Introducing the Alliance System

[InabaSensei]

Bioware, could you please open up all weapon types for all companions now? You've standardized abilities and animations anyhow and weapons are purely cosmetical. Instead you've nerfed the amount of weapon types companions can use, which is bad. Many of us who had them use certain weapon types for roleplay/aesthetic reasons to match the character (for example, I loved to use regular single-bladed lightsabers on my Kira Carsens, Nadya Grells, Jaesa Wilsaams instead of the double bladed "Sith lightsabers" for my light side characters - and now I can't do so anymore which ruins my immersion). Other changes make no sense at all, worst of all is Corso Riggs no longer being able to use his iconic "Torchy" blaster pistol - the retrieval of which is an integral part of the class story - because he suddenly can't use pistols anymore. Or Aric Jorgan no longer being able to use the Assault Cannon he's been using forever. There are more. It just doesn't make sense.

Please at least revert it so companions can use all of the weapon types they were able to use before 4.0 or, even better, grant all companions the ability to use any weapon type for more customization choices. Thank you!

 

I agree. In fact I assumed that since gear was no longer gear that all weapons would be equipable. I thought the outfit designer was going to apply to companions as well. Shouldn't we have options for three different outfits/weapons? heal/tank/ranged, it seems logical and doable.

 

Now I hear that Lana and god knows who else are not customizable? Feels like you are Elminstering us: "oh, cool

new companion." bioware: "uh, no that is OUR character, don't try and do things with it"

 

I hear that my ship is gone? I don't know what that means, but I wish there was a way to tell bioware that I will not be pressing that button. I will not go to the other side. Not with any of my existing characters, I might make a scout character to see what is going on over there, but that's it. I want them to know that unless this is fixed I will not touch the content even though I have paid for it. They made it, I paid for it, but I just don't want it now that I look at it, and I just don't care.

 

On my Sith Warrior, I have got Jaesa and Vette to look the way I want, I would like to kick Quinn and Pierce off the ship and replace them but not at the cost of losing the entire crew and the ship.

[ReverendAnderson]

"Sadly, the Companions of low level characters with massive Presence bonuses from their legacies will no longer be hilariously overpowered"

If that's supposed to be true, you guys have a bug to fix. Because level 19 T7 is soloing every encounter. I've got health in the mid 3,000s. T7 is over close to 9,000. He I basically followed him through solo Esseles.

[coremar]

Please forget the classic conversation thing next time. It is way too outdated and non immersive. And it muted my character! It is not character centric in any way (maybe 20 years ago), quite a contrary and there is really absolutely no need for more options than what we already have(3)... It forced me to stop playing as soon as I saw it. In my opinion it is really terrible... Your cinematic storytelling is completely dumped by this...

 

I must pretty much disagree with everything you said about it:

 

These conversations are characterized by their more character-centric nature, both in terms of storyline and cinematography.

I think it is exact opposite. My character is ignored now if he/she can't talk(it is like she/he is not even there), storyline is more chaotic thanks to this and cinematography? there is NONE in comparison with original SWTOR conversations!

Edited October 22, 2015 by coremar

[Phenruss]

Good and bad, with the good being really quite good, and the bad being really very terrible.

 

Removing Companion Usage Barriers: Awesome. Something I've wanted since launch. It always bothered me that I was forced to use a specific companion because of build, instead of who I wanted to run around with.

 

Companion Gear Purely Aesthetic: Also awesome. Way better to be able to make them look how you want, and way easier to maintain balance from your side. Very good change.

 

Arbitrarily limiting these purely aesthetic companion weapons, often in ways that totally contradict lore: Terrible. Zero legitimate reason to need to remove blaster pistols from Corso and others, or limiting some of the 'padawans' to only be able to use double-bladed lightsabers. Immersion breaking, goes against your 'aesthetic only' plan, and simply makes companions feel less unique. More choices = good. Arbitrarily removing preexisting choices = bad. People have been using companions with certain weapons for years. Literally for years. Sure, change them if you are taking those weapons out of the game completely. But if you are not, expand their choice selection, don't remove it. Bad decision.

