Optimal Stats For All 24 Disciplines, KOTFE Edition

[Magsel]

To clarify Joefjr's question a bit:

He's prob using his full 224 dps set from lets say jugg dps on his Merc dps which means he's getting all the 224 mastery, crit, accuracy and power, but NOT the setbonus.

And ofcourse only the head, chest, gloves, belt, legs, boots and bracers.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Magsel

[Britharen]

To clarify Joefjr's question a bit:

He's prob using his full 224 dps set from lets say jugg dps on his Merc dps which means he's getting all the 224 mastery, crit, accuracy and power, but NOT the setbonus.

And ofcourse only the head, chest, gloves, belt, legs, boots and bracers.

 

Putting it yet another way; does the dps/heal boost from the set bonus overcome the difference in stats from 224 to 216 armoring, mods, and enhancements. Now my comment--

 

There are a few problems with this question.

1. The 224 gear is supposedly optimized for one spec and is being used on another. Unless the difference is more than all the set bonus boosts, one would have to find 36 answers to your question. [n(n+1)/2; n=8 (It should be n=18+n=3 but so many of the specs are close to 5.5 crit : 4 alac that I am arbitrarily choosing to just use ACs)]

2. Many set boni affect rotations through lower cds and energy costs, by sacrificing the correct set bonus you are in essence learning a different rotation and the most important thing in getting good numbers is knowing your class.

3. Because of the prevalence of Mk-2 drops and 220 token drops gained on your main(the 224) you should have more than enough mods and enhancements to gear your second with 216 armorings and low endurance 220 mods and enhancements)

 

Now a newb at theory-crafting will try to answer the question even with the problems listed without recalculating everything with Bant's method.--

 

Stat budget (Master, Power, Crit, Acc, & Alacrity) of 224 gear is 11087 and 10232 for 216. This is an increase of 855 or an 8.36% increase and translates to on average 474 more dps or a 7.81% increase. However, you have to remove the bonus that comes from the non-legacied items--

 

73 stats from the earpiece, two implants, MH, and OH and 8 from each relic for a total of 381.

Subtract that from the 855 increase and you get 474. I do not know what the correct denominator should be, but using the full stat budget, 474 is an increase of 4.63%. (I know mh and oh can be legacied, but they should not be used to make this determination because if the class can use it it should and if it can't, it won't matter)

(Actually a more precise method would be to find the stat increase the other way. So 73*5+28=393 or 3.84%, I'll ignore this however, since I thought about it after writing the post, but it would only strengthen my case.)

Next, I'll guesstimate the avg increase in dps from the increased stats to 4% because the stat budget increase is not a 1:1 dps increase and Relic and Force/tech power should not be included.

Without knowing or researching the actual set boni increases. I will use the dev's stated goal (I know risky) of a 5% increase.

 

In summary, 5% and correct rotation > 4%.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Britharen
added the alternate method.

[Mikniff]

this line

 

"1433 Critical (5xE, 7xA, 2xC) | 1351 Alacrity (5xE, 7xA) | 0 Accuracy"

 

 

what does the 5xE, 7xA and 2xC mean?

 

i'm assuming 5 enhancements, 7 augments, 2 crystals. but if that is true then how can there be 10 enhancements ? when you add in the alacrity 5xE

[eartharioch]

this line

 

"1433 Critical (5xE, 7xA, 2xC) | 1351 Alacrity (5xE, 7xA) | 0 Accuracy"

 

 

what does the 5xE, 7xA and 2xC mean?

 

i'm assuming 5 enhancements, 7 augments, 2 crystals. but if that is true then how can there be 10 enhancements ? when you add in the alacrity 5xE

 

Earpieces and Implants count as "gear with enhancements"...they aren't customizable, but the stat totals (including tertiary stat) are the same (for the same item level and optimization).

[foueddyf]

I'm a bit confused regarding Tank relic choices on the High HP builds.

Now I definitely agree on the Reactive Warding relic, but the other listed is Focused Retribution.

