Why Macros belong in TOR.

[Haralin]

if you can play your class, you need no macro, macros are for users that dont want to klick more than 2 Buttons, cause they are not able to manage there skills right in some critical situations.

 

l2p i say

[Grumoth]

First, I would like to point out to the OP that quoting trolls opposing you and then conclude that, paraphrased, "people opposing macros are either trolls or don't have any real arguments" makes for a bad discussion.

 

Now to my actual points.

 

In response to the argument, "If you don't like macros, don't use them".

If macros are in game, your opponents will use them. They will gain an advantage over you if you don't use macros. Nobody likes to be at a disadvantage when PvP'ing, so you are pretty much forced to use them if they are in game.

But 3rd party communication also puts you at an advantage! Let's also ban that!. Unlike macros, though, communication doesn't press any buttons for you. A team is composed of several players. It's not just 4 individuals running together. It's a team and thus have 8 eyes and 8 ears. It's simply a mean of providing information fast, information which the rest of the team has to analyze and act on.

 

In my opinion, there are 2 kinds of macros

Macros, like someone earlier mentioned, that yells something out or makes announcements, I'm completely okay with. In fact, those would be really helpful and I would support these. You can compare these to 3rd party communication. These are fine.

Button-pressing macros and 'makes-targetting-easier', though, is another story. This only encourages min-maxing (which, to some degree, is okay, but it can quickly get out of hand). Any kinds of macros that remove the requirement of timing, button rotation etc makes the game easier. Making the game easier means gaining advantages. Gaining advantages in PvP without any effort is NOT contributing positively to the competitiveness.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Grumoth

[ajjw]

People continue to post in ignorance. Macros are not addons. I am not advocating for castsequence macros - merely focus macros, which essentially allow a team lacking healers facing a team with healers to have a reasonable chance, and Mouseover macros, which make healing large groups feasible and much, much less clunky.

 

Ignorant people will continue to make baseless, unsubstantiated statements, as they always will.

The level of sheer ignorance on these forums is the highest of any MMO I've ever played. So much blind hate and bandwagon hopping, is getting rediculous.

 

I agree 100% - Macros are needed. Preferably sooner rather than later.

[Xerks]

I was stunned during the fight and then I used my cc breaker and ward lol.

 

It wasn't made up at all, it happened on Tatooine and both guys were on the same level as me and had companions.

 

Sounds like you on the other hand would have just stood there and got beat up on, maybe you should stop relying on macros.

 

You still fail to point out how this scenario provides any legitimate insight to this thread. This game is set up (at this point) to where with equal skill in a 2v1 situation, the 2 will always win. If you used your cd's so should have your adversaries. You CAN NOT win 1v2 against equally skilled players in this game without a fluke.

[Highfives]

l2p i say

 

Pretty much all that need to be said.

 

Average players can manage, why can't you guys?

[bobaTBS]

Would you beat two EQUALLY SKILLED enemy players 2v1, or would you be stun-locked for the duration of your life draining 100 - 0? The answer is the second one buddy, your example of "random (probably made up on the spot) pvp scenario" has no backing, and is therefor irrelevant.

 

You are not supposed to kill two equally skilled enemy players 2v1 EVER in ANY game. In most games 2 equally skilled players will crush you without giving you a chance to do anything. Your are showing serious lack of logic in this thread.

[ajjw]

Pretty much all that need to be said.

 

Average players can manage, why can't you guys?

Average players don't play optimally. The clue is in the name. You are not stretching and pushing the boundaries of your character to push out that extra bit of performance.

 

If you wanna play optimally, macros are a necessity. Just because you are bad and settle for mediocrity does not mean everyone else does.

[Polly_Pocket]

Stop feeding the trolls.

 

These people are only arguing against you for the sake of arguing against you. It's obvious they are trolling you. So stop feeding them.

 

The original poster had made extremely logical points regarding macro's and I whole heartedly agree.

[Grumoth]

If you wanna play optimally, macros are a necessity. Just because you are bad and settle for mediocrity does not mean everyone else does.

 

So what you're saying is that you need macros to make up for your shortcomings?

[CoreofexisteNz]

Pretty much all that need to be said.

