PvP is absolutely terrible and unbalanced.

[Bogezzus]

So I don't get why they don't keep it segmented by level bracket. PvP as it is now is far worse than it was in the beginning where they allowed level 50's to play against level 10's.

 

It's pretty much making me unsubscribe at this point.

 

I typically try to heal with my Operative, go in, start healing and all that jazz. Boom stun lock and hit by 4-9k damage repeatedly by 3-4 people while even on a damage spec I'm hitting for maybe 2k a hit.

 

How does this game even pair up matches, guessing it's just all completely BS and random?

[OMGitsCHARLIE]

TIL that if 3+ people focus fire me, I die.

[lavatsunami]

I hate being the one to say this, but sounds like a l2p issue.

 

Pvp variables:

 

1) first and most important...does my team suck? This is easily figure out by seeing where people go at the start, or if they get wrecked in the team fight, etc. (could also mean the other team is really good, but that's rarely the case). If your team is bad get ready to be on the defensive for the whole match.

 

2) what kind of class/specs are on the other team? The way you approach the fights will be different based on if they have a bunch of ranged vs a bunch of melee.

 

3) positioning. this will change drastically based on the above 2. positioning is everything for every class/spec, no matter what role you are playing. bad positioning will almost guarantee you get nuked every single time.

 

4) who is on your team? are there other heals? really strong dps? are there dps that are really trying to peel for you? you need to not only prioritize health pools but also the value of the players around you.

 

5) your own rotation and using ccs etc to counter the other team. amongst everything above that you are dynamically figuring out, you have your own rotation to think about and how to maximally play your class in the encounters you face.

 

That is pvp. its not for everyone, and people fall short in assessing these variables which leads to bads which leads to imbalance. Are there class/spec imbalance? sure. they will never match the imbalance of the individual players and their ability to continually assess these variables and make good decisions however.

[Thaladan]

operative heal srly? yes it's unbalanced..clearly strong. Edited August 26, 2015 by Thaladan

[LordKitana]

So I don't get why they don't keep it segmented by level bracket. PvP as it is now is far worse than it was in the beginning where they allowed level 50's to play against level 10's.

 

It's pretty much making me unsubscribe at this point.

 

I typically try to heal with my Operative, go in, start healing and all that jazz. Boom stun lock and hit by 4-9k damage repeatedly by 3-4 people while even on a damage spec I'm hitting for maybe 2k a hit.

 

How does this game even pair up matches, guessing it's just all completely BS and random?

 

i main an op heal /merc heal and sorc heal they are are amazing and i norm get 1 mil + this sounds like a l2p issue. Dont give up tho take baby steps keep practicing in this game as a healer your going to have to learn how to self peel most teammates in this game dont know how to peel for healers . So id say its important to get down losing behind pillars etc nd keepsing your hots up is num 1 for op healers or any healer really in gen and its all bout timing . So dont throw in the towel just yet . keep going youll get there !

[aerockyul]

Did you just recently get into the mid bracket?

 

Definitely more focusing in that bracket than what you see in low...and you as a healer should be focused most of the time if the other side is competent. You might get pugged with a good team that supports you...or you might be stuck with a bunch of bads that just recently jumped from the low bracket and didn't learn anything and are like deer caught in headlights or tunnel-visioning deathmatchers and you'll be responsible for your own survival at that point. Not much you can do in the latter situation except try to make sure you are following/healing the people that are actually trying to win the objectives. Those players are also more likely to support their healer.

[Couver]

PvP as it is now is far worse than it was in the beginning where they allowed level 50's to play against level 10's.

Nothing has ever been as bad as 50's in full Battlemaster, with access to Rakata stims/adrenals/medpacs, 2 shotting lower levels.

[Raansu]

Fill all your slots to get max expertise and stop being bad?

[foxmob]

So because you're a total *****ter at the game, its horrible and unbalanced? If you're hitting for 2k as a dps this is a clear Lrn2Play issue. OP is Mad Cuz Bad.

I do think the balance is very bad in 3.x. I can get on a tactics/ap in regs and feel like an absolute god. the better players playing in grps are still better and going to win, but I'm mowing ppl down left and right.

 

the fact of the matter in soloQ is that the VAST majority of healers are sorcs. they're far better soloQ healers than ops and mercs. I don't think this is a contestable issue, tbh.

 

I understand the theory that you cannot balance around solo (b/c it's not trinity) and regs (b/c also not trinity nor are the teams role balanced), but something really does need to be done with balance since those two formats account, conservatively, for 95% of the pvp in the game. please, if I'm off base here, explain how and why. I don't think this is simply anecdotal experience masquerading as universal fact.