 

Is that a typo and OP meant Fortunate Redoubt? Or is it really Focused Retribution, if so, can you please explain why?

[Magsel]

I'm a bit confused regarding Tank relic choices on the High HP builds.

Now I definitely agree on the Reactive Warding relic, but the other listed is Focused Retribution.

 

Is that a typo and OP meant Fortunate Redoubt? Or is it really Focused Retribution, if so, can you please explain why?

 

It's not a typo, it's the Focused Retribution because of the high endurance stats on that relic.

You don't want/need the Fortunate Redoubt because you allready have a lot of defense stats in your overall gear. It's like a virus, it's in ear, implants, mods, enhancements.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Magsel

[foueddyf]

It's not a typo, it's the Focused Retribution because of the high endurance stats on that relic.

You don't want/need the Fortunate Redoubt because you allready have a lot of defense stats in your overall gear. It's like a virus, it's in ear, implants, mods, enhancements.

 

I forgot that dps relics have endurance in them and not the tank ones.

Thanks for clarifying

[Ulfrik_Wulfgar]

What does DtPS mean, please? I assume HPS is Hit Points?

[Joefjr]

What does DtPS mean, please? I assume HPS is Hit Points?

 

Damage Taken Per Second=DTPS

 

Heals Per Second=HPS

 

Hit Points=HP or HP'S

[Ulfrik_Wulfgar]

Ignore, misread. Edited January 6, 2016 by Ulfrik_Wulfgar

[minitus]

But why focused retribution and not Serendipitous Assault isn't Ap better than mastery? or is it irrelevant which Dmg relic just for the endurance?

[Gardimuer]

But why focused retribution and not Serendipitous Assault isn't Ap better than mastery? or is it irrelevant which Dmg relic just for the endurance?

 

Maybe I missed out on some theory crafting re: relics, but I thought as per this post Mastery relics were only better than Power relics if the user has enough free Crit in their rotation or Crit Rating in their gear to cause an auto Crit when the relic procs. For tank spec and gear that would not be the case.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Gardimuer

[Joefjr]

A few questions about the TK/Ling calculations...

 

How is Mental Alacrity/Polarity Shift handled in regards to Tremors/Conduction?

 

How is Telekinetic Momentum/Forked lighting handled?

 

How is Flowing Force/Chaos Nexus handled?

[Overmind]

So defense, power and mastery augs are practically useless ?

[dipstik]

Maybe I missed out on some theory crafting re: relics, but I thought as per this post Mastery relics were only better than Power relics if the user has enough free Crit in their rotation or Crit Rating in their gear to cause an auto Crit when the relic procs. For tank spec and gear that would not be the case.

 

if you play with I14 and K14 on the spreadsheet (test page) i am seeing mastery output 1 more dps than power. i only checked for annihilation though.

 

both: 6841

pow: 6700

mastery: 6701

 

also, mastery relic has an internal cooldown affected by alacrity while power does not.

 

for jugg tank i am seeing power relic as 2 dps higher. 3465 vs. 3463.

same for sins: 2946 vs 2944

and for pt tanks: 2758 vs 2756

 

lol... totally missed that the numbers were already there (I18:L20):

Jug sin Powertech

Mastery 3546 3016 2826

Power 3548 3018 2827

 

So defense, power and mastery augs are practically useless ?

pretty much

Edited January 7, 2016 by dipstik

[Goblin_Lackey]

But why focused retribution and not Serendipitous Assault isn't Ap better than mastery? or is it irrelevant which Dmg relic just for the endurance?

 

For every non-Tank class, the Mastery Proc Relic will always provide a larger boost than Power Proc Relic. This is likely due to the higher percentage Critical Damage and Alacrity due to gear and that the Serendipitous Assault Relic does not have its ICD reduced by alacrity.

