Item Stack Resale Exploit

[Deyjarl]

 

We can see that in many of these cases, accounts have not only intentionally laundered credits through their guilds

-eric

 

What about guilds that were actively participating, and using it to up their conquest rankings. You could see large numbers of members of ranked guilds standing around the vendor for hours.

 

If a guild leader and significant number of officers and members were participating, that guild should be stripped and dissolved, and the leadership banned.

[CloudCastle]

Are they going to be able to tell the difference between people who bought stuff off the GTN that the exploiters were selling and these alt accounts that were used for laundering?

 

I don't like the thought that just using the GTN could result in random people being swept up into this. Hopefully they know what they are doing and have ways of telling the difference. I have no way of knowing if I bought from an exploiter, but I did buy 2 stacks of companion gifts recently. Just the fact that the person was selling them in full stacks at all, and lower than many of the other pages of sellers, makes me suspicious. It is safe for me to use these gifts?

[Deyjarl]

Wonder what happened to some of the posters vehemently denying this exploit existed. How many of them were participating.

[Deyjarl]

I am really concerned by the statement that they are going to strip credits from accounts that were not in any way involved simply because someone who exploited might have bought their stuff.

 

Where did they say that specifically.

 

Sounds like they are only targeting those who participated actively, or assisted actively.

 

You don't fit either of those. The person who bought your stuff loses out, not you.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If they had my view, there wouldn't have been any punishments. And I don't see anything broken about economy that needs fixing.

 

Right just do nothing for cheats, thanks for helping me to realize I need to ignore everything you ever post again.

[Deyjarl]

Are they going to be able to tell the difference between people who bought stuff off the GTN that the exploiters were selling and these alt accounts that were used for laundering?

 

IPs, regular stronghold use, billing information (if the person is that dumb).

[Deyjarl]

via reddit

It's both sad and sort of funny.

Watching multiple people just poof offline, then check guild forums to find:

MY ONLY REGRET IS STOPPING AT HALF A BILLION, HIDDEN BETTER THAN MADOFF! SEE YOU WHEN THE LOLTEMPBAN ENDS ******ES.

 

Sigh.......

Edited December 12, 2015 by Deyjarl

[idnewton]

Hey folks,

 

One of the things we have seen a lot of questions and comments about is what we are doing about accounts which have actively participated in helping exploiters to launder their ill-gotten gains. We are actively investigating these accounts, and we are doing so just as vigorously as the exploiters themselves. In situations that we have found players not only exploited, but are then trying to hide their actions through laundering, we are increasing the severity of the action we take against them. You can see examples of the action we are taking in my previous post.

 

We can see that in many of these cases, accounts have not only intentionally laundered credits through their guilds and friends, but that they have sent credits and items randomly to other accounts in an attempt to throw off our data. If you received credits or items through trade or in-game mail, and you feel that they were sent to you from someone who likely exploited, leave the items/credits alone. Don’t try to return them or send them to other accounts.

 

Additionally, feel free to PM me your information:

• Character name and server

• What you received

 

For users that we can identify as being unintentional recipients, they will have the items/credits stripped, it is unlikely further action will be taken.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Hey, just so you know, I log in about twice a week... so on the off-chance that some jerk mails money to me to try and frame me (which would not even remotely surprise me), don't hold it against me if I don't report the jerk immediately. Hopefully you can check my login history to verify this, though.

Edited December 12, 2015 by idnewton

[MeNaCe-NZ]

neither here nor there, however, who decides what a "fair market rate" is? If I post something for 15m and you buy it (even by accident because you are too stupid to check the price or sort by unit price), that is the "fair market rate".

 

They'll most likely just look at the average price items go for on each server and look for anything X percent above that rate warrants further investigation.

 

On a side note I personally would find it rather humorous if those people who list single mats in the millions got caught up in this and had credits removed, poetic justice of sorts.

[CloudCastle]

IPs, regular stronghold use, billing information (if the person is that dumb).

 

Ok, that makes sense. I feel a little better. Although I can't figure out how stronghold use factors in.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Are they going to be able to tell the difference between people who bought stuff off the GTN that the exploiters were selling and these alt accounts that were used for laundering?

 

I don't like the thought that just using the GTN could result in random people being swept up into this. Hopefully they know what they are doing and have ways of telling the difference. I have no way of knowing if I bought from an exploiter, but I did buy 2 stacks of companion gifts recently. Just the fact that the person was selling them in full stacks at all, and lower than many of the other pages of sellers, makes me suspicious. It is safe for me to use these gifts?

 

You've got to look at it relatively really.

 

Someone exploits and generates a billion credits. This is known so the activity from there can be tracked.

 

Were they buying random things from random people on the GTN?

If so probably nothing will happen as it would be really hard to track down those credits ( which may in turn have been spent ) and return the items back to the legit sellers. The cheater gets banned, gets credits and everything they brought ( stuff it, take their whole inventory ) removed and then if they sent any purchases to anyone else that person in turn gets red flagged and investigated.

