Please DO nerf HM Flashpoints or take them out of DvL events

[TheRandomno]

That's the best option I think. I really hope the new Master Mode will also apply to FP.

 

It will, but Hard Mode is being renamed Master Mode.

[Khevar]

It will, but Hard Mode is being renamed Master Mode.

Wait, do you mean that Master Mode versions of classic Flashpoints are being made?

 

I thought it was only for Uprisings?

[Zerileth]

but and I quote "I don't think as a company trying to get more players and more money want that".

 

That's the best option I think. I really hope the new Master Mode will also apply to FP. That would solve a lot of problem (even if I'm pretty sure a lot of people would come on the forum to cry for nerfs).

 

Ok... I admit (finance major here) yeah I am thinking like a company. So therefore I'm not being over dramatic about removing HM FPs from the queue. If the majority of the players left don't bother with HM FPs because Bee Dub has increased the "hardness" level of ALL fps to SOR fps, why bother with HM queue? For the 30 players ( sarcasm) left who want a brutal challenge and dying 6 times in a FP is fun)?

 

Let's stop for a minute here. Re-do the game or rewind it to previous version to "teach" new players isn't going to happen. It's call reality ( no offense;)). BeeDub is dumbing down the game to get it ready for the 3 interns that will run it in maintenance mode in a year or so ( no I have no references, chill).

 

So the other option is to create a 3rd tier Nightmare mode for HM fps... Yeah that ain't gonna happen either. We have a better shot of getting more social titles before any adjustments to flashpoints will ever happen again.

 

Either scale down the 5 SOR fps ( Rakata's fine) to match the others or remove the queue or the daily achievement. Let the "elites" have it. They don't need a queue. Wouldn't do any good as there wouldn't be enough population queue with the current rewards to simply die 5 times. Waste of very valuable RL time. IMO.

 

Let's keep this civil.

[TheRandomno]

Wait, do you mean that Master Mode versions of classic Flashpoints are being made?

 

I thought it was only for Uprisings?

 

No, Hard Mode is being renamed like I said. There's no Veteran mode for FPs.

[VegasTheLost]

Just having a convo.

 

Sorry for not quoting the whole stuff.

 

I get what you're saying. And you're right in the aspect of q times. However, we're talking about hard modes, the names are a great indicator. This cannot be done easily, but it does not require any more that is not reachable by knowing the class(DPS checks). Also if someone's purpose is to play dress up and interrior design, than clearly HM FP is not for those. And if this person comes up to the forums to complain that said content needs to be nerfed, because reasons, that is messed up yo. Those who are interested however, and really wan't to do these content can't do it, and I truly stand by my comment: read the tooltips and practice. Can't do that, don't do HM FP. Plain and simple. Also I would realy welcome seeing story mode FPs coming back, tuned down, and level scaling the players to the FP level. With this people could learn how to tank/heal/dps, the content would not be punishing and it would be relevant a.k.a. planetary level sync. Nerf is just not the answer.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Ok... I admit (finance major here) yeah I am thinking like a company. So therefore I'm not being over dramatic about removing HM FPs from the queue. If the majority of the players left don't bother with HM FPs because Bee Dub has increased the "hardness" level of ALL fps to SOR fps, why bother with HM queue? For the 30 players ( sarcasm) left who want a brutal challenge and dying 6 times in a FP is fun)?

 

Let's stop for a minute here. Re-do the game or rewind it to previous version to "teach" new players isn't going to happen. It's call reality ( no offense;)). BeeDub is dumbing down the game to get it ready for the 3 interns that will run it in maintenance mode in a year or so ( no I have no references, chill).

 

So the other option is to create a 3rd tier Nightmare mode for HM fps... Yeah that ain't gonna happen either. We have a better shot of getting more social titles before any adjustments to flashpoints will ever happen again.

 

Either scale down the 5 SOR fps ( Rakata's fine) to match the others or remove the queue or the daily achievement. Let the "elites" have it. They don't need a queue. Wouldn't do any good as there wouldn't be enough population queue with the current rewards to simply die 5 times. Waste of very valuable RL time. IMO.

 

Let's keep this civil.