 

Average players can manage, why can't you guys?

 

Again, I am not begging for macro's they have no impact on my game at all but then again I am not a support class.

 

Also, the sheer ignorance where you believe it makes a difference whether or not I use 1 keystroke or 4 to hand your gonads to you, makes me wonder if youve actually ever used them.

[ajjw]

So what you're saying is that you need macros to make up for your shortcomings?

Your either A) Trolling or B) Terrible at this game. As such, welcome to my ignore list.

[Vlaid]

Pretty much all that need to be said.

 

Average players can manage, why can't you guys?

 

Because we know that the UI is throttling player skill so that they can't perform to their full level of effectiveness.

 

Imagine if they changed Basketball so the hoop was 10x bigger, or moved the stands in baseball so far in there is no outfield. That's basically what not allowing macros does.

 

If you were talking about addons, I could tottally agree. They aren't needed.

 

But macros? They just allow you to do what you want to do without the UI throttling/getting in your way by making you use more keypresses to do the same thing.

[Grumoth]

Stop feeding the trolls.

 

These people are only arguing against you for the sake of arguing against you. It's obvious they are trolling you. So stop feeding them.

 

The original poster had made extremely logical points regarding macro's and I whole heartedly agree.

 

His points are no more logical than the counter arguments against him.

[bobaTBS]

Yes, ofcourse. If you disagree with me you are a troll. Perfect reasoning for people in denial.

[Sky_walkerPL]

My answer to the topic: Learn to play.

[Highfives]

Again, I am not begging for macro's they have no impact on my game at all but then again I am not a support class.

 

Also, the sheer ignorance where you believe it makes a difference whether or not I use 1 keystroke or 4 to hand your gonads to you, makes me wonder if youve actually ever used them.

 

If you really had that kind of co-ordination then you wouldn't need macros then bro.

[Grumoth]

Your either A) Trolling or B) Terrible at this game. As such, welcome to my ignore list.

 

Then what are you saying?

 

If you want to play your class optimally, you should training your rotation, not rely on some artificial program to do it for you.

[Grumoth]

Yes, ofcourse. If you disagree with me you are a troll. Perfect reasoning for people in denial.

 

Yup, this seems to be the only counter-argument to people opposing macros.

[Reveryen]

I like the idea of having no macro system. People will get used to it, if Bioware doesn't decide to give in. In my opinion, there isn't really a space in the game for people who try to cut through PvP, the easy way. I've played macro-less for years in every MMO I've played, and the only time I ever struggled, was when I was out of depth completely, which was 2'000 rating as a shaman, in season 2 arena Warcraft.

 

I think it personally focuses players to play their character, which is why I've stayed away from it.

 

So, instead of whining about it, why not adapt, learn and understand?

[Highfives]

Because we know that the UI is throttling player skill so that they can't perform to their full level of effectiveness.

 

Imagine if they changed Basketball so the hoop was 10x bigger, or moved the stands in baseball so far in there is no outfield. That's basically what not allowing macros does.

 

If you were talking about addons, I could tottally agree. They aren't needed.

 

But macros? They just allow you to do what you want to do without the UI throttling/getting in your way by making you use more keypresses to do the same thing.

 

No, it would be like wanting to use power armour in basketball so you could match a top players reactions, co-ordination and ability, you didn't work for that skill it is being handed to you by a system in placed to augment your skill.

 

Your full potential is what you are capable of, not what a system is capable of doing.

[CoreofexisteNz]

My answer to the topic: Learn to play.

 

Seriously? I sincerely doubt you can even 1v1 a well-fed womprat. LET THE BASHING COMMENCE!

 

No, it would be like wanting to use power armour in basketball so you could match a top players reactions, co-ordination and ability, you didn't work for that skill it is being handed to you by a system in placed to augment your skill.

 

Your full potential is what you are capable of, not what a system is capable of doing.

 

 

Seriously dude tell me please, how is using 4 keystrokes instead of 1 even a difference to the player on the receiving end. My alacrity wont let my skills go faster anyway.

 

Thats what I want to know from you. The MACRO SYSTEM cant think for itself, it cant endlessly loop and do everything for me. So answer: How does using 1 keystroke instead of 4 make any difference to the person receiving the punishment?