 

The only way I imagine you run the risk of any action or credit removal via GTN sales is if your activity was significantly above your logged normal activity.

That is if you've played long term and normally you hover around the 100 million mark but in the past 6 weeks you jumped up to 300 million+ then yes you will probably be looked at as to how that happened.

 

The thing is if you had access to all the data BW will have following trends etc. won't really be that difficult to see things that are out of the norm.

 

If all you do is sell things for the normal amount you sell them for and maybe you sold things a bit quicker as cheaters tried to launder their credits I think you'd be safe because I can guarantee a large portion of regular GTN sellers would have had cheaters buy their stuff over these 6 weeks ... it's looking at activities outside of the norm is where I imagine BW will focus.

[sentientomega]

IPs, regular stronghold use, billing information (if the person is that dumb).

 

Why regular stronghold use? Because of legacy banks?

 

And why billing information? To see if alt accounts shared the same details?

Edited December 12, 2015 by sentientomega

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Why regular stronghold use? Because of legacy banks?

 

And why billing information? To see if alt accounts shared the same details?

 

Billing information because you would ideally have to make a subscriber mule account for this to work or do it in many chunks of 100K or whatever the f2p limit is which isn't really feasible.

 

It's a good point actually as I hadn't thought of billing information as tracking.

 

In saying that they could have made free accounts and just have it sitting in escrow for the future when it dies down then sub those accounts and BOOM rich.

[DarthDymond]

That was someone already caught just getting a temp ban for all that.

They did a quick temp-ban on anyone they caught in order to start 'locking down' the problem, but that doesn't mean that initial temp ban is the final word for any account they identified.

 

Eric specifically mentioned they'd continue to look at exploiting accounts and increase the sanctions as they identify which ones were particularly serious violators:

As of this afternoon we have sent out our initial set of warnings, suspensions, and permanent bans for accounts participating in this exploit. I say initial, because it was important to action the accounts and prevent any further damage to the economy.

 

During their suspension time we will be continuing to investigate any account involved, and taking further action based on the egregious level of the offense. These actions can include:

• Further suspension time, up to and including permanent ban
  
• Removal of all credits
  
• Removal of all commendations
  
• Resetting of all Influence gained with Companions
  
• Resetting of all influence gained with Base Commanders
  
• Removal of items purchased or gained via exploit

Those Reddit posters' jubilation at only receiving a 'slap on the wrist' may be a bit premature.

Edited December 12, 2015 by DarthDymond

[Danery]

Where did they say that specifically.

 

Sounds like they are only targeting those who participated actively, or assisted actively.

 

You don't fit either of those. The person who bought your stuff loses out, not you.

 

For users that we can identify as being unintentional recipients, they will have the items/credits stripped, it is unlikely further action will be taken.

 

I do not know if that means that they are going to go after the credits the egregious offenders might have spent on items from unknowing bystanders or not. But it is concerning me that its a possibility. I have been listing my stuff at whatever the current asking price is for a few weeks now and my stuff has been selling rather quickly. I just hope that doesnt mean the exploiters were buying my stuff and that i might possibly lose the money I've made despite not doing anything wrong other than having piss poor luck if my stuff was bought by exploiters

[Lord_Sleepy]

I do not know if that means that they are going to go after the credits the egregious offenders might have spent on items from unknowing bystanders or not. But it is concerning me that its a possibility. I have been listing my stuff at whatever the current asking price is for a few weeks now and my stuff has been selling rather quickly. I just hope that doesnt mean the exploiters were buying my stuff and that i might possibly lose the money I've made despite not doing anything wrong other than having piss poor luck if my stuff was bought by exploiters

 

He was referring to people sending you credits and items, as some have mentioned happening to them. Not actioning the people legitimately selling items on the gtn, like in a drug bust, say a dealer used the money to buy a car, they will take the car but not take the dealerships funds. That was my take from what he said.

[Eanelinea]

Ok, that makes sense. I feel a little better. Although I can't figure out how stronghold use factors in.

 

Could be one of two things: 1. you constantly decorate/redecorate your stronghold whenever new packs come out. You purchase decorations and begin going Martha Stewart in your stronghold (I do this ALL the time)

 

2. You have a decorated stronghold and you go there alot to use your legacy bank. (I do this because I have sooooooooo many alts that using my legacy bank is easier for me)

 

I would ASSUME that's regular stronghold use.

[Eanelinea]

You've got to look at it relatively really.

 

Someone exploits and generates a billion credits. This is known so the activity from there can be tracked.

 

Were they buying random things from random people on the GTN?

If so probably nothing will happen as it would be really hard to track down those credits ( which may in turn have been spent ) and return the items back to the legit sellers. The cheater gets banned, gets credits and everything they brought ( stuff it, take their whole inventory ) removed and then if they sent any purchases to anyone else that person in turn gets red flagged and investigated.

