Customer support about equipment removal

[JDiablos]

Sure I'll admit that I did not want to come out as the caller as I wanted to keep this anonymously. The call itself was meant to show that it was not good service provided by the customer support. Neither did I post the video. Someone else posted it. I just happened to see it at the right time. When Eric replied, I figured as much as to stand out as I was the one who called and answer for myself.

 

I do not care if you feel amused or not. I still sleep good every evening.

 

 

EDIT: Post above proves that I am right and that I am not the only one reconsidering my subscription here.

 

It wasn't great customer service. But he did keep taking your call after you cursed at him. He even tried to give you some ways you could get gear like grinding heroic for the cache's. I think his main problem was he lacked a certain professionalism, but for myself I'd rather get a customer service rep like that guy, who actually plays the game (and clearly enjoys it) and tries to be cool with you and friendly rather than detached. He also become defensive when you yelled at him, which he probably shouldn't have, he should have hung up. His defending the game seemed to piss you off even more and then it became kind of a circular argument.

 

Was he wrong for baiting you? Probably. Were you wrong for cursing at a minor functionary who clearly couldn't help you and wasn't responsible for the change? Probably.

 

I am sorry they took your gear vendors away. I'm more in that guys camp in that it really doesn't affect me personally, but I get why you're frustrated. This is a reasonable complaint, but you're making it poorly.

[Sinapus]

Two universal truths about MMOs:

 

1: Any aspect of the game can change and given enough time, most things will.

 

2: Any change will trigger intense complaints.

 

Therefore, the people working on the game expect that *someone* will complain about anything and everything they do. They quickly learn how to continue leading a normal life anyway.

 

3. Any change will be taken as a personal affront, as if Bioware/EA had board meetings discussing how much they can do to tick off a certain customer personally.

 

4. Snide remarks denigrating Bioware/EA will be made and then complaints by the same people will be made about how things are toxic when people respond to the snideness in kind.

[MrBorsh]

It wasn't great customer service. But he did keep taking your call after you cursed at him. He even tried to give you some ways you could get gear like grinding heroic for the cache's. I think his main problem was he lacked a certain professionalism, but for myself I'd rather get a customer service rep like that guy, who actually plays the game (and clearly enjoys it) and tries to be cool with you and friendly rather than detached. He also become defensive when you yelled at him, which he probably shouldn't have, he should have hung up. His defending the game seemed to piss you off even more and then it became kind of a circular argument.

 

Was he wrong for baiting you? Probably. Were you wrong for cursing at a minor functionary who clearly couldn't help you and wasn't responsible for the change? Probably.

 

I am sorry they took your gear vendors away. I'm more in that guys camp in that it really doesn't affect me personally, but I get why you're frustrated. This is a reasonable complaint, but you're making it poorly.

 

I already replied to Musco saying it wasn't justified for me to yell. It would not have been right to hang up on me either, because that would just have made me even more pissed off and I'd probably have ended my sub that evening. What he could have said was like he did in the end and direct me directly towards someone who works with this.

 

The reason for me calling Customer Support was because there are some rare cases where the developers are seeing those posts(even though that the CS Agent claimed that there's a team which follows all the posts on the forums and writes these suggestions down, which I do not believe. I am not so naive).

 

I will tell you what I would have said. Instead of defending the case of BioWare, trying to justify this, he should rather have replied:

- "I fully understand that you're feeling this way, I'd honestly feel that way too. But I can give you this email where you can direct these questions and complainments to and we can cross our fingers and hope for the best that it will be fixed".

 

.. If he replied that, then I'd have gone silent in a good way feeling there is still hope and eventually continue my subscription. Instead this CS Agent decided to toss gasoline on the fire.

[GoldenHornet]

Hey folks,

 

For the question at hand about why equipment was removed from various vendors, this is due primarily to stat changes. With the release of Fallen Empire, we essentially made that gear obsolete due to the new stat configurations and formulas. This meant the best option was to remove those items. Obviously, this raises the main concern of the support call which is the appearances of those armor sets.

