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Why Macros belong in TOR.


_compton_
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Immediately upon logging into the game initially during early access, I set my keybinds, and then typed "/m" into the chatbox, intending to get a feel for macro function within the game. I was surprised, as were many of my friends, guild mates and others that I've spoken to, when nothing was forthcoming. I went straight to google, and my query was "SWTOR macro support?". My jaw literally dropped as, on the first link I followed, I read that there would be no macro support at launch. The lack of macro support in tandem with focus functionality initially inhibited me, and many others I've spoken with, from playing as effectively as we feel that we are capable of, and by extension, decreased the amount of enjoyment we were able to derive from PvPing in this game. Here's why: No one can deny, a large portion of SWTOR players are going to be coming either directly from WoW, or will at least be players with prior experience with that particularly behemoth. If you ask any competitive PvP player in WoW, focus and macro functionality are absolutely vital to maximize efficiency. In addition, many healers will find their ability to effectively heal a large group impacted by a lack of mouse-over macros, another staple of the competitive WoW PvP and PvE communities. Before you point out "this is not WoW", we're all aware it isn't, obviously. [U][I]But not supporting features that detract nothing from the game and would be welcomed (and the absence of which is already negatively affecting the experience of many people I know personally within the game) is silly.[/I][/U] Many aspects of this game and the systems within it are derived indirectly from other MMOs, WoW included and probably the most prevalent due to it's size and popularity. Macros and focus are a staple within WoW particularly at end-game and proliferate even more at higher levels of competition, both within the PvP and PvE communities. [I]I'm positive that competitive PvE and PvP scenes are something that Bioware wants to cultivate and foster within TOR - the development of these scenes would benefit the game hugely. It is within the best interests of the games success and the developers to attract as many players as possible and to facilitate truly competitive gameplay. I believe that Macro and Focus support are vital to the realization of this eventuality, and that is the bottom line imo.[/I] There is [I][U]nothing about macro and focus use that suggests "skill-less". Ask yourself, what is easier to manage? A single target, or multiple targets, each of which could be casting spells or performing abilities that you need to maintain awareness of at all times? [/U][/I]The only people who dislike macros in this context either were unable to use them properly, or were unwilling to even try using them initially. [I][U]Bottom line, macros, particularly in a PvP scenario and particularly in concert with focus, should be supported and available to those who wish to utilize them. [/U][/I] Finally, please, please discuss this. Opinions from every perspective are valid, and I know there are players who both vehemently support and oppose the advent of macros within TOR. If you agree that macros do belong in the game, why? If you believe the implementation of macros would harm the game, why? EDIT FOR BREVITY! Here's a condensed version/[B][U]TL;DR [/U][/B]for everyone unwilling to devote the time to read everything said above: -The lack of Macro and Focus functionality/support within the game inhibits the play experience. Particularly for those coming from other games (WoW being the most prevalent) that are used to the increased effectiveness macro use facilitates. -Macros and Focus are vital elements in a truly competitive PvP/PvE scene, the development of which can ONLY benefit the Game as a whole. -Not supporting features that detract nothing from the game and would be welcomed (and the absence of which is already negatively affecting the experience of many people I know personally within the game) is silly. -Macro use, particularly in tandem with focus, is not "skill-less" but the converse. It adds complexity to the game. -Discuss! [B][U]IMPORTANT[/U][/B]: I am NOT necessarily asking for support for completely customizable macros, but support for what I believe are two functions VITAL to competitive and satisfying gameplay: -Focus Macro Support and -Mouseover Macro support MACROS ARE NOT ADDONS. Here's the disparity, and it's a fundamental one. Addons are pieces of coding written by 3rd parties which alter the User interface, primarily. Macros are lines of text written WITHIN THE GAME, that do not alter the UI, change any frames, or give you information you wouldn't otherwise have access to. What I am asking for is NOT an IWIN single button spam for multiple abilities. "Macros are a pretty broad term for certain [B][U]convenience [/U][/B]and [B][U]advanced[/U][/B] user functions at this time. Some of those features are present as possible key binds in the game, others are not. [B][U]We’re not opposed to macros[/U][/B], we don’t hate them, in fact [B][U]we will probably add them[/U][/B], but probably not for launch." -Georg Zoeller [B][U]WHAT I AM ACTUALLY ASKING FOR SUPPORT FOR:[/U][/B] [B][U]Focus macro functionality to use with the focus frames that are already within the game. Such a macro would look like this: /cast [target=focus] "abilityname" Here's a mouseover macro - /cast [target=mouseover] "abilityname" Devilishly complicated, right? [/U][/B] Edited by _compton_
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[quote name='ShadowSoljer']Essentially what you want is this: One button that does all the work for you. Get some skill and you won't need macros. GG[/QUOTE] This type of trolling, non-constructive response hardly deserves a reply, but.. It's clear you read absolutely nothing of what I posted, I devoted a paragraph to that particular myth, and why it's so blatantly wrong. Not every macro is a "cast-sequence" which is not what I'm in support of, and not what this thread is about. Edited by _compton_
