Why Macros belong in TOR.

[Highfives]

His post implied that he was good enough to beat 2 players without macros, therefore we shouldn't need macros. I merely pointed out that his scenario had no backing or constructive influence on this thread. Never did I say you should be able to win 1v2, but macros at least allow you to sway the fight in your direction.

 

If you can use everything at your disposal better than your opposition then you deserve to gain that advantage and macros only further the gap in player skill.

 

Then what is swaying the fight mean if not swaying the fight in your favour aka winning?

 

It is totally relevant a guy was saying oh no I can't micromanage two players without macros its impossible and then I just told him how I beat two players without macros and using positioning and skills. It is entirely relevant.

 

I accomplished what he uses macros for with skill. Just standing around micromanaging two players using macros is insane, why should you be able to put a fight in a 2 vs 1 situation? as boba said in a straight up fight you should lose.

[bobaTBS]

If you can use everything at your disposal better than your opposition then you deserve to gain that advantage and macros only further the gap in player skill.

 

Oh wow, just WOW. I mean all your comments were similar to this, but this takes the cake. Imagine, macros make the difference between good and bad players bigger. That is not only a big pile of BS but it's exactly the opposite of what the reality is.

 

If a good and a bad player use macros the gap is smaller between them than it would be without macros, because macros nullify some of that advantage a good player has (reaction speed, multitasking etc.).

Edited December 28, 2011 by bobaTBS

[Xerks]

No, it would be like wanting to use power armour in basketball so you could match a top players reactions, co-ordination and ability, you didn't work for that skill it is being handed to you by a system in placed to augment your skill.

 

Your full potential is what you are capable of, not what a system is capable of doing.

 

You fail to understand that macros allow for you to adapt to a greater amount of scenarios, for each situation you have many different little things you do to gain an advantage. Someone who can manage all those situations and the macros for each one will come out ahead of someone who cant on an equal playing field. (THINK THATS CALLED SKILL??)

[CHRISGG]

Macros are an important missing feature in the game. But focus macros, which seems to be the only things you care about, absolutely 100% are not. They make the game easier, not harder, and not having them does not limit you below "what you are capable of," it does the opposite.

 

Watching a cast bar on someones head, targetting them and using your spell and then re-targetting is harder than setting someone as your focus and then pressing 1 button. Absolute, 100% fact. Using focus macros is not some amazing feat of skill, if they were harder to use NO ONE WOULD USE THEM. It's absolutely and totally mindless, you can land interrupts on people who aren't even in your field of vision without even being aware of where they are by pressing a focus macro. What part of that is harder? Please explain.

Edited December 28, 2011 by CHRISGG

[_compton_]

This is a flawed point as you presume that someone not using macro's can't take on the same scenario or mulit targets. Look at the scenario or tracking multiple targets using macro's and not using macros. Not using macro's requires more skill as you have to manage who you are targeting and what abilities you are casting. Using a macro means you can spam a button and the skill of managing these targets is removed drastically.

 

Your scenario you use to validate your points actually proves it to be incorrect.

 

Macro's actually causes a lot more problems especially for the game devs and designers as they now have to take into account when designing abilities etc how these will be manipulated in a macro and have to set different limitations and requirements of these abilities to make the game still a battle of skill and not a battle of the best macro.]

 

At present without macro's players skill with the game engine dictates how well they do. introduce macros and it becomes a case of the person with the best macro wins. If everyone has the same macro then the point of them is removed anyway.

 

The game needs things fixed esp in PvP but adding macro's is not what the game needs.

 

Back for the time being, felt this needed addressing - it adds complexity, because without focus functionality effectively managing two competent players, or playing against a team with a healer advantage and having a reasonable chance to compete, is not feasible. Without focus, managing a healer disparity between teams or multiple players is not a viable course of action, which completely negates your argument. Lack of focus essentially eliminates the possibility of managing either of the circumstances detailed above.

 

This thread is steadily devolving into a stage for flaming, something I was hoping to prevent.

 

Going to bed, please try to keep things civil.

