Item Stack Resale Exploit

[Deyjarl]

They did a quick temp-ban on anyone they caught in order to start 'locking down' the problem, but that doesn't mean that initial temp ban is the final word for any account they identified.

 

If you read his reddit post, he had already got his temp ban notice prior to the suspension warning.

[Stradlin]

IPs, regular stronghold use,

I'm gonna assume they won't take stuff like this into account. In BW's banhammering books, I recon every account that shares one and same IP with a banned one needs to be an account of a brother or a sister or a wife or a flatmate etc. Unless proven otherwise ofc.

 

I was pleasantly surprised about BW underlining how they are going after laundered creds as well. Otherwise, it'd just be the hmm, " casual exploiter" who gets hammered, while people who were more ambitious and serious about this all would have gotten away with billions. For anyone involved, it is utterly irrelevant if BW hands out some one week bans or not. But I rly hope they manage to trace most of the laundered creds properly. That is the only important bit here.

 

It is utterly ridiculous such an incredibly basic and easy exploit was allowed to remain in-game for such a long time. Specially if it really was reported during some beta or early access. Based by description of the exploit, I'm sure hundreds of people ended up doing it once or twice by mistake without ever even noticing. It doesn't exactly seem to require some obscure complex chain of hops through flaming rings to pull off.

 

For six weeks, a very normal, basic action was broken enough to make people billionaires. If anyone with BW tag under their names at any moment blames anyone but themselves for this BS, I mean to take bit of an insult out of it. If anyone within community blames anyone except BW out of this, you are barking at a wrong tree. Some attempted guilt trip about community " causing" BW to lose 100k bux due to " forcing bans" made a really absurd read lol.

 

Car left by the street on Friday 1 AM, engine running, door open. For a while, people keep checking licence plate and calling up the owner. "Dude, your car is gonna get stolen. Pls sort it out" Owner ignores all this. Nothing happens, and car ain't there six weeks later. - > SOCIETY IS BROKEN!

Edited December 12, 2015 by Stradlin

[TX_Angel]

They did a quick temp-ban on anyone they caught in order to start 'locking down' the problem, but that doesn't mean that initial temp ban is the final word for any account they identified.

 

Eric specifically mentioned they'd continue to look at exploiting accounts and increase the sanctions as they identify which ones were particularly serious violators:

 

Those Reddit posters' jubilation at only receiving a 'slap on the wrist' may be a bit premature.

 

^ Quite true... but while I can clearly see the problem in the economy, I would toss out the question of how much dev time will now be spent on this over the next few weeks, instead of working on new content.

 

This could have all been avoided had the exploit been stopped much sooner.

[Theeko]

Yeah really should've patched it within the first hour or less

[sxykitten]

does this mean you'll actually do something lol? nah doubtful still got few guys on youtube laughing at you showcasing the billions they exploited & are throwing out into the community to destroy & they even youtube it....

 

 

doubt you'll fix this issue when billions are already out there still

[Halinalle]

Why? because someone made lots of credits?

If someone quits over this, they already made up their mind and just needed an excuse.

 

This strongman act is getting ridiculous. Just ban the offenders and be done. Obviously some folks at BW have lots of time to spare, how about they use it to test the game before the next patch is released?

 

Do you really think gift vendor is the only one?

 

If only...

[LordStarFyre]

Not 100% sure a permanent ban will help or is the way to go.

 

Maybe, apart from taking back cash, items, influence etc, I'd suggest a debuff (-5% on all stats) , ban from gtn (for 1-8 weeks), and a "Cheater" title always visible! Rather than losing your subs, make them suffer in-game!

 

Go one better, put their PVP flag Open and locked, and drop their level to 20 something, so even a badly geared 30 something can remind them why Cheating is a bad thing...

[Maori_Guy]

I read people blaming BW and raging about a broken game with no new content and waaa waaa wa,

 

Exploiters getting a kick in the butt just makes me smile.

 

If you see a baby with something that you want and you take it. Don't blame the mother for making the baby vulnerable. How about you not be a selfish A hole.

 

Ban em all I say. Those of us who don't need exploits who enjoy the journey the long way round are watching, smiling and will return to our beloved game with all its issues and problems because we enjoy playing.

