You really need to learn the difference between what exploit means and what you are describing. Yes some of the things you mention such as climbing invisible walls would qualify as getting out of the map and funny enough I dont do those things. Resetting trash isnt really the a bug so you arent exploiting a bug, but I also dont do those things. But stealthing past mobs? Not an exploit at all.

If you are correct that 90% of the player base engaged in this, which I highly doubt is accurate, then that would be all the more reason why they should at least do something even if its just a slap on the wrist to the worst offenders because if 90% of the player base thinks the ToS is nothing more than toilet paper to wipe their asses with then that says something about the people playing this game. And the next exploit might be one that does actual damage to the game and the game economy and 90% of the player base apparently thinks that is A-OK

That has been an issue long before this fix that would affect people.

I had plenty of opportunities to do the exploit and I refused because it is a violation of the ToS to engage in exploits. Full Stop. Doesnt matter how big or small. And it is not inconsistent to say that stealthing around mobs is different that pulling a boss to an area where he should reset but because of a bug he wasnt resetting and people were negating one of the big mechanics of the fight. Those are not on the same level at all. And for the record, I have no problems at all with Nefra dropping Rakata gear so your claim that people complaining about this dont want people getting Rakata gear off these bosses is a lie. I do Nefra every week in fact. The difference is that players arent getting the gear off Nefra through an exploit. But at the end of the day, using a characters ability to stealth past mobs is not an exploit because the game allows you to do so therefore it is intended. Now we can argue about the whether or not doing things like reset evasions to get past trash counts or not. At the end of the day since you arent getting gear by doing it, and the only benefit is saving a little time, meh not up to the same standard as exploits that let you completely ignore mechanics and kill bosses you cant kill. Yes some of these groups killed SnV NiM prior to 7.0. But that wasnt the statement and the person who said that knows it btw. The issue is post-7.0 they were using exploiting a bug to kill a boss that they lacked the ability to kill to get gear faster. It doesnt matter that some of them had previously done it legitimately prior to 7.0. It also doesnt matter how long the exploit has been around either btw. The ToS doesnt say dont do exploits unless theyve been around for X amount of time and then its all good. They have specifically addressed that point before that it doesnt matter how long its been around, dont do it. No one may have benefited economically, as I did not see sells going around. But no it wasnt just people selling the Cora lockout and holding it open that got hit. It was also people that did it excessively. I would also note that people who did the Nefra exploit back in the day excessively received punishment too. And the fact that everyone here is acting as if exploits are no big deal is EXACTLY why they should do something, even if its just a slap on the wrist warning that the next time you are caught there will be stronger punishments. Because people somehow feel entitled now that they can do whatever they want, rules and ToS and everyone else be damned.

Thats what these people are trying to defend. Its quite obvious to ANYONE who looked at what they were doing that it wasnt intended to work. The boss was supposed to reset if you pulled him into those areas but he didnt, hence the bug and hence the exploit when they continued the fight and killed it anyways despite knowing thats not how the fight is supposed to work.

Except the one that I can remember where THAT happened, tbey DID ban people who took advantage of those exploits. Sorry. As for skipping trash, that isnt using a BUG to bypass mechanics so its not the same at all (first boss in EC, second in EV) If you are talking about the Cliff thing in EC where they climb on top of the shield, that is a bug that takes you out of the map from what I recall so yea that is kind of an exploit but I dont do that. Skipping trash is not an exploit because you arent exploiting a bug to get past the trash. Sorry.

Put the bug back in and let us keep exploiting it! We are entitled because X reason. You realize people made very similiar arguments for why they shouldnt punish over Cora (there was a lot of disgruntlement then too andthings were broken and people felt "entitled" to that as a compensation). That is exactly why I am glad they fixed it and why they need to take action against people who openly admit they did it to get gear they otherwise werent entitled to yet. Not my fault people chose to ignore the ToS they agreed to follow but actions should have consequences or you will have people like this acting as if they are entitled to somehow allow it to continue or to engage in even more exploitative behavior in the future that will do worse damage.

And thats exactly WHY they should take some sort of action to show players that yes in fact the rules still matter and yes you still are expected to follow the ToS otherwise people will continue to act as if they can do whatever they want rules be damned

Im glad in your personal experience that you havent seen it but I have seen it. I was in an EV HM group where a Sorc made fun of one of the other members of the group for half ot the operation because he was 2k less dps than the rest of the group. I mean everyone was almost identical and no one was doing subpar but this person still went out of their way to try to make someone miserable. Why? Because he could and because Bioware gave him access to the information he needed to do it. So dont tell me it doesnt happen because it does.

