef" here is the SORs need to be lined up with the other HM Fps. Is it BW's goal to make it harder with less queue pops for fewer players? Does that help the game having more content for fewer players? You may want that, but I don't think as a company trying to get more players and more money want that. The general "pugger" is not going to read the abilities to "your level." So for someone like me who can play them at a harder level but doesn't want to be in a guild can't pug HM anymore?

 

Just having a convo.

 

The other option is to nerf all HMFPs to say Black Talon and introduce NiM flashpoints which are at SoR difficulty level or even above it.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Ok so let's pretend we do this. Let's buff all other HM Fps to "SOR level." And what do we type in the queue to the general pug player? Please re-read your ability skills and get into a Guild so you can successfully complete the next HM FP that randomly pops? The average pug player that doesn't have or want a guild isn't going to do this.

 

So, let's take HM out of queues right? What's the point. You're saying everybody who goes into a HM queue can pug the FPs as long as they know the mechs and have read the abilities. Again, the general "pugger" is not going to do this. I personally read them too and learn the mechanics. My point is these are harder to pug or almost impossible (please read next sentence before taking out of context) to pug than the non-SORs. "Impossible to me because I'm not going to re-queue, and re-queue and re-queue trying to fish for that perfect group of 4 that have all read the abilities and know the mechanics.

 

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. But back to my first paragraph... Let's buff them all. Now you have far less players of general public stature que'ing... ( "Well I'm fine with that as I don't want their kind que'ing anyway" -- sarcastic response to make a point ) so now there's barely any popping for HM fps. SOOOOO... get rid of the HM queues and only those that have guilds and "read" the abiliies can do the HM FPs. Fine. Let's just pick which direction we're going here. But if we go this route, either take it out of DvL or say... " You will most likely need a guild to finish these now and queueing for them is a waste of time. Believe me: I waste plenty of my time doing stuff I like that others wouldn't.

 

Again, my "beef" here is the SORs need to be lined up with the other HM Fps. Is it BW's goal to make it harder with less queue pops for fewer players? Does that help the game having more content for fewer players? You may want that, but I don't think as a company trying to get more players and more money want that. The general "pugger" is not going to read the abilities to "your level." So for someone like me who can play them at a harder level but doesn't want to be in a guild can't pug HM anymore?

 

Just having a convo.

 

Would you pug DP or DF HM or even Ravagers (you don't want to pug Master and Blaster or even Torque with the average pug) if it was in the GF ? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't. HM means Hard Mode. It means what it's supposed to mean. That's the same FP than SM, but harder, more challenging. But as it is now, everything pre-SoR is far too easy, mostly because we have new abilities we didn't have when the FP were at tier (and also because they were really badly scaled, but that's another problem).

 

Now, regarding DvL, and I assume you're thinking about the achievement. Do you cry because you're not able to have gatecrusher ? Or because you have to do a freaking metric ton of pvp game to have man hunter ?

Probably not, because you understand that everything in this life need a certain amount of investment to be obtainable. That's the same thing for DvL, you're not entitled to have each and every achievement just because you play the game. You have to work for it. And in an MMO, it also means that your partner need to work for it.

 

Finally, you're being over dramatic with your suggestion to remove HM FP from the queue so that only a handful of player could do them. There is a simple fix to most the wipes people are enduring, make levelling challenging again. Force a player to use DCD, interrupt, don't stand in stupid and trust me, they'll remember it. Sure it won't make the old players who want a quick levelling happy, but you can't have everything. You either have new players that know how to play or you have a quick levelling. And even if HM FP were made harder and put out of the queue, there would probably be more people trying them than now because HM/NiM raiders would try them. I know I would and most people of my former guilds would because those type of raiders don't do content for gear, they mostly do it because for the challenge. Make them complicated, and I'm not saying HM FP should be NiM hard, but something you have to work for and a lot of raiders that didn't do them would do it because when you're raiding 5 or 6 times a week, gear is irrelevant. Blood Hunt pre-nerf 3.0 was a real pleasure because it was challenging. Same goes for the bonus boss of Battle of Rishi. So a buff to all HM FP is definately the best option.

 

So with everything I've said you've probably noticed the problem is not that the FP are too hard it's that new player didn't learn how to play. So you have new player thinking they're the best because the game made them think that way since levelling was so easy that they queue for HM FP without having the level to defeat them. There are simple solution for this, but and I quote "I don't think as a company trying to get more players and more money want that".

 

The other option is to nerf all HMFPs to say Black Talon and introduce NiM flashpoints which are at SoR difficulty level or even above it.

 

That's the best option I think. I really hope the new Master Mode will also apply to FP. That would solve a lot of problem (even if I'm pretty sure a lot of people would come on the forum to cry for nerfs).