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Has the Outlander just made things worse?

CorellianWannabe

By CorellianWannabe
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CorellianWannabe

CorellianWannabe

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Posted (edited)

By the conclusion of Fallen Empire the Outlander:

 

1) Handed the most powerful fleet in the galaxy to Scorpio

 

2) Effectively put an insane woman with greater Force power than her brother on the throne

 

3) Couldn't manage to stop that same brother from escaping to cause who knows what trouble

 

Would the Republic and Empire have been better off if Lana had never rescued the PC?

Edited by CorellianWannabe
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JOrifice

JOrifice

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Well, as they seem to be moving largely out of Star Wars territory here, it all depends.

If they are using this as an analogy for the political instability that tends to happen anytime a Dictator is overthrown, then, YES in the short term. If they are going for a Disney Happy Ending , then, NO. If they are "borrowing" from, say, Mass Effect here, then, we have just handed a Reaper the most powerful military force in the Galaxy and are thoroughly boned. So H#!! YES.

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peter_plankskull

peter_plankskull

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While Vaylin may be stronger in the force than Arcann, Arcann has far more refined technique with it, and his dueling abilities FAR surpass hers, not to mention he has years of experience. Vaylin is just a OP toddler with A LOT of power, but no way to properly channel it. Arcann would plow her anyday.

 

While I would say things are "worse" in the galaxy, it's not really because of us, but more Valkorian manipulating everything.

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dirtykid

dirtykid

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By the conclusion of Fallen Empire the Outlander:

 

1) Handed the most powerful fleet in the galaxy to Scorpio

 

2) Effectively put an insane woman with greater Force power than her brother on the throne

 

3) Couldn't manage to stop that same brother from escaping to cause who knows what trouble

 

Would the Republic and Empire have been better off if Lana had never rescued the PC?

 

HA! if you were dark-side you also:

 

4) let a whiny Rastafarian steal the only ship to challenge the most powerful fleet and win

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AshlaBoga

AshlaBoga

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By the conclusion of Fallen Empire the Outlander:

 

1) Handed the most powerful fleet in the galaxy to Scorpio

 

2) Effectively put an insane woman with greater Force power than her brother on the throne

 

3) Couldn't manage to stop that same brother from escaping to cause who knows what trouble

 

Would the Republic and Empire have been better off if Lana had never rescued the PC?

 

I'd say zero net loss, zero net benefit.

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Tsillah

Tsillah

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1) Handed the most powerful fleet in the galaxy to Scorpio

 

I wouldn't say I handed it over. Scorpio's role in this was written in a way that we never had the choice to stop her. So it was really out of our hands.

 

2) Effectively put an insane woman with greater Force power than her brother on the throne

 

How did we do that as Outlander? Scorpio actually allowed her on the throne.

 

3) Couldn't manage to stop that same brother from escaping to cause who knows what trouble

 

Again this is the writing. There was no choice in the story that allowed us to stop Senya from escaping with him. It's not that we couldn't manage, we were simply not allowed to manage.

 

Would the Republic and Empire have been better off if Lana had never rescued the PC?

 

Clearly no. The poor writing aside and the lack of actual choices that could lead to a better result, the war was lost and Arcann could not be stopped. In all our stumbling and stupidity as Outlander, we did defeat Arcann and he is no longer on the throne. The question now is a different one. What does Vaylin want? She seems preoccupied with her mother and Arcann who now betrayed her, even though she was obviously already planning to stab Arcann in the back but now she can blame him.

 

She hates her family more than the universe it would seem. So I would expect her to use her resources to hunt down Senya, Arcann and Valkorion. And that's the part where we come in. We, as outlander, will be most likely on the sideline of this family feud. I expect Thexan to return and the question is, will he, Senya and Arcann be able to make a front against Vaylin or will there be more in fighting tearing their family apart even more?

 

To be fair, I thought that KotFE was rather poor in its delivery and to tell a story that is entirely focused on that battle between you and Arcann and then to end it with him being rescued by Senya because when you tried to kill him the writers said "no"...well, it was anti-climactic at best. If they'd written the story with more subtlety and no so focused on the confrontation with Arcann, it wouldn't have been an issue.

 

So, all in all, I'd say the galaxy was lost but the outlander, stumbling fool of a hero, did manage to stop Arcann. Of course we couldn't stop Senya, we couldn't stop Koth and we couldn't stop Scorpio. Why not? Because the writers didn't let us. They made the outlander a farce so they could maintain their weak story line. That sounds really harsh, but that's how it feels to me.

 

I wonder how this story would've gone if BW in Canada had done it as an actual single player game. My guess is that the story would've been more compelling. I know that as Commander Shepard I don't always get to make the choices I want but at least my character always felt like the hero that was fighting impossible odds and that I could make a difference in that story.