 

The dev team informs us that virtually all of the core armor appearances previously on those vendors can still be located throughout the game. The majority of the old armor sets can be found via Crafting rewards, Missions, and Heroic Mission rewards. Now, there may be some variants of these core armor sets which are no longer available, but we’ll adjust that over time and slowly re-add pieces. If there are specific armor sets that can no longer be found, send the information to the Community Team and we’ll pass it along.

 

Taking a bite out of the people who can help with getting you back into the game, helping you restore missing items or characters, and addressing any billing issues, really isn’t a good use of your time, or theirs. As a general note, if you guys have feedback or questions about design decisions or development philosophy, come to the forums and raise it here. Going to Customer Support is not the correct place for that (and we will ask CS agents to direct you appropriately).

 

Thank you all for your understanding and hope that clears up any confusion on the issue.

 

-eric

 

That's great, but where can I now buy the M-500 Elite Stealth Enforcer pistol? The best looking gun in the game and only available from the vendors you just removed.

Edited October 24, 2015 by GoldenHornet
Spelling

[Clarian]

"virtually all of the core armor appearances previously on those vendors can still be located throughout the game" just doesn't cut it. Just because there are items in the game which use the same model doesn't mean you can achieve the same or even similar appearance. Dyes don't do the job right. This is partly because of dye selection and partly because dyes bug out or don't function at all in many instances as illustrated in the example above. Also, sometimes there are features/textures on a particular piece that the dyes can't recreate. For example, you can dye the tactical trooper cartel market armor all day and it'll never look like TH-15A since it doesn't have the Republic insignia or the Havoc badge.

 

Please just put the stuff back in.

Very good points...

[Sinapus]

It wasn't great customer service. But he did keep taking your call after you cursed at him. He even tried to give you some ways you could get gear like grinding heroic for the cache's. I think his main problem was he lacked a certain professionalism, but for myself I'd rather get a customer service rep like that guy, who actually plays the game (and clearly enjoys it) and tries to be cool with you and friendly rather than detached. He also become defensive when you yelled at him, which he probably shouldn't have, he should have hung up. His defending the game seemed to piss you off even more and then it became kind of a circular argument.

 

One reason why I prefer to work internal help desk: Most of the places I've worked we could warn and then hang up on customers being abusive/using foul language. Then we'd log the incident and the customer's manager would be contacted and they'd have a discussion.

 

Though losing your cool and yelling at a customer would get you punished/disciplined, so it's even.

[pegasussgc]

I would also like to see many of the vendors returned, or at least a clearer path to getting this gear. Although I am happy about the alliance supply crates, or whatever they are called, dropping some of this gear as a legacy bound version.

 

That being said, the attitude shown in this thread is reprehensible and I most certainly do not agree with the OP's actions. I think the devs deserve to be shown some respect for this expansion which includes many QoL improvements. I'm afraid the actions of the OP will encourage the devs and community managers to be less active on the forums.

[Teladis]

I see little qualifying this modality. Admittedly, some complainants have generally been quite shallow (OP himself seems to have misinterpreted the role of customer service as an avenue to vent), but what you've posted is similarly bereft of investment. No argument officially put forward has addressed how weird this choice was, let alone the fact there was no reasonable indication to expect it. This reads as an inappropriate drive-by. Am I right to assume this?

 

Not really, Here is the thing.

 

Changes happen, Like or hate them. I don't think this is a big deal, or a reason to be upset about it. If it bothers you that is fine. Yet, how people are acting about it is just silly. It is a change, not good or bad. I see through most of the anger and stuff people are posting.

 

People will adjust to the changes.That is the nature of a mmo.

[MrBorsh]

I would also like to see many of the vendors returned, or at least a clearer path to getting this gear. Although I am happy about the alliance supply crates, or whatever they are called, dropping some of this gear as a legacy bound version.

 

That being said, the attitude shown in this thread is reprehensible and I most certainly do not agree with the OP's actions. I think the devs deserve to be shown some respect for this expansion which includes many QoL improvements. I'm afraid the actions of the OP will encourage the devs and community managers to be less active on the forums.

 

Those are changes they could be transparent about. There's a reason people are pissed off about it. If they were more transparent about it, then it wouldn't have been such a huge deal now. The rest of the 4.0 upgrades are real good. I am really thinking that BioWare is walking this game into the right path by doing what they have done.

