Optimal Stats For All 24 Disciplines, KOTFE Edition

[thatguybil]

Patch notes are live, is it time to start speculating?

 

Back of the envelope math. Marksman loose about 6.5% of the DPS.

This might make power augments more appealing as supper crit is less .

[DarthVengeant]

At this point, I really think you're a troll. As was stated before : Earpice = Implants = Enhancements. It doesn't matter what implant or earpiece since you can swap them with enhancements in your build.If you want us to masticate all the work for you, you've come to the wrong place.

And 72 screenshots is a lot of screenshots if you ask me. Plus gearing all those alts would take its time and its load of credits.

 

Another person clearly not reading what I said....

 

Go back and read my last post. I clearly said text would suffice since screenshots aren't necessary and that it doesn't take piles of screen shots to post a persons gear. Only a few. I fail to see why it is so hard to post " You need these two implants and this earpiece to get the desired number if you have these mods, enhancements, and augments to go with it". Simple. Instead of people saying there are 1000 ways to get the number, JUST MAKE ONE as a TEMPLATE and make it EASIER for everyone. But, again, trying to make something simple seems to be too much to ask and all the feedback I receive from my personal frustration just puts words in my mouth that I never said anyway. It is easier to insult me and call me a "troll" from behind a keyboard than try something new and actually simplify gearing for people. So, I give up.

 

Tell you what, when (someday) I reach the near optimal stats on my main mirror classes I WILL POST the exact set up I had to obtain it to HELP OTHERS and make it easier for them since no one here seems to want to.

 

I love how every single time someone said says something different than what everyone else says it is automatically "trolling". Just proof that humans don't like differences and why our society is so screwed up now because of it.

Edited December 8, 2015 by DarthVengeant

[Joefjr]

Think its funny that they nerf Serenity but not a few specs above it that do more dps.

[Joefjr]

Another person clearly not reading what I said....

 

Go back and read my last post. I clearly said text would suffice since screenshots aren't necessary and that it doesn't take piles of screen shots to post a persons gear. Only a few. I fail to see why it is so hard to post " You need these two implants and this earpiece to get the desired number if you have these mods, enhancements, and augments to go with it". Simple. Instead of people saying there are 1000 ways to get the number, JUST MAKE ONE as a TEMPLATE and make it EASIER for everyone. But, again, trying to make something simple seems to be too much to ask and all the feedback I receive from my personal frustration just puts words in my mouth that I never said anyway. It is easier to insult me and call me a "troll" from behind a keyboard than try something new and actually simplify gearing for people. So, I give up.

 

Tell you what, when (someday) I reach the near optimal stats on my main mirror classes I WILL POST the exact set up I had to obtain it to HELP OTHERS and make it easier for them since no one here seems to want to.

 

I love how every single time someone said says something different than what everyone else says it is automatically "trolling". Just proof that humans don't like differences and why our society is so screwed up now because of it.

 

All this because you want to be told what to put where instead of knowing you need X amount of Y with Z stats and putting Stat Z in slot B instead of slot C, guess you have to be told where to put other things in bed as well, i feel sorry for them.

 

You seem like the kinda of person who would beg in general chat for over an hour on how to do this or that in game, instead of taking less than 1 min to google it.

 

Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of his life... You need to learn to fish

[Magnapaneti]

So what is expected dps loss for snipers and pts after the patch?

[LudhaninRolgge]

Another person clearly not reading what I said....

 

Go back and read my last post. I clearly said text would suffice since screenshots aren't necessary and that it doesn't take piles of screen shots to post a persons gear. Only a few. I fail to see why it is so hard to post " You need these two implants and this earpiece to get the desired number if you have these mods, enhancements, and augments to go with it". Simple. Instead of people saying there are 1000 ways to get the number, JUST MAKE ONE as a TEMPLATE and make it EASIER for everyone. But, again, trying to make something simple seems to be too much to ask and all the feedback I receive from my personal frustration just puts words in my mouth that I never said anyway. It is easier to insult me and call me a "troll" from behind a keyboard than try something new and actually simplify gearing for people. So, I give up.