 

I understand your reasoning and I pretty much agree that it will never happen, but as a marketing major myself, I can see how it's bad for the game. You want good players to advertise your game for you for free with streams, youtube videos, guides and so on. But the problem is, most good players left the game because the lack of content, I'm not the best player in the world, but even I as an ex middle level NiM raider left the game. This had more consequences than a lower population. Who is there to teach newer players if the good left ? Other new players ? This result in the lowering of the average skill level which can reflect a bad image to people watching streams. I mean, it's not enjoyable to watch a 4h wipefest on a boss.

I'm sure as a finance major you know about the law of Pareto. It can apply for SWTOR. Sure, less than 10% of the players would ever take part in a NiM raid, sure less than 10% of the player would ever try a NiM level FP, but those 10% of players are the one that wrote guides, look at Dulfy all the guides there are written by those 10%. Those 10% stream their NiM kills and are attracting new players. When I started to play this game, I spent hours watching streams of SevenFaced, TCchief and other world class players and I'm pretty sure most of the players can relate.

It can seem like a big investment for almost nothing, but it would have a bigger impact that you would thing. Now, seeing that competent marketing, financial and other things managers at EAware don't want to make the investment really lead me to believe that the game is going in maintenance mode in a year or so.

[Eriamea]

I don't get it: why remove HM FP from queue? At worse have a different category for the top tier FP ( as it was before 4.0). Why would players investing time in learning to play the game not be able to get their daily reward for more difficult content?

 

It is the same thing with the gearing change: before, gearing a toon in top gear was part of progression, a mean to allow the group to work towards getting the most difficult NIM bosses down. In addition to gearing people had to know their rotation and ops mechanics. It also took some effort to get the best gear in the past (like doing df-dp NIM or TOS and Ravagers HM). Now , with the 5.0 announcements, it is all inverted, who cares about progression, learning to play the game: the ultimate goal is to get the gear...anyway since 3.0 no one needs gear for sm ops, tacticals or HM FPs (save some basics for BOR and BH).

Edited October 30, 2016 by Eriamea

[Drake_Averrod]

Instead of "Nerf SoR HM FPs" people should make threads called "make the game teach me better". Granted the difficulty level between different HMFPs is huge. That doesn't mean however that any nerfs are in order. There should always be a little bit of difference in difficulty between different FPs. Some should even be made more difficult.

 

The SoR Flashpoints are not too hard. As a matter of fact, I would describe the tactics for Bloodhunt HM as follows: "Don't stand in aoe. dps boss, dps adds, dps boss, rinse and repeat until dead". The problem is the lack of skill in too many players. Not gear, not tactics, simply skill.

 

Some players get the skill themselves. Many don't. So what we should be thinking about is how can the game teach them without it feeling forced or tedious. Making the leveling experience more difficult will not help the people who are at max level. So there needs to be some kind of a mandatory passway that teaches this minimum amount of skill without being a gamestopper.

 

In the past some people suggested some kind of mandatory trial that needs to be completed in order to do HMs in the first place. While I am not 100% for it, something like it should come along the way. somewhere.....somehow. Ideally it wouldn't be noticed as such.

[nepochop]

Guys, what is for sure is that after 5.0 noone will touch HM fps anymore since there will be Uprisings. Now Uprisings will give the most CXP in the game, so everyone will be spamming them and the instances will probably break the game (but there wont be so many players in game).

 

So my advice, if you want to do HM FPS get the achievments for them now to be done with it, since the ques wont pop after 5.0 of course if you dont get comparable CXP for it.

[Tsetso]

Guys, what is for sure is that after 5.0 noone will touch HM fps anymore since there will be Uprisings. Now Uprisings will give the most CXP in the game, so everyone will be spamming them and the instances will probably break the game (but there wont be so many players in game).

 

So my advice, if you want to do HM FPS get the achievments for them now to be done with it, since the ques wont pop after 5.0 of course if you dont get comparable CXP for it.

 

That is 100% true. BWA can't miss the chance to further bias their metrics and show EA that uprisings are the most popular activity in the game.

[nepochop]

That is 100% true. BWA can't miss the chance to further bias their metrics and show EA that uprisings are the most popular activity in the game.

 

Heh yeah, typical Bioware, will "force" people into the stuff. Give achievements for Uprsiings, Give special rewards for Uprisings, Give most CXP for Uprisings etc. Only to show the shareholders: Look we came up with new content and people are doing it!!

 

Was same with Kotfe and Eternal Champtionship.

