2004 will forever stand in the hearts of many who dare call themselves hardcore gamers as the rise of the casual gamer. The game that contributed in no small part to this was: WoW Long I miss the days of EQ, UO, DAOC, Lineage, Lineage2 and all games like them. They all went downhill eventually.. but on release they were almost perfect <3

Should be noted: Theres 2 vendors up there. 1 for collectors and 1 for digital deluxe. Granted DD only sells a Corealis Commander for 1.5m but hey, I dont really care.

I get booted from parties and ops everytime the clock hits 30 seconds or 1 minute meaning the longest I can possibly be in a group is 29 seconds. -.-

Lineage 2, hindemith server: first aden siege. A clan of 37 hardcore L2 pvpers by the name of OutLawZ stormed and took aden from the npc's in under 47 mins. While 3000 players sat just outside the siege area spectating and waiting for the clan to take aden. The moment OutLawZ took aden, the alliances and clans combined into one massive zerg predetermined to take the castle from this one clan. This clan came prepared: spammed out over 1000 npc's at 15k cost a piece and had the throne room on lockdown. 1 hour and 30 mins into the siege the attackers reach the throne room. The clan of 37 spammed the throne room with everything they had and held it for 27 mins. The cast time to take the castle is 5 mins. OutLawZ wins the siege of Aden by the skin of their teeth. Total npc kill count: 4782 Total OutLawZ kill count(from pvp stats): 2453 Server average level: 65 OutLawZ average level: 81(80 + 100%) That was the laggiest game I ever played and one of the only times it as close to impossible to handle things for certain periods of time. But when you get that 30 secs t a minute time to react... down go another 30-50 players caught in your aoes.

Gotcha, so just spamming my lowgrade greens on the AH is considered -more than the bare minimum- That will explain it then. No no please note I was never on the other side of this issue, I was just wondering what exactly I was missing about the arguments put forward that had such a big impact on my playstyle in comparison to the OP. While I do not agree with your conclusion, if that is your summation then that is your explenation. Incorrect as it may be. And to the dude who claimed I dont have a job, or a life or sanity: Quit being jealous <3

Sigh. This is my point. This minimalistic society. No ambition, no drive, no motivation. Heres the shortversion: If you want a level playing field: play an fps. If you want a progressive role playing game: play an rpg. But an MMO is not meant to be instant reward. So far I have noticed alot of people make comments about how: out of principle they wont grind... but they consider everything a grind. MMORPGs are meant to have a couple of forms of grind: pvp, quest, pve. PVP is always the longest. Quest is usually the fastest. PvE is usually the compromise. Heres my 2 cents. Everyone here hasnt grinded anything. They have logged in and played the game at their pace not willing to put in any effort; out of principle. This is fine but then dont complain when you are cannonfodder. Lets stop kidding ourselves: I dont hear factory workers crying about the fact that their boss is a hardcore elite business school graduate. Because they know damn well if they had finished the school grind, they would be too.

-.- You have been weighed. You have been measured. And you have been found wanting. If you cant beat your opponent alone, beat him as a team. If you need power. Earn it. If you need strength. Train it. If you need victory. Steal it. Seriously everyone here that is not yet 50 and agrees that the pvp sucks regardless of any comments about beta(we have all been in various stages and some of has have dates from 2010, so dont even start that pissing match.) Need to grow the hell up. SERIOUSLY!? You want to be able to 1v1 a lvl 50 as a lvl 10? are you absolutely joking? I will admit brackets to seperate the 50s sure why not, premades vs premades? sure why not. But most of you are here because you somehow find it unfair that a lvl 50 can wipe your party of lvl 10's. You people have never really played any other mmos besides WoW have you? Come on be honest. In Lineage2 if a player was more than 2 levels lower than you the odds of them even hitting you was reduced by 50%. Imagine how many that higher level player could kill if there was 20 people 8 levels lower than him trying to kill him. Aion: A lvl 25 aion player could wipe anything lower level than him. and every 5 levels this trend continued. Regardless of the amount of people trying to kill him that are below his level. EVE online: Granted skills are given overtime but 100m skillpoints vs 10m skillpoints? not even close to a fight. 100 vs 30? what a joke. 100 vs 85? who are you trying to kid? 100 vs 95... now thats a fight. UO same deal Lineage same deal EQ same deal D2 same deal DAOC same deal All games listed above are not the game most of you came from -.- You have been spoiled with WoW and to be fair SWTOR is not that different in how casual the game is. All in all. I have but one message for the folks that dont think the bolster buff is already more than you lowlevels deserve: Go play counterstrike of modern warfare. I could do without your whining on these forums.