 

Tell you what, when (someday) I reach the near optimal stats on my main mirror classes I WILL POST the exact set up I had to obtain it to HELP OTHERS and make it easier for them since no one here seems to want to.

 

I love how every single time someone said says something different than what everyone else says it is automatically "trolling". Just proof that humans don't like differences and why our society is so screwed up now because of it.

 

Except gearing is not difficult. And since you have the total stat budget, the number of enhancements (including implants and earpiece), it's even easier. You just have to make it as you like (ie : pleasing for your OCDs), but that's not enough, you even want someone to take your hand and make all of your gearing for you. You're very lazy if you can't even figure out what you need as implants or eapiece with all the stats Bant gives us. If you didn't came here to complain, and actually think a little bit about your gear, I'm pretty sure you'd have it figured out by now. But apparently, people telling you to think and stop being lazy are the problem for whatever reason. Do you also ask the people you run operations with to clear all the trash and the bosses for you while you go do something else so that you can have all the loot at the end ?

[JasonNH]

With a number of classes having their critical bonus damage reduced in 4.0.3, should we expect an adjustment in the optimal stat balancing between crit and alacrity now?

[Britharen]

Another person clearly not reading what I said....

 

Go back and read my last post. I clearly said text would suffice since screenshots aren't necessary and that it doesn't take piles of screen shots to post a persons gear. Only a few. I fail to see why it is so hard to post " You need these two implants and this earpiece to get the desired number if you have these mods, enhancements, and augments to go with it". Simple. Instead of people saying there are 1000 ways to get the number, JUST MAKE ONE as a TEMPLATE and make it EASIER for everyone. But, again, trying to make something simple seems to be too much to ask and all the feedback I receive from my personal frustration just puts words in my mouth that I never said anyway. It is easier to insult me and call me a "troll" from behind a keyboard than try something new and actually simplify gearing for people. So, I give up.

 

Tell you what, when (someday) I reach the near optimal stats on my main mirror classes I WILL POST the exact set up I had to obtain it to HELP OTHERS and make it easier for them since no one here seems to want to.

 

I love how every single time someone said says something different than what everyone else says it is automatically "trolling". Just proof that humans don't like differences and why our society is so screwed up now because of it.

 

I am just going to assume you are not a troll and that you are concerned that in your limited time available to play you will waste the tokens you have won on gear that isn't optimal and that you do not want to spend too much time gearing. Well, neither do many of us (I say many because some people like gearing,) but we do it anyway. I have a spreadsheet that keeps track of all my alts gear, but it still doesn't eliminate all the time it takes me to gear them up. I can't wait until all I have to do is upgrade the set-bonus armorings. The OP and other theory-crafters have eliminated the biggest time sink in gearing, which was finding the optimal set up. In addition, in previous iterations of the original post, it didn't include the enhancement/ear piece/implant levels. There was just a total that you had to reach. So now you want people to go that last little step and walk you to the token vendor (it is in the supplies section on the fleet) and tell you buy this buy that. No one is going to do that.

 

Now, I would not have written all this if I did not think I could add something that would help the entire community and maybe alleviate some of your fears in purchasing the wrong piece. Also, I almost feel like this is too close to buy this buy that, but this discussion has gone on too long and I want this forum to get back to helping Bant update/check his work on the recent class changes.

 

1. Don't use your ear/implant tokens. The comm-vendor pieces are good enough. Other than use tank for tanks and do not use accuracy on heals it doesn't really matter which one. More stats is better

2. Use your set bonus tokens. You don't really have a choice in the matter. The 216, 220, 224 tokens have the same tertiary stat in the enhancement.

3. See where your stats lie and then purchase the ear piece and implant tokens accordingly.

4. Gasp. You may not get all the way there so augment and maybe do more gearing by using another token piece just for the enhancement.

 

Another method is to look up what enhancements the tokens for your spec drops by looking through the vendor or using website resources like torcommunity than use the correct ear/implants tokens with that foreknowledge.