[Shrekmom]

Looking at how many you missed last time i have no faith in this.

[Deyjarl]

I'm gonna assume they won't take stuff like this into account. In BW's banhammering books, I recon every account that shares one and same IP with a banned one needs to be an account of a brother or a sister or a wife or a flatmate etc.

 

#facepalm They aren't going to ban just because of the shared IP. I didn't say that. But it does give them places to look and investigate transactions.

[Eanelinea]

People seem to forget. Doesn't matter if it's Bioware's fault or not. Doesn't matter if they caught it and fixed it on day 1 or day 99. The point is, don't exploit or cheat.

 

Majority of people in this game are adults, no one needs to be told 'don't touch that'...or DO they?

[DawnAskham]

People seem to forget. Doesn't matter if it's Bioware's fault or not. Doesn't matter if they caught it and fixed it on day 1 or day 99. The point is, don't exploit or cheat.

 

Majority of people in this game are adults, no one needs to be told 'don't touch that'...or DO they?

 

There are two issues here - one of which IMO is more important than the other for the overall health of the game.

 

The primary issue is Bioware's failure to manage the game, mostly by their demonstrated lack of ability to identify and correct these types of issues in hours or days instead of leaving them festering for weeks.

 

We've seen time and time again that these issues make it to live (QA failures), get reported in the first few days (possibly even reported during testing), and yet nothing happens other than any threads mentioning the issue get deleted from the forums.

 

It is only after the exploit becomes so large and well know that players are actively discussing it in game and across social media along with posting "how-to" videos on youtube do they finally address the issue.

 

The secondary issue is what actions to take to accounts which exploited the issue.

 

And on this point, I'm happy to see it appears they are trying to remove as much of the exploited items and credits from the economy while ensuring players who exploited are not allowed to retain any ill-gotten gains.

 

However, the damage has already been done to the game's economy and no amount of triage is going to 'fix' everything which was affected by the exploit.

 

And this is why the post I'd like to see is one along the lines of "We apologize for this incident, and will be taking the following actions to improve our processes to ensure this type of incident does not happen in the future."

 

But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for such a post.

 

Oh and if they had fixed it on day one, there most likley wouldn't be anyone to action nor would any of us even know such an exploit existed.

Edited December 12, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Stradlin]

People seem to forget. Doesn't matter if it's Bioware's fault or not. Doesn't matter if they caught it and fixed it on day 1 or day 99. The point is, don't exploit or cheat.

 

Majority of people in this game are adults, no one needs to be told 'don't touch that'...or DO they?

 

Something like " don't exploit or cheat" works much worse here than it does in real world. And it works pretty badly in real world as it is. Some terribly valuable, pretty subjective " don't be evul:) don't cheat!:)" type of life advice isn't going to achieve anything at all here.

 

If there is a lucrative, easy and tempting method to exploit, some people always will. It is for Bioware to make sure such things don't get past beta tests where people began reporting it. Failing that, it'd be BW's job to ensure such things don't survive through Early access. Failing that, it'd be nice if it got fixed a BIT faster than 50 days in live, heh.

BW doesn't like having to perma ban paying customers. The glacier-like speed with which they reacted and responded here cost them hundreds of thousands, maybe even million bub in lost subs, lost CM purchases, etc.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Week ago I sold the last remaining unbound Korrealis Commander in Europe for 50 mil through gtn. Now I am worried it was bought by the exploiter. Even though the item is worth 50-100 mil I am affraid that they gonna take the money away from me (if it was bought by someone exploiting) and not even return the mount. =[

 

 

Anyway I am extremely glad that they're going to punish money launderers because A LOT of these guys got away with crapton of credits after Temple Chair exploit. Thumbs up! Just make sure you handle it fairly and compensate any mistakes properly!