Shout out to UO and L2 Kk, I have a few remarks... I never had the skill slicing and played around 24 hours of warzones combined with leveling my character quest up to legacy. This is the point where I hit 34. At this point in time I had 920k. I did not sell crafted gear, I did not slice things. I just offered all my green stuff from 1 planet(3-4 hours of playing) on the AH for 24 hours and if it didnt sell it would get vendored. I continued doing this till I hit 50. Valor 31 as I hit 50 all planets done, leveled 5 crewskills to 400, all skills bought(incl lv3 speeder), Speeder bought, Orange top range/purple gear and I ended with 2.4million credits. My crewskills are: Scavenging, Underwold trading, Armormech. I have sold 0 of every resource and the fact that I have over 2400 durasteel is a testament to that. I have sold every green piece of gear and blue and custom that I could not use at: AH SUGGESTED PRICE.(lowballing the market? maybe but it worked.) I have had to repair my armor in the 110 hours played: 3 times. I did not run any ops or flashpoints at this point besides soloing black talon at lvl 9. The most important detail: I solo'ed everything and skipped some Heroic 4 areas. Did I completely miss the part where this game is a credit crunch? One more question: This is for anyone willing to respond. How does playing any mmo previous to SWTOR entitle you to an easier playtime now? I have seen several people in this thread make the comment about how they are from WoW or "many other mmo's" so why shouldnt they have it easy? Seriously you make it sound like an MMO is work... but then again the mmo you listed: WoW is not a grind mmo. Lineage 2 is a grind mmo. That game is work. Incorrect comparisons are the reasons why so many casual players are referred to as: Hardcore elites when they really should be called: Able to not have this issue and therefore are automatically on the other side of it.

Yesterday we made a makeshift group around 4pm gmt to go do eternity vault. Started with 4 clannies and 4 randoms. No one even once cared about the time, no one knew how long it would take, at a certain point we got hungry. It was now 9pm. Determined to finish it, we took an hour break and continued at 10:30 pm. At 1 AM we were finished with the vault. Considering none of us expected or anticipated it would be that long not 1 complained. I know now how we can run it without taking X amount of time and keep it down to 2-3 hours. But hey I didnt use google I like puzzles.

Thats the tank class isnt it? I might be wrong: If it is the tank spec, you cant hope to beat most ranged. If it is not the tank spec but a damage spec. stick with it. The outrageous damage high levels outdamage you with is only because your skills and gear arent up to date yet. Melee CAN rip me apart... sometimes. although I wouldnt be a decent pvper if I didnt use everythign at my disposal to keep the distance between us. Rocket punch 9 sec cooldown, jet boost 20 secs. Dont stand near a ledge I am a merc. Arsenal spec

what level and class are you? I just had an idea: LvL 50 warzone where you can turn all that earned pvp into straight cash and double commendations. and then a normal pvp where you might **** more but take a loss on things. Incentive.

True. I still cant believe how much diversity there is between the leveled... and the levelers. WoW was 105 hours to get to max level. With some help it was what? 30 hours? point is. Compare that to Lineage 2 where it took a full 4 months get to 60 and another 6 months to get to 72 and another 6 to get to 80. This is a game most of you wouldnt even touch with a long stick. Now you might cause its 10x easier to level the game has been out forever. But back during startup it took ages. In lineage 2. You could not see other peoples levels gear etc. I was amongst the highest levels after 3 months (64~). No big deal But do you know what people said in that game? Holy ****! nice work! Are you sure you're not a chinese farmer!? HAHAH Thats seriously not the reaction you get in casual games. All you ever get is people who want ALL THE REWARDS for NONE OF THE WORK. Seriously screw the fact that you paid for a game. You have absolutely no idea what it is to put in some effort. (Actual real life jobs not withstanding already covered this in a previous post) I can totally respect people who after a long day come home and dont want to work for their rewards but can I suggest you play a game like frogger or donkey kong perhaps? (Mind you I felt like frogger when killing Gharj, hop hop hop hop hop hop.)

Kk You realize that by saying this you actually concede to the fact that you will not be the strongest, best or highest level. The fact that you are complaining means that you wont ever stop complaining. Heres my gripe. People like you hate people like us. Jealousy. So if you CHOOSE to do other things CONCEDE the fact that you might not be the best. Most of us rushed 50 so that we didnt have to level when going back to work. Say it with me one more time. If you choose to do other things with your time, this is your choice. Just stay away from the forums to whine and spend that time levelling. If you want to have thesame advantages and disadvantages in a game: Play counterstrike. If you want an rpg where you get stronger the more time you put into it, play an mmo. Know your audience. Play your game.

