GrandLordMenace Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Let it be known that Eric Musco slew SWTOR. He is the highest tier prog raider the game has ever seen, he's slain every prog guild ever. Edited December 7, 2015 by GrandLordMenace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trobon Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Even casuals are going to get bored of doing HM raids. Fix the Nightmare Mode Loot or say goodbye to your player base, simple as that. This is not up for debate, there can be no disagreement. You -will- lose the majority of your player base, "casuals" included, if you do not make 224 a guaranteed drop. As much as I agree that this is a ridiculous choice on their part, I am going to call BS on this. Most players don't even touch OPs much less HM OPs and much much less NiMs. They should make NiMs drop the best gear because it is the right way for progression to work, but if you think the majority of the player base will care about this in the least then you are deluding yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTurin Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I think a larger issue that BW is missing out on is that while yes, the hardcore raiding community (those regularly doing NiM ops) is relatively small, and probably not spending a huge amount of money on the game aside from their subs, it is probably the group that spends the most time on the game, and more importantly, provides the best "people advertising" for the game. People like us are going to talk to our RL friends about the game and how much fun it is, and why they should play it too. We're also the people who show up to Cantina events, who cheer when BW makes it SWTOR presentation at EA events, and many other things that make it seem like people are excited about the game. Without those hardcore raiders, you'll be stuck with people who yes, they may spend money short term, but probably won't stick around long term, especially once they realize that an hour of story a month is not worth $15, and more importantly, won't do people advertising for the game. I'll stick around for a bit still, as only one of the groups I raid with is at the NiM level so gear progression still means something to me, but this is getting a little ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I know many hard core raiders who spend a lot of money to this game. Or spent. Past tense for many of them after today. Investing a lot of time for raiding and characters at some point leads to caring about how those toons look, what mounts they have and so on. I would not say they do not spend money on cartel market, on that they are on the plus side I am sure. Other than staying subbed for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZapBlast Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 While I don't mind the 224's droping in the HM of the week, having them only have a chance to drop in NiM is a very poor idea. Players should be rewarded for being able to clear that level of content not be forced to hope that the loot drops. Save the random drops for Cartel Packs because lately that seems to be all you guys care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Without head and chest armorings, you are short like 80 HP and 8 main stat (can get mods/enhancements from other pieces). MH/OH only drops from last boss (mods and enhancements from other pieces). Everything else drops within the first 2 bosses except earpieces, which would require the 3rd boss of DF as the only source (Rav, EV, and KP have no NiM modes). If you want a head armoring, 3rd boss of TFB or 3rd boss of DP. Chest is a final boss only or 6th in SnV. I agree, this is still harder than the targeted hard modes especially with EV/KP involved, but I don't believe those were handled the right way either. 5 sources of 224 gear a week would be a bit much as well. I still like the idea of drop chances in NiM and targeted HM, with guaranteed drops in a targeted NiM. Either way, your supposition that one could gear up fully killing the first and second bosses only in all the operations is incorrect. You need full clears to get all the gear, especially in the slots that are most critical to your performance, the pieces I highlighted. There's a reason why those were always gated at the end of an operation while the first bosses generally dropped the pieces that had the lowest impact on your performance. Because slowing down the gearing rate can easily be accomplished by gating the most desirable pieces behind the hardest part to clear, the whole operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikesShayGrass Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Even I don't PvE and this sounds horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanglay Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 To quote what I said in another thread I laughed when i read Eric's post, then I realized he was serious. I don't know how true this is for other nim raiders but I mostly play at this point because I enjoy raiding with my friends; more than I enjoy our "new content." This news will likely be the final nail in the coffin for what little we had left of the progression raiding scene. Hopefully my group decides on a game that we can all play together if we all decide to quit after this amazing new development. Good luck if you still think the devs care about us after this :cool:// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellRichter Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 To quote what I said in another thread What this guy said completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaingSkiratapwns Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 This doesn't make a lot of sense. Players should be awarded with top tier gear for completing nightmare content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excypher Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 What was stated in the op and this quote from George Smith's post about Operations and Flashpoints: "With Knights of the Fallen Empire there will not be any new Operations. We felt it was important to first address some of the issues with our Elder Game before moving on to new content. These changes will allow us to be more flexible with how we release new content, as the content no longer needs to be tied to a new gear tier or level cap increase." Here Leads me to believe that when they do release a new operation, It will probably just get added to the current rotation. Meaning we could also be forced to do old content when the new ops is not priority week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberpsykick Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I won't lie, as someone who mostly PvP's now...this is kind of messed up. Casual game just got more casual? I won't lie, as someone that mostly pvp's me and 95% of my guild quit because of no new WZ maps. Just saw this post on reddit, and wanted to say this is the end for most in my guild, and we stuck with it longer than most. *sigh* the pvp was so fun but no content for WZ minus some gear refreshes is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopr Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Eric Musco = Jar Jar Binks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) This is an absolute joke and just