 

Influence Replacing "Affection": Good change, supports your "use the companion you want" plan. As long as it is done in a way that lets the User know what their decisions are doing. If building this influence, but constantly getting 'does not approve', is going to shut out romance options in the class stories, the User needs to know that. The actual number that influence now reaches seems unnecessarily high, and seems to simply be a grind addition and not a gameplay addition. If Users hitting end level are not getting close to hitting max influence (or if they would not be getting close to hitting it when hitting your future planned end level), then you cannot say you are doing it for balance or gameplay, it is 100% to support a grind. And in that regard, it seems like a painful, unpleasant one. Good change, but bad implementation regarding the actual math.

 

Influence increases Companion Power: tied up in the above answer - good in theory, seems questionably executed. The 'average' rate of influence gain for companions during the leveling experience should be keeping the companions feeling useful and competent throughout that leveling experience. A new User should not think their companion is useless. An experienced player should not think their companion is a God compared to themselves. With the current numbers used for the Influence plan, I do not think your math will support this kind of experiential arc.

 

New UI/Contacts Window: Whatever, seems like a good idea to support your current plans. Makes sense to me. Good change considering what you need.

 

Build an Alliance, Gain Contacts and Followers: Awesome, awesome idea in theory. I'm holding off on actually deciding as it seems very rough right now. It does not seem like you can effectively get your original companions back right now, which is a very bad idea, as the entire class story works to build a relationship with those characters, and it is jarring to rip them away, and will drive players AWAY from the content, not towards the content. Which is a very bad design decision.

 

Alliance Missions: In theory, good. Having missions that are not PVE, given the story-centric nature of the expansion, is a terrible idea, and again will drive Users away from the content. People saying 'you don't have to participate, just join and hide in the back' is basically saying 'do something you don't want to do, and then ruin it for the players that DO want to play it'. Lose-lose. Double down on the bad design decision, basically. Not only will this annoy the Users that have to do it, you are now also setting up scenarios where Users will start annoying each other, simply because they need to click something over.

 

Classic Conversation Presentation: Terrible. Beyond terrible. Goes against what the User has been experiencing through hundreds of hours of gameplay. Adds literally nothing, as other BioWare games make it obvious you can fit more than three voice choices into a voiced conversation system. It is not true that the system allows you to give a much wider array of choices and potential outcomes, there is nothing about the old system that would not allow that, given a slight UI tweak. This is a massive, jarring step backwards, goes against immersion, goes against the flow of the regular game, and would be dealbreaking if it was not such a tiny part of the overall experience. "We want you to really feel immersed in this story, to feel like you are living in Star Wars...so we will take your voice away from time to time..." No, that does not follow, it does not support your premise. You are going to get a lot of negative backlash over this one, I think. It is going to really be jarring to Users, and going to really feel like it does not belong in a current gen game.

 

New Flashpoint: Fine. New expansion, you expect it to include a new flashpoint. Variety in gameplay is good. Being able to consume the content as a solo player is good. Re-using existing planets seems like a cashflow driven decision and not a compelling story-driven decision, but that is most likely exactly what it is, so in that sense I suppose it's a decent way of dealing with that reality.

 

 

 

With the current business model, it is obvious that you need Users to be running multiple characters through the game, and that you want these Users to care about their characters, and want them to feel unique and different (as that fuels the need to buy cartel items). As it seems like you are taking 8 stories and merging them into 1 main story moving forward, I see it simplifying your work by a huge factor, but I wonder how unique that story is going to feel when someone is running through it for the 10th time. You are saying choices matter, which is awesome, but if, after 10 runs through the story, the User starts to feel like "hey, my choices don't matter, it simply comes down to pushing one of these coloured buttons..." you could end up driving Users away from the content. Again, not what you are trying to do. So it sounds like you are taking the right approach - story-centric content that makes the User feel like they are getting more of what they got from the class stories (the biggest selling point of the game). It just needs to be handled in a way that makes it feel like those choices really do matter, as your business model demands Users experiencing the content repeatedly, and that will really clearly illuminate any hand-waving regarding true choice. When the game first launched, everyone loved the story as well. It wasn't until they were running a third or fourth character through that they realized how mind-numbing and 'same' it all felt. Which you have seemed to identify with pushing so many of the 'same, filler' stories out into 'exploration'. I hope you haven't made the same mistake here.