True, edited my post. Was getting tired of the random accusations Dont mind brackets. Hate the hate people have for us.

It takes around 110 hours to get to 50. So lets say you are a working man, and pop out 3-4 hours on a weekday and around 10-12 on a weekend day. That would be around 44 hours a week. This means you should be around 50 in 2 weeks + change. This means you should be 50 now. Your only argument was that you have a job. I have a job. I made it to 50 3.5 days after early. I had a week off. Hardcore nolifer? You dont need to be in a game that is meant for the casuals. .

First game I encountered a level 50 scoundrel: Stunned, tap tap tap, almost dead but walked away. Second time I encountered a scoundrel: Stunned, determination, jet boost, tracer missile, unload, tracer missile, Heatseeker. Scoundrel dead. Next? Both times was in a 1v1 situation where I believed no enemies were upon me and suddenly the scoundrel would unstealth.

According to what ive seen, mercs are about 3 times easier to kill than sorcs and it must be noted due to to the extremely high crit chance of tracer missile and the inherent ability to lower up to 25% armor, it makes a huge impact on merc dps. As far as I am aware sorcs do not have have the ability to decrease armor but have alot more CC than the mercs(mercs get a few but they are rarely useable(1min cooldown 4 secs)) In a 1v1, the merc due to his extreme dps should have an edge against most... non melee classes. Melee classes and tank classes can rip through a merc. Merc vs caster however should be won by a Merc since they have the -all out dps- tree. And yes tracer missile is the spam, but only in a situation where you dont mind overheating -.-

The option to kill them only comes up after you goto the assasins den and accept the offer to kill your employer. Then when you return to the family arguing over what to do, you get the option to kill them all.

Silverspar: You use contradictory methods of arguing. You started by using reducto absurdium by stating that all level 50s should be level 10s in WZ. Then you started the premise that the game should offer incentive not to be high level and now you are suggesting that level 50s shouldnt get any advantages and therefore excluded from the game since they "reap what they sow". Seriously. Quit projecting your own shortcomings onto others. We dont care. I will say it again: Remove leveling and xp, remove gear, remove money, make this an instagib game and then everyone can be happy... Oh and remove scores aswell. Lets face it.. Once you are 50 you will start crying about how OP someones specific armor is. The game hasnt been out for what 8 days? These topics shouldnt exist in the first place. You want to take your time, and do it slowly. No objections here at all do everythign at your own pace. But stop trying to have your cake and eating it aswell.

Nevermind check above post

Essentially all servers are the same.

Granted they do and bioware has already given the bolster buff to lower levels. What you are asking for now is exclusion of lvl 50s of which there are maybe 50-100 on each server from the pvp. This would be fine if lvl 50s were doing nothing besides constantly pvping. But they arent. Which means in the current state of affairs it would take lvl 50s about an hour to get into a warzone, a game of 10-15 mins and then another hour of waiting. The current state of affairs cannot support a system of exclusion untill there are enough players to fill all your desired brackets. Quit saying other people are ignorant just because we arent vocal about the huge impact gear and skills make. Yes they make a huge difference. Mostly because they take alot more time to get. Should you feel bad about a lvl50 wiping the floor with your lvl 24 char? Hell no. Should you have even the slightest hope of besting him in a 1v1? No. Dont misread those 2. I was getting grief no matter what level my char was. Simply because I walk away from every warzone with the most damage. Should I be proud? Fck no. Mostly because I know that my class and the way he is specced is pure dps. A system that demands exclusion isnt a system that will improve the game this early on. As for gear: Yes lvl 50 gear is around 30 times better than lvl 10 gear. Any arguments? Complaints? Funny I thought someone would complain that lvl 50 gear is 30 times better than level 10 gear.... oh wait thats right. The complaints arent that the gear is better... but that they cant use it at level 10. The only way to get everything you want is to play Counter-strike 1.6: No cheap tricks, no ********, just skill.

How does pressing 3 mean you are skilled?

I would just hate if it came down to this: a lvl 50 making a post about how its unfair to be using pvp gear. Or about them crafting their own super orange gear. Which is what I fear this is heading towards.. brackets based on gear.

Fair enough. Still I say remove the bolster buff entirely. That should give you some incentive I would just hate if it came down to this: a lvl 50 making a post about how its unfair to be using pvp gear. Or about them crafting their own super orange gear. Which is what I fear this is heading towards.. brackets based on gear.