 

That the Focused Retribution was the stronger relic has been true since my earliest calculation, so when the tanks were basically forced to take a dps relic, I assigned the relic I felt was stronger. I didn't bother checking to see if power was better for tanks because I was not trying to increase the Tank DPS, I was only trying to add Endurance.

 

With that being said; the difference is very small and for all intents and purposes they are identical. (2 DPS difference)

 

 

And thanks to Dipstik for answering this question already (and spotting me as I was checking the tank DPS)

[Goblin_Lackey]

A few questions about the TK/Ling calculations...

As a note, I am just going to use Imperial terms for my own ease of typing.

I also changed the order of your questions for clarity.

 

How is Telekinetic Momentum/Forked lighting handled?

 

For each ability that can be "forked" (Lightning Strike, Chain Lighting, Lighting Flash,Crushing Darkness,Thundering Blast), I created a version that had a usage rate that was linked to the original ability but was divided by 25% (4x increased time). Since SWTOR considers these moves to be seperate abilities from the original, I was able to find their StandardHealthMin and Max along with their coefficient.

 

Usage Rate = Average Time Between Ability "Activation"

 

How is Mental Alacrity/Polarity Shift handled in regards to Tremors/Conduction?

I gave Polarity Shift a modified Cooldown with the following calculation:

 

[Cooldown of Polarity Shift] =

( 120s - 15s[Chaos Nexus] - 15s[4 set] )

/ (1 + 1/[usage rate of Forked Thundering Blast] + 1/[usage rate of Forked Crushing Darkness] + 1/[usage rate of Forked Lightning Flash + 1/[usage rate of Forked Chain Lighting] + 1/[usage rate of Forked Lighting Bolt])

~= 70.9s

 

This is derived from this equation:

[Cooldown] = 90s - sum( [Cooldown] / [usage Rate] )

[Cooldown] = 90s - [Cooldown] * sum( 1 / [usage Rate] )

[Cooldown] + [Cooldown] * sum( 1 / [usage Rate] ) = 90s

[Cooldown] * (1 + sum( 1 / [usage Rate] ) = 90s

[Cooldown] = 90s / (1 + sum( 1 / [usage Rate] )

 

 

How is Flowing Force/Chaos Nexus handled?

 

Since all of the calculations so far were done in a spreadsheet, Chaos Nexus represented an issue. If I knew cooldown of polarity shift then it would be easy because I can simulate the 50% chance during Polarity Shift by using the following:

 

[uptime of Polarity Shift] = 15s / [Cooldown of Polarity Shift]

[Chance of "Forked"] = 25% * ( 1 - [uptime of Polarity Shift] ) + ( 25% + 25% ) * [uptime of Polarity Shift]

or very simply:

[Chance of "Forked"] = 25% * ( 1 + [uptime of Polarity Shift] )

 

With this I could potentially modify the usage rate of the forked abilities. But I could not tie the cooldown of Polarity Shift directly into the the usage rate because this is spreadsheet based and it would introduce a circulate reference (Polarity shift cooldown is based on the usage rate of ability that is also based on Polarity Shift)

 

To get around this, I used an approximation of the cooldown at 70s (pre-alacrity) used only to calculated Forked Lightning. This guess is very close to the resultant cooldown of Polarity Shift at ~70.9s.

 

 

Special Note: While writing this I found an error in my handling of Chaos Nexus. I accidentally applied it to the forked Darkness abilities which had increased their usage rate. This change represents a 45 DPS loss from my previous estimate.

 

 

Does this answer your questions for Lightning?

[Gardimuer]

For every non-Tank class, the Mastery Proc Relic will always provide a larger boost than Power Proc Relic. This is likely due to the higher percentage Critical Damage and Alacrity due to gear and that the Serendipitous Assault Relic does not have its ICD reduced by alacrity.

 

That the Focused Retribution was the stronger relic has been true since my earliest calculation, so when the tanks were basically forced to take a dps relic, I assigned the relic I felt was stronger. I didn't bother checking to see if power was better for tanks because I was not trying to increase the Tank DPS, I was only trying to add Endurance.

