Item Stack Resale Exploit

[LifeVirus]

Hey folks,

 

As of today’s patch, we fixed the following bug: It is no longer possible to purchase a stack of items and resell individual items for the price of the entire stack.

 

In a previous exploit, we were very up front and very public about its existence. We raised warnings as soon as we discovered the issue associated with the Temple Chair, with the hopes our players would not use it. What we discovered, were many players using a variety of ways to try and mask what they were doing and who they were. So, this time, we returned to removing visibility until we resolved it.

 

This bug created an exploit where a player could make large quantities of various currencies in the game with minimal effort. Use of the bug in this manner is something we absolutely consider an exploit. We are looking over the data of players who participated, and to what degree. We will begin taking action against accounts within the next few days. Action that will be taken includes:

• Suspension, up to and including permanent suspension
  
• Removal of credits
  
• Removal of Commendations and other currency
  
• Removal of Companion affection
  

I can only reiterate, if you discover an exploit, do not use it. Report it to the team immediately. You can do so via an in-game /bug or feel free to PM myself or Tait about it on the forums. Please, do not post about it publicly.

 

Thanks everyone. I will pass on updates as I have them.

 

-eric

 

Good thing you fixed that but not the rest of the game lol. GTN broken, Rakghoul event broken, raids poorly set... Are you guys even trying?

[Flying-Brian]

While the witch hunters just believe that everyone who was suspended took part in the exploit, as others have said, people were banned for just buying items from the GTN. I was one of them.

 

My account was suspended Thursday morning, 2 days later I still had not received any email about why the action was taken (I never received any notification as to why the action was taken). Saturday I emailed about the account dispute, and only received a responce to it yesterday afternoon.

 

I did not take part in the expolit, so much so, that I had never even bought any of the items that could have been duplicated since 4.0 launched (I don't care at all about decorations). I did however buy a bunch of companion gifts from the GTN after they hit a low in pricing. Buying items from the GTN is not against the TOS. Both of these facts were brought up in my dispute email.

 

Here was the responce when I got a reply.

We have now completed our investigation into your complaint. After reviewing your case, we can see that your concerns are valid and justified.

 

For everyone talking about how if people bought items from the GTN they should also be banned. Here is a realistic real life comparison. You go to the store shopping and find a great deal on some items, so you stock up. The next day you find out that those items were made by child labor in some 3rd world sweat shop. Were they illegal for you to buy? No they were not. The company that made the items and the store that sold them would (should) be the ones held responsible.

[lokimogor]

While the witch hunters just believe that everyone who was suspended took part in the exploit, as others have said, people were banned for just buying items from the GTN. I was one of them.

 

My account was suspended Thursday morning, 2 days later I still had not received any email about why the action was taken (I never received any notification as to why the action was taken). Saturday I emailed about the account dispute, and only received a responce to it yesterday afternoon.

 

I did not take part in the expolit, so much so, that I had never even bought any of the items that could have been duplicated since 4.0 launched (I don't care at all about decorations). I did however buy a bunch of companion gifts from the GTN after they hit a low in pricing. Buying items from the GTN is not against the TOS. Both of these facts were brought up in my dispute email.

 

Here was the responce when I got a reply.

 

 

For everyone talking about how if people bought items from the GTN they should also be banned. Here is a realistic real life comparison. You go to the store shopping and find a great deal on some items, so you stock up. The next day you find out that those items were made by child labor in some 3rd world sweat shop. Were they illegal for you to buy? No they were not. The company that made the items and the store that sold them would (should) be the ones held responsible.

 

Well when you find items at that store that are selling in quanities and prices that are absurd most folks recognize an issue.

 

So apparently, you are just guilty of being stupid and not guilty of being an exploiter.

[sentientomega]

Well when you find items at that store that are selling in quanities and prices that are absurd most folks recognize an issue.

 

So apparently, you are just guilty of being stupid and not guilty of being an exploiter.

 

Most clothes are cheap, absurdly so, mostly because they're made by outsourced labour. Is everyone who buys them stupid, and should they all be charged with something, as well as have the clothes ripped from their bodies?

 

Stupidity isn't a crime, maybe you think it should be; but if it was, pretty much everyone in the world would have criminal records.

Edited December 15, 2015 by sentientomega

[Neglience]

Most clothes are cheap, absurdly so, mostly because they're made by outsourced labour. Is everyone who buys them stupid, and should they all be charged with something, as well as have the clothes ripped from their bodies?