[StarSquirrel]

Classic Conversation Presentation: Terrible. Beyond terrible. Goes against what the User has been experiencing through hundreds of hours of gameplay. Adds literally nothing, as other BioWare games make it obvious you can fit more than three voice choices into a voiced conversation system. It is not true that the system allows you to give a much wider array of choices and potential outcomes, there is nothing about the old system that would not allow that, given a slight UI tweak. This is a massive, jarring step backwards, goes against immersion, goes against the flow of the regular game, and would be dealbreaking if it was not such a tiny part of the overall experience. "We want you to really feel immersed in this story, to feel like you are living in Star Wars...so we will take your voice away from time to time..." No, that does not follow, it does not support your premise. You are going to get a lot of negative backlash over this one, I think. It is going to really be jarring to Users, and going to really feel like it does not belong in a current gen game.

 

I don't think this point can be stressed enough. Bioware should have realized the moment this idea came up how spectacularly bad it would turn out. You expressed it very well, it honestly makes the game less fun, draining our enjoyment of the story experience. I've taken to merely skipping whole sections of Alliance story just to get through those boring, tedious, soulless convos faster.

 

Could we at least get a Dev to come and admit that this system was a terrible idea and promise that it'll never happen again? I mean, I really want my voice back but I could at least tolerate it if I knew it would never happen again.

 

Seriously BW, way to go backwards in a hurry.

Edited October 22, 2015 by StarSquirrel

[DalrisThane]

Please forget the classic conversation thing next time.

 

Totally agree.

 

Heck, if I could, I'd take away the devs' AND upper managers' (lets not forget them) cars, and replace them with horses.

 

Total classic feel... honest...

Edited October 22, 2015 by DalrisThane

[greyONE]

Classic Conversation Presentation: Terrible. Beyond terrible. Goes against what the User has been experiencing through hundreds of hours of gameplay. Adds literally nothing, as other BioWare games make it obvious you can fit more than three voice choices into a voiced conversation system. It is not true that the system allows you to give a much wider array of choices and potential outcomes, there is nothing about the old system that would not allow that, given a slight UI tweak. This is a massive, jarring step backwards, goes against immersion, goes against the flow of the regular game, and would be dealbreaking if it was not such a tiny part of the overall experience. "We want you to really feel immersed in this story, to feel like you are living in Star Wars...so we will take your voice away from time to time..." No, that does not follow, it does not support your premise. You are going to get a lot of negative backlash over this one, I think. It is going to really be jarring to Users, and going to really feel like it does not belong in a current gen game.

 

Couldn't agree more with this. If I wanted to play KoTOR (which i liked) i would go and play it. But I prefer SWTOR for several reasons with it's fully voiced conversations standing at the top. If you Bioware want to include more conversation options -> do it Mass Effect style and voice them. Everthing else (especially the silent and stiff KoTOR protagonist) is immersion breaking. Please either fix it or don't do it again.

[-Calypso]

YOU GUYS! YOOOOO GUYS! Hey look. I understand why you guys had to keep a lid on all of this, but from what I am seeing, you guys are doing an awesome job! NOW SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

[OwnerJord]

So from what I've experienced, Alliance System is somewhat familiar to Garrisons in Warlords of Draenor for World of Warcraft? (For those that play both these MMO's, I'd be eager to find out if you agree to this or not. In a mature fashion of course).

 

That's what I feel with the Alliance System, and I love it. I also very much enjoy the classical conversation layout you've given to us, I would love to see more of it in the future. But yeah, this system is fantastic, and looks like a time-sink, which is great for me!