 

That being said, it still was not necessary to remove the equipment vendors. As the argument from BioWare is "We want to make the gameplay more difficult, that is why we removed them", then they could have pulled all the gear out of the equipment instead of removing it.

[pegasussgc]

I agree they could have been more transparent and communicated better.

[Machinder]

One of the main problems with the removal of the gear is that nothing was implemented to replace all that inventory that is purchasable with basic comms/crystals. Now you have all these missions like Heroics that reward basics, and nothing except a few mods and companion gifts to buy for levels 1 thru 55. Lots of players are capped on basics, and with nothing to buy, there is no reason to do anything with those toons.

[MrBorsh]

One of the main problems with the removal of the gear is that nothing was implemented to replace all that inventory that is purchasable with basic comms/crystals. Now you have all these missions like Heroics that reward basics, and nothing except a few mods and companion gifts to buy for levels 1 thru 55. Lots of players are capped on basics, and with nothing to buy, there is no reason to do anything with those toons.

 

Exactly. Another point which I as well brought up during the CS call. You do not feel your character being unique anymore due to appearance.

Edited October 24, 2015 by MrBorsh

[Fordbird]

I think that this change, while horribly relayed to the players, could actually be a good thing IF ALL the armors sold at the vendors were available through gameplay. I see it as a potential way to recirculate credits to casual players that would be able to sell their "junk" non-moddable or unwanted items to others looking for a certain look via the GTN. As previously stated however, most items are BOP or the exact match is currently unavailable. While this change doesn't effect me personally, I am pretty disappointed with many of the other changes that came bundled with this xpac and I can certainly understand the frustration felt by many regarding the lack of a "back and forth" between players and the community team.

[KyaniteD]

If there are specific armor sets that can no longer be found, send the information to the Community Team and we’ll pass it along.

 

How does that work? Should we write a PM or start a new thread to collect all the stuff we want reintroduced?

 

How do we even know stuff is missing?

 

I relied on these gear items to be available readily when I want them, now I'm supposed to wait 6 months to see if it maybe drops somewhere and when I have the feeling it's missing wait another 6 months for it to be added to some loot tables and then wait another 6 months for it to drop on any of my chars? Years compared to the 5 minutes it took to go to the vendor and pick up what I wanted?

 

Are you guys even aware of catalogs like this?

 

So much of it is already no longer available, and now you removed another two or three dozen in one go, without notification. (Although I remember you specifically telling people that you guys will (try) to give us a heads-up when thigns are removed. Which is part of what angers people here, too.)

Edited October 24, 2015 by KyaniteD

[MasterSpatula]

Well, at least they've finally acknowledged they did it. Now, if only they'd acknowledge what incredibly poor judgment it showed to do so.

[Mubrak]

"We didn't want to do additional work, search for scraps yourselves, and pay us while you do it you whores" is what I get out of that.

 

Either that or he is "managing" the community:

"customer service is now handled by EA. Please don't bother EA with this, let's just pretend that those vendors never existed, just don't involve EA, they might send an internal auditor if they ever find out that the community is unhappy."

Edited October 24, 2015 by Mubrak

[Zoserium]

bin dun?

http://i.imgur.com/QrlynLy.jpg

[Deluxe_]

Hey folks,

 

For the question at hand about why equipment was removed from various vendors, this is due primarily to stat changes. With the release of Fallen Empire, we essentially made that gear obsolete due to the new stat configurations and formulas. This meant the best option was to remove those items.

 

If the stats of the gear were the problem, then just remove all the mods from them and sell the empty orange shells. In this day and age nobody bought that comms vendor gear for the stats but for the looks.

[kharathos]

There may be some variants of these core armor sets which are no longer available, but we’ll adjust that over time and slowly re-add pieces.

 

In other words, coming to a future cartel pack near you for us at Bioware to get more money from for stuff previously in the game which we took out so we could reskin and make money off once more just like past armor sets (Rakata etc).

 

Taking a bite out of the people who can help with getting you back into the game, helping you restore missing items or characters, and addressing any billing issues, really isn’t a good use of your time, or theirs.