Edited December 28, 2011 by CoreofexisteNz

[Xerks]

You are not supposed to kill two equally skilled enemy players 2v1 EVER in ANY game. In most games 2 equally skilled players will crush you without giving you a chance to do anything. Your are showing serious lack of logic in this thread.

 

His post implied that he was good enough to beat 2 players without macros, therefore we shouldn't need macros. I merely pointed out that his scenario had no backing or constructive influence on this thread. Never did I say you should be able to win 1v2, but macros at least allow you to sway the fight in your direction.

 

If you can use everything at your disposal better than your opposition then you deserve to gain that advantage and macros only further the gap in player skill.

[Arutassin]

There is nothing about macro and focus use that suggests "skill-less". Ask yourself, what is easier to manage? A single target, or multiple targets, each of which could be casting spells or performing abilities that you need to maintain awareness of at all times? The only people who dislike macros in this context either were unable to use them properly, or were unwilling to even try using them initially.

 

This is a flawed point as you presume that someone not using macro's can't take on the same scenario or mulit targets. Look at the scenario or tracking multiple targets using macro's and not using macros. Not using macro's requires more skill as you have to manage who you are targeting and what abilities you are casting. Using a macro means you can spam a button and the skill of managing these targets is removed drastically.

 

Your scenario you use to validate your points actually proves it to be incorrect.

 

Macro's actually causes a lot more problems especially for the game devs and designers as they now have to take into account when designing abilities etc how these will be manipulated in a macro and have to set different limitations and requirements of these abilities to make the game still a battle of skill and not a battle of the best macro.]

 

At present without macro's players skill with the game engine dictates how well they do. introduce macros and it becomes a case of the person with the best macro wins. If everyone has the same macro then the point of them is removed anyway.

 

The game needs things fixed esp in PvP but adding macro's is not what the game needs.

[CoreofexisteNz]

This is a flawed point as you presume that someone not using macro's can't take on the same scenario or mulit targets. Look at the scenario or tracking multiple targets using macro's and not using macros. Not using macro's requires more skill as you have to manage who you are targeting and what abilities you are casting. Using a macro means you can spam a button and the skill of managing these targets is removed drastically.

 

Your scenario you use to validate your points actually proves it to be incorrect.

 

Macro's actually causes a lot more problems especially for the game devs and designers as they now have to take into account when designing abilities etc how these will be manipulated in a macro and have to set different limitations and requirements of these abilities to make the game still a battle of skill and not a battle of the best macro.]

 

At present without macro's players skill with the game engine dictates how well they do. introduce macros and it becomes a case of the person with the best macro wins. If everyone has the same macro then the point of them is removed anyway.

 

The game needs things fixed esp in PvP but adding macro's is not what the game needs.

 

Sigh the OP just wanted to let his opinion be known, I am all for macros. But at the end of the day those that want macros can use third party programs and those that dont want macros can cry about it. This topic just invited everyone to complain about request.

 

I agree there are things more dire that need fixing.. like the slicing nerf.

[RedhookAle]

I like the idea of having no macro system. People will get used to it, if Bioware doesn't decide to give in. In my opinion, there isn't really a space in the game for people who try to cut through PvP, the easy way. I've played macro-less for years in every MMO I've played, and the only time I ever struggled, was when I was out of depth completely, which was 2'000 rating as a shaman, in season 2 arena Warcraft.

 

I think it personally focuses players to play their character, which is why I've stayed away from it.

 

So, instead of whining about it, why not adapt, learn and understand?

 

I agree with this.

 

I used macros for a bit in WoW, before i left, Then used them on occasion really only for an o-sh-t heal in RIFT.

 

I don't use macros. I also don't get the argument that you NEED them to heal effectively in PvP and End Game PvE. It's simply not true. Maybe get a programmable mouse / keyboard? Not the same, i know . I agree that mouse over targeting / target of target would be nice, but macros i could do completely without.

 

As a 30's commando, I've done just fine in all of the flashpoints i've ran. And if you want to know about how well i'm doing healing WZs, ask a Republic player on Daragon Trail.

Edited December 28, 2011 by RedhookAle