 

I also agree that it is player's responsibility not to exploit. Those excuses along the lines "it's Bioware's fault" are ridiculous and childish. As much as I hate using real life references, irl you'd never get away with excuses like that either. Unless there is something wrong with your head.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Alec_Fortescue

[Caddaver]

It's been interesting reading so far...from all sides. As a retired game developer it's been interesting reading. Everyone can pitch a gripe about BW not taking care of business, but as most of you are aware there's more to game developing than what you see. I see alot of the blame game here, nothing new of course, especially when it comes to Bioware. We have some great players out there that love playing the game for what it is and of course there are those that take advantage of whatever "bug or exploit" there is for their own gain. Whether it be financial, obtaining gear...crossing into areas that are not supposed to go because they are told by the developers not do that etc. There are so many reasons that people can go by. I took a lot of heat from the community when I was in the "business" and it wasn't fun at first. I took alot of the complaints and issues to heart trying my best to work with the team to resolve in game issues..an impossible task. My stress levels were off the charts, but I learned over time that you can't resolve everything and there will never be a perfect product out there.

 

Just ask the coders out there....I'm sure that they can write code perfectly and not create bugs....not! Blame Bioware all you want, but the problem is with the folks that knowingly took advantage of this exploit! But everyone says "Hey Bioware...you should have fixed it then this wouldn't have happened." The economy of these type of games is critical for the developers, again, most of you know this...but to actively and knowingly be a part of an exploit...guess what? It's the players fault and responsibility, take your lumps and go to prison!

[Theeko]

I just saw no reason why someone should need to exploit / dupe in the first place anyway its to easy to make creds now a days even before 4.0, before 4.0 people made billions legitimately

[Danery]

It's been interesting reading so far...from all sides. As a retired game developer it's been interesting reading. Everyone can pitch a gripe about BW not taking care of business, but as most of you are aware there's more to game developing than what you see. I see alot of the blame game here, nothing new of course, especially when it comes to Bioware. We have some great players out there that love playing the game for what it is and of course there are those that take advantage of whatever "bug or exploit" there is for their own gain. Whether it be financial, obtaining gear...crossing into areas that are not supposed to go because they are told by the developers not do that etc. There are so many reasons that people can go by. I took a lot of heat from the community when I was in the "business" and it wasn't fun at first. I took alot of the complaints and issues to heart trying my best to work with the team to resolve in game issues..an impossible task. My stress levels were off the charts, but I learned over time that you can't resolve everything and there will never be a perfect product out there.

 

Just ask the coders out there....I'm sure that they can write code perfectly and not create bugs....not! Blame Bioware all you want, but the problem is with the folks that knowingly took advantage of this exploit! But everyone says "Hey Bioware...you should have fixed it then this wouldn't have happened." The economy of these type of games is critical for the developers, again, most of you know this...but to actively and knowingly be a part of an exploit...guess what? It's the players fault and responsibility, take your lumps and go to prison!

 

The problem isnt that there are bugs, its how long it takes to fix those bugs. Six Weeks is kind of ridiculous. If you cant come up with a quick fix, you remove those items which are causing the explot and apologize to the player base and explain why you are taking it out of the game until it can be fixed. They didn't do that with the Temple Chair Exploit and they didnt do it this time.

 

That absolutely does not excuse the exploiters though. And unlike some of the previous exploits (Ravagers for example) these particular types of exploits tend to affect the entire community by driving the price of goods up through inflation. So I'm glad they are taking action against the exploiters. Doesn't mean that Bioware cant also be blamed for failing to act more quickly, even in a temporary way.

[DawnAskham]

It's been interesting reading so far...from all sides. As a retired game developer it's been interesting reading. Everyone can pitch a gripe about BW not taking care of business, but as most of you are aware there's more to game developing than what you see. I see alot of the blame game here, nothing new of course, especially when it comes to Bioware. We have some great players out there that love playing the game for what it is and of course there are those that take advantage of whatever "bug or exploit" there is for their own gain. Whether it be financial, obtaining gear...crossing into areas that are not supposed to go because they are told by the developers not do that etc. There are so many reasons that people can go by. I took a lot of heat from the community when I was in the "business" and it wasn't fun at first. I took alot of the complaints and issues to heart trying my best to work with the team to resolve in game issues..an impossible task. My stress levels were off the charts, but I learned over time that you can't resolve everything and there will never be a perfect product out there.

