Please make level scaling optional in KotFE

[EnkiduNineEight]

If you're in a FP with me and you want something for the armor shell, rather than stats...

 

May I suggest you just speak up at the start and say, "hey, I'm here because I want some specific armor shells for the appearance and I'll be rolling need on them, I will PASS on everything else to be fair about it. If this is a problem, lets work it out now, I want to be fair.".

 

My reply to that would be, "thanks for saying something, need what you need, hope you get what you want."

 

If people talk to me, I'm amazingly accommodating to things. What upsets me is when people run off and randomly do stuff without talking at all.

 

To be honest, if I see someone "need" on what I personally consider to be "crap gear", then I raise an eyebrow. I honestly often don't think about the shell itself, since I wear exclusively CM armor on all my toons. If you remind me about the appearance factor, then I'm like, "oh right, people do that! ok, cool, thanks for saying something, go for it."

 

Note: The same applies for companion gear, if you actually need a useful drop for a companion, ask first... If we're in a HM 60 FP and 192 gear drops from the bonus boss that your companion REALLY can use, just say, "hey, my companion needs that, does anyone mind if I need it?" 99% of the time, my answer is "need away, have fun". I would only object if my toon itself directly needed that gear, otherwise it is all yours.

 

Communication!

 

 

Yes, I am aware of communication and use it. At the same time, I also understand where my communication/desired outcome can be an unnecessary burden to other players. I am also aware of multiple instances where I may have communicated and then some jerk chooses need just because they can. I'm also aware that, as has been mentioned, maybe the first boss drops the item, and I want to just keep smacking the first boss down until I get it.

 

The point, for me, is that this was not a necessary change in that there was no need to force a major change on the game that had no other effect.

 

It would have been far better to provide a new option to allow people more choices in what they were going to do, then to kill how the game has been working for 3.5 years and remove an option/choice entirely in favour of a less desirable system.

 

Frankly I am _all for_ scaling and would use it a lot when I have the time and inclination of playing with a group. Most of the time I'd likely not even be going for the loot, just the grouping up bit. So I think its a good addition and helpful especially for 'capped' play.

 

I just believe the option should still exist, just as FP's tha received heroic versions still had the option to run them normally.

 

And if anyone wants to bring up the 'intent' argument and say that it was not intended to ROFLSTOMP flashpoints you overleveled then why was it possible for anyone who outleveled an FP to still get the quest and complete it? Why was it possible that once you reached level barrier that enabled 'hard modes' you could still select the normal mode?

 

if they didn't intend for or want you to run this content while overlevled it would have been a simple level gate switch. You must be at least this tall but no more than this tall to ride this ride.

 

But they didn't gate things that way at all, and from the beginning you could run Eseles/Black Talon all you wanted forever because it was a great way to get social points.

[bluroq]

what a delicious thread!

[branmakmuffin]

what a delicious thread!

Tastes like teen spirit.

[Aries_cz]

where is this whole world level scaling thing coming from? From what I heard it was just flashpoints and ops. (altough seeing it in PVP wouldn't be bad either.)

 

Leaks from closed beta. The pictures of it has been since deleted (on BW request to image hosting site, probably). Links were all over Reddit

[LordTynell]

I just still believe it's going to have a completely different effect in reality than in their test bubble. Reminds me of those commercials that come out that internal think tanks applaud and then it gets released and they have to pull them immediately because they didn't think it all the way through.

[Aries_cz]

I just still believe it's going to have a completely different effect in reality than in their test bubble. Reminds me of those commercials that come out that internal think tanks applaud and then it gets released and they have to pull them immediately because they didn't think it all the way through.

 

If it was optional, it would be nice. a lot of people were calling for "mentoring" system for a long time now.

[TUXs]

its if it was optional it wouldnt work and it wouldnt be fair.

 

Why do you say that? If it was optional, I could opt out, anyone who wanted it could opt in...that's as fair as anything gets. But you're right...it probably wouldn't work because nobody (too few) would downscale...but what does that tell you about this boneheaded idea? I'll answer...it tells you that most people don't want it.

[Jedi_riches]

I wonder about the scaling, I have just had a thought, the Sith Warrior story has you travel at the end of chapter 1 to Hutta a 1-12 planet the end of chapter 1 comes when you are level 32+ so the quest you are running is actually level 32(ish).

 

So how does that work? it cant be the case that I have to run a level 32 quest scaled down to level 10? or is there different scales for each planet depending on your class?

Edited September 18, 2015 by Jedi_riches

[LydMekk]

I dread the consequences of this change.

[CloudCastle]

I would love to know, if this is true, what planets will be affected. Will it just be the leveling ones? What about Oricon and CZ-198? I could handle the leveling planets if I had to, but I don't think Tython/Korriban or any of the daily areas should be included. I have no desire to struggle through Oricon at level 55 all over again.

 

What would be frustrating about this change is that players would never get to run anything overleveled again. No more zipping through low level FP's, no more low level OPs, no more heroics, and now dailes and regular planetary mobs as well? It's too much. What about the accomplishment in moving beyond low level things? There wold be no sense of progress because now your level would be nothing more than a number.