PS do not respond to this other than to add additional gearing help that the whole community can benefit from.

[Goblin_Lackey]

Update: 12/8/2015

• 4.0.3 Changes (See official patch notes for full list)
  
• Due to the 4.0.3 Ability cost changes for Assassins | Shadows, the ratio between Saber Strikes and Thrash / Double Strike / Voltaic Slash / Clairvoyant Strike has been adjusted for Deception | Infiltration and Hatred | Serenity.
  
• Corrosive Grenade | Shrap Bomb is now correctly classified as an AOE dot
  
• Fixed Cluster Bomb | Contingency Charge to benefit from the Auto-Crits granted by Laze Target | Smuggler’s Luck.
  
• Found unsolved Issue with Orbital Strike | XS Freighter Flyby doing double my predicted damage in game. Temporary fix added to match in game numbers
  
• stacks of Wrath | Presence of Mind now correctly grant the 25% value from the tooltip instead of the reduced 20% from 3.0 value.
  
• Redetermined a steady state rotation for Madness | Balance that uses all abilities except force leech | exactly on cooldown and uses as many clipped Force Lightnings | Telekinetic Throws as possible to replace Lightning Strikes | Disturbances (Thanks IkarusXY for bringing it to my attention and to Ceazare for confirming)
  
• Added the Force/Tech Resistance granted by Ravage | Blade Dance in addition to the defense bonuses
  
• Fixed Bug in my code for the Increased Health Tank option that accidentally included defense from on a DPS relic. (Thanks SchnellesWiesel)
  
• All Disciplines have been recalculated for 4.0.3
  

 

4.0.3 DPS changes (224 optimal gearing used)

Imperial || Republic : 4.0.2 DPS -> 4.0.3 DPS (DPS Change = % DPS Change)

Annihilation || Watchman : 6909 -> 6845 (-64 = -0.92%)

Carnage || Combat : 6700 -> 6666 (-34 = -0.50%)

Deception || Infiltration : 6808 -> 6475 (-333 = -4.89%)

Hatred || Serenity : 6587 -> 6493 (-94 = -1.43%)

Advanced Prototype || Tactics : 6785 -> 6378 (-407 = -6.00%)

Marksman || Sharpshooter : 6705 -> 6179 (-526 = -7.85%)

Engineering || Saboteur : 7250 -> 6712 (-538 = -7.42%)

Virulence || Dirty Fighting : 6602 -> 6582 (-20 = -0.31%)

Lethality || Ruffian : 6597 -> 6655 (-58 = -0.88%)

Edited December 8, 2015 by Goblin_Lackey

[JasonNH]

Thank you for staying right on top of the changes.

[FerkWork]

Carnage || Combat : 6700 -> 6666 (-34 = -0.50%)]

 

2Spoky4me

[InsodusVanus]

Marksman || Sharpshooter : 6705 -> 6179 (-526 = -7.85%)

Engineering || Saboteur : 7250 -> 6712 (-538 = -7.42%)

 

Hit snipers way too hard with the nerf bat if you ask me. Marksmen really should be a glass cannon, not lowest DPS by 5-6%

[g_mK]

2Spoky4me

 

Use my number then 6679

[Wrakor]

Update: 12/8/2015

Deception || Infiltration : 6808 -> 6475 (-333 = -4.89%)

Well, I was finally glad Assassins were able to be competitive. Not anymore

[Powerinfusion]

Another person clearly not reading what I said....

 

Go back and read my last post. I clearly said text would suffice since screenshots aren't necessary and that it doesn't take piles of screen shots to post a persons gear. Only a few. I fail to see why it is so hard to post " You need these two implants and this earpiece to get the desired number if you have these mods, enhancements, and augments to go with it". Simple. Instead of people saying there are 1000 ways to get the number, JUST MAKE ONE as a TEMPLATE and make it EASIER for everyone. But, again, trying to make something simple seems to be too much to ask and all the feedback I receive from my personal frustration just puts words in my mouth that I never said anyway. It is easier to insult me and call me a "troll" from behind a keyboard than try something new and actually simplify gearing for people. So, I give up.

