Level synch = death of SWTOR

[LegionAlpha]

This level sync is terrible to force on players.

 

Get rid of this garbage...

/signed

[Reno_Tarshil]

You're the one who appears to think it's some monumental task, not me. Even now you make it sound like it's beyond the realm of feasible.

 

How long?

 

It's a good thing we're not using the Hero Engine then huh? We're using a custom Bioware engine that they designed from an incomplete alpha of the Hero Engine.

 

And lets be honest here...using the term "easy" there, didn't mean I thought it was a simple task, I was quite obviously talking about an idea that would make both sides happy...it was easy to find a way to please both parties.

 

Easy is the issue. If were easy to appease everyone, it would already have been announced. There's just stuff we don't know why.

[DarthDymond]

"Its just a. XXXXXXX" drives me insane. I have the right to project and determine emotional value whomever, whatever and whenever I wish. If I find TOR to be of greater emotional value than sports, religion, other people...well it is a fact. Feelings by nature are not driven by logic, trying to rationalize relative value in the scope of existence is a logic-driven argument in a problem that is emotionally driven.

 

People try to bring this up when I become visibly...tense whenever Disney's fake universe and their reboot decision is discussed. Star Wars is pretty much...50% of my reality, by choice. It consumes much thought and a large portion of my heart. Whether other people approve or understand...I couldn't care less. Just don't tell me my feelings are invalid because Star Wars is just a XXX.

Okay, it's certainly your prerogative to go ahead and live your life that way, but don't be surprised when others find it to be so far outside the acceptable norms of the culture you live in that you are ridiculed for it or even potentially labeled mentally ill if it is severe enough.

 

Social standards are a real part of the human experience, and getting overly worked up over something that is 'just a game' is generally considered at least somewhat deviant behavior - so you can expect it to frequently be treated as such by other members of the community.

[TUXs]

Easy is the issue. If were easy to appease everyone, it would already have been announced. There's just stuff we don't know why.

It is easy. If it were optional, those who want it, can have it. Those who don't wouldn't need to. Those who want to force others to play a certain way can sulk since they have no right to dictate how other people need to play.

[Uruare]

The sad thing is, there's a very easy and happy medium Bioware could strike.

• make it optional

• make all Heroic missions require it for rewards

People would use it...they just wouldn't be forced to use it.

 

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

 

/thread

[azudelphi]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

 

/thread

Unless there is more about the system / systems we don't know about...

[Transcendent]

You all know that if they made this optional it would mean you would get ZERO rewards right? The entire point is to keep level 65's from one shotting and farming old content for the easy crystals/gear box that rewards items for your level.

 

Who says? You?

 

Actually, I'd like BioWare to get off their backsides and actually provide some information on the issue. It's been speculated back and forth now for about a week. You would THINK that on an issue as contentious as this, they would clarify their intentions on how the system would work if they decide to run with the idea.

 

I still think it's a terrible idea and that players should be given the option for level sync in all areas of the game.

 

I also still think that those players that want this system should be allowed to have it, and the rewards / caveats that go with it. Primarily for mentoring or simply playing with lower level friends, while gaining XP from it (or having a new challenge if that's their thing and how they want to have fun).

 

At no point am I saying that it should be forced on players though - especially considering how much time and money some of us have invested in this game on the premise of enjoying the style of gameplay and the fun we could have with it, while still earning rewards as they currently are for the content.

 

That isn't a selfish stance to take on the issue. Saying "you can't have rewards if you don't level sync" is a selfish attitude to take, and I'm willing to call you on being selfish. Same as for anyone else. If the way we currently play the game doesn't harm anyone else in the game or community, who are you to say we shouldn't be able to do that? A developer? No.

 

It's overdue that BioWare clarified level sync, both for flashpoints and operations (no the information that has been given so far is not close enough to letting players know if the option is still in there to run content as it currently is, for the rewards that it currently gives - minus new commendations or crystals), as well as for the potential for it to expand into open world environments.

 

BioWare? Where are these BLOGS?

[Reno_Tarshil]

It is easy. If it were optional, those who want it, can have it. Those who don't wouldn't need to. Those who want to force others to play a certain way can sulk since they have no right to dictate how other people need to play.

