Arcann may have had an edge in KOTFE right on up to Chapter 16, I believe the biggest issue the PC had was confidence s/he was not confident that they could in fact defeat Arcann, it was only at the moment when the Shield appears that finally the PC says, yeah, I got this. But that was the only "help" you really get from Valkorion against Arcann. Valk claims he saves you in chapter 8 but.... yeah... Valkorion is an Olympic gold medallist class liar. So not really believing that. Truth is, in KOTET if you choose to kill Senya you face Arcann at Vaylin's party and then you defeat and kill him there without any plot device help. Also the most simple answer of all is Valkorion himself. He chose the PC for a reason, if there was somebody better or more skilled, Valk would be in them. Simple as that.

I can understand her being annoyed that the Republic was used somewhat, but that's as much her own incompetence as it was Makeb's leaders being sneaky. It was woefully apparent why Makeb came to the Republic in the first place. But Saresh clearly went into this expecting a big payoff, which just highlights how blinkered she is. That is true, they had always maintained neutrality and they didn't want to be part of a galactic power, But their stance was hardly without precedence, and was no animosity there, not like Alderaan who left the Republic and the Republic was bending over backwards to return them to the fold, the alderaanians happily made use of the Republic to fight its proxy wars for them. Or Balmorra who were actively were quite hostile and unappreciative of the help the Republic tried to give them but accepted it and used it anyway... Difference is... before Saresh took power the Republic was about the people, not shows of strength.

On the contrary It makes perfect sense. Lucid dreaming is probably the best real life example of what you did to Valkorion in that final battle.

Peace is a lie there is only passion. Vitiate started multiple wars and totally broke galactic peace multiple times. Through Passion I gain strength. Vitiate's main passion main goal was immortality above all else. Through strength I gain power. In an overwhelming show of strength Vitiate two times devoured an entire planet and everything on it to add to his already considerable power. Through power, I gain victory. For thousands of years Vitiate sought more and more power to accomplish all his goals and never truly tasted defeat until he met the PC. Through victory, my chains are broken. Chains of mortality. Cast off. Chains of the flesh. Cast off. Chains of every other limiting factor that makes us a mortal Vitiate utterly cast off. The Force shall free me. And indeed it did. Freed him from death and other mortal weaknesses for a very very long time. So that BRIEFEST of snapshots of Vitiate from my perspective pretty much paints him as the most accomplished devotee of the Sith code I ever saw. And of course he sees the Jedi and Sith as totally inferior to the knights of Zakuul... Unlike Sith the knights offered him complete and utter obedience instead of feigned allegiance and backstabbing and petty powerplays.

The answer is simple, Valkorion was never looking to mind control you, he was trying to "hollow you out" to basically make a new shell for himself. If he had mind controlled you, and you managed to break free like the Jedi Knight did in the 1 to 50 game, then the jig is up for him. Instead of worrying about Arcann you'd be worrying about him, and that's a disaster Valkorion could ill afford since he pretty much put all his eggs into one basket, you. So rather than mind control you he tried to wear you down by being Casper the friendly ghost who would offer you power to defeat your enemies and so on giving you choices that looked like they help you but really help him. All the while he was basically making you into his new body so he could simply rule again. I think Valkorion underestimated the PC's will to survive, and before you slipped into oblivion you had one last handhold and basically clawed your way back from there, Valkorion and you were both in a fight for your life, and you had the home field advantage. Valkorion simply lost that fight.

A lot of people forget Lana is a Sith I think. She may be very reasonable and practical for a sith, but a Sith is what she is. I can't understand why everybody loves her so much, she gets on my nerves. And most of her suggestions/orders in KOTFE were absolutely retarded. Chapter 12 I just couldn't believe she was encouraging me to go off and have a chit chat with Vitiate! And if she knew you were alive but captured and still had intimacy with Koth regardless, that's cheating. End of Discussion. But she's a Sith, so... you gotta take that on the chin my old sons!

The moment she said that, I knew she was a disaster in the making. She wanted to give Rakton back to the Empire, the Empire's greatest strategist and battle commander, the guy who had never actually been defeated up till the moment he took on the Trooper and every single campaign he led and planned against the Republic succeeded. This is the man Saresh wanted to give back. So I went to all that trouble and effort to catch this guy, and now you want to give him back!? Yes the Empire will release thousands of POW's in exchange, but if we give him back are we literally handing the Empire the guy who could defeat us? Do you honestly think we'll be able to catch this guy again? Then there was the Makeb incident. That just showed Saresh's one track mind at defeating the Empire no matter what. She didn't seem to care at all about everybody on Makeb who had just lost their home. Finally in Shadow of Revan we see that the Jedi order or Satele at least has no confidence in her at all, Ziost just shows what a bumbling warmonger she is. Then we have KOTFE... Not to mention the fact she was the governor of Taris that was another failure under her watch. Saresh deserves some recognition though, she is the Galaxy's most politcally successful bungling incompetent.