Edited August 27, 2015 by foxmob

[Kaedusz]

even on a damage spec I'm hitting for maybe 2k a hit.

 

either a troll or a clear L2P issue.

[Raansu]

I do think the balance is very bad in 3.x. I can get on a tactics/ap in regs and feel like an absolute god. the better players playing in grps are still better and going to win, but I'm mowing ppl down left and right.

 

the fact of the matter in soloQ is that the VAST majority of healers are sorcs. they're far better soloQ healers than ops and mercs. I don't think this is a contestable issue, tbh.

 

I understand the theory that you cannot balance around solo (b/c it's not trinity) and regs (b/c also not trinity nor are the teams role balanced), but something really does need to be done with balance since those two formats account, conservatively, for 95% of the pvp in the game. please, if I'm off base here, explain how and why. I don't think this is simply anecdotal experience masquerading as universal fact.

 

Honestly the only way to make yolo work without forcing the trinity is to make guard/tank stance available only to tank specs and make off healing do 0 heals to party members. It will still be a crap shoot but skanking and off healing is about the biggest tipping point similar to the hybrid crap with skill trees before disciplines was introduced.

 

But this is inherently the problem with yolo. The "hybrid" classes typically have a leg up on the pure dps on top of having dominate CD's. Part of me just wants to say screw it and force the trinity. I'll wait the extra time for a balanced match. Hell I'll even queue as a tank.

[Xanas]

So I don't get why they don't keep it segmented by level bracket. PvP as it is now is far worse than it was in the beginning where they allowed level 50's to play against level 10's.

 

It's pretty much making me unsubscribe at this point.

 

I typically try to heal with my Operative, go in, start healing and all that jazz. Boom stun lock and hit by 4-9k damage repeatedly by 3-4 people while even on a damage spec I'm hitting for maybe 2k a hit.

 

How does this game even pair up matches, guessing it's just all completely BS and random?

 

You are complaining about lower level PvP right? At least I hope so...

[Icykill_]

So I don't get why they don't keep it segmented by level bracket. PvP as it is now is far worse than it was in the beginning where they allowed level 50's to play against level 10's.

 

It's pretty much making me unsubscribe at this point.

 

I typically try to heal with my Operative, go in, start healing and all that jazz. Boom stun lock and hit by 4-9k damage repeatedly by 3-4 people while even on a damage spec I'm hitting for maybe 2k a hit.

 

How does this game even pair up matches, guessing it's just all completely BS and random?

 

This argument has been made since 3.0 landed... I've always come down on the side that all lvl brackets are viable... Why??... Because it's more skill vs skill than lvl... This is because everyone gets bolstered correctly or close to it... People over lvl 55 actually start to lose some stats compared to a lvl 30...

From my own experience of lvling more Alts to 60 and only in pvp... I can confidently say the brackets are fine... I've lvld a Scoundrel, PT, Shadow, Jugg and now a Mara through all brackets (see my Mara feed back http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=832073 )

The biggest issue in all brackets at the moment are the bads playing... I don't just mean skill lvls... I mean people who don't play objectives (see thread on bads http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=829728 )

Of course skill comes into it too... Theoretically when you get higher up you should have mastered your class which should give you an advantage... But it won't against people who are already skilled enough at lvl 30... The other issue is 12x XP... So many people power lvling in pve and not getting enough pvp time, so they are not learning their classes properly in pvp... Then there are the people who advocate waiting till 50-55 to pvp because of this "perceived" inbalance your thread insinuates... These people have pretty much the worst skills in pvp (some exceptions)... They make this bracket even easier for lower lvls to global them...

Anyone who loves pvp like I do will mostly or only pvp to lvl... Therefore we spend lots more time learning our classes and their roles in pvp... This is how to get more skillful in pvp... Not power lvling... Not skipping to lvl 50+... Also having multiple classes helps as you know how to counter better...

So please don't go telling everyone how bad and unbalanced the brackets are... Go practice and improve your skills... Watch how others maybe countering you and learn from that... Ask more experienced players of your class how they do it... Because I can tell you they do it extremely well

[Raazmir]

But this is inherently the problem with yolo. The "hybrid" classes typically have a leg up on the pure dps on top of having dominate CD's. Part of me just wants to say screw it and force the trinity. I'll wait the extra time for a balanced match. Hell I'll even queue as a tank.

 

There are only 2 pure dps classes, sniper and marauder, neither of them are in worst place merc gets to hold that turd. The inherent problem is that a 4v4 format is going to exacerbate every small balance difference between the classes, making class selection a functional "tie breaker" once the skill of the participants rises above a certain level.