 

If it were easy to implement an optional system, it would be implemented is what I was saying. You and I do not know why it hasn't been implemented and can only speculate there's something else that prevents it from being easily implemented. That was the point I was trying to make.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Who says? You?

 

Actually, I'd like BioWare to get off their backsides and actually provide some information on the issue. It's been speculated back and forth now for about a week. You would THINK that on an issue as contentious as this, they would clarify their intentions on how the system would work if they decide to run with the idea.

 

I still think it's a terrible idea and that players should be given the option for level sync in all areas of the game.

 

I also still think that those players that want this system should be allowed to have it, and the rewards / caveats that go with it. Primarily for mentoring or simply playing with lower level friends, while gaining XP from it (or having a new challenge if that's their thing and how they want to have fun).

 

At no point am I saying that it should be forced on players though - especially considering how much time and money some of us have invested in this game on the premise of enjoying the style of gameplay and the fun we could have with it, while still earning rewards as they currently are for the content.

 

That isn't a selfish stance to take on the issue. Saying "you can't have rewards if you don't level sync" is a selfish attitude to take, and I'm willing to call you on being selfish. Same as for anyone else. If the way we currently play the game doesn't harm anyone else in the game or community, who are you to say we shouldn't be able to do that? A developer? No.

 

It's overdue that BioWare clarified level sync, both for flashpoints and operations (no the information that has been given so far is not close enough to letting players know if the option is still in there to run content as it currently is, for the rewards that it currently gives - minus new commendations or crystals), as well as for the potential for it to expand into open world environments.

 

BioWare? Where are these BLOGS?

 

It's Friday, I wouldn't expect an unscheduled blog till next week at the least.

[azudelphi]

It's Friday, I wouldn't expect an unscheduled blog till next week at the least.

To be fair, I actually am expecting some kind of blog before COB today; on some topic. Maybe not this particular one, but something discussion in the stream for sure...

[PavSalco]

Can't pick up those quests if you are not down leveled Or if you adjust the scaling (up or down) with those quests they are terminated.

 

Optional is very doable just based off bolster and that mechanic. Handling rewards would be simple enough as well.

That's a big leap of faith. The question is if they have the tools to do it. There is termination when we start KotFE. It removes all the story quests from our questlog but it's permanent. Can Bioware make it temporary for scaled quests? Can Bioware associate that termination with the presence of "the god buff" on our character?

 

I can only assume they planned/tried to make it optional but they either couldn't do it or it caused too much trouble and potential exploits. We don't know. What we know is that they had a strong reason to implement level-sync if they decided to develop it. They didn't make it to annoy you.

Edited October 2, 2015 by PavSalco

[Reno_Tarshil]

To be fair, I actually am expecting some kind of blog before COB today; on some topic. Maybe not this particular one, but something discussion in the stream for sure...

 

At the least I can expect something along the lines of Soon in regards to this. But not really anything, so I can be surprised when I see a new yellow post.

[TUXs]

If it were easy to implement an optional system, it would be implemented is what I was saying. You and I do not know why it hasn't been implemented and can only speculate there's something else that prevents it from being easily implemented. That was the point I was trying to make.

I never tried to imply how hard/easy it would be to do, but there are plenty of very similar systems already in-game, that I have little doubt they could accomplish it. I bet they just never thought about it...they don't seem to give much thought beyond an idea to the ramifications of an idea.

[Tsillah]

You're the one who appears to think it's some monumental task, not me. Even now you make it sound like it's beyond the realm of feasible.

 

No, that's just your interpretation again. I do think it's impossible to do it right before the release of the expansion. Why? Because they've already allocated all their resources because this is crunching time for them. They simply wouldn't have the time for changes like this. They are way too busy finalising, testing, fixing bugs that crop up etc.

 

Also when they would have time for it and IF they wanted to do this at all, it's not just a matter of flipping a switch or just chaning two lines of code, which you are implying with a phrase like "very easy".

 

It's a good thing we're not using the Hero Engine then huh? We're using a custom Bioware engine that they designed from an incomplete alpha of the Hero Engine.

 

Whatever, I know they are using their own custom version and that's the point. It's not polished and they did this when they never built an MMO before. Not the wisest decision but it's a factor that can't be discounted.