I think that is how it has gone for Tenebrae. He has just gone from body to body inhabiting different ones. The REAL Valkorion he basically killed, and took his body in the story he says that Valkorion was a powerful warrior that he hollowed out, every so often he uses the ritual to devour a world to sustain him a bit longer. The "Voices of the Emperor" were just people who gladly went to their deaths to give their bodies to Tenebrae to live in. I would imagine, its easier to take over somebody who lets him do it than somebody who resists it. Like Delta says the loss of his real original body probably curtailed him somewhat, also all the "Children of the Emperor" were hunted down and killed or able to resist him. So he had nowhere to go, the proximity of you at his death, probably allowed him to grab a very tenuous link to you. Which he was trying to grow stronger and stronger. He wanted you to be stronger so that when he used his epic insta kill powers his nice shiny new body doesn't die.

That is as maybe. But my whole point was the "nobody will follow you" if you are _________ is not true.

All of those, are excellent points and I do take them aboard... but, it still doesn't debunk my brilliant theory that being that yes, even if you are a dark side kill happy tyrant, there are people who WILL follow you.

This line of thought gets pushed about a lot on these forums the alliance won't follow a ruthless kill happy dark sider, but one thing I would like explained, please, is that if that opinion is correct, how does one explain the existence of the Sith Empire? Which is basically an Empire formed of people who follow power hungry kill happy dark siders... I put it out there that yes, people WILL follow a Dark sider with a penchant for killing because there is plenty precedence for it in SWTOR canon, and Dark siders seem to manage to get results just as much as light siders do.

My use of the phrase "in canon" was not the best fit looking at it retrospectively in fact it was a wrong statement. I was not referencing about how a single individual plays their Imperial class through the story I was speaking about the general game notion where the Sith Empire you are effectively playing the bad guys. I know that is open to debate and points of view etc etc... but generally speaking the Republic is the "good" side and Empire is the "bad" side. To the People of the Empire my Wrath is a hero, but to the rest of the galaxy he's a bad apple who kills unarmed defenceless people with the same enthusiasm as he chops through an army if that is what it takes to accomplish the objective. Which is why Koth is not likely to, from an ideological point of view, get on with him.

This is an excellent post. In canon, the Imperial classes were a bunch of bad seeds who caused death, suffering etc etc... They were not heroes in the sense of how Koth perceived you. Either Koth was misled, or he simply misunderstood because after Valkorion died he needed a new hero... or... its story limitations.

Really? of all the other things in the game that are quit worthy it was that which proved the final straw? I just don't get it. Lana isn't even that amazing.

In the wise words of Bricktop... "It can get you in a lot of trouble thinking, Errol, I shouldnt do much of it."

Got another, during the Pub side Balmorra planetary chain, you are chasing a deadly superweapon called the "Barrager" But, the scientists have only one override to use, do you use the override to free prisoners from the brig, or, do you use the override to recover all the data on this superweapon. Dark side is to get the files and guarantee your success with the weapon, or use the override and let the prisoners loose and hope the scientists can patch together something that will stop the weapon. I honestly can't believe that its a dark side choice to take the files over the prisoners. If the Empire used the weapon, and the hotchpotch spike didn't work... then the prisoners you freed would be moot.

That's not really how counter proposals should work. Senya was in the shuttle ready to haul away, its not like there was a chance to discuss this action beforehand it was in fact sprung upon you purely because Senya didn't like the idea of Arcann captured or killed. Senya was a member of the alliance, if she wasn't, by very definition she couldn't actually betray you. She was also part of the leadership inner circle (PC, Lana, Theron, Koth) who together led by and large via consensus, with the PC as being a kind of figurehead "first among equals" kind of role and making the decisions based on the choices those other figures present her/him with. Senya didn't actually discuss anything about what she wanted done with Arcann or Vaylin, she kept those cards very close to her chest. This just looks a bit like excuses for Senya, and as far as Vaylin holding back goes, if you ask me Senya held back more. The indisputable fact is that Senya won the duel, and then simply let Vaylin walk without attempting any further action. So Vaylin being free / alive is most definately Senya's fault.