Much like anything its all there for scenery. You can explore alot of the different operations, especially the older ones and see stuff like that that really has no purpose other than just to be part of the scenery.

Its not an "oversight". Sorryu but try to justify it to yourelf all you want it doesnt change things. There are legitimate mechanics to the fight and the boss is supposed to reset when the party leaves the sandstorm. The fact that people went around and found places they could leave the sandstorm and because of a bug he wouldnt reset doesnt change the fact that it was not intended to operate that way, and doesnt change the fact that it was most definitely a bug in the way the fight was meant to be done and EVERYONE who has ever done that fight knows that and those who did the exploit knows what they did. The fact that the devs fixed it AS A BUG shows that it was a bug.. People are making clever little excuses now because they got caught and they are worried about what will happen. But you know what? You shouldnt exploit, no mattter what clever funny little excuses you come up with and you dont have to worry. But exploits shouldnt go unpunished, especially when they get propulgated and spread as much as this one was ast the end because that only encourages people to engage in that behavior and the next time it might not be a Dash bug thats not so bad. Next time it might be a game economy destroying bug that gets exploited. You dont get to have your cake and eat it too. Everyone who participated should have known there were consequences for what they were doing. They just dont want to face the music now that the ride is over and the payment is due.

By forcing it on people who dont? I mean its great for those who want it but if I dont want everyone being able to see my numbers I shouldnt have to share it

Which is all well and good unless what you are doing is exploiting a BUG to make the fight easier and clearing it when you otherwise could not. Using an exploit to beat content is not a "tactic" its a violation of the ToS and something people should actually look at since you agreed to abide by said terms.

That still doesnt really answer the question though does it? Most people and groups are cool and not trolls/***** but there are elitists out there who will make fun of people who arent doing what those elitists expect people to be doing so personally I'm not a huge fan of the change. I think it should be something that you should have the ability to opt into or out of.

Except that is not the case and everyone who has ever done the OP knows exactly how it is intended to be done and knows that if you pulled him to the cliff or the "cave" to try to escape the sandstorm it wasnt intended that he was supposed to be able to be fought there. People claiming otherwise now are just making excuses for why they thought it was a legitimate strategy. The fight has been around for how many years and that is never been the method for how to kill it and suddenly you think in 7,0 its how the developers want people to start doing it? Really? Come on dont be ridiculous.

Its not a reasonable strategy to purposefully try to ignore game mechanics or get the boss to behave in a manner that hes not supposed to. Sorry you can try to justify your behaviors all you want but it doesnt change the fact that the ability to fight him in the cave and avoid the sandstorm was a BUG and people who did it knew that and did it anyways, exploiting said bug and now are just trying to be all cute and clever and acting like they were just being smart or clever. And this isnt about elitism, or any of that BS. Its about the fact that people used an exploit, knowingly, and that if actions arent taken at least in some regard then the next time an exploit comes around people will engage in that as well rightfully thinking that its ok because bioware does not care. Again this isnt like Cora, and more like the Nefra explot from back in the day but both resulted in punishments just one received way more punishments and way more attention.

And there is a HUGE difference between what happened in 4.0 when people were clearing content because they were overgeared and overleveled, and purposefully using a bug (hate to break it to you but the not taking damage from standstorm, or the boss not resetting when you werent taking damage from the sandstorm WAS a bug and therefore doing it was exploiting said bug) ro defeat a boss you otherwise cannot defeat to get gear you otherwise would not earn.

They didnt remove gear from Cora that I remember because of how difficult that would be but there were lots and lots of people that receive 24-48 hour or longer bans. Just because you personally didnt see it or dont remember doesnt mean it didnt happen. I know plenty of people who received those bans and they werent just the people who were "propulgating" or holding the instance open week to week.

That is not true at all. People who did is excessively were banned for a period of time, and those who propagated it as mentioned received worse punishment but those who only used it once or twice were not really affected. But to say they didnt go after more than just those who propagated it is incorrect. And to say this isnt an "exploit" is to ignore the fact that it involved geting around game mechanics to kill the boss. It wasnt on the same level as other exploits, but it was still an exploit. And people who were actively engaging in it repeatedly and across multiple characters every week, knowing full well that they were engaging in "cheesing" shouldn't get off with nothing because that sends the wrong message that in the future Bioware will do nothing to people who engage in this behavior. At the end of the day, people knew what they were doing and they made a decision that they were mad or upset or whatever and felt entitled to do this to get gear faster. That is on them. But actions should have consequences otherwise people will continue to break rules, and next time it might be even worse. As for "this wasnt an exploit" thats BS and everyone knows it. The Boss fight has mechanics, and the fact that if the tanks didnt do it just right the fight would reset or the exploit wouldnt work correctly only proves that. The boss was never supposed to be able to be dps'ed in such a way that people could stand outside of and/or not receive damage from the sandstorm.You were never supposed to be able to completely ignore the shield generators/adds/etc. Those who did it know this and should just man up and take ownership for what they did.