 

And lets be honest here...using the term "easy" there, didn't mean I thought it was a simple task, I was quite obviously talking about an idea that would make both sides happy...it was easy to find a way to please both parties.

 

You said VERY EASY. Turn it any way you want. You made it sound like it would take virtually no effort at all.

 

I suggest you try something close to what you meant. I would suggest "relatively easy".

 

But if you really think that at this stage just before the release they would have resources to allocate to make changes like this, I personally think that's an unrealistic expectation.

[Quraswren]

So? You would have situations where players do a difficult quest while not synced, get to turn in, turn sync back on, complete it, and get rewards. That'd be horrible.

 

and thats why you tie the mission to down leveling. Easily solved.

 

Also this change means that for events like the Rakghoul Event, any player can play together. It means in OW PVP everyone is on a much closer playing field. Conquest Commanders and World Bosses are actually game inclusive activities.

 

With bolster they can already play togother as is. As far as OWPVP. Thats a joke and wishful thinking. That level playing field you discuss is almost non-existent because of skills. We hashed that out a number of pages ago.

 

It means that should they ever want to add a new questline to the game, they can do so on lower level planets. Imagine the possibilities if they made it where there were new dailies on old planets??? The possibilities are literally endless. Not every chapter of Star Wars has to have a new planet, many times in the movies, the main characters go back to say, Tatooine. Star Wars is not Star Wars if going back to a lower level planet means you're suddenly going to crush everyone. Those Imperial Soldiers on Hoth and Balmorra are the SAME FREAKING SOLDIERS, so therefore, they should be equally as skilled.

 

Optional they could still ad anything they wanted to the game. Using the system they have now that spawns mobs based on who hits it or they could tie it into the down level system and you have to have that debuff.

 

SW is still SW no matter where you go. Just like when Anakin went back and slaughtered those sand people. It was a no content. He didn't get turned into a padawan because he was back there.

 

those soldiers on Hoth and Balmorra are not the same and are clearly less experienced they my havoc squad. Kind of insulting to think they were even close.

 

However, should you return, it's not like you're suddenly a novice again, you still have the skills you've earned and the gear on top of it like set bonuses, etc (At least I presume), so you're still gaining in strength, it's just the enemies remain constant. It makes sense.

 

Sorry but keeping skills and losing all that power makes no sense other than to create a hurdle that doesn't really need to be there, no matter how easy the hurdle is to jump over. The enemies should never remain a threat all teh time because thats not in any way close to a true scenario. Sure there gun should shoot the same but they should be less accurate. My jedi battle master should easily block and dodge more. My commando is more experience and his power should be lowered because he stepped back on Ord mantell with a bunch of newbs.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Quraswren

[Transcendent]

It's Friday, I wouldn't expect an unscheduled blog till next week at the least.

 

It makes no sense for them to let the community implode on the issue further, when they could simply clarify when they intend to provide further information.

[RaiderMid]

That's a big leap of faith. The question is if they have the tools to do it. There is termination when we start KotFE. It removes all the story quests from our questlog but it's permanent. Can Bioware make it temporary for scaled quests? Can Bioware associate that termination with the presence of "the god buff" on our character?

 

I can only assume they planned/tried to make it optional but they either couldn't do it or it caused too much trouble and potential exploits. We don't know.

 

There is (was) some information out there suggesting that this was the case. Not going into any more detail about it though, rules and all.

Edited October 2, 2015 by RaiderMid

[Eanelinea]

If it were easy to implement an optional system, it would be implemented is what I was saying. You and I do not know why it hasn't been implemented and can only speculate there's something else that prevents it from being easily implemented. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

That's the point. If it's not easy to change it up, why the HELL even put it in in the first place? What, did they think everyone would welcome this with open arms no issues whatsoever?

 

As I've said before, having down scaling in the game is fine. Even we the ones ************ about it are for this. We ARE.

 

We just want an option to turn it off if we don't want it on, or turn it on if we'd like to redo old content as a lowbie.

 

It doesn't matter if I'm 65 and I still have my uber leet gear, all my abilities, etc.

 

If I click the heroic terminal on fleet, and get ported to the heroic, I CHOSE to be downgraded for that mission. This is fine. I can deal with it because I clicked it and knew I'd be deleveled.