Edited December 28, 2011 by _compton_

[Druidys]

They should add macro's.

- It makes the gameplay more smooth

- More fun

- Increases skillcap

- Bosses can be made more diffcult

[Grumoth]

Macros are an important missing feature in the game. But focus macros, which seems to be the only things you care about, absolutely 100% are not. They make the game easier, not harder, and not having them does not limit you below "what you are capable of," it does the opposite.

 

Watching a cast bar on someones head, targetting them and using your spell and then re-targetting is harder than setting someone as your focus and then pressing 1 button. Absolute, 100% fact. Using focus macros is not some amazing feat of skill, if they were harder to use NO ONE WOULD USE THEM.

 

What kind of macros are you wanting?

 

I agree with your post.

[Ekryth]

I didn't read the OP thread, because I'm tired, but I still felt like posting. Sorry.

 

If Bioware decides to implement macros in the way they could be used when I last played RIFT, then I have very mixed feelings about it.

 

In Rift you could make a macro like this:

 

#show searing strike

 

suppressmacrofailures

 

cast rift strike

 

cast frost strike

 

cast searing strike

 

cast stonespear

 

cast windspear

 

cast flamespear

 

cast soul sickness

 

cast frenzied strike

 

cast inescapable fury

 

Now, what this macro would do is try to use every spell as they were listed in the column. When one ability was on a cooldown, it would just skip that one in the column and fire off the next one listed. You decide which abilities you wanted to use first, in whatever order you liked, and you put them accordingly. It did make playing the game much easier, but was probably very unnecessary..

 

So, any "skill" a player gained from just learning which buttons to hit and what times kind of went out the window - for the most part.. When I made macros on Rift I usually only included abilities that were just used for pure damage, and no other effective to them.

 

Abilities with snares, roots, fears, stuns, silences, etc. I left off the macro. So, there was still "skill" involved, but it was mainly skill of learning the timing of the non damage abilities, and not skill based on knowing when to use what damage abilities with cooldowns.

 

At this point, yes I do kind of wish I had macros, BUT the only reason I want macros like the ones I used in Rift is because right now my Marader(level 35) just has too many buttons... My keyboard is running out of spots to put them!! I would MUCH rather see Bioware come up with ideas for possibly trying to make some of the abilities classes have condensed somehow(make some passive? combine one ability with another partially? etc.) rather than make it so players can make macros to the point were all you have to do is spam a couple of buttons and have everything fire off perfectly with no effort......(no effort besides making the macro)

 

Please Bioware, don't screw this one up!!!

Edited December 28, 2011 by Ekryth

[blackcerberus]

Essentially what you want is this:

 

One button that does all the work for you.

 

Get some skill and you won't need macros. GG

 

let me try a blind shot

 

you are a SI or similar class that only needs 5 skills top to perform competitively, and would hate others to have an easy ride like you do because without that rtarded advantage then your "skill" wouldnt be up to the challenge

 

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Edited December 28, 2011 by blackcerberus

[Vlaid]

Macros are an important missing feature in the game. But focus macros, which seems to be the only things you care about, absolutely 100% are not. They make the game easier, not harder, and not having them does not limit you below "what you are capable of," it does the opposite.

 

Watching a cast bar on someones head, targetting them and using your spell and then re-targetting is harder than setting someone as your focus and then pressing 1 button. Absolute, 100% fact. Using focus macros is not some amazing feat of skill, if they were harder to use NO ONE WOULD USE THEM. It's absolutely and totally mindless, you can land interrupts on people who aren't even in your field of vision without even being aware of where they are by pressing a focus macro. What part of that is harder? Please explain.

 

In that situation, the UI is getting in your way by making it more difficult to target who you want in a cluster. It's just not realistic to put roadblocks in a players way (the UI as it were) and then call overcoming that roadblock skill.

[Xerks]

Then what is swaying the fight mean if not swaying the fight in your favour aka winning?

