NiM Loot Issue / Update

[psikofunkster]

People like you are the reason this community is in outrage today.

 

And people like you is the reason why the game hasn't closed yet.....keep paying and enjoy like i do...

 

BTW snipers nerf tomorrow..... i cant wait!!! geezzzzz:(

Edited December 7, 2015 by psikofunkster

[RussellRichter]

Deleted Edited June 6, 2019 by RussellRichter

[Sindariel]

Hard modes are challenging enough.

 

Lol, just lol.

You must be a serious terrible player if you think HM is challenging.

[K_osss]

So I don't raid, much; mostly pvp. But it doesn't make much sense for the hardest content in the game to reward less than easier content. I don't support this philosophy. I'd rethink it, Bioware.

 

It doesn't have to reward a new tier of gear (although i think it should be like 1-2% better at minimum) it needs to at least give the best gear and the titles and mounts are another good incentive. And this is coming from someone who's never done a NiM anything.

 

I do support progression raiders and their playstyle even if i don't do it myself. Its fun to see and I think they make the whole game better by providing guides etc...

[Kaayna]

Lol, just lol.

You must be a serious terrible player if you think HM is challenging.

 

Unfortunately, people think soloing without god tier companions is also challenging.

[psikofunkster]

Lol, just lol.

You must be a serious terrible player if you think HM is challenging.

 

Sure, sure and you must be the goddess of raiding parsing 20k on opening.......May the force be with you..blah blah blah

Edited December 7, 2015 by psikofunkster

[Starlite_Chobo]

Hi,

 

I've been playing for 3 years and have only posted on these forums maybe 4 times, but this is important enough I'm throwing in my two cents with everyone else.

 

I don't understand the decision to have a highlighted HM drop better loot than (much harder) NiM content, and without an explanation, it appears to me to be a dumb decision that incentivizes groups to run boring content.

 

Personally, I think the hardest content should drop better loot than easier content. But at the very least it should be the same. The problem with the current system (or system proposed for February?) is that guilds like mine are better off running the highlighted HM content, which is pretty easy for us if it is anything but Ravagers/ToS, and we're going to get burned out. (We raid for fun, not for loot, but at some point it's less fun if you don't get something tangible as a reward for effort put in.) If NiM dropped the same loot as the highlighted HM, then NiM would not be the most efficient way of obtaining gear, but at least we could run a bit of NiM and feel like we're at least not going backward.

 

My guild is about 15 casual people (dads, moms, people with jobs) who raid once a week and are not particularly great at this game, although over half have played since launch. NiM is fun for us, though we have never cleared all of it at tier. We've done the older hardmodes way too many times, and they're too easy and too familiar to be interesting. Incentivizing us to run that stuff over and over again instead of NiM is disappointing to me.

 

Thanks for reading. (Ok, who am I kidding? Nobody reads this.)

[revcrisis]

LOL at all these PVE kids not being able to comprehend this change. I am a PVP player and I completely understand this change, and from a financial perspective it makes 100% sense. PVP has been affected by this indifference for years (removal of ranked 8v8 warzones). We're way ahead of you PVErs in understanding Bioware's thought process.

 

 

1. The actual skilled nightmare players that are left in this game are so small. Nothing they do will bring a majority of the ones who left back to this game
   
2. Bioware does not make money from these said Nightmare players. How much total percentage of the entire SWTOR population can clear a NiM boss? Less than 1%. How many "progression raiders" are still around when there's been NO NEW NIGHTMARE MODES since 2.x? Prob less than 0.1% of total population.
   
3. Bioware is prioritizing story. Story = Influx of Casuals.
   
4. Casuals don't want to do Nightmare mode ROFL. If I'm a casual, I keyboard turn and click, and run around in 98 level greens. Nightmare mode LOL, please, don't make me laugh. Nightmare mode for Casuals LOL!
   
5. BUT WAIT. Casuals are self-entitled and want to feel powerful in the best gear the game can offer. Casuals want the best gear!!! What to do!?
   
6. Casuals can, however, do Hard Mode. How to keep casuals happy so the casuals keep the revenue stream going? Drop the best gear in highlighted HM. Durrrrr.
   

 

Economics 101 boys. EA and Bioware know EXACTLY what they're doing. The Ranked Arena scene faces the same challenges. Why? Because top tier Ranked Arena players are once again, 1% of the total population. To us top-tier PVP players, this is nothing new. It's funny that the top-tier PVE spectrum is now being affected.

Edited December 7, 2015 by revcrisis

[psikofunkster]

Why is this so hard to comprehend for you PVE Nightmare kids? Coming from a PVP player I completely understand this and it makes 100% sense.

 

1. 1) The actual skilled nightmare players that are left in this game are so small. Nothing will bring a majority of the ones who left back
   
2. 2) Bioware does not make money from these said Nightmare players. How much total percentage of the entire SWTOR population can clear a NiM boss? Less than 1%.
   