 

Stupidity isn't a crime, maybe you think it should be; but if it was, pretty much everyone in the world would have criminal records.

 

If you want to use RL comparisons, please use one that fits.

[Divona]

I did not take part in the expolit, so much so, that I had never even bought any of the items that could have been duplicated since 4.0 launched (I don't care at all about decorations). I did however buy a bunch of companion gifts from the GTN after they hit a low in pricing. Buying items from the GTN is not against the TOS. Both of these facts were brought up in my dispute email.

 

You and many others are victims of Bioware mess. Dont even think that you are guilty about this bug. This mess went out of hand and Bioware knows this. They acted after damage was already done massively. They removed a lot of credits and items but it was impossible to go after all duplicated items that ended on GTN and got spreaded too many accounts. So how to resolve that problem?

 

1. Tag all accounts who bought those duplicated items on top of exploiting accounts

2. Since stacks are probably mixed with legit way earned items they cant remove all items - go after credits and they did so with 72h+ suspensions for those who even didnt duplicate themself

3. For some odd reason they took away random stuff from various accounts that were not even remotely tied to this mess - whole legacy gears with mods in it (that was random for some gree, others different legacy gear).

Didnt matter if items were obtained in pvev or pve activities long before this bug went viral.

 

Many dont have still a clue that Bioware was unable to revert what happened to this game. Only best option was to remove as MUCH credits as possible with commendations and trackable duped items (that is much harder). Also reset companion influences for some cases.

Also suspension severity was pretty much same for most. Example someone got 1-2m profit with reselling of items while someone else got profit 500m+ direct selling AND managed to hide all that while both ended getting 72h suspension.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Divona

[TUXs]

people need to stop comparing things that happen in a video game to real life. it's not the same. not even close.

No kidding. Some people seem to be so addicted that they have a problem differentiating real life from a video game.

The arbitrary and clumsy BS behind this *delete all credits/comms/various items* action is astonishing.

 

Saw someone lose almost 1 billion they earned from selling crafted items and a 7 day ban for a first time offence.

 

He's going to resub when hell freezes over.

 

On the other end of the farce scale someone else has about 2 billion stashed from exploiting but only lost 2 million as that was all the credits on the account when it was raided. That plus a 3 day ban was the penalty for a 3rd or 4th time offence.

 

GG

 

 

Delay fixing exploits for well over a month so it causes massive drama then cackhandedly stomp all over the place as you dish out random punishments.

 

Still, you got the cartel market releases out on time. Priorities.

Well said Gyro. Another debacle created by their own ineptitude. It demonstrates just how little they pay attention to their own product. This has GOT to be a management issue with Austin...I can't think of any other possibility for how sloppy and lazy they are there.

 

Basically, any character who has doubled their $ since the launch of 4.0, should be investigated. You can easily weed out those who were legit and those who are suspect.

[TUXs]

Well when you find items at that store that are selling in quanities and prices that are absurd most folks recognize an issue.

 

So apparently, you are just guilty of being stupid and not guilty of being an exploiter.

I hope you don't eat shrimp...

[Gyronamics]

Risking an account that has one billion credits to save a couple of millions is stupid. So if that person did exploit, he probably did use the exploit excessive and for that, he deserves the punishment. That cheating in online games can result in permanent account suspension is broad knowledge, this is not coming out of nowhere.

 

So far both of your storys are unreliable.

 

You are unbelievably obtuse. You're off on a ridiculous angle and you've got no brakes.

 

I post actual examples of punishment which varies greatly in contradiction to the reality of what they did, not even a complicated thing and it somehow goes a mile over your head and you get ranting on how a billion is an amount you can't comprehend and if they had that much they'd be pure as snow.

 

Here's a newsflash, this total deletion of currency was not a punishment previously used and while similarly incompetent the confiscation of "stuff" from previous exploits was actually linked to what was done. In this case the guy loses almost a billion which was earned before and not connected to the exploit. Meanwhile the guy who hides a couple of billion which IS from the exploit gets it ignored and a shorter ban.

 

To spell it out again I'm not for or against I'm saying it's a farce on the grounds that someone who hides their loot despite being caught previously several times ends up with virtually no punishment while someone who tries it for the first time ends up losing everything and a larger punishment because they didn't.

 

I don't believe anyone looked at the details at all, someone far more likely ran a dirty script to blanket delete currency and specific items for all accounts flagged and if quantities of currencies found were over X amount they got a longer ban. Anyone not a sub would be much more likely to get a perma ban I also have found out.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Jadescythe]

Basically, any character who has doubled their $ since the launch of 4.0, should be investigated. You can easily weed out those who were legit and those who are suspect.