If there is one thing I have come to realise, its that if they're from Zakuul, don't trust them. Period.

There seems to be a lot of opinion and differing view in this thread so I shall stick to the facts. The first fact is the definition of traitor: "a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle." Senya fits that given one of the purposes of the Alliance was to dethrone Arcann and then bring him to justice. She betrayed one of the principles of the alliance, and depending on your choices, she also betrays you. Whether we should have expected is neither here nor there... the fact she's a mother and so forth, all are meaningless, she betrays you, that is a traitor. She had no intention of letting you capture or kill Arcann. And I don't count one good thrashing from me, as "he's paid for his crimes" no, he hasn't, not even close Senya. And what happened to bringing Arcann to Justice? Helping a criminal escape justice is called "Assisting escape" and that is a crime. So in addition to traitor, she's also a criminal. I know people have said she's been helpful and she's done A, B and C to help you, which is also true. But SCORPIO also helped you as well, if only to further her own ends. Senya's entire intention was to make off with Vaylin and Arcann and disappear. Which is not really an ideal outcome for the purpose of the alliance as a whole. The next fact, is that Vaylin is still alive / free because of Senya. Vayln's continued life and freedom is 100% down to Senya. She let Vaylin go free and/or didn't have what it takes to finish her. Capture of Vaylin would have been equally acceptable as death, Im sure there are some substantial brigs on the gravestone she could be put in or frozen in carbonite. But Senya deliberately and apologetically removed you from the fight which would have been fine had she the intention of seeing it through to the end, which she didn't. (Chapter 8) The final fact I wish to point out is that Senya would always put her family first, and the Commander is a bloody moron for allowing her to go on the mission in chapter 16 in the first place.

Did you pick up the shield during the fight?

My interpretation of that scene which I am not sure it correct per se, is that Kenobi told him "I have the high ground" and to Anakin, he probably set a kind of challenge. So instead of coming up with a different way Anakin's ego HAD to simply prove Obi wan wrong that the high ground didn't matter. That is why Anakin elected to jump and thus lost the fight. While there is a hell of a difference in duel between them in Episode 3 and 4, if you watch Vader in 4, he is far more guarded and wary of engaging his old Master until he realises "yes, this time, I will win!" Where compared to episode 3 Anakin pretty much attacked and attacked over and over again and was easily the more aggressive of the two. At least, that was how I viewed it.

Basically in answer to your final question, yes, assume that at some point your Zakuulan ally will shaft you. Koth blaming you for the reactor is just typical of Koth's behaviour from the start. Most of my characters didn't stop the reactor blowing up as 10 minutes ago, they were nearly dead from carbonite poisoning after a 5 year coma, and with a lunatic chasing them. So they pretty much said; "its unfortunate, but based on what little I know, I am in the heartland of my enemy's home, and I am hurt and I have a Force Behemoth chasing me... I don't want to risk recapture, escape is my priority" My dark side users were more to the point "Eff them! I don't owe these people anything, and if their own rulers are happy to kill them, they can't be that great." The other thing that annoyed me about Koth was the refugees in the swamp in chapter 3 or 4... basically you just escaped, the whole of Zakuul is looking for you, and you happen to meet some random refugees? Hang on, I thought this was some Vitiate loving Utopia? And there are people who live in the swamp? Sure, Id be happy to take in some random strangers to my only place of refuge, when any of whom could be a spy or an informer and would be happy to shop me to my enemy. No Koth, that makes ZERO strategic sense at this moment in time. Now deliberately blowing up the spire... that I can understand. Senya though, yeah, it was pretty much a given certainty that she would always choose Arcann and Vaylin over you. That became woefully apparent when Vaylin "Survived" their encounter.

No I meant mutiny. Those soldiers plotting to leave Taris is in defiance of their orders. The reason I usually order them back to their posts is that if word spread that they did leave and somebody lied to help them go, the other Soldiers on Taris may decide also that they would like to leave and go home despite their orders. The whole thing relies on the fact that everybody believes these men dead. That there is the risk. Everybody has to believe it. If somebody finds out the truth down the road... it could all blow up on Taris. And this is why most times my characters always tell them to get back to their posts and man up.

The developers did state that Vaylin is stronger than Arcann in the Force, however this idea that Senya is more powerful than the PC is not for definate; Senya bested Vaylin in a lightsaber duel which just proves that Senya is better at lightsaber fighting than Vaylin is. Also it must have really shocked Vaylin when Senya actually fought back, seeing as Vaylin is so used to people just letting her kill them if she likes.

Seconded. That shield made chapter 12 utterly moot.