 

Bad format is bad.

[Technohic]

There are only 2 pure dps classes, sniper and marauder, neither of them are in worst place merc gets to hold that turd. The inherent problem is that a 4v4 format is going to exacerbate every small balance difference between the classes, making class selection a functional "tie breaker" once the skill of the participants rises above a certain level.

 

Bad format is bad.

 

Sniper and marauder have been pretty close to merc but not as bad, and marauder has become a little better as of late but what Raansu is talking about is true when you look at a merc compared to a sorc. Sorc off healing now is about as good as merc total healing pre-3.0 on a bodyguard, or can be. Mercs in DPS spec do not even come close with their healing ability. Ruffian scoundrel does a lot better than merc in off healing but still nowhere near sorc and hence why they are middle of the road, sorcs are at the very top and mercs are at the very bottom. Of course, the mobility and escape of the better 2 sure help a ton. Obviously as a scoundrel, you can swap out some off healing ability for what might be the best DCD in game by going scrapper.

 

DCDs, mobility and escapes also play a small part and thats probably why snipers are slightly ahead of mercs right now. They have more DCDs, but their damage ones only take them so far, its the anti-CC that lets them live long enough to use them.

 

Maras are more mobile now and probably why they have gotten better along with a valid escape and good DCDs.

 

Juggs are kind of in no mans land in being tough to kill with their DCDs but somewhat easy to avoid/kite.

 

Sins I think are as quietly descending as much as maras are ascending but are still quite good.

 

PT is just so fast and can set up the great burst but are squishy. They truly do take skill in YOLO to survive and get that burst off without the trinity but their weakness are completely absent when with a healer and tank making them deadly and not easy to kite and LOS away like you would a MM sniper.

[Vember]

If you think this pvp is bad, go play some pvp in Skyforge for a little while. You'll come back here with a whole new take on what "terrible and unbalanced" really is. SWTOR pvp is downright refreshing after playing that.

[jedcjedcjedc]

Sniper and marauder have been pretty close to merc but not as bad, and marauder has become a little better as of late but what Raansu is talking about is true when you look at a merc compared to a sorc. Sorc off healing now is about as good as merc total healing pre-3.0 on a bodyguard, or can be. Mercs in DPS spec do not even come close with their healing ability. Ruffian scoundrel does a lot better than merc in off healing but still nowhere near sorc and hence why they are middle of the road, sorcs are at the very top and mercs are at the very bottom. Of course, the mobility and escape of the better 2 sure help a ton. Obviously as a scoundrel, you can swap out some off healing ability for what might be the best DCD in game by going scrapper.

 

DCDs, mobility and escapes also play a small part and thats probably why snipers are slightly ahead of mercs right now. They have more DCDs, but their damage ones only take them so far, its the anti-CC that lets them live long enough to use them.

 

Maras are more mobile now and probably why they have gotten better along with a valid escape and good DCDs.

 

Juggs are kind of in no mans land in being tough to kill with their DCDs but somewhat easy to avoid/kite.

 

Sins I think are as quietly descending as much as maras are ascending but are still quite good.

 

PT is just so fast and can set up the great burst but are squishy. They truly do take skill in YOLO to survive and get that burst off without the trinity but their weakness are completely absent when with a healer and tank making them deadly and not easy to kite and LOS away like you would a MM sniper.

 

kolto probe baseline? As a party I'd take Op off-heals over Sorcs any day. To focus myself, I'd probably go with the sorc.

[Benets]

I hate being the one to say this, but sounds like a l2p issue.

 

Pvp variables:

 

1) first and most important...does my team suck? This is easily figure out by seeing where people go at the start, or if they get wrecked in the team fight, etc. (could also mean the other team is really good, but that's rarely the case). If your team is bad get ready to be on the defensive for the whole match.

 

2) what kind of class/specs are on the other team? The way you approach the fights will be different based on if they have a bunch of ranged vs a bunch of melee.

 

3) positioning. this will change drastically based on the above 2. positioning is everything for every class/spec, no matter what role you are playing. bad positioning will almost guarantee you get nuked every single time.

 

4) who is on your team? are there other heals? really strong dps? are there dps that are really trying to peel for you? you need to not only prioritize health pools but also the value of the players around you.

 

5) your own rotation and using ccs etc to counter the other team. amongst everything above that you are dynamically figuring out, you have your own rotation to think about and how to maximally play your class in the encounters you face.

 

That is pvp. its not for everyone, and people fall short in assessing these variables which leads to bads which leads to imbalance. Are there class/spec imbalance? sure. they will never match the imbalance of the individual players and their ability to continually assess these variables and make good decisions however.