 

With that being said; the difference is very small and for all intents and purposes they are identical. (2 DPS difference)

 

 

And thanks to Dipstik for answering this question already (and spotting me as I was checking the tank DPS)

 

Aside from tank DPS considerations, wouldn't the Power relic also be marginally better for Juggernauts due to Sonic Barrier, which is based on the Force Healing stat? Mastery gives .14 to bonus healing per point of stat, whereas Power gives .17. Sonic Barrier cannot benefit from the crit added by Mastery, so Power would be more effective. This might also be true for the Dark Charge proc heals for Assassin tanks during Overcharge Saber.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Gardimuer

[FerkWork]

I'm a bit confused regarding Tank relic choices on the High HP builds.

Now I definitely agree on the Reactive Warding relic, but the other listed is Focused Retribution.

 

Is that a typo and OP meant Fortunate Redoubt? Or is it really Focused Retribution, if so, can you please explain why?

 

Tank relics don't have HP. DPS Relics do thus why high HP builds called for using a DPS relic for extra HP.

Edited January 8, 2016 by FerkWork

[Ardarell_Solo]

Tank relics don't have HP. DPS Relics do thus why high HP builds called for using a DPS relic for extra HP.

 

I'm more comfortable with tanking relics even in an HP-build.

 

So: How would you have to change around stats if you used Fortunate Redoubt and Shield Amplification (Defense and Shield/Absorb-proc)?

 

Or does it generally make no sense to use them since available stats put us too close to the DR stat budget of Defense/Shield/Absorb already?

[dipstik]

I'm more comfortable with tanking relics even in an HP-build.

 

So: How would you have to change around stats if you used Fortunate Redoubt and Shield Amplification (Defense and Shield/Absorb-proc)?

 

Or does it generally make no sense to use them since available stats put us too close to the DR stat budget of Defense/Shield/Absorb already?

 

typically you would reduce the amount of stat the relic contributes slightly. you should be using a warding relic along with the absorb relic for sins and shrouded/absorb relic for pt and jugg. the defense relic is only good for juggs and sins for very high melee/ranged damage ratio fights.

[Joefjr]

As a note, I am just going to use Imperial terms for my own ease of typing.

I also changed the order of your questions for clarity.

 

 

 

For each ability that can be "forked" (Lightning Strike, Chain Lighting, Lighting Flash,Crushing Darkness,Thundering Blast), I created a version that had a usage rate that was linked to the original ability but was divided by 25% (4x increased time). Since SWTOR considers these moves to be seperate abilities from the original, I was able to find their StandardHealthMin and Max along with their coefficient.

 

Usage Rate = Average Time Between Ability "Activation"

 

 

I gave Polarity Shift a modified Cooldown with the following calculation:

 

[Cooldown of Polarity Shift] =

( 120s - 15s[Chaos Nexus] - 15s[4 set] )

/ (1 + 1/[usage rate of Forked Thundering Blast] + 1/[usage rate of Forked Crushing Darkness] + 1/[usage rate of Forked Lightning Flash + 1/[usage rate of Forked Chain Lighting] + 1/[usage rate of Forked Lighting Bolt])

~= 70.9s

 

This is derived from this equation:

[Cooldown] = 90s - sum( [Cooldown] / [usage Rate] )

[Cooldown] = 90s - [Cooldown] * sum( 1 / [usage Rate] )

[Cooldown] + [Cooldown] * sum( 1 / [usage Rate] ) = 90s

[Cooldown] * (1 + sum( 1 / [usage Rate] ) = 90s

[Cooldown] = 90s / (1 + sum( 1 / [usage Rate] )

 

 

 

 

Since all of the calculations so far were done in a spreadsheet, Chaos Nexus represented an issue. If I knew cooldown of polarity shift then it would be easy because I can simulate the 50% chance during Polarity Shift by using the following:

 

[uptime of Polarity Shift] = 15s / [Cooldown of Polarity Shift]