Edited September 18, 2015 by CloudCastle

[Max_Killjoy]

I would love to know, if this is true, what planets will be affected. Will it just be the leveling ones? What about Oricon and CZ-198? I could handle the leveling planets if I had to, but I don't think Tython/Korriban or any of the daily areas should be included. I have no desire to struggle through Oricon at level 55 all over again.

 

What would be frustrating about this change is that players would never get to run anything overleveled again. No more zipping through low level FP's, no more low level OPs, no more heroics, and now dailes and regular planetary mobs as well? It's too much. What about the accomplishment in moving beyond low level things? There wold be no sense of progress because now your level would be nothing more than a number.

 

Indeed.

 

Why even have character levels and character progression at all, if your character's abilities are determined more by the area you're in and the content you're doing, than the actual stats on the character window in the game?

[Transcendent]

no sense of progress

 

I know, I can live without new content for months on end and keep myself amused currently by doing Achievements / run older content over-levelled for the fun of it. However scaling would simply remove that.

 

With no frequent content updates (non-story) that would be an unmitigated disaster for some of us.

[MisterBlackJack]

The band-aid approach of force scaling everything to cover for a lack of real content is just that, a band-aid.

 

For a sudden shift in approach towards catering to solo players, these changes do anything but encourage that. A dark counsel member powerful enough to absorb and control force ghosts shouldn't need help clearing out some revanite fools hiding in a temple on Dromund Kaas. A simple stern look should vaporize them.

 

People solo flashpoints and heroic quests now because they want to see the story on their own terms. Apparently that is a thought crime because they aren't "Playing the game as intended." Another small MMO that you may have heard of took the direction of telling players they weren't playing the game the way they wanted. The result was them losing half their subs in less than a year. Can you afford to have half your subs vanish Bioware?

 

I payed for two accounts, and they will not be re-activated for this schizophrenic like approach to content. If you are recycling this much now, how are you going to manage when you hap-haphazardly push out another level increase? "Hey everyone, you get to grind 5 more levels and re-augment everything all over again to kill Karagga some more!"

 

Here's my problem with all these arguments against the level scaling. You guys saying like it will be a burden to kill all the crazed people on the Dark Temple on Kaas is going to be the this difficult chore.

 

1. It was never difficult to defeat adds when you were at level let alone 2 levels over the planet level (if the leaks are to be believed)

 

2. You still have all your abilities from max level with all your cooldowns bonuses.

 

So this whole argument of it will be difficult to kill trash again on Kaas is ludicrous because it was never difficult to begin with before all your 65 abilities.

 

So you can't solo any of the world bosses anymore. GREAT! it means more people can form up and try to work on bringing them down as they were meant to be. It also opens the door for many cool scaling of loot and rewards for the older content. Maybe get people to explore parts of the planet they never thought of looking before. None of this is actually bad IMO

[Jeweledleah]

Here's my problem with all these arguments against the level scaling. You guys saying like it will be a burden to kill all the crazed people on the Dark Temple on Kaas is going to be the this difficult chore.

 

1. It was never difficult to defeat adds when you were at level let alone 2 levels over the planet level (if the leaks are to be believed)

 

2. You still have all your abilities from max level with all your cooldowns bonuses.

 

So this whole argument of it will be difficult to kill trash again on Kaas is ludicrous because it was never difficult to begin with before all your 65 abilities.

 

So you can't solo any of the world bosses anymore. GREAT! it means more people can form up and try to work on bringing them down as they were meant to be. It also opens the door for many cool scaling of loot and rewards for the older content. Maybe get people to explore parts of the planet they never thought of looking before. None of this is actually bad IMO

 

except while overleveled, i can just skip those adds outright. when at level - I cannot, i HAVE to slog through them. regadless of how fast they die, its STILL a slog.

 

and no, its not great that I cannot solo world bosses anymore. very few people group for them/bother to kill them even now, when they are much easier to down. what makes you think people will want to group for them when they are harder to kill? rewards? they would have to be some amazing rewards, preferably of the "everyone gets one" variety to convince people to bother.

[SprinklesXL]

This isn't a bad idea, and i actually enjoyed reading it.

[Faardor]

In some sort of useful rotation / priority list?

 

Yes. Altough in the end a rotation rarely is 100% the same a rotation in the end does involve the same steps and abilities. Id rather have a player who is messing about with his new abilities and passives than a lvl 50 who is missing a few steps.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Faardor

[Rhyltran]

Here's my problem with all these arguments against the level scaling. You guys saying like it will be a burden to kill all the crazed people on the Dark Temple on Kaas is going to be the this difficult chore.

 

1. It was never difficult to defeat adds when you were at level let alone 2 levels over the planet level (if the leaks are to be believed)

 

2. You still have all your abilities from max level with all your cooldowns bonuses.

 

So this whole argument of it will be difficult to kill trash again on Kaas is ludicrous because it was never difficult to begin with before all your 65 abilities.