 

some things is pretty stupid, like "positioning", this is crap.

you position and then anyone can easly force leap or pull you, who cant do that can increase speed and root.

 

On 'paper' is easy, but it isn't really true. SWtor pvp is crapiest of mmos, it's the product of retarded devs

[t-darko]

So I don't get why they don't keep it segmented by level bracket. PvP as it is now is far worse than it was in the beginning where they allowed level 50's to play against level 10's.

 

It's pretty much making me unsubscribe at this point.

 

I typically try to heal with my Operative, go in, start healing and all that jazz. Boom stun lock and hit by 4-9k damage repeatedly by 3-4 people while even on a damage spec I'm hitting for maybe 2k a hit.

 

How does this game even pair up matches, guessing it's just all completely BS and random?

 

So you're getting Focused as a Healer . . . ?

 

So ... Some people actually knows how to play . . . Yep must be a Balance issue, last I heard everyone Sucked, - Big Time!

[benficakungfu]

Reroll sorc/sage they are by far best heal atm..

[Icykill_]

So you're getting Focused as a Healer . . . ?

 

So ... Some people actually knows how to play . . . Yep must be a Balance issue, last I heard everyone Sucked, - Big Time!

 

Wait... You mean you focus healers first... Omg I never knew that... LoL (joke by the way)

At least there are some other people who know how to play...

[Savej]

Honestly the only way to make yolo work without forcing the trinity is to make guard/tank stance available only to tank specs and make off healing do 0 heals to party members. It will still be a crap shoot but skanking and off healing is about the biggest tipping point similar to the hybrid crap with skill trees before disciplines was introduced.

 

But this is inherently the problem with yolo. The "hybrid" classes typically have a leg up on the pure dps on top of having dominate CD's. Part of me just wants to say screw it and force the trinity. I'll wait the extra time for a balanced match. Hell I'll even queue as a tank.

 

Along those lines you would want to remove taunts from non-tank specs as well but I don't think the problem is that simple to fix - my sorc can put up big healing numbers just by healing himself. And I basically agree with the OP that PvP is the least fun it has ever been in this game (since 50s got their own bracket). But it would take a long time to comprehensively explain why or propose solutions. And suggesting fixes to complex problems here is a complete waste of time anyways.

[Benets]

SWTOR pvp is crap.

Bioware do not care

Eric Musco don't give a damn about it.

[foxmob]

Along those lines you would want to remove taunts from non-tank specs as well but I don't think the problem is that simple to fix - my sorc can put up big healing numbers just by healing himself. And I basically agree with the OP that PvP is the least fun it has ever been in this game (since 50s got their own bracket). But it would take a long time to comprehensively explain why or propose solutions. And suggesting fixes to complex problems here is a complete waste of time anyways.

 

I have to thoroughly disagree with you here. removing skank tanks isn't a be-all, end-all fix for yolo, but you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to acknowledge that it's something that should be done. and the reason it should be done is that it allows certain classes to be defacto tanks in matches where the opposing team has no such option. comparing that to having taunts or self heals is pretty ludicrous. I don't see what you're getting at there. they aren't remotely the same thing. the major advantage a tank brings to the table is guard and high hp pool. skanks can account for both of those things, but the matchmaking system cannot account for skanks.

[Savej]

I have to thoroughly disagree with you here. removing skank tanks isn't a be-all, end-all fix for yolo, but you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to acknowledge that it's something that should be done. and the reason it should be done is that it allows certain classes to be defacto tanks in matches where the opposing team has no such option. comparing that to having taunts or self heals is pretty ludicrous. I don't see what you're getting at there. they aren't remotely the same thing. the major advantage a tank brings to the table is guard and high hp pool. skanks can account for both of those things, but the matchmaking system cannot account for skanks.

 

I wasn't saying/arguing that it shouldn't be done, I wasn't comparing anything. I was only pointing out that the bigger problems aren't going to go away with quick/simple fixes (and the changes Raansu suggested should include removing taunts from non-tanks for the sake of completeness/consistency). Doing those things will improve pvp but I think the changes need to go deeper - balancing stealth, cc, cc immunities, aoe, burst, range, mitigation, mobility, self-heals, etc.. so that each AC has a distinct combination of those things that works without trying to make everyone equal at everything and without giving one class most of those things and others very little. Right now the arrangement of abilities seem almost random and some ACs are painfully lacking. Even without skank-tanking and off-heals, the 4dps-vs-4dps matchups will still heavily favor the 3 ACs everyone is complaining about.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Savej