[LMCM]

I love this new expansion it has so much of that KOTOR feel about it but the one thing that really bugs/irritates/annoys me is when in some conversations the Player Character does not have a voice which I personally think would improve the story of each conversation/ mission if ALL conversations were Voiced.

[JRCOBRA]

Unsubscribing after the mess this expansion threw at me yesterday causing me to spend almost 2 hours trying to un **** everything on ONE character then I go to talk to the Hutt and I get a dumb mute player character and ugly as hell letterbox.

[Sarfux]

I actually LOVE the new look of the conversations but I'm torn between it because our character just stands there silent. This whole game our character has been talking but now nothing.

 

But on the other hand it goes with the game more and we have more options what we can say back. It's definitely looks very snazzy and I approve of it. But the whole game we have had our characters talking when we replied now suddenly they do not. BUT we have more options and the cinematics look great with the bars. and I loved kotor/kotor 2 style and in a way love this.

 

It's just odd I think the initial not seeing our characters talking. I'll force myself to adapt, but I still think it should be fully voiced. It would be 100 percent PERFECT if we had kotor style convo, with the more options, with our character talking. But in a way, I can imagine what my character would sound like. Let's see

[Wulfebane]

Got two questions about the Alliance system. It says cross-class, but is it still limited to Faction? Like, would my Jedi Consular be able to befriend Mako or Khem Val, etc? And has anything been mentioned about same-sex options for romances?

[coremar]

Got two questions about the Alliance system. It says cross-class, but is it still limited to Faction? Like, would my Jedi Consular be able to befriend Mako or Khem Val, etc? And has anything been mentioned about same-sex options for romances?

 

I can't help you to answer it, because I stopped playing as soon as I saw "new" conversations system...

 

edit:

oops I thought i'm in different Thread, don't mind me then

Edited October 22, 2015 by coremar

[idnewton]

I actually LOVE the new look of the conversations but I'm torn between it because our character just stands there silent. This whole game our character has been talking but now nothing.

 

But on the other hand it goes with the game more and we have more options what we can say back. It's definitely looks very snazzy and I approve of it. But the whole game we have had our characters talking when we replied now suddenly they do not. BUT we have more options and the cinematics look great with the bars. and I loved kotor/kotor 2 style and in a way love this.

 

It's just odd I think the initial not seeing our characters talking. I'll force myself to adapt, but I still think it should be fully voiced. It would be 100 percent PERFECT if we had kotor style convo, with the more options, with our character talking. But in a way, I can imagine what my character would sound like. Let's see

 

^ this post. My sentiments exactly.

[warstory]

this expansion is perfect expect for alliance conversation add in the voice from our characters if for budget reasons you are pulling the voice from this section of the game inorder to create that epic story experience i just had then i can live with it, as long as regular content like that is added. ( every 1-3 months )

[Amyc]

I want to go republic world wave to every pub player on my sith. Id be happy if they did

[JattaGin]

Now that I read this introduction to the alliance system, what I saw in the game this morning makes much more sense.

 

This system sounds quite nice to me and I am looking forward to playing around with it.

 

However, I have to disagree on the classic conversation system. I understand the reference to KotOR (same with the many, many references in KotFE to KotOR and the SW films, kudos for that), but I think that this is very confusing, especially for new players, since it looks completely different and feels like a completely different game. In some way I find it even immersion breaking.

 

I take a lot of screenshots in conversations and this classic layout is very unfriendly for that because of the big darkened areas. Would it not be possible to add this system to the UI editor?

 

I would like to

 

- center my answers

- shorten the width of the companion answers

- lighten up the colour at the top and bottom of the screen

 

And most important: Full voice over, that was one of the major things for Swtor. I'm gonna be honest here: I even play the german version for quite a while, because the german voice actor of the female trooper is soooo hot to my ears. It was bad enough that some of her lines in KotFE chapters were spoken by someone else (what happened there?), but now she is not even saying anything anymore?