 

KotFE doesn't reach that level. You are constantly subject to the whims of others and I feel like the child that is allowed to eat at the adult table barely being able to stick your head above the table. I think for me that is the biggest failing of the story. I am not the hero, I am the commander in title who has to do all the inglorious dirty work and gets stepped on whenever it suits anyone.

 

Some people complain about level sync and how they don't feel like the powerful beings they've become over time. For me KotFE does that 10 times worse.

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UmbralSpirit

UmbralSpirit

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While Vaylin may be stronger in the force than Arcann, Arcann has far more refined technique with it, and his dueling abilities FAR surpass hers, not to mention he has years of experience. Vaylin is just a OP toddler with A LOT of power, but no way to properly channel it. Arcann would plow her anyday.

 

While I would say things are "worse" in the galaxy, it's not really because of us, but more Valkorian manipulating everything.

 

Yea the whiny crybaby with the father complex sure is a force to be reckoned with........:D

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PowerJediRanger

PowerJediRanger

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Not sure but in my opinion after each time I played, and I'm LS, I feel I little bit like an idiot that is just there to do all the hard work that they can't do. Also that I feel that I get put on the sidelines as they plan stuff and when things go wrong they like cry to the Outlander. And sure I know that you can't please everyone but those that like get mad at me I just want to slap them saying "This is war! It ain't going to be easy."
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PanVlk

PanVlk

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3) Couldn't manage to stop that same brother from escaping to cause who knows what trouble

In the game, playing as a lightside Jedi Knight, i never understood how everyone took as granted that we must kill Arcann at all costs with no hesitation. I mean why? Without the control of the unstoppable robot fleet he's just a random strong immature force user. The Empire and the Republic could fill few sarlaccs with guys like him.

 

I let him go, the whole conflict never seemed personal to me, and at that point he just wasn't any threat. Certainly not worth killing Senya, whom I quite liked.

Edited by PanVlk
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dcaleb

dcaleb

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Getting Vaylin on the throne is a good thing for us. If Scorpio wasn't there it would just be a matter of sitting back and waiting for her to destroy Zakkul ion her own.

 

She isn't the moron that had half her order of force users killed with who knows what damage to surviving members sustained in the duel to the death (not to mention I'm sure that being made to kill their comrades shook more then a few loyalties). Or the one who just sat around with his thumb up his *** while rebels stole a droid that allowed control of the Eternal Fleet to be ripped from their grasp. She would literally have to order what forces still listen to the throne to glass planet Zakuul to do a worse job running the Eternal Empire then her brother was doing. It cannot be overstated how much Arcann sucked at his job and only hung on as long as he did because of the overwhelming advantage he had over the Republic and Sith Empire.

Edited by dcaleb
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ZanyaCross

ZanyaCross

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Worse for Zakuul, maybe. Remember that the US passed on numerous chances to kill Hitler because he was the biggest threat to his own forces. Vaylin's rule will likely start causing uprisings on her own planet (assuming Bioware's writers have any sense of history or realism).

 

Also, wondering how long SCORPIO will put up with her before she arranges a little accident.

Edited by ZanyaCross
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fovzwk

fovzwk

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Why is everyone talking like Vaylin is the stupid one out of Arcann and her?

She gave Arcann valuable advice multiple times, which resulted in him loosing when he ignored her.

She was against killing half of the knights, which he did anyways, costing him half of his knights.

She told him to send some of his fleet to stop the Mandalorians. He didn't. It cost him Gemini prime.

And she wanted to regain control of the eternal fleet first after Scorpio took over. He refused stating that the outlander was the bigger threat, which ultimately resulted in his own ships firing at him.

Looks to me like Vaylin is actually the brighter one (even if it isn't by much).

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Celise

Celise

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By the conclusion of Fallen Empire the Outlander:

 

1) Handed the most powerful fleet in the galaxy to Scorpio

 

2) Effectively put an insane woman with greater Force power than her brother on the throne

 

3) Couldn't manage to stop that same brother from escaping to cause who knows what trouble

 

Would the Republic and Empire have been better off if Lana had never rescued the PC?

 

1. Handed? More like stolen away.

2. Maybe, but an insane person has more vulnerabilities than a controlling arrogant man. just prod her enough and she will make lots of mistakes without properly thinking them out.

3. That is a very wild assumption.

 

The question you should be asking is what happens when the empire and republic no longer exist? what are the chances of defeating something so powerful that it can put down resistance without issue through sheer numbers of droids and knights. spy droids all over the place, unfriendly ears from civilians.

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dcaleb

dcaleb

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1. Handed? More like stolen away.