 

I have far more than double the credits I had prior to 4.0. I did a lot of raiding and sold a lot of DMCs. Credits are so much easier to obtain since the expansion that investigating all those players would take a significant amount of time.

[TUXs]

I have far more than double the credits I had prior to 4.0. I did a lot of raiding and sold a lot of DMCs. Credits are so much easier to obtain since the expansion that investigating all those players would take a significant amount of time.

Then they should examine your account. Depending on how much you've made, they should be able to get an idea of if it's legit or not. You didn't become a crafting guru overnight.

[Divona]

Basically, any character who has doubled their $ since the launch of 4.0, should be investigated. You can easily weed out those who were legit and those who are suspect.

 

Nope. It is easy to make credits in this game as long you have lots of alts. Doubling credits total amount when new big update goes live is very easy if you are smart enough. Going over all those accounts based on this metric will take WEEKS to investigate. Its not logical and too much time consuming knowing how little Bioware has staff left for this game.

What could have been done is to check early reports that were sent out many weeks ago. Also when that post with youtube video ended here on forums until it was deleted, then game should have been taken down and fixed it fast. Since Bioware does not act so fast or make hotfix like many other AAA titles then here lies the problem that will continue in the future with swtor. Waiting for a regular patch day to fix bug tells us a lot. It is a problem how this team operates and manages live servers. It is probably a policy who makes a decision how to act and when.

[TUXs]

Nope. It is easy to make credits in this game as long you have lots of alts. Doubling credits total amount when new big update goes live is very easy if you are smart enough. Going over all those accounts based on this metric will take WEEKS to investigate. Its not logical and too much time consuming knowing how little Bioware has staff left for this game.

What could have been done is to check early reports that were sent out many weeks ago. Also when that post with youtube video ended here on forums until it was deleted, then game should have been taken down and fixed it fast. Since Bioware does not act so fast or make hotfix like many other AAA titles then here lies the problem that will continue in the future with swtor. Waiting for a regular patch day to fix bug tells us a lot. It is a problem how this team operates and manages live servers. It is probably a policy who makes a decision how to act and when.

 

If you've been playing for a year, and suddenly double your credits in 6-weeks, it's suspicious and no excuse you give me would make me not investigate you.

[Divona]

If you've been playing for a year, and suddenly double your credits in 6-weeks, it's suspicious and no excuse you give me would make me not investigate you.

 

Then you have no idea how players make credits. All you need is a lot free time and smart thinking or planning if new major expansion is released. It takes more time after new major content update has been available for longer period for obvious reasons.

[TX_Angel]

It certainly looks that way...

 

But then, why would you buy them from the GTN? Save your credits, spend your comms at the Odessen vendor. You can pretty much travel there the instant you get a ship...

 

No, you can't. You used to be able to, but they removed that feature.

[Makillda]

If you've been playing for a year, and suddenly double your credits in 6-weeks, it's suspicious and no excuse you give me would make me not investigate you.

 

I realize you are posting this absurdity to try and make a point but I will play along. I have almost 10 times the credits now than when 4.0 dropped. I started with just over a million and now have a bit over 12 million on hand. My account was created in March 2012. This is the most cash I have ever had in game because I don't farm credits. I don't buy gambling packs to flip. I don't play gtn pvp. All of this came from running SFs and heroics and selling extra hilts, barrels and mounts as well as the metric ton of cash you make grinding for Alliance rep. It's not even that much but more than meets your arbitrary level to warrant an investigation.

 

Investigate me all you want. Same name as forum on Shadowlands. Knock yourself out.

[TUXs]

Then you have no idea how players make credits. All you need is a lot free time and smart thinking or planning if new major expansion is released. It takes more time after new major content update has been available for longer period for obvious reasons.

You're right, I suck at making credits...but I have a better idea of how to do it than anyone at Bioware does...and I'm not stupid.

 

If you go a full year with say, 30 million credits, then 4.0 hits and suddenly in 6 weeks time you have 60-250+million, you look suspicious to me. They should investigate everything you've bought and sold to look for exploiting. Once they pull your logs, it'll be easy to determine legit from exploiters. The trail is there...Bioware just needs to follow it.