 

And I also only see her back in these conversations? I understand that this is much easier and cheaper to code, but let me tell you what I like the most in KotFE so far: the awesome facial expressions of my chars. I usually keep a distance between me and my chars, but the animations were so great that I couldn't keep up that distance.

 

I hope that you will adjust these mentioned parts. Otherwise, as I said, I think this alliance system is pretty good.

[Transcendent]

Let's see

 

You're welcome to it.

[Fevee]

I'd like to see the ability to craft my own companions. There's already combat companions and the ability to toggle between every battle role, now just let us design their face/body type/everything we have when creating our own characters. Let us name them and dictate what their main weapon of choice is. Then boom, stats are self-determined, anyways. So we dress them up how we please and go out and tackle the galaxy.

[Costello]

I don't know if this thread is being read by the devs or a Q&A complied but if it is can you please explain how much of an affect in the story the alliance system will have.

 

I've completed every heroic and I don't believe my companion's influence was affected by any of them. Some where long and one on Makeb hasn't had a mechanic changed making it a pain. And through this I don't believe my companions influence was changed at all.

 

I have completed all the star forget missions on solo and heroic and this offered a little inflence.

 

I have handed in thousands of gifts, and possibly hundreds supplies and yet none of the alliance heads seem to have taken note. I've completed all the alerts bar one which can't be completed and yet it appears to have changed nothing.

 

Yes I have more companions to call on but I can't see why I'd need to I'm far better off focusing on 6 to max them out for crafting. And yes there are nice perks on the heroic star forge missions.

 

So from this the grind to complete this (if by complete we mean max influence) will be massive, months and millions of credits/coms/missions. I am not even envisaging doing it on multiple toons a few crafting companions yes but outside of that not in a million years so I will be able to see for myself after the fact the level of change but that is a bit late.

 

So will this massive investment influence the story in an equally massive way. I.e. Mass Effect style or Dragon Age Inquisition. Or will the most fully armed and operational alliance be the exact same place as one I completely ignore cause its an alt and I just want to see the story from the point of view of someone that picks every wrong decision.

 

I know people that are against the PvP aspect of one companion and I'm sure there will be other companions people wont like. i.e. if you do a gsf one where people that have never flown before have to play gsf and get ganked by gunships. Of course as a fleet admiral I'm rather hoping to murder that Bothan and find a Admiral Ranken to replace him and would be exempt having flown over 1000 missions. But for others if they find they spent 8 hours getting ganked and the companion never says a thing after they get them and is total useless they may feel that information was useful before the ganking took place.

[Glower]

Story character narrative lines in classic conversations are fully voiced as you have all come to expect. Player responses in classic conversations are presented as an open-ended list of response options, displayed in full (as opposed to in paraphrases), and are not voiced. The classic conversation format allows us to give you a much wider array of choices and potential outcomes, as well as more specific, complex, and subtle character reactions to your choices.

 

Blah-blah-blah!

 

Haven't seen it so far. Limited PC lines with looped "Story character" reactions. So basically same as fully voiced... but PC is silent and with static and boring camera.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Glower

[PaxBraneric]

+1 To revoicing our characters and doing away with the "classic" dialog options. I understand that KOTOR was great and you want to hearken back to that greatness, but this is not the way to do it.

 

I'll even understand if you come back and say "Look we don't have the money in the budget to bring back the voice actors right now, so if you want this you're going to have to fork over X dollars". I'll do it.

Edited October 23, 2015 by PaxBraneric

[TheSeventhJedi]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=844158&page=20

[Searren]

I get games change with new content, but come on now. Taking away the full voice over for the story seriously takes away from game content which was the basis for why I keep playing this game. I'm the person who escapes and replays the scenes to chuckle, frown, and generally enjoy toying with the voiced over character options and reactions from the NPCs. Not to mentioning leveling another character and having a very different feel from the first of the same quest line because one is snarky, one is evil, and one is a goody two shoe option. Just clicking a button and having my character say nothing gives the game a flat lined feel.