2. Maybe, but an insane person has more vulnerabilities than a controlling arrogant man. just prod her enough and she will make lots of mistakes without properly thinking them out.

3. That is a very wild assumption.

 

The question you should be asking is what happens when the empire and republic no longer exist? what are the chances of defeating something so powerful that it can put down resistance without issue through sheer numbers of droids and knights. spy droids all over the place, unfriendly ears from civilians.

 

Seriously, Vaylin may have a general air of instability but when it gets down to it she has nothing on her brother. She killed a single knight because of OCD? He killed half of the entire order in a fit of pique. Vaylin seems sadistic? Arcann is the one who let a Gemini unit get stolen because he wanted to watch the Mandalorians slowly break themselves on the factories defenses instead of ending it quick with an orbital bombardment. She seems super focused on killing mommy (and now Arcann)? Arcann is the one who was so obsessed with killing the Outlander that he took compromised ships to attack them while Vaylin advocated for getting their ships back under control first.

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Codedrago

Codedrago

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She was against killing half of the knights, which he did anyways, costing him half of his knights.

She was against it because he ordered her to do so, not because she actually thought it was a bad thing.

 

She told him to send some of his fleet to stop the Mandalorians. He didn't. It cost him Gemini prime.

At the point where she suggested it, Arcann didn't know the Outlander was there. All he knew was that an army that had repeatedly failed to beat his forces were going to try again, he was just confident from the previous times that his forces already there would be enough.

 

And she wanted to regain control of the eternal fleet first after Scorpio took over. He refused stating that the outlander was the bigger threat, which ultimately resulted in his own ships firing at him.

It was a stupid move, though to be fair Arcann's knowledge the Outlander had Valkorian with him. Plus, Vaylin instantly went with Arcann on his plan as soon as she knew they would go to Oddessen and fight Senya.

 

Arcann has made dumb moves, he's not fit for the position of a leader. But saying Vaylin is smarter seems laughable to me.

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thebumpkin

thebumpkin

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She was against it because he ordered her to do so, not because she actually thought it was a bad thing.

 

 

At the point where she suggested it, Arcann didn't know the Outlander was there. All he knew was that an army that had repeatedly failed to beat his forces were going to try again, he was just confident from the previous times that his forces already there would be enough.

 

 

It was a stupid move, though to be fair Arcann's knowledge the Outlander had Valkorian with him. Plus, Vaylin instantly went with Arcann on his plan as soon as she knew they would go to Oddessen and fight Senya.

 

Arcann has made dumb moves, he's not fit for the position of a leader. But saying Vaylin is smarter seems laughable to me.

 

Insanity is not necessarily a detriment of intelligence. In all three cases, Vaylin made the more intelligent propositions, Arcann ignored her either due to arrogance or unwarranted confidence. Vaylin being smarter isn't that laughable. Especially when the bar is so low with Arcann.

Edited by thebumpkin
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Codedrago

Codedrago

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Insanity is not necessarily a detriment of intelligence. In all three cases, Vaylin made the more intelligent propositions, Arcann ignored her either due to arrogance or unwarranted confidence. Vaylin being smarter isn't that laughable. Especially when the bar is so low with Arcann.

 

But none were made for intelligent reasons, thus they do not make her smart in making them.

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midianlord

midianlord

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Not sure but in my opinion after each time I played, and I'm LS, I feel I little bit like an idiot that is just there to do all the hard work that they can't do. Also that I feel that I get put on the sidelines as they plan stuff and when things go wrong they like cry to the Outlander. And sure I know that you can't please everyone but those that like get mad at me I just want to slap them saying "This is war! It ain't going to be easy."

 

The authors made us spear-carriers for their little pet-characters. This was somewhat hidden in the first 10-odd chapters, only to come crashing in on us in ch. 15 like a semi that's burnt up its brakes whilst descending Donner Pass...

 

If the writing was good enough to overcome this...

 

If the presentation was compelling enough to divert our attention from this...

 

If the combat wasn't so bloody tedious and repetitive that it could distract from this, then....

 

Then, yeah, but that's all mights and maybes. The fact is, it isn't/they aren't even close.

 

And it seems painfully obvious --IMO, at least-- that they don't even care.

 

(I looked through the credit-roll the last time I did it just a few days ago on the way to finishing up DvL, and frankly, it just leaves me flabbergasted that writers the proven calibre of Drew Karpyshyn or Alex Freed would even allow their names to be associated with this smugly self-satisfied mediocrity (ref.: The "Open Letter" plus recent live-streams)...I'm certainly no Hugo Award level writer myself, but I'd be quitting in disgust, and making one Hell of a lot of noise in the process if it was me in such a position. Artistic integrity, can we haz again, pleez?)

Edited by midianlord
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