3. 3) Bioware is prioritizing story. Story = Influx of Casuals.
   
4. 4) Casuals don't want to do Nightmare mode ROFL. But they want to feel powerful in the best gear the game can offer
   
5. 5) Casuals can, however, do Hard Mode. How to keep casuals happy so the casuals keep the revenue stream going? Drop the best gear in highlighted HM.
   

 

Economics 101 boys. EA and Bioware know EXACTLY what they're doing. The Ranked Arena scene faces the same challenges. Why? Because top tier Ranked Arena players are once again, 1% of the total population.

 

Pretty much this ^

 

But wait they know exactly what they're doing JUST to BARELY SURVIVE on the market....

Edited December 7, 2015 by psikofunkster

[ekwalizer]

Face it guys you can't just leave the game, we all have certain addiction to it. Me I just ressubed for 60 more days this week, why? well a new SW movie coming also holidays are almost here....Will i be grinding the same old content? yes, but at least i will be playing my favorite game...

 

I did, as have several others. I'm not going to link the "I quit" thread, but unless it has been deleted it still exists. For me, this is the final straw. I'll get my Star Wars fix on the Bloodfin emulator - for free. I'll still play here once a week by using raid passes, purchased via the GTN, to support my raid group.

[Wopr]

My feeling is actions speak out more then words do. I cancel out my sub. Good luck BW

[psikofunkster]

I did, as have several others. I'm not going to link the "I quit" thread, but unless it has been deleted it still exists. For me, this is the final straw. I'll get my Star Wars fix on the Bloodfin emulator - for free. I'll still play here once a week by using raid passes, purchased via the GTN, to support my raid group.

 

Excuse me but if you can post here you are still a sub...

[KeyboardNinja]

Sure, sure and you are the goddess of raiding parsing 10k on opening.......god bless you.

 

Actually 10k in the opener is pretty weak for most DPS classes…

 

HM is easy. Realistically, Master-Blaster and Revan are the only two hard "hard mode" bosses, and Revan is substantially easier than he once was. The highlighted OP system forces high tier raid groups to do content that is boring to them and largely a waste of time. It serves to do nothing other than remove an hour from a raid night; an hour that could have been more enjoyably spent on something challenging.

 

To be frank, I'm not much surprised at the content of this announcement, though I did hold out a sliver of hope that George's original wording was the intended design and not a typo. SWTOR's current endgame design is incredibly asinine. Ignoring the need for new content demonstrates this fact quite amply; the OP announcement is merely the icing on the cake.

[Makillda]

Excuse me but if you can post here you are still a sub...

 

It doesn't cut you off immediately. His time has to run out first.

[kopalame]

REALLY? You really need to reconsider difficulty vs. reward when it comes to operations. You scaled all operations to the same level for 4.0 but that doesn't mean they're anywhere near the same difficulty. Let's even forget 224 gear for a moment. HM Ravagers for example is way way harder than HM Eternity Vault, it makes no sense they should have the same rewards, gear or otherwise. It makes REALLY no sense that when the likes of EV or KP is highlighted, they have BETTER rewards than something that is way harder like HM ravagers, TOS or any nightmare. At the very least they should reward the same gear.

 

Veteran progression raiders got the shaft with 4.0, at least throw them a bone instead of giving them less rewards for doing the hardest content than you get for grinding the same hm operation multiple times a week.

 

At this point 4.0 gear progression is messed up. For now let nightmare (maybe except first boss or two in each op), aswell as hm revan, m&b, cora drop 224 gear. In 4.1 or 4.2 reset the gear progression with tiers more akind to this (just a rough idea):

 

220: SM EV, SM KP

224: HM EV, HM KP, All other SM's

228: HM EC, HM TFB, HM S&V, HM DF, HM DP, first boss of each nightmare op, first 3 in HM Rav and HM TOS

232: Highlighted HM, but 228 if it's EV or KP

236: Last 2 in HM Rav and HM TOS, all nightmare except first boss

[psikofunkster]

It doesn't cut you off immediately. His time has to run out first.

 

I don't know if he cancelled or not, what it counts is right now, he is still a sub at this point.

Edited December 7, 2015 by psikofunkster

[ekwalizer]

LOL at all these PVE kids not being able to comprehend this change. I am a PVP player I completely understand this change and it makes 100% sense to me.

 

1. The actual skilled nightmare players that are left in this game are so small. Nothing will bring a majority of the ones who left back
   
2. Bioware does not make money from these said Nightmare players. How much total percentage of the entire SWTOR population can clear a NiM boss? Less than 1%.
   
3. Bioware is prioritizing story. Story = Influx of Casuals.
   
4. Casuals don't want to do Nightmare mode ROFL. But they want to feel powerful in the best gear the game can offer
   
5. Casuals can, however, do Hard Mode. How to keep casuals happy so the casuals keep the revenue stream going? Drop the best gear in highlighted HM.
   