Hello, I am writing this because I have heard there exists a bug currently in a certain operation called Scum and Villainy on one of the bosses that allow for it to be possible to bypass mechanics of the fight as the boss does not behave appropriately (does not reset as intended). I will not go into the specifics of which boss, but I am sure most here know which one it is as it is now being openly advertised at least on my server for groups to go and do this particular boss using this particular bug to defeat it and get easy loot. We have had issues with other exploits in the past being used to circumvent the gearing process, and there were bans for the most egregious version I can remember (Ravagers HM exploit) but a bug is a bug and an exploit is an exploit regardless of how much effort it still requires on the part of the players to accomplish. If you are not able to defeat a boss doing the intended mechanics and have to resort to a bug in order to get gear you wouldnt otherwise earn (because you wouldnt be able to kill the boss if you didnt do the bug otherwise why do it?) then it seems to me this would be just circumventing things. Now I have been told by friends I play with that it doesnt matter, no one cares, and there will be no punishments for this. That the devs dont care, thats why it hasnt even been fixed yet. Some of the same arguments I heard for why it was ok to do the Ravagers exploit mind you. But the only opinion at the end of the day that matters to me is what the developers say. So I am posting here without providing any details on which boss it is, other than to list the operation that it is in, or what has to be done to exploit the bug. I am not looking for other players to attack me for bringing this up or to mock me or act like Im stupid for bringing this up. I only want to bring it to the developers attention so that they can let players know if that statement that it isnt an issue and that it is fine to do it is correct or not. Thank you very much for your time.

The complaining isnt over the stronghold, its over the fact that Bioware failed yet again to both accurately communicate with the community and to provide accurate patch notes. I mean come on how hard would it have been to say "this will be the cost of the new stronghold, and this currency you get will cap at 50 per week." And there was nothing in any of the patch notes that mentioned the new currency, let alone the weekly cap. That is what has ME upset, is that Keith (who gets praise for the communication improvements, even after continually dropping the ball on communication) cant bother to communicate accurately about what is going to happen, and even now is ignoring this topic when he could easily come in and explain why we werent told about the cap and further why its needed. When you add it on top of a lot of the other problems with 5.4, its just ridiculous. But I am sure they will wait a week, then proclaim how much everyone loves the new fp, loves the new stronghold, and ignore all the issues both with bugs and with the way the new "content" was received.

The reuseable stims always had a biochem requirement in order to use them, so this is no different. What I am amazed at is yet again reverting a change that was specifically made for a reason: Fallen Empire Crafting Changes They changed both Cybertech and Biochem to balance them with other crafting skills, as no other crafting skill provides such a huge benefit to having said skill, and as a way to encourage a market. Perhaps the people behind those changes no longer work for bioware anymore and so no one remembers why the change was made, but when it comes to stuff like this if you are going to change things one way or the other, you really should communicate why such changes are being made. This will, as already mentioned, mean that biochem will become the preferred crafting skill and will tank the market on stims and adrenals currently established. I'd also like to hear why, if reuseables had to come back, there wasnt some sort of an attempt to balance it so that more crafting skills had something so that it would at least be balanced or remove the requirement for having biochem entirely and make them legacy bound like other items like the nightmare crystal. I don't think this particular item was well thought out and considered, but I would love to hear some feedback from the devs to prove me wrong.

Also why was there nothing in the patch notes about the new currency, or the weekly cap on said currency? was that so you could keep people from complaining about it for as long as possible?

Ya know I would have been less pissed about this had bioware had the courage to tell everyone ahead of time when they released the cost for this stronghold that it wouldnt be purchasable for a week because of a cap on currency, but no they once again fail at accurately and honestly communicating with their player base and led us all to believe that all we had to do was run their idiotic new content x amount of times per mode. Gating content like this is ridiculous but if you are going to do it at least have the courage to communicate a) that you are doing it and b) explain WHY you decide to gate the content. What honest gameplay reason is there to gate the content, except to limit peoples ability to get the SH as quickly as possible? It serves no purpose whatsoever, so please Keith if you are indeed honest about wanting to improve communication explain WHY you did this, WHY you didnt tell anyone, and WHY youve led all of us to believe that all we had to do was run the flashpoint X amount of times instead of saying X amount of times over at least a 2 week period because of a weekly cap on the currency?

Right now our current raid team runs on Thursday and Sundays 6pm Server time to 830pm server time. Any other groups ran by myself during the week would start after 6pm server time.