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[quote name='_compton_']This type of trolling response hardly deserves a reply, but.. It's clear you read absolutely nothing of what I posted, I devoted a paragraph to that particular myth, and why it's so blatantly wrong. Not every macro is a "cast-sequence" which is not what I'm in support of, and not what this thread is about.[/QUOTE] Hardly trolling, maybe you should read the 3rd line from my first response. It still applies to anything that you wrote complaining about no macros. EDIT: you wanted other players opinions, then you try to bash them by claiming that it is trolling for the sole reason that it differs from your opinion. Edited by ShadowSoljer
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[quote name='ShadowSoljer']Hardly trolling, maybe you should read the 3rd line from my first response. It still applies to anything that you wrote complaining about no macros. EDIT: [COLOR="Red"]you wanted other players opinions, then you try to bash them by claiming that it is trolling for the sole reason that it differs from your opinion.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] You typed "GG" at the end of your post. You were trolling. YOU bashed first. Edited by Ludanyke
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[quote name='ShadowSoljer']Hardly trolling, maybe you should read the 3rd line from my first response. It still applies to anything that you wrote complaining about no macros. EDIT: you wanted other players opinions, then you try to bash them by claiming that it is trolling for the sole reason that it differs from your opinion.[/QUOTE] Obvious troll is obvious, and it's a shame we can't keep this constructive, but I'll respond anyway just so no one else is discouraged from posting. As I covered in, as I said, an entire paragraph of my initial post, the two primary types of macro that are so essential to competitive gameplay are not "one button does everything for you" cast-sequence esque macros. They in fact are the opposite of "skill-less" as they require you to maintain awareness of and monitor two targets instead of one, as well as reacting to those targets. Mouseover macros, simply put, make healing in a group environment more streamlined and more feasible. There have been many complaints about TOR healing particularly in PvP, the implementation of mouseover macros would go a long way to solving those issues. @Boba - I don't see why the presence of a competitive PvP scene in WoW is amusing to you - it certainly exists, there are many events surrounding it and many players partaking in it and many more following it. Rated Arenas and Battlegrounds are of course what I'm referring to. WoW PvP at one point had a presence in the MLG circuit - SWTOR PvP could potentially get there as well at some point, and wouldn't that be a good thing? Competitive MMO PvP exists, bottom line. Edited by _compton_
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I completely agree with NOT using macros in this game. I heal PvP warzones with both 4 man premades and pugs. It takes more awareness and feel for what's going on in the field. Without macros I actually have to look away from the ops bars now and again to actually see what's going on in the warzone. Mainly, I just find the game to be easy already. If BW were to add macro support, PvP for me would become even more stale than it is already starting to feel. Edit: Mouseover macros would be pretty useful. I'll give you that. But that functionality can be added without giving players customizable macro support. Edited by LaughingMountain
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Macros are very important for PVP and PVE! I was searching for them in the game too, but no luck. Looks like there is not any support for macros and 3rd-party addons at all :-( It's not possible to have hardcore PVE or PVP guilds in MMO w/o ability to meter performance of ppl.
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[quote name='LaughingMountain']I completely agree with NOT using macros in this game. I heal PvP warzones with both 4 man premades and pugs. It takes more awareness and feel for what's going on in the field. Without macros I actually have to look away from the ops bars now and again to actually see what's going on in the warzone. Mainly, I just find the game to be easy already. If BW were to add macro support, PvP for me would become even more stale than it is already starting to feel. Edit: Mouseover macros would be pretty useful. I'll give you that. But that functionality can be added without giving players customizable macro support.[/QUOTE] Thank you for the last - I'm glad you read it through and made a concession. I am NOT necessarily asking for completely customizable macro support, but support for what I believe are two functions VITAL to competitive and satisfying gameplay. These are - Focus Macro support and Mouseover Macro support. @Vig - As I've said, in the case of Focus macros it does not making things easier - it adds complexity. As for mouseover macros, I believe they are necessary for someone to feasibly heal a LARGE group of people, such as in a Operation or Warzone scenario, and as I've also pointed out, healing in it's current state has been the subject of many, many complaints. Edited by _compton_
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[quote name='mandoarc']no no no no macro is for lazy ppl who dont want to do anything them self what we do need is [COLOR="Red"][SIZE="7"]autoattack[/SIZE][/COLOR] tire of spaming the same key over and over[/quote] This!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Edited by Ludanyke
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No Developer with regard for themselves would accept macro's to serve a as a tool to simplify the fullness in a game (a onebutton smash rotation). Macros should be a gadget for increasing the alternatives to targeting along with cc'ing opponents or your focus target without having to changing targets. Some may say its unnecessary however for me it is absolutely reasonable to have those elements in this game.