[Christie_Swift]

There are days...yes "entire whole days" that nobody queue up for HM flashpoints. Put aside the complexity of HMs nature for a min and at least focus on that topic.

 

Why is there is nobody doing them? All I know is that most people are not happy with incentives. Why do it when you can do "easier and much more populated" tact versions. The system is broken. I have not seen other MMOs that have a failed PvE queue system and just putting some light on the subject from that perspective.

 

To those who say why dont you do it with a guild? I do that as well. Even in my guild most people wont touch it. If you have any guild that does them frequently send an invite to change my mind. However, these are not a function of a guild but of a broken PvE queue system beyond broken.

[DenariusJay]

When DvL first started, I hadn't done a single HM FP... I rolled a tank and proceeded to 1 shot 98% of them.

 

My advice to people who are struggling is to roll a tank, preferably an easy tank like Vanguard/Pyrotech and just stand there and hold agro and let people carry you. There's no shame in that. You don't have to worry about healing, don't have to worry about dps too much (do whatever you can, but don't stress about it) and just hold agro and stay alive the best you can through all fights. I cleared BoR, BH, LI, AoT, Korriban, etc.. all by just doing that - with zero fight knowledge (well, I had the tac version knowledge, which by and large is all you need to clear most HM's)

 

HM's really really really depend and hang on impressive DPS and above-avg healers. If you lack any of that the FP drags on with a lot of wipes due to subpar healing or lack of dps. At least as a tank, you can correct your mistakes very quickly, usually its a matter of losing agro or just missing a fight mechanic, which can be corrected on the spot - However, with bad DPS or Heals, that's usually bad rotation which can't be fixed in one session. The great part about Tank is you get fast ques, so even if the group falls apart, you can usually reque and get in another one fast.

 

Just my 2 cents. Good luck out there.

[xkcurtisx]

When DvL first started, I hadn't done a single HM FP... I rolled a tank and proceeded to 1 shot 98% of them.

 

My advice to people who are struggling is to roll a tank, preferably an easy tank like Vanguard/Pyrotech and just stand there and hold agro and let people carry you. There's no shame in that. You don't have to worry about healing, don't have to worry about dps too much (do whatever you can, but don't stress about it) and just hold agro and stay alive the best you can through all fights. I cleared BoR, BH, LI, AoT, Korriban, etc.. all by just doing that - with zero fight knowledge (well, I had the tac version knowledge, which by and large is all you need to clear most HM's)

 

HM's really really really depend and hang on impressive DPS and above-avg healers. If you lack any of that the FP drags on with a lot of wipes due to subpar healing or lack of dps. At least as a tank, you can correct your mistakes very quickly, usually its a matter of losing agro or just missing a fight mechanic, which can be corrected on the spot - However, with bad DPS or Heals, that's usually bad rotation which can't be fixed in one session. The great part about Tank is you get fast ques, so even if the group falls apart, you can usually reque and get in another one fast.

 

Just my 2 cents. Good luck out there.

 

pyrotech is not a tanking spec.

[blowupwookies]

I've done some HMs with undergeared pug groups - but as long as they knew tactics it was quite all right. HM is supposed to be hard, and to be honest if You're having a problem with HM fps - maybe it's you - who is the problem here, not fp or your group

 

Tbh swtor is super easy state now and it used to be a lot of harder. Don't make it even easier.

[TheRandomno]

When DvL first started, I hadn't done a single HM FP... I rolled a tank and proceeded to 1 shot 98% of them.

 

Wouldn't there have to be at least 50 HM FPs required for this to be true?

[Tsetso]

pyrotech is not a tanking spec.

 

It's however quite fun to play on Torque - tanks are getting mad when they can't see the vents from all the fire effects

[xkcurtisx]

It's however quite fun to play on Torque - tanks are getting mad when they can't see the vents from all the fire effects

 

it is a fun spec yes, however the tanking part of that u said.... thats stupid then the tank is bad. i mean they even added circles around the fire effects. that fire effect has been changed twice to make it easier to see. (and nothing was wrong with it originally)

[Tsetso]

it is a fun spec yes, however the tanking part of that u said.... thats stupid then the tank is bad. i mean they even added circles around the fire effects. that fire effect has been changed twice to make it easier to see. (and nothing was wrong with it originally)

 

I don't know. Last time one of the tanks yelled at me saying his framerate was dropping to 12-13, but i've never had some problems. Switched to AP but I really prefer pyro. And with 5.0 some of the burst is returning.