proves that you don't care about hardcore anything. I pretty much only PvP now but I raided in the months after vanilla launch. Sad to see that raiders are getting almost as shafted as the pvpers. It's literally like you want to drive off all the skilled and dedicated pvers by removing the incentive to run the only pve content that's remotely challenging. You're so out of touch it's ridiculous. Edited December 7, 2015 by Kakisback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabigool Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Eric, there seems to be no other purpose for implementing this change (and it's not a miscommunication, it's a change from the last communication put out by George in July) than to further dilute interest in challenging endgame content. Why can't you get George to do a Q&A or be part of the next livestream and simply put a lot of the questions to rest? Right now it seems as if there is a fair degree of negativity but I wager it's largely due to having to interpret your actions vs. getting concrete information. If swtor is truly killing endgame content because you don't see the value in it, you ought to feel confident enough to come out and say so. If the game would truly be better off without those of us who primarily enjoy endgame content at harder difficulties, tell us as much. Stop doing things that leave us no other logical conclusion but still a crack of hope that this game might be worth continuing to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percilator Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Are you out of your *********** minds? Do most Bioware employees travel to work on the same short bus that took them to school? Whoever thought this up should be fired (because apparently shooting them is going to far), along with everyone who heard the idea and didn't immediately slap the idiot in the face for coming up with it. Some special kind of stupid at work here. I just can't... there aren't enough words to describe how ridiculous this is... At this point I want to take any money I planned to spend on this game, and donate it to a worthy cause. Something along the lines of mental health and/or special education. I feel bad for the world when I see this level of stupidity. Edited December 7, 2015 by Percilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikofunkster Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Come on now suddenly everybody is nim raider....jo jo dont make me laugh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Whoever thought this up should be shot, along with everyone who heard the idea and didn't immediately slap the idiot in the face for coming up with it. Reiteration: Um... you do realize this is a video game were talking about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Whoever thought this up should be shot, along with everyone who heard the idea and didn't immediately slap the idiot in the face for coming up with it. Don't agree with someone being shot, but I do agree all the DEV's including the Design Lead should be lined up and slapped with the Austin phone book upside the head to make a point. "GOD bless your little hearts BW Team".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoAnt Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Right now it seems as if there is a fair degree of negativity but I wager it's largely due to having to interpret your actions vs. getting concrete information. If swtor is truly killing endgame content because you don't see the value in it, you ought to feel confident enough to come out and say so. Obviously they will never say "we want to kill endgame content" or "we don't want you around" since it makes no sense to do it whatsoever from the RP standpoint. It's just about managing expectations and reactions in little bits and huge delays so the players that are (were) focused on that aspect of the game don't leave all at a sudden. We are part of the paying customers afterall and from their point of view, the longer we stick around, the better. Now, having said that, it's pretty clear and they don't even have to say it anymore after such a long chain of decisions, they are not investing anything on a community of players that was highly invested in the game and supported it for long in so many ways. It's another type of player/customer that they are highly invested in pleasing and keeping entertained. We are out of their picture but the longer we stick around paying some, the better, it's the bottom line. Edited December 7, 2015 by MarcoAnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percilator Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Reiteration: Um... you do realize this is a video game were talking about right? Ok, possibly a very slight overreaction... fired then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Are you out of your *********** minds? Do most Bioware employees travel to work on the same short bus that took them to school? Whoever thought this up should be shot, along with everyone who heard the idea and didn't immediately slap the idiot in the face for coming up with it. Some special kind of stupid at work here. I just can't... there aren't enough words to describe how ridiculous this is... At this point I want to take any money I planned to spend on this game, and donate it to a worthy cause. Something along the lines of mental health and/or special education. I feel bad for the world when I see this level of stupidity. Then you must feel horrible for yourself. I mean really, suggesting people be shot over a video game decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasputein Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 well guys after this, a few other things and the patch notes that just released (huge DPS nerf) these where the nails in the coffin for me, sub canceled, 17days left on sub, will most likely finish out a toon or 2 because id hate to leave then unfinished, but I do not like the way this game is going so im not going to give them anymore money. Love star wars but hate EA/Bio....have fun all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eartharioch Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Probably way too late in the thread to post this and hope anybody notices, but: 1) NiM shouldn't have loot with stats in it, since [presumably] after completing it, since it isn't actually progression, it is the end of progression. 2) NiM should have cool "fluff" items that can't be obtained anywhere else. As I pointed out months ago (when the original plan to rescale old NiMs was announced), the problem is that BW didn't add any new fluff to the NiMs that people beating them at 5-10 levels over intended couldn't already get. If you can beat NiM with 224 gear obtained from HM, you don't need more 224 gear to drop from NiM. You need something that not everybody with 224 gear can get, not the same stuff that people with 198 (or lower) gear could get a few months ago. Edited December 7, 2015 by eartharioch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Deathpool- Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Come on now suddenly everybody is nim raider....jo jo dont make me laugh... This right here sums up my feelings about this entire thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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