 

Tell you what, when (someday) I reach the near optimal stats on my main mirror classes I WILL POST the exact set up I had to obtain it to HELP OTHERS and make it easier for them since no one here seems to want to.

 

I love how every single time someone said says something different than what everyone else says it is automatically "trolling". Just proof that humans don't like differences and why our society is so screwed up now because of it.

 

Wow - you're still crying. Would you like a tissue?

Edited December 9, 2015 by Powerinfusion

[Psyotic]

Just found an mistake in your Stats for the Lightning Sorcerer.

 

You actually use this 701 Accuracy (2xE, 5xA) at 224

 

I'm now at this point and its uselass to have 110,19% Accuracy.

 

For dumb reasons there 2 Enhancemants with Accuracy and you only want to use 1 to geht this:

 

679 Accuracy (1xE, 7xA)

 

and use the 22 Spare Point in Enhancement for crit or alacrity.

 

Which would you prefer?

[TACeMossie]

Just found an mistake in your Stats for the Lightning Sorcerer.

 

You actually use this 701 Accuracy (2xE, 5xA) at 224

 

I'm now at this point and its uselass to have 110,19% Accuracy.

 

For dumb reasons there 2 Enhancemants with Accuracy and you only want to use 1 to geht this:

 

679 Accuracy (1xE, 7xA)

 

and use the 22 Spare Point in Enhancement for crit or alacrity.

 

Which would you prefer?

 

The situation for that was found over the first 10-15 pages or so. Basically, due to the relevance of Interrupts in operations once again, having less than 100% accuracy can be extremely detrimental if your interrupt misses. As such, he modified 224 gear to run off the 2/5 combo for >110% accuracy, as that's the lowest accuracy you can have while still being at 110%+

[Powerinfusion]

The situation for that was found over the first 10-15 pages or so. Basically, due to the relevance of Interrupts in operations once again, having less than 100% accuracy can be extremely detrimental if your interrupt misses. As such, he modified 224 gear to run off the 2/5 combo for >110% accuracy, as that's the lowest accuracy you can have while still being at 110%+

 

And, you're talking about 22 points out of a budget of 2,784 for tertiary - for all intents and purposes, a drop of water in the ocean (<0.8%).

[revcrisis]

Hit snipers way too hard with the nerf bat if you ask me. Marksmen really should be a glass cannon, not lowest DPS by 5-6%

Ranged burst DPS should be at the bottom of the barrel. I'm glad Marksmanship is down there, where it belongs.

 

Remember Bioware's class balance philosophy, which makes complete sense to me: Melee Sustained > Melee Burst > Ranged Sustained > Ranged Burst.

 

It's no coincidence that all the burst specs are at the bottom of Bant's list. The bottom 7 consist of all the burst specs in the game.

 

Bottom 7:

12 - 6475 - -1.00% --- Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration

13 - 6474 - -1.01% --- Sorcerer - Lightning || Sage - Telekinetics

14 - 6463 - -1.18% --- Operative - Concealment || Scoundrel - Scrapper

15 - 6409 - -2.01% --- Juggernaut - Rage || Guardian - Focus

16 - 6378 - -2.48% --- Powertech - Advanced Prototype || Vanguard - Tactics

17 - 6359 - -2.77% --- Marauder - Fury || Sentinel - Concentration

18 - 6179 - -5.52% --- Sniper - Marksman || Gunslinger - Sharpshooter

 

This is class balance at it's finest. Burst specs at the bottom, sustained specs at the top. I do think Marksmanship could use a slight buff to get it to 3% below average. 5.52% below average is a little harsh, but it should definitely be dead last in rankings. 3%-3.25% below average seems fair.

 

Not happy about it? Respec to Engineering which is #3 overall. Kappa

Edited December 9, 2015 by revcrisis

[dipstik]

thanks for the update bant.