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[quote name='MandoArc']No NO no NO Macro is for lazy ppl who dont want to do anything them self what we do need is AUTOATTACK tire of spaming the same key over and over[/QUOTE] I get the feeling that many of you aren't bothering to read my post, even the TL;DR I added, which I feel isn't too much to ask. This "skill-less" stigma and the association with "lazy" has been addressed multiple times both in my initial post and in the subsequent replies. PLEASE ACTUALLY READ THE POST - broad, base-less statements made out of context do not contribute to constructive discourse. @ Strange - Thank you, this is exactly what I'm trying to say, and it's been clarified in my initial post. I will reiterate - I am NOT necessarily asking for support for fully customizable macros - just for two functions that I and many others believe are necessary for satisfying and competitive gameplay. These are: Focus Macro Support and Mouseover Macro Support. That is the extent of it at this point. Edited by _compton_
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I love the fact that casuals still come here and hate on macros. Obviously never used them. In lineage 2 it was impossible past certain levels not to have macros since most skills bounce into others and vice versa. Especially for buffers who would haveto cast 53 buffs in order to buff someone... and then again for the other 8 people in the group. tedious... long and very unnecessary. The macro system makes life alot easier.. the longer the macros the harder it can fail however if you have a 1 macro attack string of all your attacks in sequence... 1 interrupt and you start all over again. So. To sum up. Macro's can only help you. They cannot win for you. An interrupt, a stun, a cancel will break the flow anyway. I shall support the adding of macro's and let all nay-sayers get their casual asses back to newbie forums! EDIT: To be fair i've been using my mouse and keyboard macros to essentially already do all of that but a global system should only make it easier(alt+tabbing to change add and fix macros? yea i'll prefer to do without :D) Edited by CoreofexisteNz
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[quote name='CoreofexisteNz']I love the fact that casuals still come here and hate on macros. Obviously never used them. In lineage 2 it was impossible past certain levels not to have macros since most skills bounce into others and vice versa. Especially for buffers who would haveto cast 53 buffs in order to buff someone... and then again for the other 8 people in the group. tedious... long and very unnecessary. The macro system makes life alot easier.. the longer the macros the harder it can fail however if you have a 1 macro attack string of all your attacks in sequence... 1 interrupt and you start all over again. So. To sum up. Macro's can only help you. They cannot win for you. An interrupt, a stun, a cancel will break the flow anyway. I shall support the adding of macro's and let all nay-sayers get their casual asses back to newbie forums![/QUOTE] Thanks for the support. As you pointed out, macros, particularly the ones I and many others are in support of implementing, streamline the process only. They do not give you any unfair advantages, and they only add complexity to the gameplay. Edited by _compton_
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[quote name='Vedrus']Macros are very important for PVP and PVE! I was searching for them in the game too, but no luck. Looks like there is not any support for macros and 3rd-party addons at all :-( It's not possible to have hardcore PVE or PVP guilds in MMO w/o ability to meter performance of ppl.[/QUOTE] The boss/player dying is my performance meter.
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[quote name='CapuchinSeven']The boss/player dying is my performance meter.[/QUOTE] Please remember guys, we're discussing macros here. DPS meters are addons, which are a different beast entirely. To address the damage meter issue quickly, there can certainly be both positive and negative usages of them. The ability to track incoming/outgoing damage and healing can allow those interested to delve into the intricacies of the math and optimize their gameplay, whether that's cool-down or mana usage for tanks and healers, or a DPS rotation for a damage dealing player. This type of thing can also be taken to extremes which is generally a negative thing, where people obsess over them and look to them as the sole measure/indicator of performance. This is bad. All things in moderation, things are very, very rarely black and white.
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I agree with the OP. I would like to have spells in both bars at bottom to change depending if I am using a modifier or not. I have small hands and I can't reach many keys, so to be able to put more actions in less real state would help me a lot in the game. It won't make things easier and won't play for me just to cast a diferent spell if I am hitting shift or not. That fuctionality - to hit one spell or the other when using key + shift - is already in game. But with macros I would not have to bind so many keys and strech the hand so much so It will make everything more enjoyable. So yes I support macros completely.
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