 

Just ask the coders out there....I'm sure that they can write code perfectly and not create bugs....not! Blame Bioware all you want, but the problem is with the folks that knowingly took advantage of this exploit! But everyone says "Hey Bioware...you should have fixed it then this wouldn't have happened." The economy of these type of games is critical for the developers, again, most of you know this...but to actively and knowingly be a part of an exploit...guess what? It's the players fault and responsibility, take your lumps and go to prison!

 

Players who exploited are responsible for their own actions, no excuses. That much is true.

 

However, the root issue is BIoware's poor performance when it comes to identifying and correcting these issues in a timely manner, not players exploiting bugs.

 

Player who did not exploit have been harmed by the damage done, and no amount of action against exploiters on Bioware's part will undo that harm.

 

And while no code will ever be 100% free from bugs all the time, it is incredulous to hear some of the apologists defend Bioware and their failure time and again to identify and remedy these types of issues in a timely manner.

Edited December 12, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Sathid]

Quit blaming BW these people are adults,what because the salesperson at the jewelry store is not there you think it is ok to just help yourself?

 

i bet the judge would have a laugh on that,there is no excuse for theft or breaking the TOS and these people knew exactly what they were doing and should have ALL accounts banned associated with their IP or that they moved their ill gotten gains.

 

These people that cheated you would likely not not want employed,be a co worker or have as a roommate etc,,it's just not civil in any form and it affects others what they did,in psychology they are called sociopaths.

[Sathid]

People seem to forget. Doesn't matter if it's Bioware's fault or not. Doesn't matter if they caught it and fixed it on day 1 or day 99. The point is, don't exploit or cheat.

 

Majority of people in this game are adults, no one needs to be told 'don't touch that'...or DO they?

 

Exactly.

[Danery]

Quit blaming BW these people are adults,what because the salesperson at the jewelry store is not there you think it is ok to just help yourself?

 

i bet the judge would have a laugh on that,there is no excuse for theft or breaking the TOS and these people knew exactly what they were doing and should have ALL accounts banned associated with their IP or that they moved their ill gotten gains.

 

These people that cheated you would likely not not want employed,be a co worker or have as a roommate etc,,it's just not civil in any form and it affects others what they did,in psychology they are called sociopaths.

 

The people who exploited definitely should be punished but if you think Bioware shares no blame when they left the exploit in for six weeks you are extremely ridiculous.

[Sathid]

The people who exploited definitely should be punished but if you think Bioware shares no blame when they left the exploit in for six weeks you are extremely ridiculous.

 

I will compromise on that and say partly,but that's as far as i will go imo.

[Makillda]

The people who exploited definitely should be punished but if you think Bioware shares no blame when they left the exploit in for six weeks you are extremely ridiculous.

 

Good lord, people. You took the action. You made the decision to abuse an exploit. IT IS YOUR FAULT, NOBODY ELSE'S, if you get punished for it.

[Nomaad]

Good lord, people. You took the action. You made the decision to abuse an exploit. IT IS YOUR FAULT, NOBODY ELSE'S, if you get punished for it.

 

Yah, its not like this exploit got reported in the first week of the expansion or anything.

[EarnestBunbury]

Hey folks,

 

As of today’s patch, we fixed the following bug: It is no longer possible to purchase a stack of items and resell individual items for the price of the entire stack.

 

In a previous exploit, we were very up front and very public about its existence. We raised warnings as soon as we discovered the issue associated with the Temple Chair, with the hopes our players would not use it. What we discovered, were many players using a variety of ways to try and mask what they were doing and who they were. So, this time, we returned to removing visibility until we resolved it.

 

This bug created an exploit where a player could make large quantities of various currencies in the game with minimal effort. Use of the bug in this manner is something we absolutely consider an exploit. We are looking over the data of players who participated, and to what degree. We will begin taking action against accounts within the next few days. Action that will be taken includes:

• Suspension, up to and including permanent suspension
  
• Removal of credits
  
• Removal of Commendations and other currency
  
• Removal of Companion affection
  

I can only reiterate, if you discover an exploit, do not use it. Report it to the team immediately. You can do so via an in-game /bug or feel free to PM myself or Tait about it on the forums. Please, do not post about it publicly.

 

Thanks everyone. I will pass on updates as I have them.

 

-eric

 

You people need to be fired