[KeyboardNinja]

This is class balance at it's finest. Burst specs at the bottom, sustained specs at the top. I do think Marksmanship could use a slight buff to get it to 3% below average. 5.52% below average is a little harsh, but it should definitely be dead last in rankings. 3%-3.25% below average seems fair.

 

Not happy about it? Respec to Engineering which is #3 overall. Kappa

 

In general, I agree with the principle of the thing. Marksmanship is ranged, extremely high burst (with the advent of super crit), has LITERALLY no target swapping penalties, and has good AoE and survivability. It should be the lowest parsing spec in the game. However, it doesn't take much effort looking over Bant's list to see where balance is screwy, even in this revised world.

 

Fury and Rage, for example, have far lower burst than most people believe. Carnage substantially out-bursts Fury and has much better survivability and strong AoE. Fury and Rage are both melee specs with significant >4 meter penalties and more setup than many other burst specs (such as Carnage and Deception). And yet Fury is one of the worst parsing specs in the game, and Rage isn't far behind. Logic?

 

Another example would be Arsenal, which is parsing higher than Lethality (a melee, sustained spec with the longest setup time in the game, no AoE and limited survivability), Pyro (a melee sustained spec with an unavoidable 3 second channel in rotation and the worst target swapping in the game), and even Virulence (a ranged sustain spec, more of a peer to IO than anything else).

 

How about the fact that Madness parses significantly behind IO, despite extreme immobility, worse target swapping, lower burst and no burst survivability? (remember that IO has a rotation which is 100% mobile outside of one cast once every 15 seconds; no gimmicks, I do mean 100%, and without loss of DPS) Or of course, the perenial whipping boy, Hatred. Why on earth would a sustained melee spec with poor AoE, no burst, significant setup penalties, and literally no survivability be parsing closer to the bottom of the heap than the top?

 

I agree with you on Bioware's stated balance goals, but they clearly aren't following those goals very closely if you judge by the latest set of changes. Only the Marksmanship and AP changes make any sense in the grand scheme of things.

[revcrisis]

In general, I agree with the principle of the thing. Marksmanship is ranged, extremely high burst (with the advent of super crit), has LITERALLY no target swapping penalties, and has good AoE and survivability. It should be the lowest parsing spec in the game. However, it doesn't take much effort looking over Bant's list to see where balance is screwy, even in this revised world.

 

Another example would be Arsenal, which is parsing higher than Lethality (a melee, sustained spec with the longest setup time in the game, no AoE and limited survivability), Pyro (a melee sustained spec with an unavoidable 3 second channel in rotation and the worst target swapping in the game), and even Virulence (a ranged sustain spec, more of a peer to IO than anything else).

 

How about the fact that Madness parses significantly behind IO, despite extreme immobility, worse target swapping, lower burst and no burst survivability? (remember that IO has a rotation which is 100% mobile outside of one cast once every 15 seconds; no gimmicks, I do mean 100%, and without loss of DPS) Or of course, the perenial whipping boy, Hatred. Why on earth would a sustained melee spec with poor AoE, no burst, significant setup penalties, and literally no survivability be parsing closer to the bottom of the heap than the top?

 

Good post, I agree on some things. I think Arsenal will be changed soon (4.0.4?) as it's the only spec still left in the game with 30% crit bonuses. It's also a (poor) Merc, so maybe Bioware kept this higher for PVP purposes. If they knock the Arsenal crit bonus to 15%, all of a sudden the spec is towards the bottom of this list, maybe above Marksman and Fury/Rage.

 

I think something to keep in mind is that the difference between Madness and IO are not that different. Madness is roughly 1% behind. In the grand scheme of things and in an Operations environment, this really doesn't matter. They've shrunk the percentages to acceptable amounts of each other. The bottom line is that every class is now viable for Operations, every spec can be played on certain bosses if you want to. You don't need to take 4 AP PTs into an operation or 4 Engineering Snipers or 4 Marksmanship Snipers for burst phases. Everything is close enough, with Anni and Marksman being the outliers. Perhaps Anni needs a slight nerf and Marksman needs a slight buff. But in general, if it's just 1-2%, who cares. The issue was certain classes were so far ahead in DPS and in survivability/mobility that other classes weren't being played in operations. Obviously AP with its god-mode mobility, burst, sustained, and survivability was the biggest offender here. I'm glad this was adjusted.