 

But if I just set foot on lowbie planet x to grab something from said planet's vendor, or want to go grab something I forgot, suddenly I'm Miss Lowbie, my 65 abilities/gear aside and now I either have to fight trash mobs or agro things cause I got hit with lag, or some npc's pathing put them right next to me.

 

What if I skipped all the side quests and planet quests while I was leveling cause I was either doing 12xp or had already done/seen those quests for the 20th time? Maybe I want to go back, get them done asap and head out.

 

If I wanted to do LOW LEVEL QUESTS AS A LOW LEVEL, I would have done that **** when I was actually low level.

[LegionAlpha]

I think it is clear as the difference of night and day that level sync is not well received by the community... Copious amount of threads showing the distaste of it. So much so that the threads all had to be compiled into one thread. The one thread that is in support of the level sync, " level sync = revival of swtor" has 5-6 times less replies and support for it.

 

The question is why not implement this in a way to get feedback before actually putting it in game? A poll, pts, etc... Would have done the job, but it is interesting to see that bioware claims they are giving the community what we want, but it clearly isn't the majority they are listening to, or even their own community. Though this may be something they wanted to test and see how ppl react and if it is not well received they may get rid of it, it is quite obvious, the reaction is not positive.

 

Many questions still are uncertain about level sync such as:

GSI quest

Story missions requiring to go back to lower level planets

Bounty contracts

Events (Gree/Rak)

Etc.... The list goes on

 

How will level sync work with these in detail? All we were told is what it does in general, " you are scaled to the max level for that planet...", as stated in stream many many many times. But no details that actually needed to be addressed were addressed for whatever reason. The dodge method.

Edited October 2, 2015 by LegionAlpha

[Eanelinea]

That's a big leap of faith. The question is if they have the tools to do it. There is termination when we start KotFE. It removes all the story quests from our questlog but it's permanent. Can Bioware make it temporary for scaled quests? Can Bioware associate that termination with the presence of "the god buff" on our character?

 

I can only assume they planned/tried to make it optional but they either couldn't do it or it caused too much trouble and potential exploits. We don't know.

 

If it was such a hassle, they shouldn't have bothered in the first place.

[Tsillah]

The enemies should never remain a threat all teh time because thats not in any way close to a true scenario.

 

Hahaha, now you've really lost it. Levels make zero sense in a true scenario. In a true scenario you can be a black belt martial artists and some dumb *** with a gun can still kill you. That's a true scenario.

[DarthDymond]

If it was such a hassle, they shouldn't have bothered in the first place.

/disagree.

I absolutely want to see this be optional if at all possible, but if that is genuinely not feasible for some reason, then I think the mandatory level sync is better than no level sync.

 

Optional Level Sync > Mandatory Level Sync > No Level Sync

[Transcendent]

Hahaha, now you've really lost it. Levels make zero sense in a true scenario. In a true scenario you can be a black belt martial artists and some dumb *** with a gun can still kill you. That's a true scenario.

 

We're playing Star Wars..... hate to break it to everyone, but it isn't real

[Quraswren]

That's a big leap of faith.

Not really. Bolster goes up. Just have this work down. Oversimplification I know but systems are there that are already similar. I don't think it's a leap of faith to think they can reverse it.

 

The question is if they have the tools to do it. There is termination when we start KotFE. It removes all the story quests from our questlog but it's permanent. Can Bioware make it temporary for scaled quests? Can Bioware associate that termination with the presence of "the god buff" on our character?

 

Like I said, there are systems so close to this there isn't a reason why it's not plausible to have a down leveling system optional, still keep rewards where they need to be and allow gamers to choose.

 

I can only assume they planned/tried to make it optional but they either couldn't do it or it caused too much trouble and potential exploits. We don't know.

 

That I don't believe. They have ideas but they clearly do not think them out thoroughly. Just like 12X. That option wasn't there to start. I think player feedback drove that to happen well after the fact of them wanting to do 12X.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Quraswren

[Tsillah]

If it was such a hassle, they shouldn't have bothered in the first place.

 

That's all assuming that that's the issue. They might simply not want it to be optional. Maybe it's a new way of doing things that makes it easier for them to add new content in. Fewer resources needed for new content means more content is possible in the future.

 

Not saying this is what it is, but it could be something like that.