[Chance of "Forked"] = 25% * ( 1 - [uptime of Polarity Shift] ) + ( 25% + 25% ) * [uptime of Polarity Shift]

or very simply:

[Chance of "Forked"] = 25% * ( 1 + [uptime of Polarity Shift] )

 

With this I could potentially modify the usage rate of the forked abilities. But I could not tie the cooldown of Polarity Shift directly into the the usage rate because this is spreadsheet based and it would introduce a circulate reference (Polarity shift cooldown is based on the usage rate of ability that is also based on Polarity Shift)

 

To get around this, I used an approximation of the cooldown at 70s (pre-alacrity) used only to calculated Forked Lightning. This guess is very close to the resultant cooldown of Polarity Shift at ~70.9s.

 

 

Special Note: While writing this I found an error in my handling of Chaos Nexus. I accidentally applied it to the forked Darkness abilities which had increased their usage rate. This change represents a 45 DPS loss from my previous estimate.

 

 

Does this answer your questions for Lightning?

 

Yes it does tyvm, that sucks about the dps loss from your estimates.

[Petemachine]

Hey everyone,

 

since I started playing SW:TOR some weeks ago after a huge break, I was struggleing to find the right balance for my infiltration DD-shadow. Your thread did help me a lot, so first of all: Thank you very much.

 

Ever since, I was aiming for the 216 Storymode-gear-stats, which are these:

 

Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration

6000 DPS @ 49.1 APM | 6071 Endurance | 4969 Mastery | 2639 Power

1128 Critical (4xE, 6xA, 2xC) | 815 Alacrity (2xE, 7xA) | 681 Accuracy (4xE, 1xA)

 

My problem is: Even though I now use the exact amouth of Es, As and Cs, which results in pretty much the stats that I was aiming for (got a little more, since I have 2 220 items by now), I have too much Endurance (about 400), too much mastery (about 200), while there is a huge lack in power (about 900).

 

I am confused. I really am. Since I followed the "instructions" and critical/alacrity/accuracy are in the right position ceteris paribus, I have no idea where I went wrong. I'd really appreciate a hint for what I might have missed.

 

Best regards!

[Joefjr]

Hey everyone,

 

since I started playing SW:TOR some weeks ago after a huge break, I was struggleing to find the right balance for my infiltration DD-shadow. Your thread did help me a lot, so first of all: Thank you very much.

 

Ever since, I was aiming for the 216 Storymode-gear-stats, which are these:

 

Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration

6000 DPS @ 49.1 APM | 6071 Endurance | 4969 Mastery | 2639 Power

1128 Critical (4xE, 6xA, 2xC) | 815 Alacrity (2xE, 7xA) | 681 Accuracy (4xE, 1xA)

 

My problem is: Even though I now use the exact amouth of Es, As and Cs, which results in pretty much the stats that I was aiming for (got a little more, since I have 2 220 items by now), I have too much Endurance (about 400), too much mastery (about 200), while there is a huge lack in power (about 900).

 

I am confused. I really am. Since I followed the "instructions" and critical/alacrity/accuracy are in the right position ceteris paribus, I have no idea where I went wrong. I'd really appreciate a hint for what I might have missed.

 

Best regards!

 

Those stats are based around having full MK-1 gear aka Unassembled token gear, or MK-2 which is crafted from RE MK-1 Implant/Ear wise. Sounds like you got some MK-4 which is high Endurnace low Power crystal vendor stuff.

[Petemachine]

Those stats are based around having full MK-1 gear aka Unassembled token gear, or MK-2 which is crafted from RE MK-1 Implant/Ear wise. Sounds like you got some MK-4 which is high Endurnace low Power crystal vendor stuff.

 

That's right, the equipment I got so far is entirely purchased at the crystal vendor.

So what you are saying is, that there is a difference in the balance of endurance vs. power between the modifications (?) of crystal-vendor-gear and operation-drops?