 

Yes because heaven forbid we take time away from these giants of epic Customer Service who send incorrect templates time and time again or ignore the actual issue at hand logged in tickets to reply with something totally unrelated and claim that is a solution. One recent example is my account having gotten the Wolf of Rishi title before I moved servers and then losing it during the transfer only to be told by some muppet in CS that it could not be restored. But wait, my wife also had the same problem but IT'S A MIRACLE!!!! Her CS rep somehow did the impossible and gave her title back. But how is this possible Eric?? The muppet I got for my ticket said it was impossible.

 

As a general note, if you guys have feedback or questions about design decisions or development philosophy, come to the forums and raise it here. Going to Customer Support is not the correct place for that (and we will ask CS agents to direct you appropriately).

 

Oh Eric you kill me. Are you STILL pretending to care about the community you so obviously despise? The only time we ever hear from you is on topics YOU choose to respond to. Plenty of threads created with probably 99% of them going unanswered or ignored by the Community team or hell anyone from Bioware ranging from questions about the game, the expansion, post expansion or issues being reported yet you and your glorious Customer service team keep telling us to post on the forums so we can be ignored????? Tell me again how you and Bioware still pretend to listen to your Customer base. Always gives me a good laugh when you do. After all you guys were so hopeless in dealing with the Customer service section of the forums, it had to go to EA to handle and take care of. This whole SWTOR forum is proof you don't so if you are so keen to delete things both in game and out, why not get rid of the proof that you don't care about your player base and delete this WHOLE forum!! Let's start over with the forums to go with 4.0!!

Edited October 24, 2015 by kharathos

[kharathos]

If the stats of the gear were the problem, then just remove all the mods from them and sell the empty orange shells. In this day and age nobody bought that comms vendor gear for the stats but for the looks.

 

QUIET YOU!!!!! That is too logical for Bioware to handle!!

 

Besides those missing sets will be back. Just in a future cartel pack!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

[shippper]

its f...ng EA baby

[Loranae]

Just below a model of removed armor droped from an Alliance crat :

 

http://www.zoopsie.com/download/swtor 2015-10-24 05-30-50-92_cr.jpg

But why bind to legacy ? i keep getting those kind and simply vendor them because i have absolutely no use when i know people who would really appreciate that i could give them (i did not say sold them).

 

Could you perhaps make a change on that ?

[PavSalco]

If the stats of the gear were the problem, then just remove all the mods from them and sell the empty orange shells. In this day and age nobody bought that comms vendor gear for the stats but for the looks.

 

That's what I'm thinking. This would also help newcomers with getting shells for their mods. Newcomers often skip the first booth with that level 8 equipment vendor and they are confused. They often ask where to get armors because they don't know that one equipment vendor even exists. The equipment vendors at EACH booth, as their name suggested, were a good source of armors for newcomers. It was a natural progress to be able to buy cheap equipment for Basic Comms that looked better and better with each 10 levels. The equipment vendors level 10-50 should come back with the adaptive gear.

[KyaniteD]

Just below a model of removed armor droped from an Alliance crat :

 

http://www.zoopsie.com/download/swtor 2015-10-24 05-30-50-92_cr.jpg

But why bind to legacy ? i keep getting those kind and simply vendor them because i have absolutely no use when i know people who would really appreciate that i could give them (i did not say sold them).

 

Could you perhaps make a change on that ?

 

100% agree. I don't need any more legacy bound gear, all it does at this point is clogging up my storage space. Making it BoE would make it easier for those who seek it to get it (in a timely manner), while those who have it have less reason to hoard it until they may want it in the far distant future on any of their characters, because they know it can be re-obtained.

Edited October 24, 2015 by KyaniteD

[ValidAvailable]

Just below a model of removed armor droped from an Alliance crate :

 

Plus stuff in Alliance crates does zero good to people who aren't running KOTFE (aren't high enough level, have previous stuff they want to finish first, didn't buy the expac, etc) and so are SOL. I know they want to bad their numbers and tell their bosses that the player base is all over KOTFE, but moving most of the drops there to try and push us, particularly when the leveling areas are the meat of this particular mmo, thats just no bueno.