[KendraP]

When DvL first started, I hadn't done a single HM FP... I rolled a tank and proceeded to 1 shot 98% of them.

 

My advice to people who are struggling is to roll a tank, preferably an easy tank like Vanguard/Pyrotech and just stand there and hold agro and let people carry you. .

 

Tanking HMs is being carried now huh. Suddenly I remember why i don't do hm fp much. I did a couple last week and had a healer that was dps (gunnery mando) and blamed me for dying (he was off healing!). Another one I had dps that insisted on pulling before me. I finally got fed up, whispered the healer not to heal them through it and stayed around a corner with the healer until they died. Me and the healer killed the mob while the dps were telling us how crappy we were, what kind of tank couldn't hold aggro on a whole mob with dps pulling? And why did they get no heals? I said let me do my job and I'll hold aggro just fine. You didn't get healed because I asked him not to heal you if you pulled before me again. All this and I'm the one getting carried? Please, I've put out more dps on my guardian tank than some of the dps I've come across pugging hm fp. Good tanks are becoming rare with the rise of tacticals. The last thing we need are more derps that don't know what a taunt is running tanks because it's the "carry" spec. Tanking, like healing, requires you to be situational aware and a team player. The tank is generally expected to know the mechanics of the fight and definately sets the pace. I've been in groups where I've had to explain the mechanics to the 1 new person when 3 of us knew them for no reason other than I was the tank. And yet I'm being "carried". Note i run healers as well. So I do understand the healing output required of something like the last boss in blood hunt or rishi. And I have been carried through both on my gunslinger that does less damage than my guardian tanks. So it's entirely possible to carry low dps. Not so a bad tank or healer in something like blood hunt or rishi.

[xkcurtisx]

I don't know. Last time one of the tanks yelled at me saying his framerate was dropping to 12-13, but i've never had some problems. Switched to AP but I really prefer pyro. And with 5.0 some of the burst is returning.

 

Sounds like a HIM problem than a YOU problem. Besides Pyro does a bunch more there than Prototype

[peter_plankskull]

Tanking, like healing, requires you to be situational aware and a team player.

 

All roles require that, just more so a tank and a healer. A good dps player will not only put out good numbers on the board, but know when to stun, interrupt, throw offheals, taunt, cleanse, know what to target, when to peel, and when to aggro dump.

[Da-Dude]

Tanking HMs is being carried now huh. Suddenly I remember why i don't do hm fp much. I did a couple last week and had a healer that was dps (gunnery mando) and blamed me for dying (he was off healing!). <Snip>.

 

I did Lost Island HM for DVL with shadow 'tank''. Couple wipes on each boss, and the 'tank' is the first one to melt. Also I noticed that I don't get any heal during spiting phase on 2nd boss. I was thinking that this could be healing issue, until I checked the 'tank' gear.... PVP DPS gear.... 0_o

 

Wipes repeatedly on the last boss, the 'tank' said sorry & left, got replacement tank from a friend guild, a real tank this time, one shooted the last boss

[Sundown]

Tanking HMs is being carried now huh.

I guess you took that the wrong way. He didn't mean to say a tank was carried in general, but that it might be easier to run the HM FP's when new using a tank, rather than Heals or DPS. Given the fact that there are just a few mechanics and a little positioning that might even be right. I can't judge that though, but others have said as much.

[Deaconik]

There are days...yes "entire whole days" that nobody queue up for HM flashpoints. Put aside the complexity of HMs nature for a min and at least focus on that topic.

 

Why is there is nobody doing them? All I know is that most people are not happy with incentives. Why do it when you can do "easier and much more populated" tact versions. The system is broken. I have not seen other MMOs that have a failed PvE queue system and just putting some light on the subject from that perspective.

 

To those who say why dont you do it with a guild? I do that as well. Even in my guild most people wont touch it. If you have any guild that does them frequently send an invite to change my mind. However, these are not a function of a guild but of a broken PvE queue system beyond broken.

 

Depends on server, I queue as tank when I'm bored and the longest waiting time so far was around 10 minutes. Just a friendly reminder that many players use ignore on characters who queue as a "false class"(DPS spec being healer or tank).