 

The only way I imagine you run the risk of any action or credit removal via GTN sales is if your activity was significantly above your logged normal activity.

That is if you've played long term and normally you hover around the 100 million mark but in the past 6 weeks you jumped up to 300 million+ then yes you will probably be looked at as to how that happened.

 

The thing is if you had access to all the data BW will have following trends etc. won't really be that difficult to see things that are out of the norm.

 

If all you do is sell things for the normal amount you sell them for and maybe you sold things a bit quicker as cheaters tried to launder their credits I think you'd be safe because I can guarantee a large portion of regular GTN sellers would have had cheaters buy their stuff over these 6 weeks ... it's looking at activities outside of the norm is where I imagine BW will focus.

 

Exactly, as I've always said, especially with Bioware where they NEED to keep track of things due to story, class, companion, achievements, etc. They know EVERY SINGLE THING YOU DO in the game.

 

If you have made and ran characters through the stories 100 times, they know that is YOU.

 

If you make your millions/billions but slowly over the course of years/months, they know that is YOU.

 

Etc.

 

They have a record of every single thing in the game you do/have done. They might not keep it for years and years, but they DO keep track for whatever amount of time they do so.

[Darkside]

So they've banned 500+ accounts already. Assuming they were subs that is almost a $100K profit loss a year, and that is not counting the cartel purchases those accounts might have made. Now they are getting ready to increase their dragnet, because they think a lot players are p!ssed off about the exploit and expecting them to take action. The devs lately have been trying to do these little things to make up for their general lack of communications, but all we are really doing is just painting them into a corner.

 

If complainers keep it up, all you will accomplish is innocent players getting banned, and canceling because they are pissed. You will also force Bioware to keep the punishments harsh which will help destroy their profits and ultimately hasten the death of this game. As if we don't have enough things to be mad about as players today, why make things worse?

Edited December 12, 2015 by Darkside

[lokimogor]

So they've banned 500+ accounts already. Assuming they were subs that is almost a $100K profit loss a year, and that is not counting the cartel purchases those accounts might have made. Now they are getting ready to increase their dragnet, because they think a lot players are p!ssed off about the exploit and expecting them to take action. The devs lately have been trying to do these little things to make up for their general lack of communications in general, but we are really just painting them into a corner.

 

If complainers keep it up, all you will accomplish is innocent players getting banned, and canceling because they are pissed. You will also force Bioware to keep the punishments harsh which will help destroy their profits and ultimately hasten the death of this game. As if we don't have enough things to be mad about, as players today, why make things worse?

 

This is a common game practice, failing to do this action will get a lot a significant number more then 500 subscribers to call it quits.

[Darkside]

This is a common game practice, failing to do this action will get a lot a significant number more then 500 subscribers to call it quits.

 

 

And they aren't already with all the lack of content, lack of mmo elements, and the insane buff/nerfs/bugs done to the game? Prior to the exploit, not many people were happy.

[Mubrak]

This is a common game practice, failing to do this action will get a lot a significant number more then 500 subscribers to call it quits.

 

Why? because someone made lots of credits?

If someone quits over this, they already made up their mind and just needed an excuse.

 

This strongman act is getting ridiculous. Just ban the offenders and be done. Obviously some folks at BW have lots of time to spare, how about they use it to test the game before the next patch is released?

Edited December 12, 2015 by Mubrak

[Xo-Lara]

I do not know if that means that they are going to go after the credits the egregious offenders might have spent on items from unknowing bystanders or not. But it is concerning me that its a possibility. I have been listing my stuff at whatever the current asking price is for a few weeks now and my stuff has been selling rather quickly. I just hope that doesnt mean the exploiters were buying my stuff and that i might possibly lose the money I've made despite not doing anything wrong other than having piss poor luck if my stuff was bought by exploiters

 

They probably won't do that since it will penalize people for things they have no control over. The credits are just in the system to a certain extent. However, we'll feel this later in some kind of credit sink way. Though, I doubt the inflation from it will break the economy terribly much more than it already is broken. MMO economies just tend to be broken from what I've seen.

[Deyjarl]

I do not know if that means that they are going to go after the credits the egregious offenders might have spent on items from unknowing bystanders or not. But it is concerning me that its a possibility. I have been listing my stuff at whatever the current asking price is for a few weeks now and my stuff has been selling rather quickly. I just hope that doesnt mean the exploiters were buying my stuff and that i might possibly lose the money I've made despite not doing anything wrong other than having piss poor luck if my stuff was bought by exploiters

 

The exploiters were sending funds and items out to random people to try to hide their activities. I got the impression that they are only going to take that money away, if the person actually took it rather than reporting.

[Deyjarl]

Why? because someone made lots of credits?

 

Because the game isn't doing anything about rampant exploiting.

 

I'd leave if they weren't doing anything. I don't want to need to cheat to be able to buy anything from the inflation it causes.