 

 

It means outperforming your opposition. I can play better than the opposing players 1v2 but that doesn't mean I'm going to win the fight, I will still die, I will just leave them hurting more than they should be.

[CHRISGG]

In that situation, the UI is getting in your way by making it more difficult to target who you want in a cluster. It's just not realistic to put roadblocks in a players way (the UI as it were) and then call overcoming that roadblock skill.

 

How is the UI getting in your way? Targetting is a part of the game. You could argue that the game makes it hard to target which would be true, but your post doesn't even mention that.

 

By your logic the UI is getting in your way because you can't use ESP to tell the game to cast X spell on X target instantly.

[Highfives]

You fail to understand that macros allow for you to adapt to a greater amount of scenarios, for each situation you have many different little things you do to gain an advantage. Someone who can manage all those situations and the macros for each one will come out ahead of someone who cant on an equal playing field. (THINK THATS CALLED SKILL??)

 

I sometimes use the combination 2>R>X as an opener. How does you pressing one button to do that mean you are skilled?

 

 

For whatever scenario I know my button combinations but you have a specific button for it, how does that make you more skilled?

 

Pure skill is what you are capable of on your own, macros isn't skill you can deny it as much as you want but a system in place to make things more convenient or easy is the system doing the work and not your skill, stop trying to defend an indefensible position.

 

No athlete on earth would say using an outside system would be a test of skill, no musician on earth would say pressing a piano key to sound out a few notes is talent and no pro shooter would say focus is good aim, why do you think it is talent?

 

You are making no sense.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Highfives

[Vlaid]

How is the UI getting in your way? Targetting is a part of the game. You could argue that the game makes it hard to target which would be true, but your post doesn't even mention that.

 

By your logic the UI is getting in your way because you can't use ESP to tell the game to cast X spell on X target instantly.

 

....

 

Why should targeting people be hard? I've never watched any PVP in my life and went WOW HE IS SO GOOD AT TARGETING PEOPLE!

 

It's just.....silly. It's like in those FPS's where doing silly things like jumping and laying down midair before you land to make yourself a smaller target is called skill. It's not skill....it's gimmicky.

[Vlaid]

I sometimes use the combination 2>R>X as an opener. How does you pressing one button to do that mean you are skilled?

 

 

For whatever scenario I know my button combinations but you have a specific button for it, how does that make you more skilled?

 

Pure skill is what you are capable of on your own, no macros is skill you can deny it as much as you want but a system in place to make things more convenient or easy is the system doing the work and not your skill, stop trying to defend an indefensible position.

 

No athlete on earth would say using an outside system would be a test of skill, no musician on earth would say pressing a piano key to sound out a few notes is talent and no pro shooter would say focus is good aim, why do you think it is talent?

 

You are making no sense.

 

I think people are missunderstanding a lot.

 

Some people come from Rift, where macros are absurd.

 

Some people (like me) come from WoW, where Macros are just about perfectly balanced and don't let you do anything enormously complex. This is the form of Macros I would want to see in TOR, not the Rift style. And I imagine most the pro-macro people in this thread are thinking along the same lines.

[CoreofexisteNz]

I sometimes use the combination 2>R>X as an opener. How does you pressing one button to do that mean you are skilled?

 

How does pressing 3 mean you are skilled?

[bobaTBS]

....

 

Why should targeting people be hard? I've never watched any PVP in my life and went WOW HE IS SO GOOD AT TARGETING PEOPLE!

 

Watch a daoc 8v8 video, preferably minstrel PoV.

[Xolhardal]

It's like you guys have been driving automatic all your life and now you have to drive manual you are like OMG wth is this gear stick thingy?!!

 

Tough break, adapt.

 

The only flaw I see in your statement is assuming many of these people are old enough to drive.

[Highfives]

....

 

Why should targeting people be hard? I've never watched any PVP in my life and went WOW HE IS SO GOOD AT TARGETING PEOPLE!

 

It's just.....silly. It's like in those FPS's where doing silly things like jumping and laying down midair before you land to make yourself a smaller target is called skill. It's not skill....it's gimmicky.