 

Economics 101 boys. EA and Bioware know EXACTLY what they're doing. The Ranked Arena scene faces the same challenges. Why? Because top tier Ranked Arena players are once again, 1% of the total population.

 

Those are all fair points, but I do feel compelled to point out that *if* casuals are this massive boon to subscriptions, and "story" is the economic driving engine of this game .... there would be no need for an 8-Month subscription gimmick (HK-55) as an attempt to retain subscribers.

[FerkWork]

The issue is forcing people to run easier content that can be done in 216 to get gear that is overkill for NiM. This kills any logical progression. People want choices to run what they want. I don't care if *******s baddies on fleet are BiS but rather that we have to run some **** tier easy mode content (all the HMs are easy outside of Revan and that fight is way easier than what it was) instead of doing fun NIM content because we like challenging content. Give us the choice that is logical. Your making grind for grind sakes.

 

All this will do is cause for all involved (casual guilds and pugs included):

• Burnout

• Anger

• Ninja looting

• Greed

• Grind

 

Because you have to drag it out for that incredible unprecedented rewards. Hell everyone on fleet with credits has Wings already from all the sales runs.

 

G G

[MillionsKNives]

Think of it like you would a new raid. Maybe you can only clear the first boss or the first two bosses, but it starts gearing up your raid. If there are 6-12 first or second bosses you can clear, that's a lot of gear to be dropping every week. I think the design philosophy overall is that you are doing NiM for the challenge after you have the gear, not to get gear. If it drops fine, if not, it won't really matter to me. But having every raid drop 224 would be overkill. Just give it a target operation as well to encourage doing a different one each week.

 

You ever wonder why the first few bosses always drop the crappiest pieces? So that if players can only clear those first and second bosses then they get a ton of the crappiest pieces in the tier. Oh man, how horrible would it be if all of the ops groups were able to get 16 pairs of the same gloves over and over by doing only the first and second bosses.

[darthjanus]

I really enjoy playing this game and probably spend far too much time playing it; however, this has to be the worst decision you have made yet regarding this game BioWare! (And let's be honest my friends at BioWare, your track record with the development of this game has been far from stellar).

 

A large portion of the raiding community was already disheartened when it learned of no new Operations with the launch of 4.0. Many decided to quit playing the game to look for more challenging raiding content easily found in many of this game's MMO competitors. Given this decision regarding Nightmare Operations, I cannot see why anyone who enjoys challenging raid content would continue to play this game.

 

Perhaps BioWare can give us some objective data regarding the current hightlighted HM completion rates, but until then my subjective perspective, as well as others that I play with, is that the current HMs are far too easy to be considered challenging content. Only the Nightmare Operations provide any real challenge to veteran players. Why would any game developer actively discourage it's players from pursuing the most challenging game content? That is exactly what this decision regarding 224 level gear dropping in Nightmare Operations does: remove any reward from completing the most difficult operations.

 

Please BioWare listen to me and the many others posting in this thread: All Nightmare bosses should drop 224 level gear. Please don't continue to dissuade us from playing and paying for your game!

[RussellRichter]

Deleted Edited June 6, 2019 by RussellRichter

[ekwalizer]

I don't know if he cancelled or not, what it counts is right now, he is still a sub at this point.

 

Yes, but I have still spoken with my wallet. My sub runs out on the 28th and it will not be renewed (as it has been manually cancelled) until the staff comes back to their senses. I paid for the time. Forum use comes with that. Other than being snarky I fail to see your point.

Edited December 7, 2015 by ekwalizer

[RussellRichter]

Yes, but I have still spoken with my wallet. My sub runs out on the 28th and it will not be renewed (as it has been manually cancelled) until the staff comes back to their senses. I paid for the time. Forum use comes with that. Other than being snarky I fail to see your point.

 

Deleted

Edited June 6, 2019 by RussellRichter

[TUXs]

I know, right?

 

I think this marks only the second time that TUXs and I have been on the same side of an issue, ever.

I know...I'm use to this being so much easier...you're wrong, I'm right, we agree to disagree...but agreeing on this has me perplexed

[Kurin]

I've given this a little time to settle in. Some thoughts:

 

1) BioWare taking 6 weeks to respond to what the very, very best players in the game deem as a serious bug demonstrates the respect BioWare has for those players (almost none).

2) Not even noticing that the blog entry was incorrect is an even bigger slap-in-the-face.

3) Taking 2 more months to fix a percentage for dropping loot bug for 20 bosses in the game? Seriously BioWare. Seriously? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it will take 10 minutes, per boss, of dev time to make this change. You can't do that a little sooner than 2 months from now?

4) I agree with a basic philosophy that we cannot have 4 raids that all drop the best gear in the game. If a guild puts those 4 raids on farm, the "grind" to full best-in-slot for the raid group is simply too quick, so the percentage thing does make some sense.

5) Proposed alternative solution: Have a highlighted NiM of the week that offers 100% drops. The other 3 raids would have the percentage solution (it would also be nice if players knew the intended percentage).