[TUXs]

I realize you are posting this absurdity to try and make a point but I will play along. I have almost 10 times the credits now than when 4.0 dropped. I started with just over a million and now have a bit over 12 million on hand. My account was created in March 2012. This is the most cash I have ever had in game because I don't farm credits. I don't buy gambling packs to flip. I don't play gtn pvp. All of this came from running SFs and heroics and selling extra hilts, barrels and mounts as well as the metric ton of cash you make grinding for Alliance rep. It's not even that much but more than meets your arbitrary level to warrant an investigation.

 

Investigate me all you want. Same name as forum on Shadowlands. Knock yourself out.

You're amount is inconsequential, you'd be weeded out by common sense.

[Jadescythe]

Then they should examine your account. Depending on how much you've made, they should be able to get an idea of if it's legit or not. You didn't become a crafting guru overnight.

 

I don't craft anything. I literally get a DMC a night doing HM raids. So I make 1.2-1.5 million a night from selling it every time I raid. You also get a couple hundre thousand just from going through KotFE. Heroics are grinded by everyone as part of the story, so everyone has more credits.

 

If anyone is making less credits than pre-4.0 they must have stopped playing the game.

[TX_Angel]

I don't craft anything. I literally get a DMC a night doing HM raids. So I make 1.2-1.5 million a night from selling it every time I raid. You also get a couple hundre thousand just from going through KotFE. Heroics are grinded by everyone as part of the story, so everyone has more credits.

 

If anyone is making less credits than pre-4.0 they must have stopped playing the game.

 

Yes, and it would take about 15 sec to see that you've run 25 ops and 100 heroics in the past 30 days, in which case your credits are probably fine.

 

TUXs did not say everyone who doubled credits was an exploiter, he said that was a good place to start looking. Maybe double is too low, quadruple might be a better place.

 

But his general point is a fair one.

[Theeko]

Yes, and it would take about 15 sec to see that you've run 25 ops and 100 heroics in the past 30 days, in which case your credits are probably fine.

 

TUXs did not say everyone who doubled credits was an exploiter, he said that was a good place to start looking. Maybe double is too low, quadruple might be a better place.

 

But his general point is a fair one.

 

What about those that only made a fraction of what they had before 4.0?

[Jadescythe]

Yes, and it would take about 15 sec to see that you've run 25 ops and 100 heroics in the past 30 days, in which case your credits are probably fine.

 

TUXs did not say everyone who doubled credits was an exploiter, he said that was a good place to start looking. Maybe double is too low, quadruple might be a better place.

 

But his general point is a fair one.

 

I have probably 20-30x the credits I had prior to 3.0. I suspect anyone raiding regularly or participating in the Heroic grind is in the same boat. It would be a huge waste of resources to look through all of those accounts for no reason. Far easier to check for those who bought stacks of items multiple times and trace the items from there.

[TUXs]

I have probably 20-30x the credits I had prior to 3.0. I suspect anyone raiding regularly or participating in the Heroic grind is in the same boat. It would be a huge waste of resources to look through all of those accounts for no reason. Far easier to check for those who bought stacks of items multiple times and trace the items from there.

They're doing it anyway Jade. They're trying to catch the exploiters and the people who laundered the credits as well. How would you look? Where would YOU start? It's not just the damn rep items, it's the billions in credits that have flooded the game and been siphoned off that they also need to track down. It's the guy on his legit account who listed some green trash item for sale for 10,000,000 that he buys from the exploiting account that I want to catch.

 

What about those that only made a fraction of what they had before 4.0?

You know that would depend on how much we're talking. If you've been playing for 4-years and have 150mil and suddenly shoot up by an additional 100mil with 4.0, obviously that throws up a flag as well.

Edited December 15, 2015 by TUXs

[Jadescythe]

They're doing it anyway Jade. They're trying to catch the exploiters and the people who laundered the credits as well. How would you look? Where would YOU start? It's not just the damn rep items, it's the billions in credits that have flooded the game and been siphoned off that they also need to track down. It's the guy on his legit account who listed some green trash item for sale for 10,000,000 that he buys from the exploiting account that I want to catch.

 

 

You know that would depend on how much we're talking. If you've been playing for 4-years and have 150mil and suddenly shoot up by an additional 100mil with 4.0, obviously that throws up a flag as well.

 

If you find where the stuff was bought, you can trace where it went without having to search by credit amount.

[TUXs]

If you find where the stuff was bought, you can trace where it went without having to search by credit amount.

That's certainly one way they have to look, but they also need to look for the guys who've doubled+ their credits during the exploit. It's stupid not to. They need to find the MAIN accounts that have profited from this.

Edited December 15, 2015 by TUXs