 

DPS are mostly balanced now. Now onto healer adjustments!

Edited December 9, 2015 by revcrisis

[KeyboardNinja]

I think something to keep in mind is that the difference between Madness and IO are not that different. Madness is roughly 1% behind. In the grand scheme of things and in an Operations environment, this really doesn't matter. They've shrunk the percentages to acceptable amounts of each other. The bottom line is that every class is now viable for Operations. You don't need to take 4 AP PTs into an operation or 4 Engineering Snipers or 4 Marksmanship Snipers for burst phases. Everything is close enough, with Anni and Marksman being the outliers. Perhaps Anni needs a slight nerf and Marksman needs a slight buff. But in general 1-2%, who cares. The issue was certain classes were so far ahead in DPS and in survivability/mobility that other classes weren't being played in operations.

 

While in theory I would agree that all classes look close enough to be within viable spitting distance of each other, in practice it seems there is a bit more of a spread. As an example, the group my sorc is in are doing NiM Dread Guard. I'm running Madness for the fight, just because of pushback (and also because the self-healing is actually valuable), while our Merc is running IO. I would consider myself to be a very good DPS (and boss and dummy parses support this conceit), and I've been playing Madness in various incarnations on-and-off for four years. I cannot keep up with our merc. I can make the minimum bar for the fight, barely, most of the time, but I can't do any more than that. IO also seems to have a higher "good fortune" ceiling than Madness does, since I've seen his parses fluctuate by almost 600 DPS between pulls, with his best ones being enormous higher than mine and his worst being barely lower.

 

Given that I can make the DPS check on the fight in Madness, I suppose technically it's alright, but I wouldn't say that it's a good situation all around.

 

I would also point back to Fury, which is still enormously behind any reasonable DPS bar, and also Hatred, which is far enough behind on DPS that its glaring survivability issues aren't even remotely ignorable. No one is running either of those two specs in any content.

 

DPS are mostly balanced now. Now onto healer adjustments!

 

I'm actually curious on this one… Where do you view healers as being imbalanced in PvE? Obviously there are serious PvP disparities, but for PvE specifically, things seem pretty darn close to me in practice. Sorcs can certainly sustain a ton of output, and they have some great flexibility, but they lack some of the more potent specialized tools of merc and operative healers.

Edited December 9, 2015 by KeyboardNinja

[Transcendent]

Good post, I agree on some things. I think Arsenal will be changed soon (4.0.4?) as it's the only spec still left in the game with 30% crit bonuses. It's also a (poor) Merc, so maybe Bioware kept this higher for PVP purposes. If they knock the Arsenal crit bonus to 15%, all of a sudden the spec is towards the bottom of this list, maybe above Marksman and Fury/Rage.

 

I highly doubt that after all of this time with Arsenal (and some may say merc / mando in general), that BioWare have decided to be kind to them for the purpose of PvP. The developers hate this class so much that they refuse to acknowledge any and all issues with survivability in ranked pvp.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that they didn't have time to adjust it for the patch, and we'll see a heavier nerf incoming to the class overall.

 

Anyway, just a quick thanks to Bant and everyone involved in this guide, it's been exceptionally useful for 4.0.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Transcendent

[Powerinfusion]

thanks for the update bant.

 

Hear, hear. Although I've been critical of your work, without nearly the kind of mathematical background or understanding to be able to fully support my arguments, the sheer amount of time and energy you've spent contributing to the SWTOR community is astronomical and deserves top praise.

 

Now what was that whole multiplicative thing again, making hawkeye crystals and overkill augs inherently inferior under any and all circumstances, regardless of DR? j/k. Sort of.