 

So you can't solo any of the world bosses anymore. GREAT! it means more people can form up and try to work on bringing them down as they were meant to be. It also opens the door for many cool scaling of loot and rewards for the older content. Maybe get people to explore parts of the planet they never thought of looking before. None of this is actually bad IMO

 

1) No it wasn't difficult to kill them but here's the thing. Now we'll be forced to fight them. Overleveled, if we choose to fight at all, we drop one aoe and they all die. If not we can just run through them anyway. This makes it easier to do achievements or get to certain spots.

 

2) We do have all our abilities but again where's my "One hit kill all vastly inferior enemies" skill? I won't have any. Here's the thing. Those complaining DON'T WANT TO FIGHT THEM. We already past the planet. We don't want to do it again.

 

This whole argument isn't that it's difficult to kill trash. It's that we'll have to kill trash. It's also the ludicrous of the whole "I'm a member of the dark council but an initiate (lol) can put up a fight.

[BrintoSFJ]

Talking about datamined content on forums...forum mods must be sleeping with the fishes if they are not deleting posts like this...

[TravelersWay]

Here's my problem with all these arguments against the level scaling. You guys saying like it will be a burden to kill all the crazed people on the Dark Temple on Kaas is going to be the this difficult chore.

 

1. It was never difficult to defeat adds when you were at level let alone 2 levels over the planet level (if the leaks are to be believed)

 

2. You still have all your abilities from max level with all your cooldowns bonuses.

 

So this whole argument of it will be difficult to kill trash again on Kaas is ludicrous because it was never difficult to begin with before all your 65 abilities.

 

So you can't solo any of the world bosses anymore. GREAT! it means more people can form up and try to work on bringing them down as they were meant to be. It also opens the door for many cool scaling of loot and rewards for the older content. Maybe get people to explore parts of the planet they never thought of looking before. None of this is actually bad IMO

 

I'll add to what the others said above me by saying that when I don't have to be in game spamming LFG for WB on pretty much any planet and Global Chat for the two hours I am playing and still have to log out with getting nary a response, then maybe not being able to solo WBs would be a good thing. As it is, at this elder stage of the game, WBs are no longer content for a lot of people, so in order to get the achievements, one has to plan on soloing them. Heck, I don't even have enough Guild Members and Allies on at the same time any more to get everyone together to help.

 

Forced scaling, especially in the open world is a bad, bad idea.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'll add to what the others said above me by saying that when I don't have to be in game spamming LFG for WB on pretty much any planet and Global Chat for the two hours I am playing and still have to log out with getting nary a response, then maybe not being able to solo WBs would be a good thing. As it is, at this elder stage of the game, WBs are no longer content for a lot of people, so in order to get the achievements, one has to plan on soloing them. Heck, I don't even have enough Guild Members and Allies on at the same time any more to get everyone together to help.

 

Forced scaling, especially in the open world is a bad, bad idea.

 

There is absolutely nothing to redeem it, other than in the eyes of those who care way too much about what other people do with their time.

[Heat-Wave]

There is absolutely nothing to redeem it, other than in the eyes of those who care way too much about what other people do with their time.

 

^ Totally true...

 

Except, this whole bloody world is filled with people who care way too much about what other people do with their real life time...

 

So it sadly isn't anything new...

[branmakmuffin]

A dark counsel member powerful enough to absorb and control force ghosts shouldn't need help clearing out some revanite fools hiding in a temple on Dromund Kaas. A simple stern look should vaporize them.

Another person who does not understand the concept of levels.

[DalrisThane]

Except, this whole bloody world is filled with people who care way too much about what other people do with their real life time...

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I'd give examples, in my country, that particularly bug me, but it would derail everything...

 

Anyhow, speaking as a person that loves to "roflstomp" as someone so delightfully put it many pages back, I'm not keen on the changes, but oh well. I know that the scaling changes affect OPs (that I never do) and FPs according to

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/operations-and-flashpoints-fallen-empire

 

So be it.

 

I do hope that the rumour that this will also affect Heroics and Open World, is just that... rumours... We'll see in a month or so, either way...

[Leklor]

Another person who does not understand the concept of levels.

 

He's correct.

When around level 10-15, you never face more than apprentices when force users are concerned. Is it then logical that a character struggles equally against a disgraced acolyte in the Tombs of Korriban and against a war-trained Jedi Master on Illum?

Levels were always a poor way to represent power growth because they aren't very logical. But logical or not, they are part of the game. Taking their effect away via forced scaling makes levels even more meaningless and pointless.

[Rhyltran]

Another person who does not understand the concept of levels.

 

Levels are supposed to be a means of character progression. As you progress you're supposed to get new abilities while also feeling more powerful. That's the entire point of any level system. This goes all the way back to D&D. If we were playing D&D and you were a dungeon master then had a rule set up that a goblin leader is just as tough as a dragon deep in some forest.. I think you're going to lose your players. People want progression. Remove progression and people's interests drop.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Rhyltran