 

Please don't insult players who have far better reactions than you, that is pure skill in its rawest form.

 

Something you don't understand because you think macros should do it for you.

[CHRISGG]

....

 

Why should targeting people be hard? I've never watched any PVP in my life and went WOW HE IS SO GOOD AT TARGETING PEOPLE!

 

It's just.....silly. It's like in those FPS's where doing silly things like jumping and laying down midair before you land to make yourself a smaller target is called skill. It's not skill....it's gimmicky.

 

Targetting people shouldn't be hard. It's hard in this game only due to bugs. In a game like WoW (which is relevant because it's what this entire thread is about) targetting is seamless and easy. Players use focus macros because they're easier to use and do not require you to have any situational awareness.

 

If I want to interrupt someone in SW:TOR, I need to make a note of where they are and I need to watch their nameplate, target them mid spell, interupt, then swap my target back.

 

If I want to interrupt someone in SW:TOR, I need to look at the cast bar on my focus frame and press my interrupt key. I do not need to know where they are at all.

 

Also your example is garbage because things like bunny hopping do take a great amount of skill that average players can't achieve, but in no way are they remotely comparable to MMORPG targetting, lol.

Edited December 28, 2011 by CHRISGG

[Xerks]

I sometimes use the combination 2>R>X as an opener. How does you pressing one button to do that mean you are skilled?

 

 

 

Please stay on topic, nobody is asking for 1 button that does an entire opener, or damage rotation, or anything of that matter.

[Vlaid]

Please don't insult players who have far better reactions than you, that is pure skill in its rawest form.

 

Something you don't understand because you think macros should do it for you.

 

What are you talking about?

 

I do fine. I am almost top in damage, somewhere in the mid on healing by off-healing with extra ammo, I cleanse debuffs from friendlies, cc dps off healers, and know how to use my knockback to seperate a back from each other.

 

I've been highly ranked in PVP across several games (not pro, but I'm better than your average Warzone player). I don't NEED macros to beat people.

 

Macros add another layer of skill that allows people to play at an even higher level by removing the targeting throttle and freeing up some keybinds.

 

It would be a glorious day if I could fit all my keybinds seeing as I use two different modifiers, a G16 keyboard and a mous with 6 extra buttons....and have no room for things such as consumables and a couple abilities I would like on my bar.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Vlaid

[Ekahab]

I do try and keep an open mind, but I recall watching macros ruin SWG pvp for years. I hear the statements that macros add skill, but from what i witnessed, it took the skill out of the game and let the game *game* itself for you.

 

I'll pass on macros, save the skill level in pvp and do it myself, thanks.

[CHRISGG]

What are you talking about?

 

I do fine. I am almost top in damage, somewhere in the mid on healing by off-healing with extra ammo, I cleanse debuffs from friendlies, cc dps off healers, and know how to use my knockback to seperate a back from each other.

 

I've been highly ranked in PVP across several games (not pro, but I'm better than your average Warzone player). I don't NEED macros to beat people.

 

Macros add another layer of skill that allows people to play at an even higher level by removing the targeting throttle and freeing up some keybinds.

 

It would be a glorious day if I could fit all my keybinds seeing as I use two different modifiers, a G16 keyboard and a mous with 6 extra buttons....and have no room for things such as consumables and a couple abilities I would like on my bar.

 

Focus macros do not free up keybinds, they add keybinds. Focus macros do not allow you to play at a higher level of skill in any way, all they do is remove a big part of the game that requires skill. I would love to hear the actual argument for why they require more skill than the alternative, which CLEARLY requires more awareness and input from the player.

[Xerks]

I do try and keep an open mind, but I recall watching macros ruin SWG pvp for years. I hear the statements that macros add skill, but from what i witnessed, it took the skill out of the game and let the game *game* itself for you.

 

I'll pass on macros, save the skill level in pvp and do it myself, thanks.

 

The type of macros asked for in this thread do nothing of the sort. I feel like a massive misunderstanding of what the OP is asking for is plaguing this thread.